The Restitution Of All Things A.K.A. Universalism

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FineLinen

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Rev.5:13 And every creature which is in heaven, and on the earth, and under the earth, and such as are on the sea, and all that are in them, heard I saying, Blessing, and honour, and glory, and power, be unto him that sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb for ever and ever.

This includes everyone in the universe, including the dead and demons:

Rev.5:13 And every creature which is in heaven, and on the earth, and under the earth, and such as are on the sea, and all that are in them, heard I saying, Blessing, and honour, and glory, and power, be unto him that sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb for ever and ever.

John speaks of "every creature" & to emphasize this again he repeats "and all that are in them":

Rev.5:13 And every creature which is in heaven, and on the earth, and under the earth, and such as are on the sea, and all that are in them, heard I saying, Blessing, and honour, and glory, and power, be unto him that sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb for ever and ever.

This worship (v.13) uses the same worshipful words as the redeemed of vs 9-10 use in v.12:

12 Saying with a loud voice, Worthy is the Lamb that was slain to receive power, and riches, and wisdom, and strength, and honour, and glory, and blessing.

All this being in the context of salvation - "the Lamb that was slain" (v.12 & 13).

Have you been decieved by your Bible translation?
 
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FineLinen

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"Everything of God finds its proper place in Him. Not only that, but all the broken and dislocated pieces of the universe - people and things, animals and atoms - get properly fixed and fit together in vibrant harmonies, all because of his death, his blood that poured down from the Cross."
 
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FineLinen

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With all earnestness our choice lies between accepting the victory of Christ or of evil, and between these alternatives only.

Escape from this dilemma there is none. It avails nothing to diminish, as many now teach, the number of the lost; or to assert that they will be finally annihilated. All such modifications leave quite untouched the central difficulty of the popular creed - the triumph of evil. Sin for ever present with its taint, even in a single instance, is sin triumphant. Sin, which God has been unable to remove (and has had no resource but to annihilate the sinner) is sin triumphant and death victorious.

Let Us Still Punish Forever

How strange, too, is the delusion, often advocated, that all real objections to the traditional creed are met, if the grosser forms of teaching it are abandoned. This means, I presume, "let us still punish for ever, though all chance of amendment is over. But do not shock the mass of men, do not mention a literal fire: that is to go too far; retain the agony, but be careful to apply the suffering to the highest part - to the spiritual nature. Rack the spirit with endless woe, and remorse; hand over to the devil for ever one formed in God's Image, one for whom the Son of God died; consign man's spirit to endless evil, it lasts only FOR EVER AND EVER! Who can be so unreasonable as to murmur?"

Men's minds must be deeply drugged by prejudice, and the power of reasoning partly paralyzed, when such pleas are advanced; or when they fancy that, by diminishing the area of damnation they elude all objections to endless evil. As though you could solve moral questions by process of arithmetic, or annul the devil's victory by diminishing the number of his victims. So long as one soul for whom Christ died remains in the devil's grip for ever, so long and so far, is the devil victor. Nothing can by a hair's breadth alter that fact.

-Christ Triumphant-
 
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FineLinen

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Romans 9:22 - What if God, although choosing to show his wrath and make his power known, bore with great patience the objects of his wrath—prepared for destruction?.

The Wrath Of God

The question=

What does the koine katartízō from katá mean?

The Answer=

To render i.e to fit, sound, complete.

To mend (what has been broken or rent) to repair.

To repair what has been broken or rent.

To complete.

To fit out, equip, put in order, arrange, adjust.

To fit or frame for one's self.

To prepare for one's self.

To strengthen, perfect, complete, make one what he ought to be.

To make one what he aught to be

Jesus Christ IS Reconciliation: He is Reconciliation for your sins & the sins of th WHOLE world!
 
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FineLinen

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No, Love Omnipotent isn't a magician. He's far more powerful than that. He's a miracle worker!

These many solar systems & billions of stars don't look like the work of an impotent god or one who will lose a war of the wills with weak little human beings:

"Everything of God finds its proper place in Him. Not only that, but all the broken and dislocated pieces of the universe - people and things, animals and atoms - get properly fixed and fit together in vibrant harmonies, all because of his death, his blood that poured down from the Cross."
 
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he-man

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Search= "eternal death"

Please modify your search and try again

Search "everlasting death"

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Search "everlasting punishment"

One entry found Matt. 25:46

“The word aidios (not aionios) was in universal use among the non-Christian Greek Jews of our Savior’s day, to convey the idea of eternal duration, and was used by them to teach endless punishment.

Jesus never allowed himself to use it in connection with punishment, nor did any of His disciples but one, and he but once, and then carefully and expressly limited its meaning. Can demonstration go further than this to show that Jesus carefully avoided the phraseology by which His contemporaries described the doctrine of endless punishment?

Jesus never adopted the language of His day on this subject. Their language was aidios timoria, endless torment. His language was aionion kolasin, age-lasting correction. They described unending ruin, He, discipline, resulting in reformation.”
Well, you missed the mark again:
Exodus 4:11 And the LORD said unto him, Who hath made man's mouth? or who maketh the dumb, or deaf, or the seeing, or the blind? have not I the LORD?

Luke 6:39 And he spake a parable unto them, Can the blind lead the blind? shall they not both fall into the ditch?

John 9:39 And Jesus said, For judgment I am come into this world, that they which see not might see; and that they which see might be made blind.

2 Corinthians 4:4 In whom the God of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.
 
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Lazarus Short

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Well, you missed the mark again:
Exodus 4:11 And the LORD said unto him, Who hath made man's mouth? or who maketh the dumb, or deaf, or the seeing, or the blind? have not I the LORD?

Luke 6:39 And he spake a parable unto them, Can the blind lead the blind? shall they not both fall into the ditch?

John 9:39 And Jesus said, For judgment I am come into this world, that they which see not might see; and that they which see might be made blind.

2 Corinthians 4:4 In whom the God of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.

One man's Proof Text is "Cherry Picking" to one with a different viewpoint or theology, and who is really blind, and who really sees?

Answer: Does your theology help you to see the Loving Creator of the universe more clearly, or does it obscure Him?
 
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he-man

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Rev.5:13 And every creature which is in heaven, and on the earth, and under the earth, and such as are on the sea, and all that are in them, heard I saying, Blessing, and honour, and glory, and power, be unto him that sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb for ever and ever.

This includes everyone in the universe, including the dead and demons:
Have you been deceived by your own blind translations?
Exodus 4:11 And the LORD said unto him, Who hath made man's mouth? or who maketh the dumb, or deaf, or the seeing, or the blind? have not I the LORD?

Luke 6:39 And he spake a parable unto them, Can the blind lead the blind? shall they not both fall into the ditch?

John 9:39 And Jesus said, For judgment I am come into this world, that they which see not might see; and that they which see might be made blind.

2 Corinthians 4:4 In whom the God of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.
 
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he-man

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One man's Proof Text is "Cherry Picking" to one with a different viewpoint or theology, and who is really blind, and who really sees?

Answer: Does your theology help you to see the Loving Creator of the universe more clearly, or does it obscure Him?

1 Peter 3:12  For the eyes of the Lord are over the righteous, and his ears are open unto their prayers: but the face of the Lord is upon them that do evil.

but the face of the Lord is against them that do evil; it is added in the psalm, "to cut off the remembrance of them from the earth": by "the face of the Lord" is meant, as the Jewish writers (y) interpret it, the anger of the Lord; it intends, not his kind, pleasant, and loving countenance, but his angry one with the former he beholds the upright, and with it he looks upon his righteous ones; but the latter is upon and against the wicked, and is dreadful and intolerable, and the consequence of it is everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power, [GILL]

And just as Universalists have tried to destroy the vineyard!
Jeremiah 12:10  Many pastors have destroyed my vineyard, they have trodden my portion under foot, they have made my pleasant portion a desolate wilderness. 

Jeremiah
23:2  Therefore thus saith the LORD God of Israel against the pastors that feed my people; Ye have scattered my flock, and driven them away, and have not visited them: behold, I will visit upon you the evil of your doings, saith the LORD.
 
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Lazarus Short

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And just as Universalists have tried to destroy the vineyard!

Universalists may say the same of Damnationists, but which side has a better handle on the character and nature of their God?
 
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FineLinen

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THE GOSPEL FROM OUTER SPACE – ROBERT SHORT

“The gospel of love heard from the churches is at bottom a gospel at gunpoint. This gospel claims to speak of a great love, but only one step behind this “love” is an unspoken, or often very vocal great threat – the threat of eternity in “hell” if we refuse this love. What a travesty of love, even human love, not to mention God’s! For one would think that God’s love ought to be at least as great as what human beings are capable of. It is precisely the implied or expressed threat of eternal perdition that compromises the churches’ ‘gospel of love,’ and gives this ‘gospel’ the lie to ordinary people, and is in fact behind by far, most of atheism.

On the other hand, this is not the quality of mercy I see in God. I get the strong feeling of an infinite, unconditional, no-strings-attached love for all people. At the same time this love is all-powerful and sovereign. It is not so flimsy and pitifully weak that it can be finally frustrated or defeated by mere human whim or by meager man’s arrogant illusion called ‘free will.’ ”
 
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he-man

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Universalists may say the same of Damnationists, but which side has a better handle on the character and nature of their God?
Oh?but the face of the Lord is against them that do evil; it is added in the psalm, "to cut off the remembrance of them from the earth": by "the face of the Lord" is meant, as the Jewish writers (y) interpret it, the anger of the Lord; it intends, not his kind, pleasant, and loving countenance, but his angry one with the former he beholds the upright, and with it he looks upon his righteous ones; but the latter is upon and against the wicked, and is dreadful and intolerable, and the consequence of it is everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power, [GILL]
Jeremiah 23:2  Therefore thus saith the LORD God of Israel against the pastors that feed my people; Ye have scattered my flock, and driven them away, and have not visited them: behold, I will visit upon you the evil of your doings, saith the LORD.
 
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FineLinen

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Originally Posted by Pleroo
I thought it was interesting when I looked up the Koine Greek word for "holy", hagios in Strongs, the notes in the etymology section included this:

thalpo
:

to warm, keep warm
to cherish with tender love, to foster with tender care

That, to me, is exactly what "holy" is/does.
smile.gif


Also, hagios is the same word translated as "saints" and is used in the phrase "Holy Spirit" and "Holy of holies" which is where God was said to dwell in the Temple.

"Or do you not know that your body is a temple of the Holy Spirit who is in you?"
"Christ dwells in you."

You, are the Holy of Holies. You, are the holiness of God [love and tender care] incarnated.

Dear Pleroo: What an amazing post! The saints of the Lord are indeed the Holy of the holies where God dwells and expresses Himself. God dwells in temples not made with hands. If one is a saint of His, a glorious union of heaven & earth commences leading to extravagant dimensions of grandeur.

The same worship of the angelic host calling to one another Holy>>>>>Holy>>>>Holy is the Fire that ignites saints calling to one another!

https://www.studylight.org/dictionar...nt-saints.html
 
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FineLinen

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Universalists may say the same of Damnationists, but which side has a better handle on the character and nature of their God?

Dear Lazarus: This is exactly the issue. Does the power of sin and despair reign supreme in Adam1, or does the "all the more" of the Last Adam, Jesus Christ prevail?

Grace Abounding Over Adam's Fall

“Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life”
(Romans 5:18).

A.E. Saxby, in God in Redemption 1, gives us a wonderfully logical reason for rejecting the notion that God will condemn anyone to eternal damnation and suffering, and rather proves that He has provided for the salvation of all mankind.

He says,

If a human act was effectual for ruin, how much more shall a Divine act be effectual for salvation?
How quickly we believers will latch on to some fragment of a verse, in a whole context, to prove a negative perception and then propagate it as truth, to the total exclusion of the whole context of the doctrine being presented.

Why do we so easily jump to conclude all men to condemnation, but find it so terribly difficult to accept with the same unabashedness the accompanying text which says that “the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life”?

How can anyone think that as the first Adam’s act could bring about the “ruin” of all of his descendants, that the second Adam’s act was nowhere near as efficacious to provide the remedy whereby all of those descendants would be rescued from such a penalty? It’s really quite an illogical act of mental gymnastics to interpret Romans 5 that way.

It is rather amazing that we never consider that as sin abounded in its effect on all of the first Adam’s posterity, God’s “grace did much more abound” (Romans 5:20).

Thus, if the first Adam’s act was so powerful as to affect the ruin of all of his future generations, how much less of an effect would God’s grace be through the redeeming act of the Second Adam, that even one of those offspring could be eternally lost forever to the loving grace of His Creator and Father?

It is too much to comprehend that we serve a God and Father so callous to the welfare of His creation, that He would allow any one of His dear creatures to go unprovided for in the eternal plan of His “great love wherewith He loved us.”

Note: 1. God in Redemption by A.E. Saxby, reprinted by Bible Student’s Press (2008).

http://www.theheraldofgodsgrace.org/Sneidar/grace.htm
 
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FineLinen

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Is the koine aionios a time word or a quality word?

Time or Character


Time or Character, The Ages or A Time Sequence in <em>aionios</em>: How Words "Mean" in Greek and English

Two readers wrote with similar questions about the Greek word aionios as it appears in the Bible. They questioned the translation or definition of the Greek word with the English word "eternal" or "everlasting."

I understand the meaning of the word aionios (often appearing in genitive plural aionion) in Greek to carry the connotation of 'pertaining to the age' or 'age enduring.' The word is a form of the word we have borrowed into English from the Latin transliteration of the Greek as aeon or eon. The problems in interpreting it as the English “eternal” or “everlasting” are several.

Let's get in focus some working principles of languages, meaning and translation. First of all, a word in one language and the culture it represents does not "mean" a word or the cultural concept it carries in another language.

Usage
Keep in mind that a "definition" is only a summary of how a word has been used. Meanings are all determined by usage. This what makes human speech so creative, dynamic, expressive and flexible. Inadequate assumptions about words, language and meaning can mislead us from the beginning.

So we first need to take a step back to look at the cultural or worldview concept. What we do is look at how we find a word being used. We honor the language and its cultural integrity. We do not assume in language that there is some objective authoritative "meaning" or "definition" that prescribes what a word can or must mean. That is not how language works.

We consider what underlying ideas are carried in words in a particular language. No language is independent of a historical, cultural context and the worldview of the culture using that language.

Thus in the strictest term, a word in Greek does not "mean" in English. Greek words "mean" what the Greek speaker was thinking in the Greek-speaking environment of that era and location. Similarly, today a Greek speaker is not referencing anything in English when he thinks and speaks fluently in his native tongue, or reads his Bible in his native tongue! Greek "means" in "Greek."

The English speaker/reader must get into that world to determine meaning, then search for the most adequate word or phrase to express that in the English language and cultural-social context.

Time or Character, The Ages or A Time Sequence in <em>aionios</em>: How Words "Mean" in Greek and English
 
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FineLinen

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The magnitude of redemption -Ray Prinzing-

“ ‘And we have seen and to testify that the Father sent the Son to be THE SAVIOUR OF THE WORLD.” 1 John 4:14.

‘Who will have ALL MEN to be saved, and to come into a knowledge of the truth’ 1Tim. 2:4.

This is not a pitting of man’s will against the will of God as some try to teach, with man’s will able to resist and hold out until God cannot change him, but must throw him into some eternal cesspool to be tormented. NAY – for we read that ‘He is working out all things after the counsel of His own will,’ and man cannot disannul that which HE has willed. It is God’s will that all shall come to Christ. He is the propitiation for the sins of the WHOLE WORLD. Why then shall we be so foolish as to dispute the immutability of His truth?”

The interplay of good & evil –Ray Prinzing-

“God is sovereign, and He controls all the interaction of evil and good, and causes all to redound to His own glory. It is not – what was lost by the fall was to be regained by redemption, BUT by the interaction of FALL AND REDEMPTION, God achieves greater, wiser, nobler, and higher goals than by the Adamic race remaining in its pristine state.

Evil and good are synchronized to accomplish God’s will and purpose, so that the ultimate goal shall reveal all evil transformed back into good, and all negation cancelled out by GOOD. Evil is allowed for wise ends, and when these are secured it must cease to exist, for God will restore all things into good. HE controls all the interaction between evil and good until His purpose of the ages is fulfilled. Then shall God be All in all.”
 
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he-man

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The magnitude of redemption -Ray Prinzing-

“ ‘And we have seen and to testify that the Father sent the Son to be THE SAVIOUR OF THE WORLD.” 1 John 4:14. ‘Who will have ALL MEN to be saved, and to come into a knowledge of the truth’ 1Tim. 2:4.
Evil and good are synchronized to accomplish God’s will and purpose, so that the ultimate goal shall reveal all evil transformed back into good, and all negation cancelled out by GOOD. Evil is allowed for wise ends, and when these are secured it must cease to exist, for God will restore all things into good. HE controls all the interaction between evil and good until His purpose of the ages is fulfilled. Then shall God be All in all.”
he that hath not the Son of God hath not life. Somebody does not have a Bible and does not tell the truth:
1 John 4:15 Whosoever shall confess that Jesus is the Son of God, God dwelleth in him, and he in God.
that the Father sent the Son to be the Saviour of the world; not of every individual person in it, for there are some that will go into everlasting penalty, and even a world that will be condemned; Christ is not in fact the Saviour of all the individuals of human nature, and therefore was not sent to be such; for if he was, the end of his mission is not fully answered; nor of the Jews only, but of the Gentiles also, and who are chiefly intended by "the world";

John 3:18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

For God so loved the world,.... The Persic version reads "men": but not every man in the world is here meant, or all the individuals of human nature; for all are not the objects of God's special love, which is here designed, as appears from the instance and evidence of it, the gift of his Son: nor is Christ God's gift to every one; for to whomsoever he gives his Son, he gives all things freely with him; which is not the case of every man. [GILL]

1 Timothy 2:4 hence by all men, whom God would have saved, cannot be meant every individual of mankind, since it is not his will that all men, in this large sense, should be saved, unless there are two contrary wills in God; for there are some who were before ordained by him unto condemnation, and are vessels of wrath fitted for destruction; and it is his will concerning some, that they should believe a lie, that they all might be damned; nor is it fact that all are saved, as they would be, if it was his will they should; for who hath resisted his will? but there is a world of ungodly men that will be condemned, and who will go into everlasting penal infliction: [unless they] come to the knowledge of the truth not merely to a notional knowledge of it, which persons may arrive unto, and not be saved, but a spiritual and experimental knowledge of it; and all that are saved are brought to such a knowledge, which is owing to the sovereign will and good pleasure of God, who hides the knowledge of Gospel truths from the wise and prudent, and reveals them to babes: whence it appears, that it is not his will with respect to every individual of mankind; and the Gospel is now sent into one part of the world, and not another; and where it does come, it is hid to the most; many are given up to strong delusions to believe a lie, and few are savingly and experimentally acquainted with the truths of the Gospel; though all that are saved are brought to the knowledge of such truths as are necessary to salvation; for they are chosen to it through sanctification of the Spirit, and belief of the truth.

1 John 5:12 He that hath the Son hath life; and he that hath not the Son of God hath not life.

1 John 5:16 even the least sin, is in its own nature mortal, or deserving of death; the proper wages of sin is death, yea, death eternal; yet none of the sins of God's elect are unto death, or issue in death, in fact; which is owing not to any different nature there is in their sins, or to their good works which counterbalance them; but to the grace of God, and to the blood and righteousness of Christ, by which they are pardoned and justified, and freed from obligation to punishment, or eternal death, the just demerits of them [GILL]
 
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How Eternity Slipped In -Dr. Alexander Thompson-

The inspired Scriptures never speak of eternity. They describe nothing as eternal. They contain no term which in itself bears our time sense of everlasting. As eternity is not a subject of revelation, our present object is to discover how and when this unscriptural term gained entrance into theology, with most disastrous results.

Continued below

Whence Eternity? How Eternity Slipped In by Alexander Thomson
 
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