I don't have Faith in God

Blue Lily · Nov 23, 2018

I got saved and begin calling myself a Christian 2 years ago and finally got baptized a year ago. Even over the last 2 years I have been battling unbelief in God. How can I learn and have trust and believe in God? I think this is due to not going Church as a child, having a narcissist parent that is a unbeliever installing negative about Jesus in me as a teen and dabbing into cults, new age and occult in the past.

Presbyterian Continuist · Nov 23, 2018

Blue Lily said:
I got saved and begin calling myself a Christian 2 years ago and finally got baptized a year ago. Even over the last 2 years I have been battling unbelief in God. How can I learn and have trust and believe in God? I think this is due to not going Church as a child, having a narcissist parent that is a unbeliever installing negative about Jesus in me as a teen and dabbing into cults, new age and occult in the past.

Just calling yourself a Christian doesn't save you, or mean that you are a real Christian. Anyone can put on the Christian "badge". What is needed is for your to seek God with all your heart so that the Holy Spirit will totally convert you to Christ. It is a work that only the Holy Spirit can do. If you don't go on and be totally converted to Christ, you will be as lost as any unbelieving sinner.

For Jesus to want to convert you, you must:
* Confess and repent of all known sin. You cannot have your favourite sins and Christ as well. He came to save you from your sins, not in them.
* turn away from the pleasures of this world.
* refuse to listen to the voice of the world, flesh and the devil in your mind.
* give your life completely over to the Lordship of Christ.
* give the thoughts of your mind completely over to the Lordship of Christ.
* be very strict in dealing with every known sin in your life, even the smallest ones. Even the smallest unrepented sin will shut the gates of heaven against you.
* give yourself to earnest prayer and reading the promises of God until you know that He has converted you.
* put your trust completely in Christ Himself over and above any church, minister, pastor, or anyone else. If Jesus is not Lord of all, He is not Lord at all.

Just accepting Christ in a church is just the starting point. Now Jesus has to accept you, and if you are half-hearted about seeking and serving Him, He won't accept you and you will stay lost in your sins.

Tolworth John · Nov 23, 2018

Blue Lily said:
I have been battling unbelief in God. How can I learn and have trust and believe in God?

Faith/trust comes through lnowledge of and experience of the person one is trusting.

So attend church, the same one each week. Get stuck in to what ever is going on there. Join a prayer team and start putting your faith to work by praying for those in need of prayer.

Study the bible, daily bread/everyday with Jesus bible notes. Read whole chapters andread a commentary on that chapter, follow apologeytoic blogs like coldcasechristianity, winteryknight, reasonablefaith, answersingenesis.

Ask yourself Why am I a Christian?
What evidence do you have for that belief?

You are reprogramming yourself from unbelief to belief and it takes a while to reestablish correct thought patterns. see Romans 12 v 1+2

disciple Clint · Nov 23, 2018

Oscarr said:
Just calling yourself a Christian doesn't save you, or mean that you are a real Christian. Anyone can put on the Christian "badge". What is needed is for your to seek God with all your heart so that the Holy Spirit will totally convert you to Christ. It is a work that only the Holy Spirit can do. If you don't go on and be totally converted to Christ, you will be as lost as any unbelieving sinner.

For Jesus to want to convert you, you must:
* Confess and repent of all known sin. You cannot have your favourite sins and Christ as well. He came to save you from your sins, not in them.
* turn away from the pleasures of this world.
* refuse to listen to the voice of the world, flesh and the devil in your mind.
* give your life completely over to the Lordship of Christ.
* give the thoughts of your mind completely over to the Lordship of Christ.
* be very strict in dealing with every known sin in your life, even the smallest ones. Even the smallest unrepented sin will shut the gates of heaven against you.
* give yourself to earnest prayer and reading the promises of God until you know that He has converted you.
* put your trust completely in Christ Himself over and above any church, minister, pastor, or anyone else. If Jesus is not Lord of all, He is not Lord at all.

Just accepting Christ in a church is just the starting point. Now Jesus has to accept you, and if you are half-hearted about seeking and serving Him, He won't accept you and you will stay lost in your sins.

OR you could just disregard legalism and open your heart to Jesus.
Romans 10:17 New King James Version (NKJV)
17 So then faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.
Read the word.
What Does the Bible Say About How To Be Saved?

Mark Quayle · Nov 23, 2018

Blue Lily said:
I got saved and begin calling myself a Christian 2 years ago and finally got baptized a year ago. Even over the last 2 years I have been battling unbelief in God. How can I learn and have trust and believe in God? I think this is due to not going Church as a child, having a narcissist parent that is a unbeliever installing negative about Jesus in me as a teen and dabbing into cults, new age and occult in the past.

It has remade my thinking in this question, to realize that my God is not the wimpy god who sits around waiting for people's decision to "accept" him. He does not kiss the rear end of "free will".

God is the one who decides whom to save, and he is the one who does the saving. This is what the Bible refers to as regeneration, or being born again, becoming a new creation --it is God in us, and is not the result of our effort nor strength of will, nor the integrity of our heart, nor the size of our intellect. It does not depend on us. But it will inevitably produce evidences, and so there is indeed a need for concerted effort on our part to obey. Yet even that is the work of God, and is of no value if it is only us doing it.

"Deciding to be saved", "Accepting Christ", or whatever words you want to use there, are not the cause of salvation, but the result. Depend on God to accomplish what he set out to do from the foundation of the earth. The reason he created us is for his own sake --not so much for ours, though it consumes us and fulfills us.

disciple Clint · Nov 23, 2018

Mark Quayle said:
It has remade my thinking in this question, to realize that my God is not the wimpy god who sits around waiting for people's decision to "accept" him. He does not kiss the rear end of "free will".

God is the one who decides whom to save, and he is the one who does the saving. This is what the Bible refers to as regeneration, or being born again, becoming a new creation --it is God in us, and is not the result of our effort nor strength of will, nor the integrity of our heart, nor the size of our intellect. It does not depend on us. But it will inevitably produce evidences, and so there is indeed a need for concerted effort on our part to obey. Yet even that is the work of God, and is of no value if it is only us doing it.

"Deciding to be saved", "Accepting Christ", or whatever words you want to use there, are not the cause of salvation, but the result. Depend on God to accomplish what he set out to do from the foundation of the earth. The reason he created us is for his own sake --not so much for ours, though it consumes us and fulfills us.

God wants us all to be saved

1 Timothy 2:4

2 Peter 3:9

Ezekiel 18:23

Matthew 23:37

Loyce KG · Nov 23, 2018

Blue Lily said:
I got saved and begin calling myself a Christian 2 years ago and finally got baptized a year ago. Even over the last 2 years I have been battling unbelief in God. How can I learn and have trust and believe in God? I think this is due to not going Church as a child, having a narcissist parent that is a unbeliever installing negative about Jesus in me as a teen and dabbing into cults, new age and occult in the past.

The ideas given above are all true and helpful. Additionally, pray and find a group of believers to fellowship with. These are people who will pray for you and hold you accountable in your walk with Christ.There has to be intentional building of faith together as a fellowship.

James 5:19 ''My brothers, if anyone among you wanders from the truth and someone brings him back.." this is how fellow Christians ought to stand in the gap.

Jude 23:23 "save others by snatching them out of the fire; to others show mercy with fear, hating even the garment stained by the flesh."

Example is Abraham in Romans 4:20-21 "No unbelief made him waver concerning the promise of God, but he grew strong in his faith as he gave glory to God, God was able to do what he had promised." Belief in God is not in what we see or don't see. It is not dependent on our emotions or circumstances or past events. It is futuristic. It is trusting in the promised of God, inwardly in our hearts. Gal 5:6 says, "...All that matters now is living in the faith that is activated and brought to perfection by love." TPT. Vs 8-9 shows how unbelief can enter one's heart-" when you allow even a little lie into your heart, it can permeate your entire belief system'. The root of Love is trusting in God wholeheartedly and unbelief brings forth sin.

The battle of unbelief is a constant fight in Christians though it gets easier with increased fellowship with the Holy spirit in prayer and the Word.
Paul encourages us to fight the good fight of faith like he did. "I have fought the good fight, I have finished the race, I have kept the faith." 2Tim 4:6

Mark Quayle · Nov 23, 2018

disciple Clint said:
God wants us all to be saved

1 Timothy 2:4

2 Peter 3:9

Ezekiel 18:23

Matthew 23:37

Read the context --the larger context too --of those verses. Understand what "wants" means when it is applied to God. And who he is speaking about in the "wanting". In every case, it turns out to not be quite how we like to look at it.

Yes, our decision is important, but not the cause of Salvation --it is the result of what God has already done.

Repentance --there is repentance that is temporary, and there is permanent repentance --is also a result of God working.

Are you telling me that God's purposes can be turned aside by mere man? Have we no promises that he will indeed accomplish everything he set out to do? But more than that --look how he does it. And why.

We make much of ourselves, but we are nothing apart from his assessment, or endowment, or definition of us. We are not rightly dignified as beings, apart from his reason for creating us.

disciple Clint · Nov 23, 2018

Mark Quayle said:
Read the context --the larger context too --of those verses. Understand what "wants" means when it is applied to God. And who he is speaking about in the "wanting". In every case, it turns out to not be quite how we like to look at it.

Yes, our decision is important, but not the cause of Salvation --it is the result of what God has already done.

Repentance --there is repentance that is temporary, and there is permanent repentance --is also a result of God working.

Are you telling me that God's purposes can be turned aside by mere man? Have we no promises that he will indeed accomplish everything he set out to do? But more than that --look how he does it. And why.

We make much of ourselves, but we are nothing apart from his assessment, or endowment, or definition of us. We are not rightly dignified as beings, apart from his reason for creating us.

well at least i agree with half of what you said. We will have to leave it at that

Presbyterian Continuist · Nov 23, 2018

disciple Clint said:
OR you could just disregard legalism and open your heart to Jesus.
Romans 10:17 New King James Version (NKJV)
17 So then faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.
Read the word.
What Does the Bible Say About How To Be Saved?

Everything that I have said is genuinely opening your heart to Jesus.

It is not legalism. Conversion is a work of the Holy Spirit that is done through the unmerited grace of God through faith. But there is evidence of true conversion, and following all the laws of Christ is one of them. If a person says that they are converted and have not repented and forsaken all known sin, they they still have to be converted. Jesus came to save us from our sins not in them.

disciple Clint · Nov 23, 2018

Oscarr said:
Everything that I have said is genuinely opening your heart to Jesus.

It is not legalism. Conversion is a work of the Holy Spirit that is done through the unmerited grace of God through faith. But there is evidence of true conversion, and following all the laws of Christ is one of them. If a person says that they are converted and have not repented and forsaken all known sin, they they still have to be converted. Jesus came to save us from our sins not in them.

yes it is the work of the Holy Spirit and grace is unmerited and repentance is required and by definition repentance is turning away from our sinful ways. I have a problem with following all the laws of God, I have been saved for quite some time and I still sin, Paul seemed to have the same problem.

Presbyterian Continuist · Nov 23, 2018

disciple Clint said:
yes it is the work of the Holy Spirit and grace is unmerited and repentance is required and by definition repentance is turning away from our sinful ways. I have a problem with following all the laws of God, I have been saved for quite some time and I still sin, Paul seemed to have the same problem.

There is a difference between harbouring unrepented sin and the weakness of the flesh. Paul said that there was nothing good in him, that is in his flesh. But trying to hang on to favourite sins wilfully and still loving them and trying to have Christ as well, does not work and will cause the gates of heaven to be shut against a person.

God requires absolute holiness, and that can only happen with genuine conversion. Then the converted Christian hates sin, especially in himself, and does everything he can to renounce all known sin. Where there is weakness in his flesh, he confesses to God on the basis of 1 John 1:9. But the truly converted Christian is very strict about his personal holiness because the last thing he wants to do is to do anything that would discredit the name of Christ. This is why he is no longer afraid of God, but now is afraid of sin, because he knows the consequences of it.

Many professing believers make excuses for sin because they don't want to have the standard of strictness that God requires of converted Christians. They are very particular about their religious appearance before men, but they willfully hold on to their secret sins and think that God does not see them.

Paul's experience in Romans 7 is not an excuse to hold on to wandering, lustful eyes, and sexual fantasies, hating people, being contentious, alcoholic, homosexual, coveting wealth and position in the world and the church, being jealous of their gift and quenching the spirit of anyone who has the same gift, and envious of those who have more effective gifts. All these are works of the flesh and will condemn a religious person to hell. These are willful sins and not weakness of the flesh. They must be confessed, repented of and totally renounced.

The flesh will always war against the recreated spirit in a believer. That is why we must be strict to make sure that the flesh doesn't have the dominance. We should have the attitude that sin shall not have control over us in any way. The Scripture says that those who are in the flesh cannot please God and will not inherit the kingdom of God. This is not the occasional weakness, but a habitual lifestyle where the flesh reigns. If the flesh reigns, then Jesus is not Lord, and if He is not Lord of all, He is not Lord at all.

This is not legalism. It is the life of the converted Christian. Legalism is trying to follow the moral law to try and be acceptable to God before receiving Christ and being converted. Conversion has to come first. Once that happens, the new heart and spirit hungers and thirsts after total righteousness and holiness.

disciple Clint · Nov 23, 2018

Oscarr said:
There is a difference between harbouring unrepented sin and the weakness of the flesh. Paul said that there was nothing good in him, that is in his flesh. But trying to hang on to favourite sins wilfully and still loving them and trying to have Christ as well, does not work and will cause the gates of heaven to be shut against a person.

God requires absolute holiness, and that can only happen with genuine conversion. Then the converted Christian hates sin, especially in himself, and does everything he can to renounce all known sin. Where there is weakness in his flesh, he confesses to God on the basis of 1 John 1:9. But the truly convicted Christian is very strict about his personal holiness because the last thing he wants to do is to do anything that would discredit the name of Christ. This is why he is no longer afraid of God, but now is afraid of sin, because he knows the consequences of it.

Many professing believers make excuses for sin because they don't want to have the standard of strictness that God requires of converted Christians. They are very particular about their religious appearance before men, but they willfully hold on to their secret sins and think that God does not see them.

Paul's experience in Romans 7 is not an excuse to hold on to wandering, lustful eyes, and sexual fantasies, hating people, being contentious, alcoholic, homosexual, coveting wealth and position in the world and the church, being jealous of their gift and quenching the spirit of anyone who has the same gift, and envious of those who have more effective gifts. All these are works of the flesh and will condemn a religious person to hell. These are willful sins and not weakness of the flesh. They must be confessed, repented of and totally renounced.

The flesh will always war against the recreated spirit in a believer. That is why we must be strict to make sure that the flesh doesn't have the dominance. We should have the attitude that sin shall not have control over us in any way. The Scripture says that those who are in the flesh cannot please God and will not inherit the kingdom of God. This is not the occasional weakness, but a habitual lifestyle where the flesh reigns. If the flesh reigns, then Jesus is not Lord, and if He is not Lord of all, He is not Lord at all.

This is not legalism. It is the life of the converted Christian. Legalism is trying to follow the moral law to try and be acceptable to God before receiving Christ and being converted. Conversion has to come first. Once that happens, the new heart ans spirit hungers and thirsts after total righteousness and holiness.

let me make this simple if you are depending on your holiness you are not going to be saved Ever. I am not judging you, this applies to everyone or anyone

Sycarton · Nov 23, 2018

Oscarr said:
Just calling yourself a Christian doesn't save you, or mean that you are a real Christian. Anyone can put on the Christian "badge". What is needed is for your to seek God with all your heart so that the Holy Spirit will totally convert you to Christ. It is a work that only the Holy Spirit can do. If you don't go on and be totally converted to Christ, you will be as lost as any unbelieving sinner.

For Jesus to want to convert you, you must:
* Confess and repent of all known sin. You cannot have your favourite sins and Christ as well. He came to save you from your sins, not in them.
* turn away from the pleasures of this world.
* refuse to listen to the voice of the world, flesh and the devil in your mind.
* give your life completely over to the Lordship of Christ.
* give the thoughts of your mind completely over to the Lordship of Christ.
* be very strict in dealing with every known sin in your life, even the smallest ones. Even the smallest unrepented sin will shut the gates of heaven against you.
* give yourself to earnest prayer and reading the promises of God until you know that He has converted you.
* put your trust completely in Christ Himself over and above any church, minister, pastor, or anyone else. If Jesus is not Lord of all, He is not Lord at all.

Just accepting Christ in a church is just the starting point. Now Jesus has to accept you, and if you are half-hearted about seeking and serving Him, He won't accept you and you will stay lost in your sins.

Sycarton · Nov 23, 2018

Are you going to invest in your doubt or are you going to put your faith in Christ? What the Bible says is true, is true. It's God's Word, and God is NOT a liar. Romans 5:8 says, "But God demonstrates his own love for us in this: While we were still sinners, Christ died for us."

Christ died for us WHILE we were still sinners, not because we did anything to deserve it. He died for us, so we could live.

John 3:16 says, "For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life."

Romans 15:7 "Accept one another, then, just as Christ accepted you, in order to bring praise to God"

Christ accepts us. We cannot be perfect here on Earth. We have flaws and Christ knows that. But he died for us so that we could be made clean. 1 John 1:9 "If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness"

Hebrews 9:14 "How much more will the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without blemish to God, purify our conscience from dead works to serve the living God."

We are not sinless here in this world. But that doesnt mean that we get to make a practice of sin.

You can ALWAYS pray to God, and ask Him for help. You can talk to him about anything. There are so many verses in the Bible telling us to seek God.

I copied and pasted these from OpenBible.info

"Deuteronomy 4:29 ESV / 836 helpful votes
But from there you will seek the Lord your God and you will find him, if you search after him with all your heart and with all your soul.

Proverbs 8:17 ESV / 751 helpful votes
I love those who love me, and those who seek me diligently find me.

Jeremiah 29:12-14 ESV / 627 helpful votes
Then you will call upon me and come and pray to me, and I will hear you. You will seek me and find me, when you seek me with all your heart. I will be found by you, declares the Lord, and I will restore your fortunes and gather you from all the nations and all the places where I have driven you, declares the Lord, and I will bring you back to the place from which I sent you into exile.

Matthew 6:33 ESV / 610 helpful votes
But seek first the kingdom of God and his righteousness, and all these things will be added to you.

1 Chronicles 16:11 ESV / 605 helpful votes
Seek the Lord and his strength; seek his presence continually!

Matthew 7:7-8 ESV / 552 helpful votes
“Ask, and it will be given to you; seek, and you will find; knock, and it will be opened to you. For everyone who asks receives, and the one who seeks finds, and to the one who knocks it will be opened.

Jeremiah 29:13 ESV / 494 helpful votes
You will seek me and find me, when you seek me with all your heart.

Hebrews 11:6 ESV / 471 helpful votes
And without faith it is impossible to please him, for whoever would draw near to God must believe that he exists and that he rewards those who seek him."

Presbyterian Continuist · Nov 23, 2018

disciple Clint said:
let me make this simple if you are depending on your holiness you are not going to be saved Ever. I am not judging you, this applies to everyone or anyone

Absolute holiness or morality in itself does not save us. Only true conversion can save us and that is something that we cannot do ourselves, no matter how strong our profession of Christianity is, or how many times we "accept" Christ, go to church, do Christian activities, even preach the Gospel and pastor churches, speak in tongues, prophesy, try to cast out demons and all the other stuff that Christians do.

I don't think that a lot of people fully realize that just accepting Christ is not conversion or salvation. Christ has to accept us, and that can only come through conversion - and conversion is not automatic. It is a definite work of the Holy Spirit and there is a real and definite transformation in the heart and spirit of a believer. Just saying the sinner's prayer and putting on the Christian "badge" is not enough and a lot of people who do that and no more will find themselves in hell.

Believing the Gospel and turning to Christ is just the first step. Then the believer earnestly seeks God through prayer and the Word until there is the definite experience of conversion and there is absolute and definite evidence that the conversion to Christ has taken place. For God to do this in a person, He has to see clearly that the believer is fully committed to Jesus Christ as total and complete Lord of his life and conduct, otherwise He won't do it, and the professing believer will find the gates of Heaven locked against him. When that believer, in the judgment, asks Christ why he can't come in to Heaven, the Lord will say to him, "You were very religious all right, but you did not give Me your whole heart!"

This is why the gate to eternal life is very narrow, and few there are who find it. I would say that at least 50% of all church goers are just religious and unconverted, because they have depended on their profession of Christianity, and not pressed into God to be fully converted to Christ; therefore they have one foot in the Christian religion and the other foot still firmly planted in the world. And the Scripture says that a friend of the world is no friend of Christ.

I can't express this enough: that true conversion is not something we can do, no matter how religious we are in the Christian faith. We can be utterly and absolutely religious in every respect, but if we are not converted to Christ, we are lost! And God is the only one who can do it in us. And it doesn't happen until the religious person seeks God with all his heart and soul for it and stays waiting on God until it happens. It may have to be sought with tears and pleading until it happens. But when it happens, the truly converted Christian knows all about it, because he knows that God has genuinely transformed him in his heart and spirit.

Then, and only then, does he hunger and thirst after total holiness, without which, he will never see the Lord.

Many, who are actually unconverted and shy away from the strictness of holiness that God requires, use legalism as an excuse for why they think they don't have to be strict about their personal holiness, and use it as an excuse to keep their favourite lust or covetousness.

Presbyterian Continuist · Nov 23, 2018

Sycarton said:
Are you going to invest in your doubt or are you going to put your faith in Christ? What the Bible says is true, is true. It's God's Word, and God is NOT a liar. Romans 5:8 says, "But God demonstrates his own love for us in this: While we were still sinners, Christ died for us."

Christ died for us WHILE we were still sinners, not because we did anything to deserve it. He died for us, so we could live.

John 3:16 says, "For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life."

Romans 15:7 "Accept one another, then, just as Christ accepted you, in order to bring praise to God"

Christ accepts us. We cannot be perfect here on Earth. We have flaws and Christ knows that. But he died for us so that we could be made clean. 1 John 1:9 "If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness"

Hebrews 9:14 "How much more will the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without blemish to God, purify our conscience from dead works to serve the living God."

We are not sinless here in this world. But that doesnt mean that we get to make a practice of sin.

You can ALWAYS pray to God, and ask Him for help. You can talk to him about anything. There are so many verses in the Bible telling us to seek God.

I copied and pasted these from OpenBible.info

"Deuteronomy 4:29 ESV / 836 helpful votes
But from there you will seek the Lord your God and you will find him, if you search after him with all your heart and with all your soul.

Proverbs 8:17 ESV / 751 helpful votes
I love those who love me, and those who seek me diligently find me.

Jeremiah 29:12-14 ESV / 627 helpful votes
Then you will call upon me and come and pray to me, and I will hear you. You will seek me and find me, when you seek me with all your heart. I will be found by you, declares the Lord, and I will restore your fortunes and gather you from all the nations and all the places where I have driven you, declares the Lord, and I will bring you back to the place from which I sent you into exile.

Matthew 6:33 ESV / 610 helpful votes
But seek first the kingdom of God and his righteousness, and all these things will be added to you.

1 Chronicles 16:11 ESV / 605 helpful votes
Seek the Lord and his strength; seek his presence continually!

Matthew 7:7-8 ESV / 552 helpful votes
“Ask, and it will be given to you; seek, and you will find; knock, and it will be opened to you. For everyone who asks receives, and the one who seeks finds, and to the one who knocks it will be opened.

Jeremiah 29:13 ESV / 494 helpful votes
You will seek me and find me, when you seek me with all your heart.

Hebrews 11:6 ESV / 471 helpful votes
And without faith it is impossible to please him, for whoever would draw near to God must believe that he exists and that he rewards those who seek him."

I don't know whether you were replying to my post or not, but the references you have quoted are definitely the way to achieve genuine conversion to Christ. The Scripture says, "Repent and be converted, that your sins be blotted out."

Repentance is what we do, and your quotes show that. But conversion is what God does in response to a believer truly seeking Him as you have quoted through Scripture.

hedrick · Nov 23, 2018

Blue Lily said:
I got saved and begin calling myself a Christian 2 years ago and finally got baptized a year ago. Even over the last 2 years I have been battling unbelief in God. How can I learn and have trust and believe in God? I think this is due to not going Church as a child, having a narcissist parent that is a unbeliever installing negative about Jesus in me as a teen and dabbing into cults, new age and occult in the past.

I think the Protestant emphasis on faith can lead people like you to be unnecessarily worried. I don't believe Paul meant that we have to manufacture some specific mental state. I believe as long as you're following Jesus, trying to do what he taught, he recognizes you as his. Certainly faith and trust are good things, and I think they'll eventually come. But Christians should focus on Jesus, not their own feelings.

Sycarton · Nov 23, 2018

Oscarr said:
Absolute holiness or morality in itself does not save us. Only true conversion can save us and that is something that we cannot do ourselves, no matter how strong our profession of Christianity is, or how many times we "accept" Christ, go to church, do Christian activities, even preach the Gospel and pastor churches, speak in tongues, prophesy, try to cast out demons and all the other stuff that Christians do.

I don't think that a lot of people fully realize that just accepting Christ is not conversion or salvation. Christ has to accept us, and that can only come through conversion - and conversion is not automatic. It is a definite work of the Holy Spirit and there is a real and definite transformation in the heart and spirit of a believer. Just saying the sinner's prayer and putting on the Christian "badge" is not enough and a lot of people who do that and no more will find themselves in hell.

Believing the Gospel and turning to Christ is just the first step. Then the believer earnestly seeks God through prayer and the Word until there is the definite experience of conversion and there is absolute and definite evidence that the conversion to Christ has taken place. For God to do this in a person, He has to see clearly that the believer is fully committed to Jesus Christ as total and complete Lord of his life and conduct, otherwise He won't do it, and the professing believer will find the gates of Heaven locked against him. When that believer, in the judgment, asks Christ why he can't come in to Heaven, the Lord will say to him, "You were very religious all right, but you did not give Me your whole heart!"

This is why the gate to eternal life is very narrow, and few there are who find it. I would say that at least 50% of all church goers are just religious and unconverted, because they have depended on their profession of Christianity, and not pressed into God to be fully converted to Christ; therefore they have one foot in the Christian religion and the other foot still firmly planted in the world. And the Scripture says that a friend of the world is no friend of Christ.

I can't express this enough: that true conversion is not something we can do, no matter how religious we are in the Christian faith. We can be utterly and absolutely religious in every respect, but if we are not converted to Christ, we are lost! And God is the only one who can do it in us. And it doesn't happen until the religious person seeks God with all his heart and soul for it and stays waiting on God until it happens. It may have to be sought with tears and pleading until it happens. But when it happens, the truly converted Christian knows all about it, because he knows that God has genuinely transformed him in his heart and spirit.

Then, and only then, does he hunger and thirst after total holiness, without which, he will never see the Lord.

Many, who are actually unconverted and shy away from the strictness of holiness that God requires, use legalism as an excuse for why they think they don't have to be strict about their personal holiness, and use it as an excuse to keep their favourite lust or covetousness.

I see that you mentioned something about the strictness of holiness. Ephesians 2:8,9 says "For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith--and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God--not by works, so that no one can boast." It says salvation is by grace through faith. Now we cannot make a practice of sin, but I don't think we should go around worrying whether weve done enough.

I am saying this because I have obsessive compulsive disorder, I worry alot about God being angry at me for doing something wrong, and I have alot of "what ifs". What it's God is mad because of this what about that, I worry that I don't have "enough" faith, and that because of it, Jesus won't accept me because I sometimes have doubts. I don't want others to feel like its "too hard" to come to Jesus and be saved because of you saying this. I'm not trying to argue, but what you're saying makes it seem less faith based and more works based.

Presbyterian Continuist · Nov 23, 2018

Sycarton said:
I see that you mentioned something about the strictness of holiness. Ephesians 2:8,9 says "For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith--and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God--not by works, so that no one can boast." It says salvation is by grace through faith. Now we cannot make a practice of sin, but I don't think we should go around worrying whether weve done enough.

I am saying this because I have obsessive compulsive disorder, I worry alot about God being angry at me for doing something wrong, and I have alot of "what ifs". What it's God is mad because of this what about that, I worry that I don't have "enough" faith, and that because of it, Jesus won't accept me because I sometimes have doubts. I don't want others to feel like its "too hard" to come to Jesus and be saved because of you saying this. I'm not trying to argue, but what you're saying makes it seem less faith based and more works based.

I think that the sense of worry that we haven't done enough is good for us. It drives us in prayer to the Lord for Him to search our hearts to make sure that we are genuine and not hypocrites.

The problem people are those who think they have done enough and they start depending on their self-righteousness to remain acceptable to God.

Conversion to Christ is the transformation that the Holy Spirit does in response to our faith and trust in Christ, and our determined and earnest seeking of Him to do the work in us. That is the grace and mercy through faith part.

But once conversion has happened and we have received mercy, forgiveness, and the transformation of our heart, spirit, and mind, then our continuing Christian life is based on what we do. This is what James teaches. He says that true "religion" or Christian living is keeping ourselves unspotted from the world, and looking after needy people. These are the works that show that we are genuinely converted to Christ.

The process is this:
1. We believe the Gospel, repent of all known sin and turn to Christ
2. We seek God for the transformation that comes through conversion.
3. We follow Christ and do the things He tells us to do.

The first two are "being saved by grace, and not of ourselves, it is the gift of God".
The third is reading the Bible and then "doing" it.

After conversion, being strict about holy living is not legalism to try and be acceptable to God, because through conversion we are already acceptable and have the righteousness of Christ, so that God does not see us as sinners any longer.

We are strict because we love Christ and want to be the best we can for Him. Sure, we will have a battle with our fleshly desires and reactions, but we don't let them dominate us, and if we had the choice, we would not want them. They would be like a stone in the shoe, or grit in the eyes - an annoyance to us.

So, cause your sense of not doing enough be the motivation to prayer and getting in the Word of God and tightening your grip on Christ as your only hope. There is a sense of hating yourself, because you have the sentence of death in yourself that you should not trust in yourself, but in God who raises the dead. (somewhere in 2 Corinthians 1).

When I read what you wrote, my first reaction was, "Praise the Lord! Here is a genuine and healthy Christian believer!"

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