Mental Illness and Christianity

dogs4thewin · Nov 19, 2018

NBB said:
I think of depression more like a state of your soul rather than a mental illness, like being sad etc.

Depression is far from the only mental illness someone could have. ( Even if "being sad" was considered to be depression.

dogs4thewin · Nov 19, 2018

derpytia said:
Mental illness is a valid thing and saying that it isn't based on personal experience is a bit of an insult to those of us (myself included) that have been struggling with mental illness since childhood.

You can't tell me that none of the apostles or people that God has used in the Bible were mentally ill at some point or for the majority of their life. I would not be surprised at all if Paul went through major depression after and during all he went through. Even King David wrote of his moments of total and utter despair over sins/death/family/etc and almost constant anxiety over whether his enemies were going to overtake him. Even Elijah wanted to die at some point (nobody that wants to die is mentally healthy). Jeremiah wished he had never been born and suffered poverty and loneliness throughout his life. If you say that Job was never depressed during or after all that he had gone through (though God restored him, dead children cannot just be replaced) then you haven't been paying attention to his cries of anguish and despair very well.

Mental illness ≠ lack of strength and/or faith.

thank you.

step_by_step · Nov 19, 2018

Neostarwcc said:
Thanks. It just sucks that's all. It feels like a forever wait but at the same time the days zoom by. Lol.

Amen! Glory and praise to our Lord and Savior forever and ever! What is personality disorder? I've never heard of it.

borderline personality disorder (bpd) is kind of a tricky disorder to explain...it's born of trauma or it's sometimes hereditary. basically it affects the way a person sees themselves. those of us with bpd often don't feel we have a personality so we "mirror" others. we fear abandonment, worry that we're unloved or unwanted even when we've been told otherwise and etc. I suggest looking it up if you want to know more but research carefully. bpd is a very demonized disorder and while some people who have it can really be awful, most of us are just trying to cope with our symptoms.

dogs4thewin · Nov 19, 2018

NBB said:
You have illness in the brain etc, nervous system etc, chemicals, and illness in the spirit, caused by something in this fallen world or caused by spirits, i would say a lot of cases are spiritual related too, i have autism, i had ocd until God cured me.

so do you have a problem with people taking medication for other conditions such as cancer, heart issues ECT?

dogs4thewin · Nov 19, 2018

double posy

Neostarwcc · Nov 19, 2018

step_by_step said:
borderline personality disorder (bpd) is kind of a tricky disorder to explain...it's born of trauma or it's sometimes hereditary. basically it affects the way a person sees themselves. those of us with bpd often don't feel we have a personality so we "mirror" others. we fear abandonment, worry that we're unloved or unwanted even when we've been told otherwise and etc. I suggest looking it up if you want to know more but research carefully. bpd is a very demonized disorder and while some people who have it can really be awful, most of us are just trying to cope with our symptoms.

I really should look it up. But it sounds like your mental illness is hard to live with too. But at least they won't be for forever right?

NBB · Nov 19, 2018

dogs4thewin said:
so do you have a problem with people taking medication for other conditions such as cancer, heart issues ECT?

I don't see why you would make that conclusion from my post, i say a lot of cases are spiritual, but a lot are physical too, medication is ok. except when they give some kind of drugs to just calm you down and make things worse in the long run like it happened to me i got addicted to one, and when i quit, the abstinence syndrome was hell. The consequences of that ride were long lasting, I actually hate drugs, but i take some because i have to.

thomasanderson · Nov 19, 2018

dogs4thewin said:
There are different "levels" of mental illness. Not all people who are considered mentally ill are unstable or unable to be a funcutioning member of society.

Yeah and I could tell you that I have purple and pink polka dot penguins swimming laps in my basement but that wouldn’t make it true. Same as with their fake diagnoses.

Neostarwcc · Nov 19, 2018

NBB said:
I don't see why you would make that conclusion from my post, i say a lot of cases are spiritual, but a lot are physical too, medication is ok. except when they give some kind of drugs to just calm you down and make things worse in the long run like it happened to me i got addicted to one, and when i quit, the abstinence syndrome was hell. I actually hate drugs, but i take some because i have to.

But see most of the time medication does more than just calm a person down. Like for my schizo-affective disorder. If it wasn't for medication I would be in the hospital every 2 years or so. It does more than just calm me down it helps cure me. And that's a good thing. I'm glad for advances in medication.

dogs4thewin · Nov 19, 2018

thomasanderson said:
Yeah and I could tell you that I have purple and pink polka dot penguins swimming laps in my basement but that wouldn’t make it true. Same as with their fake diagnoses.

There are cases of mental illness that are true. Now, that does not mean that every person who claims to have one does, but there is a such thing.

Serving Zion · Nov 19, 2018

It is a secular view of mental problems. Religion has traditionally existed because of this .. that humans are not perfect, they have problems.

The knowledge that Christianity (that was Judaism before Christ) digs into, is how the human opened the door for sin and the spiritual death to enter the world through it.. so that the corruption of the way we think (philosophy) works it's way into us as it is formed in us every day since birth.

If we lived in a world that was not fallen, therefore everyone was perfect in love (aka: The Holy Spirit: 1 John 4:16), then there would be no temptation, no cruelness, no harm or anything that causes us to become marred - we would continuously be growing in who we are, as the image of God.

But, the fact is that people in this world (increasingly) are marred (Matthew 24:12). They do not behave with The Holy Spirit or love, but they are cruel, tempting, harmful (1 John 4:8). The world causes us to think and do things that are against the natural way that humans should be doing things .. but it also teaches us that it is normal to do so. Then of course when the knowledge of righteousness comes along (aka: Torah), then because we have become conditioned and even addicted to our unrighteous ways, we choose to disobey Torah.. to justify ourselves in unrighteousness (Romans 7:9). At that moment (aka: the age of accountability), we have become guilty in God's sight - we have chosen to do that which is unrighteous, and have disregarded a fair and proper knowledge of Torah that God expects us to follow (aka: walking in the darkness/following deceit - 1 John 1:6-7).

That happens all manner of ways, it is just the nature of the serpent to be so cunning - always looking to figure out our weaknesses and exploit them, in order to make us a slave to our passions (Romans 6:16).

So, philosophy is deep-rooted in our behaviour, as a reflection of the culture that has taught us the expectations of a "normal" human being.. and that is changing constantly. These days, compared to only 15 years ago, inappropriate contentography is normal. Unconventional gender expressions are being normalised.. and all these things are causing us to develop philosophies and desires that put us at odds with Torah, so that we are tempted and forced to repent of them or to abandon The Holy Spirit.

.. and Christian doctrines certainly have their shortcomings these days, meaning that there are a great number of so-called Christians who believe things that put them at odds with Torah, becoming liars and hypocrites, and demonic rather than holy (1 Timothy 4:1-2).

So I put this to you, that what John 9:2 is saying, reflects that they were learning in those days that the key to a perfect life is to learn Torah (not 613 commandments - but Hebrews 8:10 and Jeremiah 9:23-24 - how to live as the image of God).

Then, what you have in your case, the way your mind thinks, the judgements it makes, the judgements you expect others to make of you, your preferences, values, resentments etc.. that the old serpent is always looking to use whatever people and events are present in the given moment, to tempt you to fall into a mode of behaviour that is not your proper self, is fearful to express your proper self .. and it is not of love.

So by saying this, I suggest that you might be able to recognise patterns that trigger you into those states of insecurity, and I suggest that it is possible therefore to heal that tendency by making changes, in order to close that door and open a new door to full confidence of self-expression. That might mean a total change of lifestyle for a while, getting with new people who know nothing of you, who can't think of you according to your past, and who also are able to reinforce confidence in who you are, as we see you (1 John 4:7).

.. so you see that I don't use the knowledge of demonology in a derogatory or meaningless way. Rather, it is a discipline of study of the human condition as sin and spirit are involved in human behaviour. Mental health is a different discipline altogether, being secularised and purposefully opposed to the Christian knowledge of demonology, they yield themselves unwittingly to do the devil's work. This is why I say that Christians should seek healing by The Holy Spirit rather than the medical profession, because it is an opposite approach to the same problem, having a core conflict of interest with Jesus Christ in the matter.

.. but if it sounds like it doesn't quite answer your question, let me know why, that would be interesting!

step_by_step · Nov 19, 2018

Serving Zion said:
It is a secular view of mental problems. Religion has traditionally existed because of this .. that humans are not perfect, they have problems.

The knowledge that Christianity (that was Judaism before Christ) digs into, is how the human opened the door for sin and the spiritual death to enter the world through it.. so that the corruption of the way we think (philosophy) works it's way into us as it is formed in us every day since birth.

If we lived in a world that was not fallen, therefore everyone was perfect in love (aka: The Holy Spirit: 1 John 4:16), then there would be no temptation, no cruelness, no harm or anything that causes us to become marred - we would continuously be growing in who we are, as the image of God.

But, the fact is that people in this world (increasingly) are marred (Matthew 24:12). They do not behave with The Holy Spirit or love, but they are cruel, tempting, harmful (1 John 4:8). The world causes us to think and do things that are against the natural way that humans should be doing things .. but it also teaches us that it is normal to do so. Then of course when the knowledge of righteousness comes along (aka: Torah), then because we have become conditioned and even addicted to our unrighteous ways, we choose to disobey Torah.. to justify ourselves in unrighteousness (Romans 7:9). At that moment (aka: the age of accountability), we have become guilty in God's sight - we have chosen to do that which is unrighteous, and have disregarded a fair and proper knowledge of Torah that God expects us to follow (aka: walking in the darkness/following deceit - 1 John 1:6-7).

That happens all manner of ways, it is just the nature of the serpent to be so cunning - always looking to figure out our weaknesses and exploit them, in order to make us a slave to our passions (Romans 6:16).

So, philosophy is deep-rooted in our behaviour, as a reflection of the culture that has taught us the expectations of a "normal" human being.. and that is changing constantly. These days, compared to only 15 years ago, inappropriate contentography is normal. Unconventional gender expressions are being normalised.. and all these things are causing us to develop philosophies and desires that put us at odds with Torah, so that we are tempted and forced to repent of them or to abandon The Holy Spirit.

.. and Christian doctrines certainly have their shortcomings these days, meaning that there are a great number of so-called Christians who believe things that put them at odds with Torah, becoming liars and hypocrites, and demonic rather than holy (1 Timothy 4:1-2).

So I put this to you, that what John 9:2 is saying, reflects that they were learning in those days that the key to a perfect life is to learn Torah (not 613 commandments - but Hebrews 8:10 and Jeremiah 9:23-24 - how to live as the image of God).

Then, what you have in your case, the way your mind thinks, the judgements it makes, the judgements you expect others to make of you, your preferences, values, resentments etc.. that the old serpent is always looking to use whatever people and events are present in the given moment, to tempt you to fall into a mode of behaviour that is not your proper self, is fearful to express your proper self .. and it is not of love.

So by saying this, I suggest that you might be able to recognise patterns that trigger you into those states of insecurity, and I suggest that it is possible therefore to heal that tendency by making changes, in order to close that door and open a new door to full confidence of self-expression. That might mean a total change of lifestyle for a while, getting with new people who know nothing of you, who can't think of you according to your past, and who also are able to reinforce confidence in who you are, as we see you (1 John 4:7).

.. so you see that I don't use the knowledge of demonology in a derogatory or meaningless way. Rather, it is a discipline of study of the human condition as sin and spirit are involved in human behaviour. Mental health is a different discipline altogether, being secularised and purposefully opposed to the Christian knowledge of demonology, they yield themselves unwittingly to do the devil's work. This is why I say that Christians should seek healing by The Holy Spirit rather than the medical profession, because it is an opposite approach to the same problem, having a core conflict of interest with Jesus Christ in the matter.

.. but if it sounds like it doesn't quite answer your question, let me know why, that would be interesting!

So you are saying that mental illness is a direct consequence (not really the word I'm looking for but all I can think of right now) of sin/living in a broken world and/or it's a lie told to us by the devil? I'm not trying to be argumentative, I'm just trying to fully understand what you're saying before responding

Serving Zion · Nov 19, 2018

step_by_step said:
So you are saying that mental illness is a direct consequence (not really the word I'm looking for but all I can think of right now) of sin/living in a broken world and/or it's a lie told to us by the devil? I'm not trying to be argumentative, I'm just trying to fully understand what you're saying before responding

Yes, I would agree with that. Con-sequence means "of a sequence", so it's a good word to use. If it were a perfect world (aka: everyone had holy spirit, no sin), then there would be no mental illness.

Mental illness is a brokenness of what God made. It is broken through the assault of the devil's work that is prevalent in the world, because the majority of the world is enslaved by sin (Romans 6:16, 1 John 5:18-20).

step_by_step · Nov 19, 2018

Serving Zion said:
Yes, I would agree with that. Con-sequence means "of a sequence", so it's a good word to use. If it were a perfect world (aka: everyone had holy spirit, no sin), then there would be no mental illness.

Mental illness is a brokenness of what God made. It is broken through the assault of the devil's work that is prevalent in the world, because the majority of the world is enslaved by sin (Romans 6:16, 1 John 5:18-20).

Okay, I do not disagree with that. Mental illness would not exist in a perfect world and I'm not arguing against it. You made several good points, most of which I agree with. But what about people like me and like my dad who were raised from birth in good Christian homes and committed their lives to Christ at young ages but still struggle with mental illness and have struggled since we were kids? Again, I know that mental illness is a product of a flawed world but the way your post was worded made it sound like it's a direct consequence of something the mentally ill person has done, some sort of sin they've committed whether that's listening to the devil's lies or what have you. My only quarrel with that line of thinking is that I was just a kid and can't imagine what could have happened when I was so young to lead my depression/anxiety issues if mental illness is a direct consequence of my actions. Is it a direct consequence of sin in the world? Yeah. But of a specific action or sin done by someone? I'm not so sure.

I don't know if that makes sense, I'm trying to articulate it the best I can haha

Second, I agree that sometimes Christians rely too much on secular diagnosis's but I don't think there's anything wrong with seeking medical help for an issue. There are Christian psychologists and I believe that psychology and Christianity can find a way to work in harmony. However, that's a completely different discussion and one that I don't want to get into here. While I see your side of that statement, I still believe that there's nothing wrong with medical assistance as long as you remember that your help truly comes from the Lord and no one else

paul becke · Nov 20, 2018

step_by_step said:
Yes, I agree. I've been told many times that depression is a sign of a lack of faith in God but it is not.
That's actually a good point that I previously didn't think of. Job especially went through absolute hell and he more than likely suffered a great of deal depression from it. And yet his faith in God never wavered!

I, too, knew a man of enormous faith, who was prone to episodes of tremendous depression, but while he would talk about it if you brought the subject up, you wouldn't know about it, otherwise. He had a lovely sense of humour, but when he was suffering, you could see the strain in his face.

Serving Zion · Nov 21, 2018

step_by_step said:
Okay, I do not disagree with that. Mental illness would not exist in a perfect world and I'm not arguing against it. You made several good points, most of which I agree with. But what about people like me and like my dad who were raised from birth in good Christian homes and committed their lives to Christ at young ages but still struggle with mental illness and have struggled since we were kids? Again, I know that mental illness is a product of a flawed world but the way your post was worded made it sound like it's a direct consequence of something the mentally ill person has done, some sort of sin they've committed whether that's listening to the devil's lies or what have you. My only quarrel with that line of thinking is that I was just a kid and can't imagine what could have happened when I was so young to lead my depression/anxiety issues if mental illness is a direct consequence of my actions. Is it a direct consequence of sin in the world? Yeah. But of a specific action or sin done by someone? I'm not so sure.

I don't know if that makes sense, I'm trying to articulate it the best I can haha

Second, I agree that sometimes Christians rely too much on secular diagnosis's but I don't think there's anything wrong with seeking medical help for an issue. There are Christian psychologists and I believe that psychology and Christianity can find a way to work in harmony. However, that's a completely different discussion and one that I don't want to get into here. While I see your side of that statement, I still believe that there's nothing wrong with medical assistance as long as you remember that your help truly comes from the Lord and no one else

The Lord is Word (John 1:1).

Word is speech: expression of the intention of the spirit, according to the knowledge and character of the person through whom it speaks.

So, I am saying that as a child, your mind is shaped by the word (whether the Word of God coming through the spirit, or the word of another coming through self-interest).

A child is born without any corruption in their thinking. That is why we put age restrictions on certain media (consider the purpose of that word! : "mediation" is a guided effort to bring two minds to agreement).

The corruption of thinking comes as the world teaches us to think in ways that are not godly. What you have described of your condition (that you have obviously described more to others than you have to us, so I am speculating a lot): .. you seem to not be comfortable with showing the world who you truly are. You present an image of yourself according to what you think is appropriate for the company, and sometimes mimic their personality so as to be liked.

If you wouldn't say I am wrong in that assessment, my analysis would show that your condition is rooted in a fear of being put down for who you truly are. You weren't born that way, is all I am saying, and I am further saying that if you had never seen a person put you down for who you are, then you wouldn't have any fear of being who you are. (You have to tell me if I have got the wrong idea though! .. this is the idea I got from what you told us in this thread).

The particular culture of the society in which a child grows, and especially the micro-cultures of the family and friends, has a huge impact on the way they think. For this reason, I read an article in the newspaper that shows an 18 year old who has just encountered for the first time, a realisation that he doesn't have to come home and be all macho and rude to his family, because for the first time he has just realised that men don't have to be that way. He was raised to think that's the way a man should be.

So the way we think comes about through our daily encounters with the world. Events and things that people say have the effect of triggering us to think. Sometimes there is an event of trauma or a word that confuses us, that we then have to think about heavily and solve the problem. As I reflected upon the way my thinking was formed in order to understand how it had become so wrong, that is what I found! .. I identified a series of things that people said, and the events in my life, and I saw the moments at which I made decisions to think in a specific way that caused my thinking to go forward with confidence on the path that later on, The Lord brought knowledge to me that likewise caused me to solve that problem and "repent" ("show penitence for", return with contrition).

.. So there is that ongoing battle for our minds in that way, between God's work "the spirit of truth" and the spirit that is operating in the world (Ephesians 2:2-3) .. that each is sowing seeds of word and events in our mind, through the agency that they possess.

So that's the nature of the mind. We have our way of thinking, and it isn't necessarily all "right".. but it is who we are. That can change whenever new information provides for a reconsideration of our way of thinking.

But we also can sometimes have a struggle against that change, if we have somehow become defensive of the way we think.. and I sense that maybe you're being tempted by that a little bit by my having used the expressions "sin" and "demonology".. that there is a meaning in those words that is different to you than it is to me, and that's not uncommon. Most Christians are raised to think that demon is a cuss word, that is only used to condemn a person. But I don't use it that way. I have learned that it's actually the reality of what happens when people choose to resist the knowledge of truth that God expects them to receive (1 John 4:-6).

A Christian psychiatrist is trying to join two opposing approaches to mental health, and most likely doesn't know it (although it isn't impossible). The only way to heal a mind is to change it's way of thinking - that means counselling to identify the cause of the problem, and to sow seeds of word that God can use, while also identifying the origin of the words that are contributing to the opposite way of thinking.

Mental Illness and Christianity

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