Sabbath was given to Israel and not observed by early Christians

fictitiousDinosaur said:

"But you are engaged in a bit of "creative writing" when you claim Peter was "first a Jew and then a Christian" as if Peter thought that Jewish concerns deleted or subverted the Gospel."

That is a ridiculous interpretation of what I wrote. I was speaking in order of time.

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Fine then I stand corrected - in that case Paul was also a "Jew first" and then "a Christian" at a later point in time... a "Jewish Christian".

fictitiousDinosaur said:

So how do SDA's build a doctrine of Sabbath observance when it was clearly intended for pre-Messianic Isreal?

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Why "pre" messianic? I know my SDA brothers and I disagree on whether the command is extended to gentile christians or not; but that is not the issue here. Sabbath observance is absolutely required of Jews of every generation.

Of course per Acts 15, Gentile believers are welcomed and encouraged to also observe. Partakers in observance also are partakers in the blessing.

fictitiousDinosaur said:

The discusssions of the 7th-Day Sabbath are always based on the 10 commandments found in Exodus 20 with the 4th commandment commemorating Creation. But always ignores the 2nd time 10 commandments are recorded in Deuteronomy 5 where Sabbath observance is commanded of Isreal to commemorate the Lord bringing them out of Egyptian bondage (Deuteronomy 5:15). Does this not imply that the Sabbath was an Israelite commandment? Mosaic Laws dealing with the Sabbath demanded death to the Sabbath-breaker. So how do SDA's build a doctrine of Sabbath observance when it was clearly intended for pre-Messianic Isreal? If the 4th commandent as recorded in Exodus is critical to SDA salvation, why is Sabbath observance requirement NEVER recorded in NT after Christ left the earth?

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Two versions of Sabbath. Why is that?

Not 2 versions, but 2 complimentary commands.

Sh’mor and zachor. Observe (keep) and remember the sabbath.

W2L said:

Two versions of Sabbath. Why is that?

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There is only one version---written by God Himself on stone. They were kept in the Ark. The Levitical laws, written by Moses as dictated by God, were kept outside the Ark. Moses was merely reiterating them, but the only true ones were in the Ark as stated in Ex. 20.

mmksparbud said:

There is only one version---written by God Himself on stone. They were kept in the Ark. The Levitical laws, written by Moses as dictated by God, were kept outside the Ark. Moses was merely reiterating them, but the only true ones were in the Ark as stated in Ex. 20.

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Yes but one sabbath was to remember Gods creation and the other was to remember God bringing the Israelites out of Egypt. Im a bit confused here.

W2L said:

Yes but one sabbath was to remember Gods creation and the other was to remember God bringing the Israelites out of Egypt. Im a bit confused here.

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The version in Deuteronomy did not offer as the reason the Sabbath must be observed the fact that God rested on the Sabbath, for the version of that seven day creation story had not yet been written. So this author states that the Sabbath is to be observed because the people of Israel must remember that they were once slaves in Egypt and even slaves must have a day of rest.

The three versions were written by different people over a time span of about 400 years and some of these authors might actually have been unaware of one or both of the other versions.

W2L said:

Yes but one sabbath was to remember Gods creation and the other was to remember God bringing the Israelites out of Egypt. Im a bit confused here.

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The one God wrote with His own finger on stone---permanent, and placed in the Ark--can't be changed except by God Himself. It was Jesus that wrote it. That is the one and only original one.
Moses was reminding them of the Exodus, and yes, they were given again the Sabbath---they had been in Egypt for over 400 years, they had to be brought back to God's leading---and yes, they were to remember they had been servants and God brought them out of Egypt. The original was setup by God for a memorial of creation. Jesus wrote it twice--Moses broke the first set and Jesus had to write them down again. It is both--for mankind it is a testament of God's creative power, for the Jew---also a reminder of their being servants in Egypt.

Deu 5:15 And remember that thou wast a servant in the land of Egypt, and that the LORD thy God brought thee out thence through a mighty hand and by a stretched out arm: therefore the LORD thy God commanded thee to keep the sabbath day.

They knew about the Sabbath before the commandments were given. The manna did not fall on the Sabbath. That came before Mt Zion.

mmksparbud said:

There is only one version---written by God Himself on stone. They were kept in the Ark. The Levitical laws, written by Moses as dictated by God, .

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True - but all of it is the "Word of God"

https://weekly.israelbiblecenter.com/jewish-priorities-of-jesus/

David > temple & priests > Sabbath

question - how did David eat the temple shewbread if Solomon built the temple?

W2L said:

Yes but one sabbath was to remember Gods creation and the other was to remember God bringing the Israelites out of Egypt. Im a bit confused here.

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Here is a good explanation:"Europe grappled with Martin Luther's appeal for a return to "the Bible, and the Bible only," the hearts of many of them were deeply stirred. The cry, sola scriptura, soon rang from their lips also, and they too determined to put aside tradition in favor of the Word of God.... Andreas Fischer and Oswald Glait,8 who asked whether Christians had any basis in sola scriptura for observing the first day of the week instead of the seventh, both ultimately died for their faith.

Fortunately for us, Luther sent theologians to dialog with Fischer and Glait. From their records we learn that Fischer and Glait insisted that Jesus nowhere asked His followers to keep holy the day on which He rose from the dead. They asked where any scriptural authority could be found for such a belief. Certainly the second- and third-century church fathers had never cited such a command from Christ, and Fischer and Glait affirmed that they couldn't find one either.

The Sabbath, said these Sabbatarians, was not to be confused with the types and symbols of the ceremonial law. It was not to be linked with circumcision and sacrifice. The Sabbath, they said, was sanctified by God as far back as Creation week; thus the Sabbath was made for man (Mark 2:27) before man sinned, before he needed a ceremonial system.

Further, Glait and Fischer emphasized that the seventh-day Sabbath was placed in the Ten Commandments, where it stands not as a typological ceremony prefiguring the future coming of Christ as Redeemer but as an appropriate memorial to work previously completed by Christ as Creator. According to the Bible, said these men, the Sabbath belongs to the unchangeable moral law.

And if Jesus nowhere asked His followers to change from the seventh to the first day, did He anywhere state the opposite, that they should not? In the Sermon on the Mount, Glait and Fischer observed, Jesus said, "Think not that I have come to abolish the law and the prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. For truly, I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, not an iota, not a dot, will pass from the law until all is accomplished" (Matt. 5:17, R.S.V.). But did His apostles change the day? Glait and Fischer pointed to the second chapter of the book of James, where an apostle says that if we break the law in any one point we break it all."....Sabbath and Sunday Observance in the Early Church - Ministry Magazine

Erik Nelson said:

question - how did David eat the temple shewbread if Solomon built the temple?

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Showbread was used in the tabernacle before the Temple was built; from Moses to Solomon.

fictitiousDinosaur said:

The discusssions of the 7th-Day Sabbath are always based on the 10 commandments found in Exodus 20 with the 4th commandment commemorating Creation. But always ignores the 2nd time 10 commandments are recorded in Deuteronomy 5 where Sabbath observance is commanded of Isreal to commemorate the Lord bringing them out of Egyptian bondage (Deuteronomy 5:15).

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1. Because in real life Deut 5 is not a rewrite of Exodus 20. Rather it is a reminder 40 years later to observe the Exodus 20 commands given. No new commands etched in stones in Deut 5.

2. Because Deut 5 does not say Sabbath is a memorial or commemorates the Exodus.

3. Because Ex 20 starts off with the commandments - such as "do not take God's name in vain" prefixed with this - "2 “I am the Lord your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of slavery." -- but does not mean that "only Jews should not take God's name in vain".

4. Because the New Covenant itself - in Jer 31:31-33 is "with the House of Israel and with the house of Judah" and is "unchanged" in that regard in Hebrews 8:6-13

NBB said:

If it was a salvation issue, there would be a mention in the letters or something.
But we get: ´if one esteems one day above the other, each one do according to your conscience' and 'nobody judge you about sabbath days and those things etc.'

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In regard to the annual holy days of Lev 23 we have the statement in Romans 14 "one man observes one day above another - while another observes them all".

At the same time Gal 4 condemns even one "observance" of a pagan holy day".

Only the Bible approved annual holy days of Lev 23 were accepted. And none of it deleted or downsized the Ten commandment unit that was still valid in Eph 6:2 where we find that the "fifth commandment is the first commandment with a promise" -- in that still-valid unit-of-ten.

Such that "every Sabbath" they were going to the synagogue to hear Gospel preaching and to worship in Acts 18:4.

No wonder Paul can preach "what matters is keeping the Commandments of God" 1 Cor 7:19

No wonder John says "the saints keep the Commandments of God AND their faith in Jesus" Rev 14:12

Sabbath keeping was and still is for those who adhere to the New Testament:

There remains, therefore, Sabbath keeping for the people of God.
- Hebrews 4:9

The Greek word for Sabbath keeping used here is σαββατισμός (sabbatismos) which means - a keeping of the Sabbath
Strong's Greek: 4520. σαββατισμός (sabbatismos) -- a sabbath rest

fictitiousDinosaur said:

The discusssions of the 7th-Day Sabbath are always based on the 10 commandments found in Exodus 20 with the 4th commandment commemorating Creation. But always ignores the 2nd time 10 commandments are recorded in Deuteronomy 5 where Sabbath observance is commanded of Isreal to commemorate the Lord bringing them out of Egyptian bondage (Deuteronomy 5:15). Does this not imply that the Sabbath was an Israelite commandment?

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1. Is 56:6-8 gentiles specificially singled out for Sabbath keeping
2. Is 66:23 "all mankind" specifically identified for Sabbath keeping
3. Mark 2:27 "Sabbath made for mankind" affirmed by Christ
4. Ex 20:11 Sabbath Commandment specifically points to Gen 2:1-3 for Sabbath origin in Eden
5. Deut 5 "chisels no new stone commands" but instead begins by calling the reader to remember and obey commandments given at Sinai.

fictitiousDinosaur said:

Mosaic Laws dealing with the Sabbath demanded death to the Sabbath-breaker. So how do SDA's build a doctrine of Sabbath observance when it was clearly intended for pre-Messianic Isreal? If the 4th commandment as recorded in Exodus is critical to SDA salvation, why is Sabbath observance requirement NEVER recorded in NT after Christ left the earth?

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1. No NT writer quotes the commandment "Do not take God's name in vain" Ex 20:7 - but this is not any sort of Bible "proof" that taking God's name in vain is no longer a sin.
2. Is 66:23 says that for all eternity after the cross in the new Earth - "from Sabbath to Sabbath shall ALL MANKIND come before Me to worship"
3. Almost Bible scholars in almost all Christian denominations affirm all 10 commandments as being included in the moral law of God in the NT. This one detail is not unique to SDAs.

Kaon said:

Should there be a difference between Hebrews and Christians?

In other words, what would you consider the faith of Peter?

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Gal 3:28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free, there is neither male nor female; for you are all one in Christ Jesus.

even so - in Rom 2 we have this...
10 glory, honor, and peace to everyone who does what is good, to the Jew first and also to the Greek. 11 For there is no partiality with God.