Proof: You were only forgiven of your past sins!

BCsenior said:

At the moment you were born-again …you were only forgiven of the sins you had committed up to that point in time!

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Yes. And Jesus then completely cleanses us:

Psalm 51:2
Wash me thoroughly from my iniquity, and cleanse me from my sin!

Matthew 23:26
You blind Pharisee! First clean the inside of the cup and the plate, that the outside also may be clean.

1 Corinthians 6:11
And such were some of you. But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God.

2 Corinthians 7:1
Since we have these promises, beloved, let us cleanse ourselves from every defilement of body and spirit, bringing holiness to completion in the fear of God.

Hebrews 9:14
How much more will the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without blemish to God, purify our conscience from dead works to serve the living God.

Psalm 51:7
Purge me with hyssop, and I shall be clean; wash me, and I shall be whiter than snow.

Ezekiel 36:25
I will sprinkle clean water on you, and you shall be clean from all your uncleannesses, and from all your idols I will cleanse you.

John 15:3
Already you are clean because of the word that I have spoken to you.

Romans 6:23
For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.

Psalm 51:5
Behold, I was brought forth in iniquity, and in sin did my mother conceive me.

James 4:7
Submit yourselves therefore to God. Resist the devil, and he will flee from you.

John 3:16-17
“For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him.

Matthew 5:48
You therefore must be perfect, as your heavenly Father is perfect.

1 John 1:9
If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from
all unrighteousness.

Romans 5:12
Therefore, just as sin came into the world through one man, and death through sin, and so death spread to all men because all sinned—

2 Corinthians 5:17
Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation. The old has passed away; behold, the new has come.

2 Corinthians 5:21
For our sake he made him to be sin who knew no sin, so that in him we might become the righteousness of God.

John 3:16
“For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life.

Psalm 51:10
Create in me a clean heart, O God, and renew a right spirit within me.

Hebrews 10:22
Let us draw near with a true heart in full assurance of faith, with our hearts sprinkled clean from an evil conscience and our bodies washed with pure water.

Acts 22:16
And now why do you wait? Rise and be baptized and wash away your sins, calling on his name.’

John 15:3
Already you are clean because of the word that I have spoken to you.

Acts 10:15
And the voice came to him again a second time, “What God has made clean, do not call common.”

Psalm 51:10
Create in me a clean heart, O God, and renew a right spirit within me.

James 4:8
Draw near to God, and he will draw near to you. Cleanse your hands, you sinners, and purify your hearts, you double-minded.

Ezekiel 36:25
I will sprinkle clean water on you, and you shall be clean from all your uncleannesses, and from all your idols I will cleanse you.

1 John 1:7
But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus his Son cleanses us from all sin.

Isaiah 1:16
Wash yourselves; make yourselves clean; remove the evil of your deeds from before my eyes; cease to do evil,

Romans 12:2
Do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewal of your mind, that by testing you may discern what is the will of God, what is good and acceptable and perfect.

Psalm 119:1-176
Blessed are those whose way is blameless, who walk in the law of the Lord! Blessed are those who keep his testimonies, who seek him with their whole heart, who also do no wrong, but walk in his ways! You have commanded your precepts to be kept diligently. Oh that my ways may be steadfast in keeping your statutes! ...

Leviticus 10:10
You are to distinguish between the holy and the common, and between the unclean and the clean,

SkyWriting said:

Yes. And Jesus then completely cleanses us:

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A list of verses without elaboration simply amounts to proof-texting. The cleansing blood of Jesus only applies to those believers whose lifestyle is marked by walking in the light (1 Jn 1:7). Those who don't walk in the light, walk in darkness (1 Jn 1:6). An unrepentant lifestyle marked by living according to the flesh results in spiritual death (Rom 8:13).

BCsenior said:

At the moment you were born-again …
you were only forgiven of the sins you had committed up to that point in time!

“For he who lacks these things is shortsighted, even to blindness, and has forgotten that he was cleansed from his OLD sins. Therefore, brethren, be even more diligent to make your call and election sure, for IF you do these things you will never stumble; for so an entrance will be supplied to you abundantly into the everlasting kingdom of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.”
(2 Peter 1:9-11, NKJV)
“OLD sins” is also in the KJV, RSV, NLT, AMP

“having forgotten his purification from his FORMER sins.” (2 Peter 1:9, NASB)
“FORMER sins” is also in the ESV

“forgetting that they have been cleansed from their PAST sins.” (2 Peter 1:9, NIV)
“PAST sins” is also in the HCSB

Now for some confirming NT passages …

Paul wrote this to the Corinthian church concerning his words of rebuke in 1 Corinthians that he had sent to them concerning some particular sin(s).
They really needed to be sorrowful and repent.

“… the pain (from his rebuke) caused you to repent and change your ways. It was the kind of sorrow God wants His people to have, so you were not harmed by us in any way. For the kind of sorrow God wants us to experience leads us away from sin and results in salvation. … worldly sorrow, which lacks repentance, results in spiritual (eternal) death.” (2 Corinthians 7:8-10, NLT)

“Yes, I am afraid that when I come again, God will humble me in your presence. And I will be grieved because many of you have not given up your old sins. You have not repented of your impurity, sexual immorality, and eagerness for lustful pleasure.” (2 Corinthians 12:21, NLT)

Peter is warning believers about God’s destruction of all ungodly and unholy people:
“Then he used the water to destroy the ancient (ungodly) world … the day of judgment, when ungodly people will be destroyed. … He is being patient for your sake. He does not want anyone to be destroyed (perish spiritually), but (he) wants everyone to repent. … what holy and godly lives you should live … (you) make every effort to be found living peaceful lives that are pure and blameless in his sight. … I am warning you ahead of time … Be on guard so that you will not be carried away by the errors …”
(2 Peter 3:6-17, NLT)

John gives the condition for the Lord to forgive believers’ present sins:
“But if we confess our sins to him, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all wickedness (unrighteousness).”
(1 John 1:9, NLT)
“This is an extremely important verse … all men need to be repeatedly purified from all unrighteousness – from all their sins … We must confess our sins and turn from them … We must also confess them with our actions … (John) is talking here about repentance … we must hate our sins and turn from them. This is true repentance.” (The Applied New Testament Commentary;
Dr. Thomas Hale)

2 verses later, John reminds believers to ask Jesus to plead our case before the Father:
“My dear children, I am writing this to you so that you will not sin. But if anyone does sin, we have an advocate who pleads our case before the Father. He is Jesus Christ, the one who is truly righteous.”
(1 John 2:1, NLT)

Believers are responsible for repenting of their sins after they are born-again! They have been given the Holy Spirit, a totally new nature, and God’s word. So, they have been enabled to be victorious overcomers over sin, the world, and the devil. They have no excuse for failing to do this.

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That's a good list but you forgot one:
"whom God put forward as a propitiation by his blood, to be received by faith. This was to show God’s righteousness, because in his divine forbearance he had passed over former sins." Rom 3:25
The false notion that the propitiation of all of our sins - past, present and future - were atoned for at the cross is completely dispelled by this verse. Only our past sins were passed over. Thus the ongoing need for an obedient and repentant lifestyle as you have correctly noted.

Oldmantook said:

That's a good list but you forgot one:
"whom God put forward as a propitiation by his blood, to be received by faith. This was to show God’s righteousness, because in his divine forbearance he had passed over former sins." Rom 3:25
The false notion that the propitiation of all of our sins - past, present and future - were atoned for at the cross is completely dispelled by this verse. Only our past sins were passed over. Thus the ongoing need for an obedient and repentant lifestyle as you have correctly noted.

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Wrong. The new birth is a change in direction. The new birth belongs to the sheep and the sheep don't follow Satan. When they stumble, Christ lifts them up and carries them on His shoulders. He leads His sheep in paths of righteousness.


Romans 8
26 Likewise the Spirit also helpeth our infirmities: for we know not what we should pray for as we ought: but the Spirit itself maketh intercession for us with groanings which cannot be uttered.27 And he that searcheth the hearts knoweth what is the mind of the Spirit, because he maketh intercession for the saints according to the will of God.
28 And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose. 29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to beconformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren. 30 Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.

Jesus gave us the Our Father........."Forgive us our trespasses....."

But if you say only past sins are forgiven, then doesnt that make us unclean if we ever sin after being cleaned? How can we be saved from sin, if we are only saved from past sins? So the moment you accept Jesus you are forgiven for the sins only before that time? Then what is to happen when you sin again? What is the point in only half of our sins being wiped away, that does not make us clean does it? I do not understand, And I really do not understand what you mean , could you tell me what you think? I do not mean to be stupid, if I am wrong I will gladly take correction.

I just do not get only past sins being rid of, I thought the whole point was that Jesus died for our sins so that we could have everlasting life and live with God forever , so would someone have to never ever sin again once they are saved? I believe that once you accept Christ , and confess and believe that He is the Son of God, and that He came into the flesh, into this world, and lived among us, and died for our sins on the cross, and was risen from the dead on the third day, and lives again, you are cleaned. Now sometimes you will sin, but you have to repent. But what is this talk of only past sins being forgiven as if Jesus cannot cover all sins? I just do not get what happens if someone sins again, if they received the Holy Spirit, is it taken away ? What are you saying happens. I do not agree with you but I am asking so that I may see your point , I will pray on it too.

Phoebe Ann said:

Wrong. The new birth is a change in direction. The new birth belongs to the sheep and the sheep don't follow Satan. When they stumble, Christ lifts them up and carries them on His shoulders. He leads His sheep in paths of righteousness.

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Romans 8
26 Likewise the Spirit also helpeth our infirmities: for we know not what we should pray for as we ought: but the Spirit itself maketh intercession for us with groanings which cannot be uttered.27 And he that searcheth the hearts knoweth what is the mind of the Spirit, because he maketh intercession for the saints according to the will of God.
28 And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose. 29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to beconformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren. 30 Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.

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Baloney. All sheep have a choice to follow or not to follow. Since you are fond of referring to sheep, I suggest you read what Jesus taught about the lost sheep in Lk 15.
Furthermore your citation of Rom 8:29 is faulty for supporting your false belief. The word for "called" in this verse is "kaleo." It is the same word used in Gal 1:6. Those Galatians were called/kaleo - yet they turned away to follow another gospel. Thus our being glorified in Rom 8:29 is not a guarantee upon conversion but is predicated upon our continued belief and obedience.

Oldmantook said:

A list of verses without elaboration simply amounts to proof-texting. The cleansing blood of Jesus only applies to those believers whose lifestyle is marked by walking in the light (1 Jn 1:7). Those who don't walk in the light, walk in darkness (1 Jn 1:6). An unrepentant lifestyle marked by living according to the flesh results in spiritual death (Rom 8:13).

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I think scripture speaks for itself. You lose that argument, big time.

the purpose of the atonement was to make a way for the sinner to have pardon for their sins against God through the sacrifice of Christ in shedding his blood to cover our sins.

therefore the original point is moot.

Oldmantook said:

Baloney. All sheep have a choice to follow or not to follow. Since you are fond of referring to sheep, I suggest you read what Jesus taught about the lost sheep in Lk 15.
Furthermore your citation of Rom 8:29 is faulty for supporting your false belief. The word for "called" in this verse is "kaleo." It is the same word used in Gal 1:6. Those Galatians were called/kaleo - yet they turned away to follow another gospel. Thus our being glorified in Rom 8:29 is not a guarantee upon conversion but is predicated upon our continued belief and obedience.

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Our faith was given to us by God. We belong to Him. We are delivered from the power of Satan and we aren't lost sheep because we know the voice of the Shepherd and don't know the voice of strangers. We obey Him because we love Him!

John 5
24 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.

Jesus came to save the sheep who are sinners like every human on earth. God gives the sheep new life. The sheep hear his voice because God gave them ears to hear.

John 10
22 And it was at Jerusalem the feast of the dedication, and it was winter. 23 And Jesus walked in the temple in Solomon's porch. 24 Then came the Jews round about him, and said unto him, How long dost thou make us to doubt? If thou be the Christ, tell us plainly. 25 Jesus answered them, I told you, and ye believed not: the works that I do in my Father's name, they bear witness of me.26 But ye believe not, because ye are not of my sheep, as I said unto you. 27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me: 28 And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand. 29 My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand. 30 I and my Father are one.

No one and nothing can take eternal life away from the sheep!

Oldmantook said:

That's a good list but you forgot one:
"whom God put forward as a propitiation by his blood, to be received by faith. This was to show God’s righteousness, because in his divine forbearance he had passed over former sins." Rom 3:25
The false notion that the propitiation of all of our sins - past, present and future - were atoned for at the cross is completely dispelled by this verse. Only our past sins were passed over. Thus the ongoing need for an obedient and repentant lifestyle as you have correctly noted.

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You might want to do a deeper study of that verse, even though your conclusion might be right Ro. 3;25 does not support it look at the NIV translation as an example: Ro.3:25
God presented Christ as a sacrifice of atonement, through the shedding of his blood—to be received by faith. He did this to demonstrate his righteousness, because in his forbearance he had left the sins committed beforehand unpunished—
The sins "before hand" are not your past sins, but sins prior to the cross being contrasted with sins after the cross which are "punished" (disciplined). These "sins" past over were sins committed by forgiven individuals repenting and seeking God's forgiveness. A lot more can be said in support of that interpretation.

Oldmantook said:

A list of verses without elaboration simply amounts to proof-texting. The cleansing blood of Jesus only applies to those believers whose lifestyle is marked by walking in the light (1 Jn 1:7). Those who don't walk in the light, walk in darkness (1 Jn 1:6). An unrepentant lifestyle marked by living according to the flesh results in spiritual death (Rom 8:13).

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Throughout 1John he is describing that which is characteristic of those born of God. Those who have been born of God walk enlightened. Those who don't have not been born of God. For "No one who is born of God will continue to sin, because God’s seed remains in him; he cannot go on sinning, because he has been born of God. This is how we know who the children of God are and who the children of the devil are: Anyone who does not do what is right is not a child of God; nor is anyone who does not love his brother." 1John 3:9,10

So rather than appending each verse with "in order to be saved", as salvation by works Christians typically do, John is describing the behavior of those who have been saved among the "Christian" community and distinguishing them from children of the devil among the Christian community by observing their characteristic behavior.

Likewise Rom 8:13 unregenerate Christians characteristically walk according to the sinful nature. They are still subject to eternal death. Those who have the Spirit are according to the Spirit and consequently walk according to the Spirit.

Notice Rom 8:9 "You, however, are controlled not by the sinful nature but by the Spirit, if the Spirit of God lives in you." NIV It's the same concept as 1John 3:9

Oldmantook said:

That's a good list but you forgot one:
"whom God put forward as a propitiation by his blood, to be received by faith. This was to show God’s righteousness, because in his divine forbearance he had passed over former sins." Rom 3:25
The false notion that the propitiation of all of our sins - past, present and future - were atoned for at the cross is completely dispelled by this verse. Only our past sins were passed over. Thus the ongoing need for an obedient and repentant lifestyle as you have correctly noted.

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Actually if you read the context he's saying "former" referring to Old Testament times. He's not referring to those under the New Covenant. The only thing you've done is to call into question your competence in interpreting scripture.

Those who have His Spirit belong to Jesus and love Him. They love and obey Him because He first loved us!

John said.. behold the lamb of God that TAKES AWAY the sins of the world. Blood of old only covered.. Christ took AWAY the sin.

And we REALLY need to understand GRACE does not take away sin.. its the BLOOD OF JESUS CHRIST. The blood... with out that.. there is nothing. There was a reason they would sprinkle the blood on everything and then the oil. We found favor... faith in Christ.. that died and rose.. the blood. Grace can save no one. One must believe. It ALL has to go together But the BLOOD! Christ said.. unless you drink my blood and eat my flesh you will NOT enter heaven.

For some.. the word makes it clear.. there is a price for sin in this world. That price ..the wages of that sin in this world is death. So.. Christian or not.. if you live by the flesh.. you will die in this world.. you will be rewarded for that sin.. you will get paid for that sin = death. So many do not understand this. To die for Christ is gain.. no sin there. Over come.. over come what? Christ over came the world.. so we can. That old wine skin.. could not hold the sweet sweet Holy Spirit.. you are SO much more then you know.

Paul talked to Jewish people that got saved.. then would sin again. They would try to go back and offer a sacrifice for that sin. Paul told them.. or really GOD did.. can Christ die again? He was not talking OLD sins.. can Christ die again? NO.. there is no more sacrifice for that sin. As we keep reading we understand how SOME would see this.. ooh does that mean I can SIN all I want? GOD FORBID! <---that desire? is NO LONGER in us. Live by the flesh you will die. Live.. walk in the spirit and .. you will live.

This is why we die daily to self to flesh. Why we RENEW our minds "And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God."

Why we MUST be in the word always "My son, attend to my words; incline thine ear unto my sayings Let them not depart from thine eyes; keep them in the midst of thine heart."

Love not the world, neither the things that are in the world. If any man love the world, the love of the Father is not in him. For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world. And the world passeth away, and the lust thereof: but he that doeth the will of God abideth for ever.

So we do what HE says not me not you... what HE said. He has words of life

ICONO'CLAST said:

All sins for all time were paid for and forgiven,for the believing ones

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A preposterous presumption!

Righttruth said:

A preposterous presumption!

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Righttruth said:

A preposterous presumption!

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You think that the Lord Jesus Christ covenant death on behalf of His people is preposterous presumption?? What are you think with such a statement?

Do you struggle to understand that when Jesus declared it is finished that He actually accomplished redemption on behalf of all the Father gave to Him.