We’re Ready to Rebuild the Third Temple

jgr · Nov 15, 2018

A little history for prospective temple rebuilders.

I'm stocked up on popcorn.

Sozomen (ca. A.D.375-447)
"Ecclesiastical History"
Book V, Chapter XXII

Though the emperor [Julian the Apostate] hated and opressed the Christians, he manifested benevolence and humanity towards the Jews. He wrote to the Jewish patriarchs and leaders, as well as to the people, requesting them to pray for him, and for the prosperity of the empire. In taking this step he was not actuated, I am convinced, by any respect for their religion; for he was aware that it is, so to speak, the mother of the Christian religion, and he knew that both religions rest upon the authority of the patriarchs and the prophets; but he thought to grieve the Christians by favoring the Jews, who are their most inveterate enemies. But perhaps he also calculated upon persuading the Jews to embrace paganism and sacrifices; for they were only acquainted with the mere letter of Scripture, and could not, like the Christians and a few of the wisest among the Hebrews, discern the hidden meaning.

Events proved that this was his real motive; for he sent for some of the chiefs of the race and exhorted them to return to the observance of the laws of Moses and the customs of their fathers. On their replying that because the temple in Jerusalem was overturned, it was neither lawful nor ancestral to do this in another place than the metropolis out of which they had been cast, he gave them public money, commanded them to rebuild the temple, and to practice the cult similar to that of their ancestors, by sacrificing after the ancient way. The Jews entered upon the undertaking, without reflecting that, according to the prediction of the holy prophets, it could not be accomplished. They sought for the most skillful artisans, collected materials, cleared the ground, and entered so earnestly upon the task, that even the women carried heaps of earth, and brought their necklaces and other female ornaments towards defraying the expense. The emperor, the other pagans, and all the Jews, regarded every other undertaking as secondary in importance to this. Although the pagans were not well-disposed towards the Jews, yet they assisted them in this enterprise, because they reckoned upon its ultimate success, and hoped by this means to falsify the prophecies of Christ. Besides this motive, the Jews themselves were impelled by the consideration that the time had arrived for rebuilding their temple. When they had removed the ruins of the former building, they dug up the ground and cleared away its foundation; it is said that on the following day when they were about to lay the first foundation, a great earthquake occurred, and by the violent agitation of the earth, stones were thrown up from the depths, by which those of the Jews who were engaged in the work were wounded, as likewise those who were merely looking on. The houses and public porticos, near the site of the temple, in which they had diverted themselves, were suddenly thrown down; many were caught thereby, some perished immediately, others were found half dead and mutilated of hands or legs, others were injured in other parts of the body. When God caused the earthquake to cease, the workmen who survived again returned to their task, partly because such was the edict of the emperor, and partly because they were themselves interested in the undertaking. Men often, in endeavoring to gratify their own passions, seek what is injurious to them, reject what would be truly advantageous, and are deluded-by the idea that nothing is really useful except what is agreeable to them. When once led astray by this error, they are no longer able to act in a manner conducive to their own interests, or to take warning by the calamities which are visited upon them.

The Jews, I believe, were just in this state; for, instead of regarding this unexpected earthquake as a manifest indication that God was opposed to the re-erection of their temple, they proceeded to recommence the work. But all parties relate, that they had scarcely returned to the undertaking, when fire burst suddenly from the foundations of the temple, and consumed several of the workmen.

This fact is fearlessly stated, and believed by all; the only discrepancy in the narrative is that some maintain that flame burst from the interior of the temple, as the workmen were striving to force an entrance, while others say that the fire proceeded directly from the earth. In whichever way the phenomenon might have occurred, it is equally wonderful. A more tangible and still more extraordinary prodigy ensued; suddenly the sign of the cross appeared spontaneously on the garments of the persons engaged in the undertaking. These crosses were disposed like stars, and appeared the work of art. Many were hence led to confess that Christ is God, and that the rebuilding of the temple was not pleasing to Him; others presented themselves in the church, were initiated, and besought Christ, with hymns and supplications, to pardon their transgression. If any one does not feel disposed to believe my narrative, let him go and be convinced by those who heard the facts I have related from the eyewitnesses of them, for they are still alive. Let him inquire, also, of the Jews and pagans who left the work in an incomplete state, or who, to speak more accurately, were able to commence it.

The Gryphon · Nov 15, 2018

NeedyFollower said:
There were and are many anti-christ . THE anti-christ may not even be an individual any more than Jacob ( Israel ) is an individual . Maybe there is an anti-body of Christ . The man of sin sitting in the temple as God may be nothing more than humanism which is present in and out of the churches ..Man as God .

Oh, most definitely believe he is an individual due to all the scriptures that describe him and what he will do in the final years leading up to the Second Coming of Jesus and the events that are a result of that.

Bible2+ · Nov 16, 2018

jgr said in post #158:

Here is genetic Israel today.
Its DNA is in every person on the planet. Most of the sources below are from the Jewish community itself.
How will God distinguish?
As He always has.
By faith and obedience alone.
Trust and obey.
No other way.

There is no other way to salvation from hell than through belief in Jesus Christ (John 14:6, John 3:36, Acts 4:12), but note that not everyone is a Jew (Matthew 10:5-7, Romans 1:16, Romans 11:25-31). And both believing Jews and believing Gentiles are saved by Jesus Christ (1 Corinthians 12:13, Romans 9:24, Romans 3:29-30).

*******

jgr quoted Sozomen in post #161:

[Re: An attempt to build a third Jewish temple in the 4th century AD]

The Jews entered upon the undertaking, without reflecting that, according to the prediction of the holy prophets, it could not be accomplished.

Note that no Biblical prediction forbids a third Jewish temple.

jgr quoted Sozomen in post #161:

Although the pagans were not well-disposed towards the Jews, yet they assisted them in this enterprise, because they reckoned upon its ultimate success, and hoped by this means to falsify the prophecies of Christ.

Note that no Biblical prophecy of Christ will be falsified by the third Jewish temple.

jgr quoted Sozomen in post #161:

Besides this motive, the Jews themselves were impelled by the consideration that the time had arrived for rebuilding their temple.

Clearly, it was not the time. But the time will come in our future, for Revelation 11:1-2, Matthew 24:15, Daniel 11:31,36, and 2 Thessalonians 2:4 require that there will be a third Jewish temple in the earthly Jerusalem during the future Tribulation of Revelation chapters 6 to 18 and Matthew 24.

jgr quoted Sozomen in post #161:

When they had removed the ruins of the former building, they dug up the ground and cleared away its foundation; it is said that on the following day when they were about to lay the first foundation, a great earthquake occurred . . .

Note that there was also a great earthquake in 1927 in which "the death toll in Jerusalem included more than 130 people and around 450 were injured. About 300 houses collapsed or were severely damaged to the point of not being usable. The earthquake also caused heavy damage to the domes of the Church of the Holy Sepulchre and the al-Aqsa Mosque" ( 1927 Jericho earthquake - Wikipedia ).

"The Jerusalem municipality is installing the country's most advanced network of sensors to warn of potential earthquakes"; "local geologists have warned that the region is due for a major earthquake" ( Earthquake Sensors Installed in Jerusalem Schools ).

Near the start of the future Tribulation of Revelation chapters 6 to 18 and Matthew 24, there could be a series of major earthquakes in Jerusalem which could damage the Muslim structures on the Temple Mount so badly that the ultra-Orthodox Jews in Israel could see it as a sign from God that the time has come for them to completely destroy these structures (or remove their rubble) in order to build a third Jewish temple there.

Bible2+ · Nov 16, 2018

NeedyFollower said in post #159:

If the third temple has already been built ( I dwell in a temple not made by hands ) though the builders rejected the corner stone , then maybe a false messiah ...a false Jesus is already leading them

Note that the third Jewish temple of Revelation 11:1-2, Matthew 24:15, Daniel 11:31,36, and 2 Thessalonians 2:4 has not been built yet.

Regarding temples not made by hands, see the "Acts 7:48" part of post #99 above.

Regarding a false Messiah being a false Jesus, note that a false Messiah does not have to claim to be Jesus. For example, antichrists deny that Jesus is the Messiah/Christ (1 John 2:22).

Regarding a false Messiah already leading "them", assuming that you mean the religious Jews in Israel, this is not yet the case, but it will become the case in the future.

For in Daniel 9:26 the original Hebrew word (H3772) translated as "cut off" can refer to when a peace treaty/covenant is "made" (Genesis 21:27). The first century AD fulfillment of Daniel 9:26a was at the Crucifixion, when the true Messiah, Jesus, made the New Covenant (Matthew 26:28, Hebrews 9:15-17). But a future fulfillment of Daniel 9:26a will be when the Antichrist makes a peace treaty, which will be a fulfillment of the covenant in Daniel 9:27 and the league in Daniel 11:23, with a future, ultra-Orthodox Jewish false "Messiah" in Jerusalem, after he and his followers are militarily defeated by the Antichrist (Daniel 11:22-23). So this future fulfillment of Daniel 9:26a can refer to this false Messiah being "cut off" in the sense of being "covenanted", peace-treatied.

This treaty will allow this false "Messiah" and his followers to keep a third Jewish temple which they will have built on Jerusalem's Temple Mount (after they and/or great earthquakes have destroyed the Muslim structures there), and to (mistakenly) continue to perform the daily Mosaic animal sacrifices in front of the temple for at least seven years (Daniel 9:27a), so long as they give up the outer court of the temple (Revelation 11:2a) to the Muslims so that they can rebuild the (by that time destroyed) Al Aqsa Mosque on the southern end of the Temple Mount and resume worship there. After "cutting" this peace treaty (Daniel 9:26a), the future Antichrist could appear before the "many" (Daniel 9:27) nations represented at the U.N. General Assembly, and "confirm" (Daniel 9:27) that for at least seven years he will keep this treaty with the ultra-Orthodox Jews in Jerusalem, using this as purported proof to the world that he is (in his words) "a man of peace, and no Hitler".

In Daniel 9:27, "he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease" refers to when, only some 3.5 years after making the peace treaty of Daniel 9:26a,27a and Daniel 11:23a, the future Antichrist will break the treaty, attack the third temple, stop the daily Mosaic animal sacrifices, place the abomination of desolation (possibly a standing, android image of the Antichrist) in the holy place (the inner sanctum) of the temple (Daniel 9:27b, Daniel 11:31, Matthew 24:15), and then sit himself (at least one time) in the temple and proclaim himself God (2 Thessalonians 2:4, Daniel 11:36). Thus could begin the Antichrist's literal, 3.5-year Luciferian (Satanic) worldwide reign of terror (Revelation 13:4-18, Revelation 12:9; 2 Thessalonians 2:9).

*******

NeedyFollower said in post #160:

There were and are many anti-christ .

That's right.

For any person is an antichrist who denies that Jesus of Nazareth is the Christ (1 John 2:22), or denies that Jesus is the human/divine Son of God (1 John 2:22b), or denies that Christ is in the flesh (2 John 1:7). The spirit of antichrist which will animate the future Antichrist has been working since the first century AD (1 John 4:3; 2 Thessalonians 2:7a) animating many antichrists since that time (2 John 1:7).

NeedyFollower said in post #160:

THE anti-christ may not even be an individual any more than Jacob ( Israel ) is an individual .

Note that the existence of many antichrists (1 John 2:18) does not contradict that there will be an individual man (2 Thessalonians 2:3-4,9, Revelation 13:4-18) who is commonly called the Antichrist; just as on the side of good, the existence of many sons of God (John 1:12) does not contradict that there is an individual man, Jesus Christ of Nazareth, who is the Son of God (John 20:31).

Also, the idea of the individual-man Antichrist does not have to be explicitly referred to in the Bible as "the Antichrist" for it to be true and supported by the Bible; just as, for example, the idea of the Trinity does not have to be explicitly referred to in the Bible as "the Trinity" for it to be true and supported by the Bible (e.g. Matthew 28:19, John 1:1,14, Acts 5:3-4).

The man commonly called the Antichrist will be the fulfillment of the individual "man of sin" (2 Thessalonians 2:3) who will sit (at least one time) in a future, third Jewish temple building in Jerusalem and proclaim himself God (2 Thessalonians 2:4, Daniel 11:36). He will fulfill the individual "man" aspect of the "beast" who will come (Revelation 13:18) and bring the world into the conscious and open worship of Lucifer (Satan, the dragon) and himself (Revelation 13:4,8, Revelation 12:9). He will rule the earth for 3.5 literal years (Revelation 13:5-10, Daniel 7:25, Daniel 12:7) and will have a miracle-working False Prophet (Revelation 19:20, Revelation 16:13) who by amazing, Satanic miracles (2 Thessalonians 2:9b), such as calling fire down from heaven (Revelation 13:13), will deceive the people of the world into worshipping a speaking (possibly an android) image of the Antichrist (Revelation 13:15) and receiving a mark of the Antichrist's name or gematrial name-number (666) on their right hand or forehead (Revelation 13:16-18). The Antichrist and his False Prophet will be ultimately cast into the lake of fire at Jesus Christ's future, Second Coming (Revelation 19:20), while at that time Satan will be bound in the Bottomless Pit for 1,000 years (Revelation 20:1-3).

The idea of a future, individual-man Antichrist was correctly recognized in the Bible by the Church from early on. Irenaeus (born c. 140 AD) used the term: "speaking of Antichrist, [Paul] says, 'who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped'" (Against Heresies 3:6:5; 2 Thessalonians 2:4); "...by means of the events which shall occur in the time of Antichrist is it shown that he, being an apostate and a robber, is anxious to be adored as God" (Against Heresies 5:25:1; 2 Thessalonians 2:4, Daniel 11:36, Revelation 13:8); "...when this Antichrist shall have devastated all things in this world, he will reign for three years and six months, and sit in the temple at Jerusalem" (Against Heresies 5:30:4b; Revelation 13:5; 2 Thessalonians 2:4, Daniel 7:25, Daniel 12:7); "...the number of the name of the beast ... the name of Antichrist" (Against Heresies 5:30:1; Revelation 13:17c-18).

The gematrial numerical values of the letters in the Antichrist's personal name will add up to six hundred and sixty-six (Revelation 13:17c-18).

NeedyFollower said in post #160:

The man of sin sitting in the temple as God may be nothing more than humanism which is present in and out of the churches ..

The Antichrist will fulfill 2 Thessalonians 2:4 after he by force takes control of a future, third Jewish temple in Jerusalem, stops the daily Mosaic animal sacrifices which the ultra-Orthodox Jews will have restarted in front of it, and has the abomination of desolation (possibly a standing, android image of the Antichrist) set up in the holy place (the inner sanctum) of the temple (Daniel 11:31,36, Matthew 24:15).

The Antichrist could then make quite a show of his sitting himself in the temple and declaring himself God (2 Thessalonians 2:4, Daniel 11:36,31). In a television and internet spectacle which will be seen live by the world, he could first be shown entering the temple's most holy place in magnificent golden robes. He could then step up to the Ark of the Covenant (which could have been discovered, and placed in the temple by the Jews) and lift the Mercy Seat off of the Ark, showing it to be empty. He could then look into the camera and say: "Where is YHWH? He is not here! He is a distant fraud! His power on this earth is as hollow as this empty Ark!" (The Antichrist will utterly revile YHWH: Revelation 13:6, Daniel 11:36.)

Then the Antichrist could raise the Mercy Seat high above his head only to suddenly smash it down violently to the ground, breaking it into pieces. The piped-in sound of crowds roaring with approval could then be heard in the background. Then the Antichrist could place his hands on the Ark and stare into the camera: "WE can do better than this". He could then knock over the Ark and stamp it with his foot, bashing in its side. Two of the Antichrist's followers in robes could then quickly come in and clear away the rubble of the Mercy Seat and the Ark, while four strong men in robes carry into the temple's most holy place a magnificent golden throne and place it right where the Ark had been before. The men could then bow down and motion with their arms for the Antichrist to sit on the throne. He could then grandly take his seat upon it.

Glorious symphonic music could then swell as the sound of crowds roaring with approval increases. Then the Antichrist's False Prophet (of Revelation 19:20) (who could be an apostate pope) could enter the temple's most holy place and approach the Antichrist carrying a majestic golden crown encrusted with large diamonds and all kinds of precious stones. The Antichrist could then take the crown from the pope's outstretched hands. And as the Antichrist places the crown on his own head, a camera could slowly zoom in on his face as he says in a deep voice: "I AM THAT I AM. I AM YOUR GOD. WORSHIP ME, ALL YE NATIONS OF THE EARTH!"

(Compare what Revelation 13:8, Daniel 11:36, and 2 Thessalonians 2:4 say)

jgr · Nov 16, 2018

Bible2+ said:
note that not everyone is a Jew

You are welcome to attempt to disprove the presented scientific evidence.

Today, as a result of over 3,000 years of racial dispersion and diffusion since Jacob, every person on earth possesses some amount of Israelitish DNA, qualifying everyone as a genetic Israelite.

Thus confirming genetics' meaninglessness today as a covenant criterion.

And confirmed in its meaninglessness as a covenant criterion since the beginning of covenant history (Genesis 17:12).

God slew genetic Israelites who were guilty of unfaithfulness and disobedience by the thousands under His old covenant.

God's ageless covenant criteria have only ever been two molecules of spiritual DNA.

Faith and obedience.

Bible2+ said:
Note that no Biblical prediction forbids a third Jewish temple.

Note that no Biblical prophecy of Christ will be falsified by the third Jewish temple.

Sozomen obviously possessed Scriptural insights regarding the temple. The accuracy of those insights was confirmed by the unmistakable outpouring of divine wrath and judgment, and the resulting destructive and tragic consequences.

Bible2+ said:
Clearly, it was not the time. But the time will come in our future

It was not the time then. The Jews thought it was. If they were to decide upon a future time, they would be wrong again.

But there will be no future time. Here's what Sozomen unquestionably realized. He (and other corroborating historians) were not wrong:

Acts 7
48 Howbeit the most High dwelleth not in temples made with hands; as saith the prophet,
49 Heaven is my throne, and earth is my footstool: what house will ye build me? saith the Lord: or what is the place of my rest?

1 Corinthians 3
16 Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you?
17 If any man defile the temple of God, him shall God destroy; for the temple of God is holy, which temple ye are.

Bible2+ said:
Note that there was also a great earthquake in 1927 in which "the death toll in Jerusalem included more than 130 people and around 450 were injured. About 300 houses collapsed or were severely damaged to the point of not being usable. The earthquake also caused heavy damage to the domes of the Church of the Holy Sepulchre and the al-Aqsa Mosque" ( 1927 Jericho earthquake - Wikipedia ).

"The Jerusalem municipality is installing the country's most advanced network of sensors to warn of potential earthquakes"; "local geologists have warned that the region is due for a major earthquake" ( Earthquake Sensors Installed in Jerusalem Schools ).

What's there to note?

The Church of the Holy Sepulchre is not a rebuilt Jewish temple.
The al-Aqsa Mosque is not a rebuilt Jewish temple.
The Church of the Holy Sepulchre was not being rebuilt in 1927 AD.
The al-Aqsa Mosque was not being rebuilt in 1927 AD.
The Church of the Holy Sepulchre was not completely destroyed in 1927.
The al-Aqsa Mosque was not completely destroyed in 1927.
Fire did not suddenly burst from the foundations of the Church of the Holy Sepulchre and consume workmen in 1927.
Fire did not suddenly burst from the foundations of the al-Aqsa Mosque and consume workmen in 1927.
The sign of the cross did not suddenly appear spontaneously on the garments of anyone at the Church of the Holy Sepulchre in 1927.
The sign of the cross did not suddenly appear spontaneously on the garments of anyone at the al-Aqsa Mosque in 1927.

Nor was the earthquake the first supernatural warning sign:

Theodoret (A.D. 397-451)
"Ecclesiastical History"
Book III, Chapter XV

"When they had begun to dig and to carry out the earth a vast multitude of them went on with the work all day, but by night the earth which had been carried away shifted back from the ravine of its own accord. They destroyed moreover the remains of the former construction, with the intention of building everything up afresh; but when they had got together thousands of bushels of chalk and lime, of a sudden a violent gale blew, and storms, tempests and whirlwinds scattered everything far and wide. They still went on in their madness, nor were they brought to their senses by the divine longsuffering. Then first came a great earthquake, fit to strike terror into the hearts of men quite ignorant of God's dealings; and, when still they were not awed, fire running from the excavated foundations burnt up most of the diggers, and put the rest to flight. Moreover when a large number of men were sleeping at night in an adjacent building it suddenly fell down, roof and all, and crushed the whole of them. On that night and also on the following night the sign of the cross of salvation was seen brightly shining in the sky, and the very garments of the Jews were filled with crosses, not bright but black. When God's enemies saw these things, in terror at the heaven-sent plagues they fled, and made their way home, confessing the Godhead of Him who had been crucified by their fathers. Julian heard of these events, for they were repeated by every one.But like Pharaoh he hardened his heart."

The earthquake and all other preceding and following events of that time were unmistakable manifestations of divine wrath.

Upon "God's enemies".

Those who attempted to rebuild the temple.

Any who will attempt to rebuild the temple.

Bible2+ · Nov 16, 2018

jgr said in post #165:

Today, as a result of over 3,000 years of racial dispersion and diffusion since Jacob, every person on earth possesses some amount of Israelitish DNA, qualifying everyone as a genetic Israelite.

Note that God's distinction between Jews and Gentiles continues today because it will continue into the future (Romans 11:25-26). See the "Romans 11:26" part of #157 above. And see the "Romans 11:25" part of post #140 above.

jgr said in post #165:

Sozomen obviously possessed Scriptural insights regarding the temple.

Can you give an example?

jgr said in post #165:

Acts 7
48 Howbeit the most High dwelleth not in temples made with hands; as saith the prophet,
49 Heaven is my throne, and earth is my footstool: what house will ye build me? saith the Lord: or what is the place of my rest?

See the "Acts 7:48" part of post #99 above.

jgr said in post #165:

1 Corinthians 3
16 Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you?
17 If any man defile the temple of God, him shall God destroy; for the temple of God is holy, which temple ye are.

See the "Ephesians 2:21" part of post #36 above.

jgr said in post #165:

[Re: A Jerusalem earthquake in 1927]

What's there to note?

That a future Jerusalem earthquake could destroy the Muslim structures on the Temple Mount, helping to open the way for the rebuilding of the third Jewish temple, which is referred to in Revelation 11:1-2, Matthew 24:15, Daniel 11:31,36, and 2 Thessalonians 2:4.

jgr · Nov 17, 2018

Bible2+ said:
Note that God's distinction between Jews and Gentiles continues today because it will continue into the future (Romans 11:25-26). See the "Romans 11:26" part of #157 above. And see the "Romans 11:25" part of post #140 above.

God is completely aware of genetics, mathematics, and all science, for He is the Creator of all of it. And He is completely aware of the ubiquity of physically genetic Israel, and that it completely confirms the declarations of Scripture. To wit, that it cannot be ubiquitous physically genetic Israel that will be saved, but rather nonubiquitous spiritually genetic Israel -- the believing beloved elect foreknown remnant, His people whom He has not cast away, the children of God not the children of the flesh, the children of the promise counted for the seed, the “all Israel” who are not “of Israel”, the recipients of His gifts and calling. (Romans 9:6-8, 27; 11:1-5, 26-29).

In short, His children possessing the spiritual DNA of faith and obedience.

Bible2+ said:
That a future Jerusalem earthquake could destroy the Muslim structures on the Temple Mount, helping to open the way for the rebuilding of the third Jewish temple, which is referred to in Revelation 11:1-2, Matthew 24:15, Daniel 11:31,36, and 2 Thessalonians 2:4.

Everyone should pray fervently that the Muslim structures remain, for if they are destroyed, and a temple rebuild is attempted, the consequent divine fury and devastation which God unleashes will eclipse that of any preceding earthquake's destruction.

As it did in 363 AD.

NeedyFollower · Nov 17, 2018

The Gryphon said:
Oh, most definitely believe he is an individual due to all the scriptures that describe him and what he will do in the final years leading up to the Second Coming of Jesus and the events that are a result of that.

Well brother ...we of course do not know anything until after it happens ...we believe many things which are verified by eyewitnesses who gave all for their witness. The scribes , pharisees and those most familiar with the Torah , never recognized their own Messiah . So the revelations in Daniel , Thessalonians and Revelation are not necessarily talking about a person any more than Jezebel is actually a woman named Jezebel in Christ warnings in revelations to the saved( the churches ) to repent . The Jews had a mind set regarding their expectations of the messiah and so their readings of the scriptures already discounted the TRUTH . Likewise , our many teachings regarding THE Anti-Christ (the left behind series televised-prophecies and seminary taught beliefs) , only allow us to read scriptures in a certain way and may hinder our understanding. For example , Christians in the first century ( even Paul ) expected Christ back in their day initially until Paul understood that a great falling away would occur first . So did Paul really believe the temple would be destroyed and then rebuilt in their life time when Jews were not even allowed in Jerusalem after 70 ad ? Of course not . Paul along with Stephen knew that we are the temple of God ....that IS the mystery . But man has made himself God ...denying God through his actions and exalting himself so that he is worshipped ..do you not see this is true ...even among believers ? Worship is not meant for man ...even if they be "big name" christians , ball players , actors , musicians , etc. We should know this but we do not . Even the women we are supposed to love , we do not ...WE want to be loved by them ( self love ) so as according to scripture . He regarded not the love of women .

NeedyFollower · Nov 17, 2018

jgr said:
God is completely aware of genetics, mathematics, and all science, for He is the Creator of all of it. And He is completely aware of the ubiquity of physically genetic Israel, and that it completely confirms the declarations of Scripture. To wit, that it cannot be ubiquitous physically genetic Israel that will be saved, but rather nonubiquitous spiritually genetic Israel -- the believing beloved elect foreknown remnant, His people whom He has not cast away, the children of God not the children of the flesh, the children of the promise counted for the seed, the “all Israel” who are not “of Israel”, the recipients of His gifts and calling. (Romans 9:6-8, 27; 11:1-5, 26-29).

In short, His children possessing the spiritual DNA of faith and obedience.

Everyone should pray fervently that the Muslim structures remain, for if they are destroyed, and a temple rebuild is attempted, the consequent divine fury and devastation which God unleashes will eclipse that of any preceding earthquake's destruction.

As it did in 363 AD.

Yes brother ...to rebuild a man made temple and despise God's temple and then to offer the blood of animals ??? What a sacrilege this should be to any devout follower of Jesus Christ ...to even hope or support such a thing is unthinkable . Political Israel was founded by many athistic Jews and just like america and many if not all earthly nations , it was built with bloodshed . The promised land of the old covenant ( broken by Israel according to God's will ) has been replaced by a much better eternal covenant and a far superior promised land ...It is the eternal promised land and includes the universe ..not a little piece of dirt ..How American's religious and political leaders must despise Israel to short change them with the promise of the old covenant . In the parable of the prodigal son , the Father tells the elder son ..." All that I have has always been yours .." Do we not understand this ? Thank you brother for your input ...we do NOT want another inanimate temple of stone .

Bible2+ · Nov 18, 2018

jgr said in post #167:

[Re: God]

He is completely aware of the ubiquity of physically genetic Israel . . .

What do you base that on?

That is, how was a genetic sample from Jacob obtained?

And how was it determined to be from Jacob and not from someone else?

Also, imagine if someone is 1/1,024th American Indian. Are you really going to say that he is an American Indian, when he is 99.9% non-American Indian?

Similarly, are you going to say that someone is a Jew when he is 99.9% non-Jewish?

Also, even though all nations have always been from one blood (Acts 17:26), note that God's distinction between Jews and Gentiles continues today because it will continue in the future (Romans 11:25-29).

For example, Gentiles are distinguished from Jews in the description of the future Tribulation of Revelation chapters 6 to 18 and Matthew 24 (Revelation 11:2).

jgr said in post #167:

. . . and that it completely confirms the declarations of Scripture.

Note that no scripture refers to a ubiquity of physically genetic Israel.

jgr said in post #167:

. . . it cannot be ubiquitous physically genetic Israel that will be saved, but rather nonubiquitous spiritually genetic Israel --

Note that spiritual Israel includes both elect genetic Israelites and elect genetic Gentiles (1 Corinthians 12:13, Romans 9:24). See also post #156 above.

jgr said in post #167:

[Re: The Temple Mount]

Everyone should pray fervently that the Muslim structures remain, for if they are destroyed, and a temple rebuild is attempted, the consequent divine fury and devastation which God unleashes will eclipse that of any preceding earthquake's destruction.

As it did in 363 AD.

What do you base that on?

For 363 AD was just not the time for the third Jewish temple. But God subsequently allowed the Muslims to build the Dome of the Rock and the Al Aqsa Mosque on His holy Temple Mount, even though the Muslims are His enemies. He allowed this so that these structures could serve as placeholders until the time comes for the third Jewish temple. God may even cause the future destruction of these Muslim structures through a large earthquake in order to help clear the way for the third Jewish temple, which is referred to in Revelation 11:1-2, Matthew 24:15, Daniel 11:31,36, and 2 Thessalonians 2:4.

Bible2+ · Nov 18, 2018

NeedyFollower said in post #168:

...we of course do not know anything until after it happens ...

What do you base that on?

For while the understanding of the Old Testament prophecies regarding Jesus Christ's suffering and death for our sins (Isaiah 53; 1 Corinthians 15:3) on the Cross (Psalms 22), and His rising physically from the dead (Psalms 16:10, Acts 2:31) on the third day (Hoses 6:2; 1 Corinthians 15:4, Colossians 2:12), was not given to the apostles of Jesus until after they had witnessed the fulfillment of these prophecies (Luke 24:45-48), this does not contradict that other prophecies can be understood before they are fulfilled (e.g. Matthew 2:4-6).

Luke 24:45-48 happened before the Pentecost in Acts 2, and was made possible by the apostles of Jesus Christ receiving God's Holy Spirit in some measure before that Pentecost (John 20:22). Non-Christians often cannot understand the Spirit's teachings, including Biblical prophecy, because they have not received the Spirit like Christians have (1 Corinthians 2:11-16). But even Christians retain their free will, and so can wrongly employ it to quench the Spirit (1 Thessalonians 5:19) within them and reject what He is trying to tell them (either directly or through other Christians) regarding how to understand Biblical prophecies. It is possible for Christians to become united in what they believe (1 Corinthians 1:10), if they will submit their will to the Spirit, and to what He teaches in the Bible (2 Timothy 4:2-4).

Also, just as Jesus Christ's Second Coming in Revelation 19:7 to 20:3 has always been relevant to Christians, despite the fact that it has not yet been fulfilled, but will be fulfilled almost entirely literally in our future, so the highly detailed and chronological events of the just-preceding Tribulation in Revelation chapters 6 to 18, and the subsequent Millennium and other events in Revelation chapters 20 to 22, have always been relevant to Christians despite the fact that they have not yet been fulfilled, but will be fulfilled almost entirely literally in our future.

To put it another way, the future fulfillment of the Tribulation of Revelation chapters 6 to 18 and Matthew 24, before Jesus Christ returns immediately after the Tribulation (Matthew 24:29-31, Revelation 19:7 to 20:6), should be relevant to every Christian regardless of whether or not he thinks that he will still be alive to go through the Tribulation; just as, for example, the past fulfillment of Genesis chapters 1 to 11 should be relevant to every Christian regardless of him not being alive at that time to experience it. For all parts of the Bible, regarding all times, are profitable to all Christians of all times (2 Timothy 3:16, Matthew 4:4).

Also, the future fulfillment of Revelation chapters 6 to 18 and Matthew 24 should be especially relevant to every Christian alive today. For the main reason that the Bible gives clear warning ahead of time about everything that Christians alive at the time of the Tribulation will have to face (Mark 13:23, Revelation chapters 6 to 18, Revelation 1:1, Revelation 22:16), before Jesus Christ returns immediately after the Tribulation (Matthew 24:29-31, Revelation 19:7 to 20:6), is so that Christians can be better prepared mentally not to be blindsided (1 Peter 4:12-13) or deceived by anything that is coming (Matthew 24:4-5,23-25, Revelation 13:13-18, Revelation 19:20), and so that they can be better prepared mentally to endure the future Tribulation with patience and faith to the end (Matthew 24:9-13, Revelation 13:7-10, Revelation 14:12-13, Revelation 20:4-6), and not commit apostasy during the Tribulation (Isaiah 8:21-22, Matthew 24:9-13, Matthew 13:21), to the ultimate loss of their salvation (Hebrews 6:4-8, John 15:6; 2 Timothy 2:12).

NeedyFollower said in post #168:

Paul along with Stephen knew that we are the temple of God ....

But note that we are not the only temple of God. See the "Ephesians 2:21" part of post #36 above.

jgr · Nov 18, 2018

Bible2+ said:
That is, how was a genetic sample from Jacob obtained?

And how was it determined to be from Jacob and not from someone else?

Read the links provided. Then ask the Jews and mathematicians who have submitted the evidence.

Bible2+ said:
Similarly, are you going to say that someone is a Jew when he is 99.9% non-Jewish?

Where do you see what percentages are required?
There are none in Scripture.
There are none in the Israeli Law of Return.

Any nonzero percentage qualifies.

Bible2+ said:
Also, even though all nations have always been from one blood (Acts 17:26), note that God's distinction between Jews and Gentiles continues today because it will continue in the future (Romans 11:25-29).

For example, Gentiles are distinguished from Jews in the description of the future Tribulation of Revelation chapters 6 to 18 and Matthew 24 (Revelation 11:2).

God is fully aware of physically genetic Israel's ubiquity. If you believe that contradicts His Word, then resolve it with Him.

Bible2+ said:
Note that no scripture refers to a ubiquity of physically genetic Israel.

Nor does it need to.

Bible2+ said:
Note that spiritual Israel includes both elect genetic Israelites and elect genetic Gentiles (1 Corinthians 12:13, Romans 9:24). See also post #156 above.

The Church is comprised of elect genetic Israelites and elect genetic Gentiles (1 Corinthians 12:13, Romans 9:24). The elect are spiritually genetic believers in Christ. Paul is addressing them in the churches at Corinth and Rome.

Bible2+ said:
He allowed this so that these structures could serve as placeholders until the time comes for the third Jewish temple.

The Jews in 363 AD thought they knew that the time had come. They were wrong.

There is no reason to believe that they would not be wrong again.

The Gryphon · Nov 18, 2018

FireDragon76 said:
The temple of God is the Church: Revelation 21:3

That is true as far as it goes but you only tell part of the truth.

The Gryphon · Nov 18, 2018

NeedyFollower said:
Yes brother ...to rebuild a man made temple and despise God's temple and then to offer the blood of animals ??? What a sacrilege this should be to any devout follower of Jesus Christ ...to even hope or support such a thing is unthinkable . Political Israel was founded by many athistic Jews and just like america and many if not all earthly nations , it was built with bloodshed . The promised land of the old covenant ( broken by Israel according to God's will ) has been replaced by a much better eternal covenant and a far superior promised land ...It is the eternal promised land and includes the universe ..not a little piece of dirt ..How American's religious and political leaders must despise Israel to short change them with the promise of the old covenant . In the parable of the prodigal son , the Father tells the elder son ..." All that I have has always been yours .." Do we not understand this ? Thank you brother for your input ...we do NOT want another inanimate temple of stone .

Do you not understand we are discussing the non-believing Jews building a third Temple in Jerusalem? That has nothing to do with despising G_d's Temple as Christians understand it as they are non-believers at this point. Upon Yeshua's Second coming they will see Him they have pierced and the Bible clearly says in many places all Israel will be saved. But that comes later. It is not unthinkable for non-believing Jews to rebuild the Temple as it is prophesied in the Bible. I suppose you do believe in the Bible. Israel was also re-established just as it was prophesied in the Bible in one day. You are wrong in that it has be replaced as that is counter to what the Bible and Jesus himself says in the Bible. Much of the Old Testament Covenants have been fulfilled but have not been 'Replaced'. Matthew 5:17 17"Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them.
Also the Apostle Paul says in Romans 11:
1I ask then: Did God reject his people? By no means! I am an Israelite myself, a descendant of Abraham, from the tribe of Benjamin. 2God did not reject his people, whom he foreknew. Don’t you know what Scripture says in the passage about Elijah—how he appealed to God against Israel: 3“Lord, they have killed your prophets and torn down your altars; I am the only one left, and they are trying to kill me” a ? 4And what was God’s answer to him? “I have reserved for myself seven thousand who have not bowed the knee to Baal.” b 5So too, at the present time there is a remnant chosen by grace. 6And if by grace, then it cannot be based on works; if it were, grace would no longer be grace.

7What then? What the people of Israel sought so earnestly they did not obtain. The elect among them did, but the others were hardened, 8as it is written:

“God gave them a spirit of stupor,eyes that could not see and ears that could not hear,
to this very day.”

9And David says:
“May their table become a snare and a trap, a stumbling block and a retribution for them.

10May their eyes be darkened so they cannot see, and their backs be bent forever.”

Ingrafted Branches

11Again I ask: Did they stumble so as to fall beyond recovery? Not at all! Rather, because of their transgression, salvation has come to the Gentiles to make Israel envious. 12But if their transgression means riches for the world, and their loss means riches for the Gentiles, how much greater riches will their full inclusion bring!

13I am talking to you Gentiles. Inasmuch as I am the apostle to the Gentiles, I take pride in my ministry 14in the hope that I may somehow arouse my own people to envy and save some of them. 15For if their rejection brought reconciliation to the world, what will their acceptance be but life from the dead? 16If the part of the dough offered as firstfruits is holy, then the whole batch is holy; if the root is holy, so are the branches.

17If some of the branches have been broken off, and you, though a wild olive shoot, have been grafted in among the others and now share in the nourishing sap from the olive root, 18do not consider yourself to be superior to those other branches. If you do, consider this: You do not support the root, but the root supports you. 19You will say then, “Branches were broken off so that I could be grafted in.” 20Granted. But they were broken off because of unbelief, and you stand by faith. Do not be arrogant, but tremble. 21For if God did not spare the natural branches, he will not spare you either.

22Consider therefore the kindness and sternness of God: sternness to those who fell, but kindness to you, provided that you continue in his kindness. Otherwise, you also will be cut off. 23And if they do not persist in unbelief, they will be grafted in, for God is able to graft them in again. 24After all, if you were cut out of an olive tree that is wild by nature, and contrary to nature were grafted into a cultivated olive tree, how much more readily will these, the natural branches, be grafted into their own olive tree!

All Israel Will Be Saved

25I do not want you to be ignorant of this mystery, brothers and sisters, so that you may not be conceited: Israel has experienced a hardening in part until the full number of the Gentiles has come in, 26and in this way e all Israel will be saved.

Upon Jesus Second Coming He will establish His Kingdom upon the earth for a millennium ruling from Jerusalem, Israel. This will be before the New earth, the New Heaven, and the New Jerusalem are established.

The Gryphon · Nov 18, 2018

jgr said:
You are welcome to attempt to disprove the presented scientific evidence.

Today, as a result of over 3,000 years of racial dispersion and diffusion since Jacob, every person on earth possesses some amount of Israelitish DNA, qualifying everyone as a genetic Israelite.

And I would like a link to see for myself where you get proof for such a fantastical statement! Such a statement requires extraordinary proof to offered to prove it. So jgr please offer such proof,

jgr · Nov 18, 2018

The Gryphon said:
jgr said:
You are welcome to attempt to disprove the presented scientific evidence.

Today, as a result of over 3,000 years of racial dispersion and diffusion since Jacob, every person on earth possesses some amount of Israelitish DNA, qualifying everyone as a genetic Israelite.

And I would like a link to see for myself where you get proof for such a fantastical statement! Such a statement requires extraordinary proof to offered to prove it. So jgr please offer such proof,

Post #158.

Bible2+ · Nov 18, 2018

jgr said in post #172:

Read the links provided.

Can you quote from the links where they indicate how a genetic sample from Jacob was obtained, and how was it determined to be from him and not from someone else? (For example, there are some people who claim that the Jews today are not Israelites, but "Khazars" who converted to Judaism.)

jgr said in post #172:

Then ask the Jews and mathematicians who have submitted the evidence.

Do you mean that the links themselves do not say how the evidence was determined to be from Jacob? If they do not, then on what basis do you believe the evidence?

jgr said in post #172:

[Re: Are you going to say that someone is a Jew when he is 99.9% non-Jewish?]

Any nonzero percentage qualifies.

What do you base that on?

For note that there will still be Gentiles even in the future (Revelation 11:2).

jgr said in post #172:

The Church is comprised of elect genetic Israelites and elect genetic Gentiles (1 Corinthians 12:13, Romans 9:24).

Then do you agree that there are still Gentiles?

jgr said in post #172:

The elect are spiritually genetic believers in Christ.

What do you mean by "spiritually genetic"?

Also, note that the elect include some people who are not yet believers (Romans 11:28). For election is different than salvation. Elect people are elected (chosen) by God before they get saved (Acts 13:48b, Ephesians 1:4, Romans 9:11; 2 Thessalonians 2:13; 2 Timothy 2:10). During their lifetime, elect people are eventually granted God's miraculous gift of Christian faith (Ephesians 2:8, John 6:65; 1 Corinthians 3:5b, Romans 12:3b, Hebrews 12:2) because they are elect (Acts 13:48b). Also, while elect people cannot become nonelect, after they become Christians they need to be careful not to wrongly employ their free will in such a way that they will ultimately lose their salvation (Hebrews 10:26-29, Matthew 25:26,30, Hebrews 6:4-8).

jgr said in post #172:

[Re: Building a third Jewish temple]

The Jews in 363 AD thought they knew that the time had come. They were wrong.

That's right. It was not the time.

jgr said in post #172:

There is no reason to believe that they would not be wrong again.

Note that there is. For Revelation 11:1-2, Matthew 24:15, Daniel 11:31,36, and 2 Thessalonians 2:4 require that there will be a third Jewish temple in the earthly Jerusalem during the future Tribulation of Revelation chapters 6 to 18 and Matthew 24.

NeedyFollower · Nov 19, 2018

Bible2+ said:
What do you base that on?

For while the understanding of the Old Testament prophecies regarding Jesus Christ's suffering and death for our sins (Isaiah 53; 1 Corinthians 15:3) on the Cross (Psalms 22), and His rising physically from the dead (Psalms 16:10, Acts 2:31) on the third day (Hoses 6:2; 1 Corinthians 15:4, Colossians 2:12), was not given to the apostles of Jesus until after they had witnessed the fulfillment of these prophecies (Luke 24:45-48), this does not contradict that other prophecies can be understood before they are fulfilled (e.g. Matthew 2:4-6).

Luke 24:45-48 happened before the Pentecost in Acts 2, and was made possible by the apostles of Jesus Christ receiving God's Holy Spirit in some measure before that Pentecost (John 20:22). Non-Christians often cannot understand the Spirit's teachings, including Biblical prophecy, because they have not received the Spirit like Christians have (1 Corinthians 2:11-16). But even Christians retain their free will, and so can wrongly employ it to quench the Spirit (1 Thessalonians 5:19) within them and reject what He is trying to tell them (either directly or through other Christians) regarding how to understand Biblical prophecies. It is possible for Christians to become united in what they believe (1 Corinthians 1:10), if they will submit their will to the Spirit, and to what He teaches in the Bible (2 Timothy 4:2-4).

Also, just as Jesus Christ's Second Coming in Revelation 19:7 to 20:3 has always been relevant to Christians, despite the fact that it has not yet been fulfilled, but will be fulfilled almost entirely literally in our future, so the highly detailed and chronological events of the just-preceding Tribulation in Revelation chapters 6 to 18, and the subsequent Millennium and other events in Revelation chapters 20 to 22, have always been relevant to Christians despite the fact that they have not yet been fulfilled, but will be fulfilled almost entirely literally in our future.

To put it another way, the future fulfillment of the Tribulation of Revelation chapters 6 to 18 and Matthew 24, before Jesus Christ returns immediately after the Tribulation (Matthew 24:29-31, Revelation 19:7 to 20:6), should be relevant to every Christian regardless of whether or not he thinks that he will still be alive to go through the Tribulation; just as, for example, the past fulfillment of Genesis chapters 1 to 11 should be relevant to every Christian regardless of him not being alive at that time to experience it. For all parts of the Bible, regarding all times, are profitable to all Christians of all times (2 Timothy 3:16, Matthew 4:4).

Also, the future fulfillment of Revelation chapters 6 to 18 and Matthew 24 should be especially relevant to every Christian alive today. For the main reason that the Bible gives clear warning ahead of time about everything that Christians alive at the time of the Tribulation will have to face (Mark 13:23, Revelation chapters 6 to 18, Revelation 1:1, Revelation 22:16), before Jesus Christ returns immediately after the Tribulation (Matthew 24:29-31, Revelation 19:7 to 20:6), is so that Christians can be better prepared mentally not to be blindsided (1 Peter 4:12-13) or deceived by anything that is coming (Matthew 24:4-5,23-25, Revelation 13:13-18, Revelation 19:20), and so that they can be better prepared mentally to endure the future Tribulation with patience and faith to the end (Matthew 24:9-13, Revelation 13:7-10, Revelation 14:12-13, Revelation 20:4-6), and not commit apostasy during the Tribulation (Isaiah 8:21-22, Matthew 24:9-13, Matthew 13:21), to the ultimate loss of their salvation (Hebrews 6:4-8, John 15:6; 2 Timothy 2:12).

But note that we are not the only temple of God. See the "Ephesians 2:21" part of post #36 above.

Yes ...Ephesians does declare that we are part of the temple ...each member being a living stone with Christ Jesus the chief corner stone . Thus the reason for the destruction of the temple in 70 ad ..it was part of the fulfillment ...the mystery ..the old temple being but a shadow of the new living temple . I believe the apostasy is already in progress with wholesale deception ..this is described in 2nd Timothy , chapter 3 . If we join the holy and the profane , this is against both old testament teachings and new testament teachings . ( God and Country ??? no basis in scripture ..only tradition . ) Be not unequally yoked with unbelievers was not written in the context of marriage . To restore a secular state of Israel through the use of violence goes against " be as wise as serpents and harmless as doves . " So does rebelling against the King of England .....Jesus upbraided the religious leaders in His day for transgressing the laws of God in order to follow the doctrines of men . Nothing changes does it ? We utilize the old testament when it suits us but rely on the new testament for our own salvation . God is unquestionably against any proud nation or proud people or His word is not true and I believe His word is absolutely true .
I agree that things are spiritually discerned but we are easily led astray and not everyone has the spirit of Christ . But we know that God is not mocked ...He gives grace to the humble but opposes the proud ..the proud can not receive grace nor is repentance sought . Christ did not come to change who God is and God is not a respecter of people . Take a look at Jeremiah , Isiah , Amos , Malachi and replace the Jews with modern day state of christianity and it will shock you ...and again ..God does not change ..if he did not spare the natural branch ..I wonder do we have enough humility to possibly repent or did He raise us up in order to be an example to the rest of the world in one hour ....and all the merchants wept ..Calling ourselves a christian nation ( that concept does not exist in the bible ) or putting in God we trust on our MONEY of all things ..does not make it true of course ..that is just one of the great deceptions ....are we children of falsehood as it says in Isiah ?

NeedyFollower · Nov 19, 2018

The Gryphon said:
Do you not understand we are discussing the non-believing Jews building a third Temple in Jerusalem? That has nothing to do with despising G_d's Temple as Christians understand it as they are non-believers at this point. Upon Yeshua's Second coming they will see Him they have pierced and the Bible clearly says in many places all Israel will be saved. But that comes later. It is not unthinkable for non-believing Jews to rebuild the Temple as it is prophesied in the Bible. I suppose you do believe in the Bible. Israel was also re-established just as it was prophesied in the Bible in one day. You are wrong in that it has be replaced as that is counter to what the Bible and Jesus himself says in the Bible. Much of the Old Testament Covenants have been fulfilled but have not been 'Replaced'. Matthew 5:17 17"Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them.
Also the Apostle Paul says in Romans 11:
1I ask then: Did God reject his people? By no means! I am an Israelite myself, a descendant of Abraham, from the tribe of Benjamin. 2God did not reject his people, whom he foreknew. Don’t you know what Scripture says in the passage about Elijah—how he appealed to God against Israel: 3“Lord, they have killed your prophets and torn down your altars; I am the only one left, and they are trying to kill me” a ? 4And what was God’s answer to him? “I have reserved for myself seven thousand who have not bowed the knee to Baal.” b 5So too, at the present time there is a remnant chosen by grace. 6And if by grace, then it cannot be based on works; if it were, grace would no longer be grace.

7What then? What the people of Israel sought so earnestly they did not obtain. The elect among them did, but the others were hardened, 8as it is written:

“God gave them a spirit of stupor,eyes that could not see and ears that could not hear,
to this very day.”

9And David says:
“May their table become a snare and a trap, a stumbling block and a retribution for them.

10May their eyes be darkened so they cannot see, and their backs be bent forever.”

Ingrafted Branches

11Again I ask: Did they stumble so as to fall beyond recovery? Not at all! Rather, because of their transgression, salvation has come to the Gentiles to make Israel envious. 12But if their transgression means riches for the world, and their loss means riches for the Gentiles, how much greater riches will their full inclusion bring!

13I am talking to you Gentiles. Inasmuch as I am the apostle to the Gentiles, I take pride in my ministry 14in the hope that I may somehow arouse my own people to envy and save some of them. 15For if their rejection brought reconciliation to the world, what will their acceptance be but life from the dead? 16If the part of the dough offered as firstfruits is holy, then the whole batch is holy; if the root is holy, so are the branches.

17If some of the branches have been broken off, and you, though a wild olive shoot, have been grafted in among the others and now share in the nourishing sap from the olive root, 18do not consider yourself to be superior to those other branches. If you do, consider this: You do not support the root, but the root supports you. 19You will say then, “Branches were broken off so that I could be grafted in.” 20Granted. But they were broken off because of unbelief, and you stand by faith. Do not be arrogant, but tremble. 21For if God did not spare the natural branches, he will not spare you either.

22Consider therefore the kindness and sternness of God: sternness to those who fell, but kindness to you, provided that you continue in his kindness. Otherwise, you also will be cut off. 23And if they do not persist in unbelief, they will be grafted in, for God is able to graft them in again. 24After all, if you were cut out of an olive tree that is wild by nature, and contrary to nature were grafted into a cultivated olive tree, how much more readily will these, the natural branches, be grafted into their own olive tree!

All Israel Will Be Saved

25I do not want you to be ignorant of this mystery, brothers and sisters, so that you may not be conceited: Israel has experienced a hardening in part until the full number of the Gentiles has come in, 26and in this way e all Israel will be saved.

Upon Jesus Second Coming He will establish His Kingdom upon the earth for a millennium ruling from Jerusalem, Israel. This will be before the New earth, the New Heaven, and the New Jerusalem are established.

I wonder why we often think of Christians as gentiles ? Is not everyone outside of Israel is a gentile ? ? Greeks , Muslims , Buddhist , etc. etc. ..Of course there are gentile believers ..( some who were in Palestine who were kicked out by Israel ...why does American Christians often fight against God by supporting a secular Israel and not actually loving them by praying for their repentance ...Did Christ not say ..go make disciples teaching them to observe all that I commanded you . ...to Love their enemies to overcome evil with good ? Am I following the wrong gospel ? I do hope for Israel ...but not secular Israel ..He is a jew who is one inwardly , who's praise is of God and not of man ..I greatly desire All men to come to a relationship with God through His Son but it seems that many are following a Jesus I know not . This Jesus is a politician and needs our help ...., our military aid ...and this Jesus needs us to fight ..it contradicts His own words ...and Jesus without His words may as well be a Muslim . What is the difference if we do not follow our own writings ?

The Gryphon · Nov 19, 2018

NeedyFollower said:
I wonder why we often think of Christians as gentiles ? Is not everyone outside of Israel is a gentile ? ? Greeks , Muslims , Buddhist , etc. etc. ..Of course there are gentile believers ..( some who were in Palestine who were kicked out by Israel ...why does American Christians often fight against God by supporting a secular Israel and not actually loving them by praying for their repentance ...Did Christ not say ..go make disciples teaching them to observe all that I commanded you . ...to Love their enemies to overcome evil with good ? Am I following the wrong gospel ? I do hope for Israel ...but not secular Israel ..He is a jew who is one inwardly , who's praise is of God and not of man ..I greatly desire All men to come to a relationship with God through His Son but it seems that many are following a Jesus I know not . This Jesus is a politician and needs our help ...., our military aid ...and this Jesus needs us to fight ..it contradicts His own words ...and Jesus without His words may as well be a Muslim . What is the difference if we do not follow our own writings ?

G_d has a plan for modern secular Israel as the Bible clearly spells out. Are you not aware of that or do you deny it? I pray for all non-believers but especially for Jews as G_d has placed them upon my heart. Yeshua Hamashiach (Jesus the Messiah) is coming again and there were approximately 15,000 Messianic Jewish believers in Israel as of 2014 and growing (Messianic Judaism Gaining Momentum in Israel). Their are also Christian Zionists; Christian Zionism merges theology and politics. It teaches that the secular State of Israel is a fulfillment of Biblical prophecy. Christian Zionism believes that this fulfillment of Biblical prophecy began when European Jews started moving to Palestine in the 1800s, and continued as Israel became a nation in 1948. Christian Zionists believe that modern Israel is a continuation of Biblical Israel and therefore should enjoy special privileges. They declare that it is the responsibility of Christians to support the State of Israel and its policies (Christian Zionism Organization).

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