Vatican cancels US Bishops' vote on sex reform measures

JimR-OCDS · Nov 17, 2018

Davidnic said:
Earlier didn't you criticize others for attacking the source with America magazine?

I agree sources matter which is why I don't use lifesite. But you're doing what you had a problem with from others.

America is an official magazine of the Jesuits, and Catholic.

The Globe is a secular publication with no love for the Catholic Church.

I hope you can see the difference.

Jim

JimR-OCDS · Nov 17, 2018

eastcoast_bsc said:
It is currently hosted by the Knights of Columbus

So ?

The Knights of Columbus have many issues I won't bring up in here.

I have first hand experience with a group of them, on a men's retreat.

Jim

AvilaSurfer · Nov 17, 2018

The Knights do great work.

Davidnic · Nov 17, 2018

JimR-OCDS said:
America is an official magazine of the Jesuits, and Catholic.

The Globe is a secular publication with no love for the Catholic Church.

I hope you can see the difference.

Jim

And the Knights of Columbus which you later attack by implication is an approved fraternal organization within the Catholic Church, and Catholic.

It does your overall argument little good to engage in behavior you condemn in others.

It makes it seem like moving goal posts to prove a desired point despite facts.

JimR-OCDS · Nov 17, 2018

Davidnic said:
And the Knights of Columbus which you later attack by implication is an approved fraternal organization within the Catholic Church, and Catholic.

It does your overall argument little good to engage in behavior you condemn in others.

It makes it seem like moving goal posts to prove a desired point despite facts.

Try to stay within the context of the conversation.

New Crux originated just four years ago, with the Boston Globe.

Because the Knights of Columbus now has a foot in it, means little in the context of the overall conversation.

Jim

Davidnic · Nov 17, 2018

The context is you claimed it was different because the Jesuits are Catholic and the globe is not. So your calling out attacking the source is different from your own attack on a source.

Then when it was pointed out the Knights were involved you attacked that Catholic group.

Then you were called out on it and then called for people to stay in context because your own justification was harpooned by your own well poisoning on a Catholic group. Which was the critera you set up to separate what you did from others.

And the sources on the Grassi case (and a half dozen others) go beyond one source. They include court rulings, committee documents and years of coverage and evidence.

The Grassi case, and the cases directly in his diocese (that he claimed did not exist) are relevant and can not be ignored.

Maybe something is there. Maybe not. But it should not be dismissed lightly and deserves scrutiny.

I defended the Pope for years on the fact that he was committed to transparency on abuse. A few things caused me to look deeper. First the resignations from his abuse working group and the reasons. Then Barros. Then Grassi.

We get nowhere ignoring it. These are not false flags trumped up by enemies. These are issues that deserve serious examination.

JimR-OCDS · Nov 17, 2018

Davidnic said:
The context is you claimed it was different because the Jesuits are Catholic and the globe is not. So your calling out attacking the source is different from your own attack on a source.

Then when it was pointed out the Knights were involved you attacked that Catholic group.

Then you were called out on it and then called for people to stay in context because your own justification was harpooned by your own well poisoning on a Catholic group. Which was the critera you set up to separate what you did from others.

And the sources on the Grassi case (and a half dozen others) go beyond one source. They include court rulings, committee documents and years of coverage and evidence.

The Grassi case, and the cases directly in his diocese (that he claimed did not exist) are relevant and can not be ignored.

Maybe something is there. Maybe not. But it should not be dismissed lightly and deserves scrutiny.

I defended the Pope for years on the fact that he was committed to transparency on abuse. A few things caused me to look deeper. First the resignations from his abuse working group and the reasons. Then Barros. Then Grassi.

We get nowhere ignoring it. These are not false flags trumped up by enemies. These are issues that deserve serious examination.

Court rulings in a dictatorship David ? You really want to use them as evidence ? I hope you don't think the former Soviet Union Courts should be used as evidence against the priest they sent to the Gulag ?

The Knights of Columbus are principled in general, but many of their local's are no different than an American Legion where a bar and pool tables are the priority.

Of course comparing them with the Boston Globe, I'd support the Knights.

Fact is, New Crux has been separated from the Boston Globe for just four years. I also recall when the Globe started their so-called spiritual segment and had Magori Egan as their expert. LOL

You'd have to live here in MA to understand the irony.

But none of this has anything to do with the subject of this thread.

The reasons why the Vatican asked the US Bishops to delay their vote until February, were made as per the article I provided, which support my original post about the reasons for the Vatican's call to delay.

Jim

Davidnic · Nov 18, 2018

JimR-OCDS said:
Court rulings in a dictatorship David ? You really want to use them as evidence ? I hope you don't think the former Soviet Union Courts should be used as evidence against the priest they sent to the Gulag ?

The Knights of Columbus are principled in general, but many of their local's are no different than an American Legion where a bar and pool tables are the priority.

Of course comparing them with the Boston Globe, I'd support the Knights.

Fact is, New Crux has been separated from the Boston Globe for just four years. I also recall when the Globe started their so-called spiritual segment and had Magori Egan as their expert. LOL

You'd have to live here in MA to understand the irony.

But none of this has anything to do with the subject of this thread.

The reasons why the Vatican asked the US Bishops to delay their vote until February, were made as per the article I provided, which support my original post about the reasons for the Vatican's call to delay.

Jim

You seem to try to be equating everything that happened in Argentina during the dirty war to current day. I've always defended the Pope against the slanders from during that time.

These accusations are not from then. And these ones are complicated by his own comments that were proven wrong.

Davidnic · Nov 18, 2018

If you don't want to read Crux go read the primary, secondary and other documents in the other links.

Davidnic · Nov 18, 2018

How about National Catholic Reporter:

Francis' Argentina abuse record questioned

They are essentially the anti lifesitenews. I don't find them reliable on a lot of their reporting but many do.

There are thousands of sources. His record on abuse deserves to be examined. that is particularly true when you get the inconsistencies like what he said about Chile before it became a disaster and he backtracked, the reality rather than the style of his working group on abuse and, how the recent explosion in the crisis has been handled by the Vatican.

There are huge inconsistencies in what's happening. That merits an investigation, without flippant dismissal and poisioning of the well, of his record.

Michie · Nov 18, 2018

True Healing for Our Church Depends on What the US Bishops Do Next

JimR-OCDS · Nov 18, 2018

Davidnic said:
How about National Catholic Reporter:

Francis' Argentina abuse record questioned

They are essentially the anti lifesitenews. I don't find them reliable on a lot of their reporting but many do.

There are thousands of sources. His record on abuse deserves to be examined. that is particularly true when you get the inconsistencies like what he said about Chile before it became a disaster and he backtracked, the reality rather than the style of his working group on abuse and, how the recent explosion in the crisis has been handled by the Vatican.

There are huge inconsistencies in what's happening. That merits an investigation, without flippant dismissal and poisioning of the well, of his record.

////////////

Questioned is the operating word here and who is questioning Pope Francis ?

A U.S.-based group that operates a clergy sex abuse database has accused Pope Francis of remaining
silent on clergy sex abuse during his time as archbishop of Buenos Aires, Argentina.

The group BishopAccountability.org

A US based group. How much about Argentina do they even know ?

FYI, BishopAccountability.org is on some of the other articles you linked and I've heard from them in the past.

They do have an agenda ?

Are they right or just beating drums against anyone in the hierarchy of the Church ?

Please forgive me for my skepticism, but I've recently been through false accusations made against a relative, which were proven false

I also saw a poor 80 year old Vietnamese Priest who spent 23 years in a communist prison, only to be released because head cancer, accused by a fake nun. The judge threw her case out as she proved herself that she fabricated the story.

Then of course, we went through the Kavanaugh hearings with accusations that lacked credibility.

Don't misunderstand me, there have been sexual abusers in the Church. There have been Bishops who covered up, Cardinal Law being one.

I'm just not going to jump on every bandwagon of accusation, especially from groups who would just as soon destroy the Catholic Church than present a balanced story.

I pray for Pope Francis and the Catholic Church daily. It's all I can do at this point in time.

Jim

Davidnic · Nov 18, 2018

JimR-OCDS said:
I prayfor Pope Francis and the Catholic Church daily. It's all I can do at this point in time.

Jim

Of that we are of one heart and mind and I pray we always will be. No matter our disagreement, a blessed Thanksgiving to you and yours Jim. I have found you always to be a good man, no matter where we might disagree on this.

JimR-OCDS · Nov 18, 2018

Davidnic said:
Of that we are of one heart and mind and I pray we always will be. No matter our disagreement, a blessed Thanksgiving to you and yours Jim. I have found you always to be a good man, no matter where we might disagree on this.

You and your family have a nice Thanksgiving as well !

In Christ

Jim

Michie · Nov 19, 2018

Lay Faithful Send Bishops a Message in Baltimore: ‘Silence Stops Now’

Michie · Nov 19, 2018

Cupich denies he and Wuerl hatched rival plan before Baltimore

Michie · Nov 19, 2018

Cardinals Cupich and Wuerl Collaborated on Alternative Sex-Abuse Proposal

Michie · Nov 23, 2018

Cupich Denies working with Wuerl on ‘Metropolitan Model’ for Handling Clergy Abuse

Davidnic · Nov 23, 2018

So he did not discuss it with him but presented the exact same model and details Wuerl presented several months earlier. A model that has Bishops investigating and does not allow the laity to investigate Bishops like the plan the USCCB was going to pass.

chevyontheriver · Nov 23, 2018

Davidnic said:
So he did not discuss it with him but presented the exact same model and details Wuerl presented several months earlier. A model that has Bishops investigating and does not allow the laity to investigate Bishops like the plan the USCCB was going to pass.

I guess that Cupich and Wuerl don't want us laity investigating them.

Vatican cancels US Bishops' vote on sex reform measures

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