Kingdom of God on Earth

Dave L said:

But the first and second both happen in the same hour according to Jesus.

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Again they are the same resurrection. The second one
The 2nd resurrection is different for the righteous than it is for the damned.
In the second resurrection the righteous are raised in a resurrection of salvation.
In the second resurrection the damned are raised in a resurrection of damnation.

It is the same resurrection but to each it is as though it were different since the outcome for each is different.

1 is raised in glory and salvation
1 is raised in damnation and contempt
Both are raised at the same time in the second resurrection

This is the Second resurrection taking place at the last hour, the same hour, this resurrection is not divided by 1000 years, raising both at the same time,"

Dave L said:

Not sound exegesis more like eisegesis.

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The time is shortened otherwise no flesh will survive(Matt 24:22) so just as days were for years(Ez 4:6, Num 14:34) the years are for days.

Dave L said:

We aren't getting anywhere. Our eschatologies are vastly different and until we can agree on them, we are kicking around bits an pieces to no avail.

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Now you see why I said before we would not get anywhere. I love you brother but a discussion where one person keeps asking the same question, after already getting the answer, doesn't profit us anything.

Maria Billingsley said:

There have been great earthquakes throughout history, one in particular was 33 ad, probably the most significant. Since the earthquake that took place during the time of Uzziah is compared to a future earthquake that involved a temple rent, then I lean towards 33 ad as being a major part of the prophesy with the final fulfillment in 70 ad.

51 Then, behold, the veil of the temple was torn in two from top to bottom; and the earth quaked, and the rocks were split, 52 and the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints who had fallen asleep were raised; 53 and coming out of the graves after His resurrection, they went into the holy city and appeared to many.

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I agree that the veil of the temple being rent during the time of Uzziah may very well be a type for the veil being rent at Christ's death(anti type) .

That which takes place in Zech 14 is depicted as the Mt of Olives specifically(the mountain to the east of the city) being parted four ways to drive out those who took Jerusalem, so the only way I can see for it to have already taken place is for Rome(in 70 ad) to have been driven out by the mt of olives parting into a great valley. If Luke 21 and Zech 14 are different and Luke 21 is what happened in 70 Ad(as part of the beginning of sorrows) then it still remains that Jerusalem must be taken again as Zech 14 describes.

So I could see Jerusalem being taken as described in Luke 21 as part of the beginning of sorrows in 70Ad only if Zech 14 still remains unfulfilled.

Maria Billingsley said:

There have been great earthquakes throughout history, one in particular was 33 ad, probably the most significant. Since the earthquake that took place during the time of Uzziah is compared to a future earthquake that involved a temple rent, then I lean towards 33 ad.

51 Then, behold, the veil of the temple was torn in two from top to bottom; and the earth quaked, and the rocks were split, 52 and the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints who had fallen asleep were raised; 53and coming out of the graves after His resurrection, they went into the holy city and appeared to many.

Another reason why I do not think it is future is much of what is written pertains to that time period. Simple things like:

And it shall be that whichever of the families of the earth do not come up to Jerusalem to worship the King, the Lord of hosts, on them there will be no rain.
We are not required to go to Jerusalem to worship our Lord.

HOLINESS TO THE LORD” shall be engraved on the bells of the horses.

We do not ride on horses anymore.

The every pot in Jerusalem and Judah shall be holiness to the Lord of hosts. Everyone who sacrifices shall come and take them and cook in them.

Most importantly there is a temple that performs sacrifices, we do not have this nor will be performing sacrifices.

If the family of punishment of Egypt and the punishment of all the nations that do not come up to keep the Feast of Tabernacles.

And the threat from God for those who do not come during the Feast of Tabernacles looking forward to the promised Messianic age when all nations will flow to this city to worship the Lord.

I could go on and on.....

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1. The kingdom on earth will be in the valley of the mountain it will envelop Jerusalem so when it refers to the people coming to Jerusalem it is saying his holy mountain that is why they say"Let us go up to that Holy mountain"
Zech 14:16
16 And it shall come to pass, that every one that is left of all the nations which came against Jerusalem shall even go up from year to year to worship the King, the Lord of hosts, and to keep the feast of tabernacles.
17 And it shall be, that whoso will not come up of all the families of the earth unto Jerusalem to worship the King, the Lord of hosts, even upon them shall be no rain.
Micah 4:1-2
1 But in the last days it shall come to pass, that the mountain of the house of the Lord shall be established in the top of the mountains, and it shall be exalted above the hills; and people shall flow unto it.
2 And many nations shall come, and say, Come, and let us go up to the mountain of the Lord, and to the house of the God of Jacob; and he will teach us of his ways, and we will walk in his paths: for the law shall go forth of Zion, and the word of the Lord from Jerusalem.
Isaiah 2:2-3
2 And it shall come to pass in the last days, that the mountain of the Lord's house shall be established in the top of the mountains, and shall be exalted above the hills; and all nations shall flow unto it.
3 And many people shall go and say, Come ye, and let us go up to the mountain of the Lord, to the house of the God of Jacob; and he will teach us of his ways, and we will walk in his paths: for out of Zion shall go forth the law, and the word of the Lord from Jerusalem.
Isaiah 66:20
20And they shall bring all your brethren for an offering unto the LORD out of all nations upon horses, and in chariots, and in litters, and upon mules, and upon swift beasts, to my holy mountain Jerusalem, saith the LORD, as the children of Israel bring an offering in a clean vessel into the house of the LORD.
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2. So we will never ride them again?
Isaiah 66:20
20And they shall bring all your brethren for an offering unto the LORD out of all nations upon horses, and in chariots, and in litters, and upon mules, and upon swift beasts, to my holy mountain Jerusalem, saith the LORD, as the children of Israel bring an offering in a clean vessel into the house of the LORD.

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3. We are each of us living sacrifices offering up spiritual offerings. So yes we are each of us making sacrifices unto the lord.
Christ is our lamb of sacrifice(John 1:29), all forms of Old testament sacrifice are done away with. Each of us is now a living sacrifice(Romans 12:1) offering up spiritual offerings(1 peter 2:5), the blood of Goats and lambs does nothing for us anymore(Hebrews 10:4-10).

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4. Christ is the anti type of the feast of tabernacles so each person who takes part in Christ and keeps his word is taking part in the feast of tabernacles in the last days. And the two harvests from the wave sheaf offering are the two remnants gathered in becoming the fulfilment of all nations being gathered in to worship the Lord:

Tabernacles, wave sheaf offerings, wave loaf offerings, and the two harvests gathered in
deborah judges 4:4- 1.week of tabernacles- desire of ages p.- lev 23:39 07/15/
2,good seed matt 13:24
3.Christ the anti type of the wave sheaf-lamb wave sheaf 23:11,12- first fruit of the dead
4.pentecost = day wave loaves offered lev 23:16,17 - 50 days later
5. feast of tabernacles(typical) patriarch and prophet p.
6.tare sowing time mat 13:25- rom 13:11 awake
7.living harvest firstfruit ez 9:4; isaiah 66:19; lev 23:11- 144000
8.2nd fruits gathered in isaiah 66:20; 60:1,4,5; rev 18:4- second part of harvest leviticus 23:39

Since the Wave sheaf was a figure of Christ and those who rose with him as the first of the first fruits of the dead as the wave loafs were of a figure of the 12 disciples who were full complement of the first fruits of the dead who were gathered after the ressrection.

From all nations gathered in
20. Isaiah 1:2-4 these gathered in are called from among all the nations of the earth to the Lord's holy mountain-
22. Micah 4:1-4, Isaiah 2:3-4 those who are among the many nations of the earth shall say to one another let us go up to that Holy mountain-
24. Isaiah 60:1,3-5,11, Isaiah 56:8, Zechariah 2:10-13, Zech 8:3,7-23,Zech 14:16 many nations shall be joined unto the Lord in that day and he will dwell with them in his holy mountain-

Maria Billingsley said:

Brother...Azal does not exist anymore. Thoughts?


Well everything you are saying is in the Old testament and it is bouncing from one book to another. I am going to stick to my "already fulfilled".
Blessings-it was nice chatting with you!

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Yes it says it will drive out the nations by Christ standing on the mountain, it is a sign that all will see. Also all the subsequent events that were to follow have not yet come to pass as prophesied in Zech 14.

The bible is a puzzle sister, when it comes to prophecy, so the bouncing is required.
Nice speaking with you as well sister
May God guide you to the truth and light of his word.

Original Happy Camper said:

Isaiah 8:19-21 King James Version (KJV)

20 To the law and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them.

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True
Revelation 12:17
17 And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.

Original Happy Camper said:

20 To the law and to the testimony:
The law has ten commandments do you keep all ten, including the Seventh day Sabbath?

John 14:15 [Full Chapter]
If ye love me, keep my commandments.

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Yes, and here is why
Short version
Moral law Said to remain in the New testament, the sabbath day is no exception

Each of the ten commandments are shown within the New Testament spoken of either by Christ or the Apostles. The keeping of the Sabbath day is no exception.

4th Commandment(Keep the Sabbath day to sanctify it)

In the Old Testament: Exodus 20:8-11,

8 Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy.

9 Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work:

10 But the seventh day is the sabbath of the Lord thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates:

11 For in six days the Lord made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the Lord blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.

Deut 5:12-15


All of the Apostles kept the sabbath day holy and sacred.Acts 13:14, Acts 13:42-44, Acts 15:21, Acts 16:13, Acts 17:1-3, Acts 18:4


The Apostle Paul has said that the day of rest given by YHWH still remains: Hebrews 4:1-12

Original Happy Camper said:

20 To the law and to the testimony:
The law has ten commandments do you keep all ten, including the Seventh day Sabbath?

John 14:15 [Full Chapter]
If ye love me, keep my commandments.

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Long version
Moral law written in our hearts.
1 Do we begin again to commend ourselves? or need we, as some others, epistles of commendation to you, or letters of commendation from you?
2 Ye are our epistle written in our hearts, known and read of all men:


Not with ink(not by mosaic law) but by the Spirit(law of the Spirit). No longer on stone(moral law) but written in our hearts(Moral law)
3 Forasmuch as ye are manifestly declared to be the epistle of Christ ministered by us, written not with ink, but with the Spirit of the living God; not in tables of stone, but in fleshy tables of the heart.
4 And such trust have we through Christ to God-ward:
5 Not that we are sufficient of ourselves to think any thing as of ourselves; but our sufficiency is of God;


Not of the letter of the law(mosaic law which killeth) but of the spirit(law of the Spirit)
6 Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life.


While under the mosaic law the moral law also became a ministration of Death(being coupled with law written in ink) for the Moral law is easy but the Mosaic law is bondage. The Glory contained within these tablets was Glorious to behold but they who were to be under the law could not behold this law's Glory because of the veil of Moses. Which veil has been taken away and the Glory behind the veil revealed.
7 But if the ministration of death, written and engraven in stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not stedfastly behold the face of Moses for the glory of his countenance; which glory was to be done away:
13 And not as Moses, which put a veil over his face, that the children of Israel could not stedfastly look to the end of that which is abolished:
14 But their minds were blinded: for until this day remaineth the same vail untaken away in the reading of the old testament; which vail is done away in Christ.
15 But even unto this day, when Moses is read, the vail is upon their heart.


The Glory that was done away(Glory seen through the veil of the Mosaic law) was Glorious. But the Veil being taken away that which remains(moral law which was hidden behind the veil of the Mosaic law) is much more Glorious.
11 For if that which is done away was glorious, much more that which remaineth is glorious.
16 Nevertheless when it shall turn to the Lord, the vail shall be taken away.
17 Now the Lord is that Spirit: and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty.
18 But we all, with open face beholding as in a glass the glory of the Lord, are changed into the same image from glory to glory, even as by the Spirit of the Lord.


This is after the promise he would write his law within us, inside our hearts.

Jeremiah 31:33-34
33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the Lord, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.
34 And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the Lord: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.


Hebrews 10:16
16 This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them;


The Ten commandments were placed inside the ark of the Covenant written in stone by the finger of God Twice (Deuteronomy 10:2-5;Exodus 25:16; Exodus 31:16-18; Exodus 34:1) showing that they would stand for eternity. The Book of the Covenant(Exodus 34:27; Exodus 24:7; 2 Kings 23:21; 2 Kings 23:2) was only for a time, that is why he said there was going to be a new covenant(Jeremiah 31:31-34, Isaiah 28:10,13-19, Ezekiel 36:23-27,29-31). That is why the book of law, written by the hand of Moses(Exodus 34:27; Nehemiah 9:13,14) was not placed inside the ark of the Covenant with the ten commandments that were written in stone by the finger of God Twice, but were instead placed by the side of the ark( Deut 31:26) signifying that the book of law(the book of the covenant) was only for a time.

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The Eternal Covenant

The promise(Sabbath day) was indeed a perpetual covenant to show that those who kept it were sanctified by the Lord.

Exodus 31:13-18
13 Speak thou also unto the children of Israel, saying, Verily my sabbaths ye shall keep: for it is a sign between me and you throughout your generations; that ye may know that I am the Lord that doth sanctify you.
14 Ye shall keep the sabbath therefore; for it is holy unto you: every one that defileth it shall surely be put to death: for whosoever doeth any work therein, that soul shall be cut off from among his people.
15 Six days may work be done; but in the seventh is the sabbath of rest, holy to the Lord: whosoever doeth any work in the sabbath day, he shall surely be put to death.
16 Wherefore the children of Israel shall keep the sabbath, to observe the sabbath throughout their generations, for a perpetual covenant.
17 It is a sign between me and the children of Israel for ever: for in six days the Lord made heaven and earth, and on the seventh day he rested, and was refreshed.
18 And he gave unto Moses, when he had made an end of communing with him upon mount Sinai, two tables of testimony, tables of stone, written with the finger of God.


The Sabbath day was created for man(Mark 2:27-28) it was a covenant made in the beginning(Genesis 2:2;Hebrews 4:3) and restated in the Moral law on Mount Sinai(Exodus 31:13-18;Hebrews 4:4-5) it was given to the Jews who accepted the Lord God and were chosen by him(that is why he said it was a covenant with the Nation of Israel). The sabbath was given as a perpetual covenant for sanctification and promise to those who kept it holy(Exodus 31:13-14; Hebrews 4:9-11). When the kingdom was taken from the OT Jews and given to us(Matt 21:43; Romans 10:19,20; Acts 28:25-28) who are made Jews after the Circumcision of the heart and spirit(Romans 2:28-29; Acts 15:7-9; Romans 10:8; Colossians 2:11-13; Philippians 3:3) it was given to us(who are the new Jews, the people of God's Israel), being written in the fleshy tables of our hearts(2 Cor 3:2-6; Hebrews 4:9-10).


Christ who is lord of the Sabbath day(Matt 10:1-8; Mark 2:25-28;Luke 6:1-10) told us that the traditions of men added to the Sabbath were done(Luke 14:1-6) the same traditions spoken of by YHWH(Ez 20:13,16,18-21,24), that it was lawful to do the Lord's work on the Sabbath as well as do what we need to do(things that may or may not pertain to Godly work such as getting an animal out of a ditch/pit). Christ is the living word of God( John 1:1,14, Heb 4:12, Matt 10:44, Revelation 2:12,16, Isaiah 66:16, Eph 6:17) and Lord of the Sabbath day, he is the same yesterday today and tomorrow(Hebrews 13:8-9). Beings that he is both the living word of God and Lord of the Sabbath day it stands to reason that he would be the one to tell us the day was changed(or that it was no longer important). But nowhere in the bible do we find him saying this(or any of the Apostles for that matter).Instead we are told the seventh day Sabbath is kept in the New Heavens and the New Earth Isaiah 66:23. That it still remains to us(Hebrews 4:9)


Those who keep his Sabbath day(Saturday) are counted worthy of entering his Holy mountain in the last days.

Isaiah 56:1-12

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Hebrews 4:1-11

First Paul tells us to fear if the Promise of rest were to have left us.
1. Let us therefore fear, lest, a promise being left us of entering into his rest, any of you should seem to come short of it.


The Gospel did not profit them who heard but did not have faith.
2 For unto us was the gospel preached, as well as unto them: but the word preached did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in them that heard it.


We who believed enter into rest as we were commanded to by God when he swore to us by an oath that if we enter into the rest set by him after he had finished the works from the foundation of the world.
3 For we which have believed do enter into rest, as he said, As I have sworn in my wrath, if they shall enter into my rest: although the works were finished from the foundation of the world.


That is why he spoke in a certain place(the Moral law) on this matter, showing that even he did rest on this Seventh day sanctifying it as a everlasting sign and covenant between us.
4 For he spake in a certain place of the seventh day on this wise, And God did rest the seventh day from all his works.


And we are told again to continue to enter into his rest(keep the sabbath day) to receive his promise.
5 And in this place again, If they shall enter into my rest.


Seeing this, we know it remains(the sabbath day remains) that some must enter therein(those of faith/belief). But to those to whom it was first given did not keep it because of their unbelief.
6 Seeing therefore it remaineth that some must enter therein, and they to whom it was first preached entered not in because of unbelief:


When the Lord spoke to david he again limited a certain day(to david was again given the seventh day rest).
7 Again, he limiteth a certain day, saying in David, To day, after so long a time; as it is said, To day if ye will hear his voice, harden not your hearts.


If Jesus had come to give us another day of rest(another sabbath) then would he not have spoken of another day? Christ never mentioned another other day for sabbath worship, it cannot be found anywhere in the New Testament.
8 For if Jesus had given them rest, then would he not afterward have spoken of another day.


Because no other day was given by Christ or YHWH there remains a rest to the people of God. The same Sabbath day rest shown and spoken of since the beginning of the bible, being shown all the way into the new heavens and the New earth.
9 There remaineth therefore a rest to the people of God.


Those that enter into God's rest(seventh day sabbath) cease from their own works, after the example of God himself ceasing from his.
10 For he that is entered into his rest, he also hath ceased from his own works, as God did from his.


We are to labour to enter enter into that same rest(same sabbath day) lest we fall away from God as those others did from unbelief.
11 Let us labour therefore to enter into that rest, lest any man fall after the same example of unbelief.

Original Happy Camper said:

Thanks for the reply

Have a great Sabbath today

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You as well brother.