Why are so many Christians against annihilation in hell when scripture supports it?

Pneuma3

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And I do too. Because death is eternal punishment. :) Glad we can finally agree. Most born-again Christian, myself included, believe in eternal punishment which is death. And less people believe in universalism and eternal torment because they aren't biblical at all.

if death is eternal then there is no such thing as the resurrection of the dead. think about it.
 
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Choir Loft

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Unfortunately it is not possible to accept as credible everyone who claims they are born-again and have prayed about something.

So......

Now it comes to the place where you claim to have authority to judge whether a person is saved or not, whether they've prayed properly or not, whether God has heard them or not, whether they are approved by God or not.

You must be a lot of fun at parties......

Let's try to get it straight buddy. God means to put a permanent end to SIN. Once and for all it will stop.

Either it will stop by means of repentance and surrender to God's holy will or it will stop at the grave and the Lake of Fire. The Bible never implies or states that God will allow SIN to continue beyond the grave. The pagan concept of hell suggests sin continues forever - in total contradiction to the Word of God.

You are very good at writing an apologetic for hell and eternal SIN, despite clear Biblical evidence that God means to put an end to it. I wonder who's side you're really on? I'm not making any declarations here mind you, but your words sound an awful lot like someone who's a big fan of satan and doesn't want his game to stop.

It will, though.

that's me, hollering from the choir loft...
 
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Der Alte

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So......
Now it comes to the place where you claim to have authority to judge whether a person is saved or not, whether they've prayed properly or not, whether God has heard them or not, whether they are approved by God or not.
You must be a lot of fun at parties......
I have found it very helpful to actually read a post before trying to respond to it. Now in addition to empty hollering you are into making judgments and and false accusations. I never said or implied that I had any authority to judge anyone whether they had or had not done anything or that God had had/had not heard or approved them.
hollerin' said:
Let's try to get it straight buddy. God means to put a permanent end to SIN. Once and for all it will stop.
I never said or implied otherwise. You are still misrepresenting what I said.
Hollerin said:
You are very good at writing an apologetic for hell and eternal SIN, despite clear Biblical evidence that God means to put an end to it. I wonder who's side you're really on? I'm not making any declarations here mind you, but your words sound an awful lot like someone who's a big fan of satan and doesn't want his game to stop.
More misrepresentation. I have never said or implied that sin was eternal but scripture certainly says that the fire is eternal. Matthew 18:8, Mark 9:45, Jude 1:7, Nor have I ever implied that I'm a big fan of Satan. In fact I cannot remember the last time I even mentioned Satan.
 
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DM25

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A lot of people are just scared of the truth. The devil works in very sneaky ways. Because they have been so brainwashed by their pastors and worldly teachings their ultimate defense is rejecting the truth and labeling those who preach the truth as false teachers. That is all the devil's doing. It is too comfortable for them so they don't dig deeper, even though all of us Christians SHOULD be digging deep into scripture during these end times when mass deception is occurring News flash guys, not every popular teaching is biblical and true. I can tell you this, I do not have all the answers. I do not even have most of the answers. But I DEFINITELY know God confirmed this revelation to me of the truth of death being the punishment, and I looked at scripture to back it up to make sure it was God telling me that. And it turns out it was and it made perfect sense. At any rate, this is NOT a salvation issue by any means. I just think it is more comforting knowing the truth rather than believing a lie that was set up by the early catholic church for the very purpose to keep people out of the faith. I always knew there was something extremely funky about the doctrine of eternal torture chamber, people make fun of Christianity for that very reason and before I got saved even I knew it was a ridiculous concept. It just makes no sense at all and I think all of you know it isn't true but are scared to accept to it. I mean if you truly believe without a doubt that the majority of God's creation (remember the path to life is a narrow way and few will find it meaning the majority of the population will perish in hell) will be in torment for ETERNITY then you must have some psychological problem.... Even believing one evil person will suffer that fate is hard, but to think the majority of his creation (remember the path to life is narrow and few will find it) will suffer for eternity is downright impossible for any sane human being.
 
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DM25

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if death is eternal then there is no such thing as the resurrection of the dead. think about it.
What? There is more than one death... The bible even talks about the second death. There is the death of the physical body, and after that resurrection of the soul happens. And then there is the death of the soul, which happens in the lake of fire.

What I am still not sure about is where the wicked go before judgement. The Hebrew scriptures speak about Hades in the old testament and how there is a chasm between Abraham's blossom (the good side of Hades where it is a holding place for the righteous, it is not heaven though) and the side of Hades for the wicked. Now I'm not sure if these wicked beings are asleep there before judgement. Is torment going on now or are they simply asleep and in their grave? Is hell referring to the grave only? Somehow I find it hard to believe torment is happening now there but if someone has opinions on that I'd love to hear them. I do believe the righteous rest in Jesus and their souls go to heaven before judgement, because there were a couple verses that talked about the saints being in heaven. Both those who were delivered from Hades like Abraham and the saints after Jesus Christ. This is something that I am still looking into but of course I'm not spending too much time on these little details because there are more important concepts in the bible to learn about.
 
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SkyWriting

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.. but I am here to show you pure biblical evidence where God clearly states the punishment for sin is death.

The Wages for sin is death....
but...
This gift of God is....
 
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SkyWriting

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Revelation 20:14 "And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death"

The lake of fire is where hell ends.
 
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Der Alte

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A lot of people are just scared of the truth. The devil works in very sneaky ways. Because they have been so brainwashed by their pastors and worldly teachings their ultimate defense is rejecting the truth and labeling those who preach the truth as false teachers. That is all the devil's doing. It is too comfortable for them so they don't dig deeper, even though all of us Christians SHOULD be digging deep into scripture during these end times when mass deception is occurring News flash guys, not every popular teaching is biblical and true. I can tell you this, I do not have all the answers. I do not even have most of the answers. But I DEFINITELY know God confirmed this revelation to me of the truth of death being the punishment, and I looked at scripture to back it up to make sure it was God telling me that. And it turns out it was and it made perfect sense. At any rate, this is NOT a salvation issue by any means. I just think it is more comforting knowing the truth rather than believing a lie that was set up by the early catholic church for the very purpose to keep people out of the faith. I always knew there was something extremely funky about the doctrine of eternal torture chamber, people make fun of Christianity for that very reason and before I got saved even I knew it was a ridiculous concept. It just makes no sense at all and I think all of you know it isn't true but are scared to accept to it. I mean if you truly believe without a doubt that the majority of God's creation (remember the path to life is a narrow way and few will find it meaning the majority of the population will perish in hell) will be in torment for ETERNITY then you must have some psychological problem.... Even believing one evil person will suffer that fate is hard, but to think the majority of his creation (remember the path to life is narrow and few will find it) will suffer for eternity is downright impossible for any sane human being.
The early church fathers wrote about hell a thousand or so years before there was a "catholic church" to influence or change anything.
And 100s of years before and during the time of jesus and the disciples among the Jews there was a belief in a place of fiery, eternal punishment for the wicked and they called it both "Ge himnom" and Sheol."
GEHENNA - JewishEncyclopedia.com

Jesus never taught there was a second death.
 
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FineLinen

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The early church fathers wrote about hell a thousand or so years before there was a "catholic church" to influence or change anything.
And 100s of years before and during the time of jesus and the disciples among the Jews there was a belief in a place of fiery, eternal punishment for the wicked and they called it both "Ge himnom" and Sheol."
GEHENNA - JewishEncyclopedia.com

Jesus never taught there was a second death.

What the Church teaches -Chapter 4 of Christ Triumphant-

Christ Triumphant by Thomas Allin

Chapter 5 What the Church teaches -Continued-

Christ Triumphant by Thomas Allin

Preface

Chapter I -- The Question Stated


Chapter II -- The Popular Creed Wholly Untenable


Chapter III -- The Popular Creed Wholly Untenable (continued)


Chapter IV -- What the Church Teaches


Chapter V -- What the Church Teaches (continued)


Chapter VI -- Universalism and Creation


Chapter VII -- What the Old Testament Teaches


Chapter VIII -- What the New Testament Teaches
 
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Der Alte

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FineLinen said:
post #1150 What the Church teaches -Chapter 4 of Christ Triumphant-...
This appears to be a common ploy with universalists. Go to Tentmakers, which I refer to as "tents-r-us," copy/paste a bunch of stuff, post a bunch of links which often do not specifically address anything in the post they are responding to.
There used to be another site the UR-ites quoted a lot, "Hell busters."
I skimmed through the first link. "This guy said this, that guy said that, some other guy said something else." "This ECF was a universalist. This other ECF was a universalist. And yet another ECF was a universalist."Very little documentation.
Who are Andrew Jukes and Thomas Allin that we should care what they wrote? Do either of them have any expertise pertaining to this topic?
 
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FineLinen

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Who are Andrew Jukes and Thomas Allin that we should care what they wrote? Do either of them have any expertise pertaining to this topic?

Shep: with your vast knowledge of the Jewish E.. it is beyond my old life to grasp you do not know the calibre of Andrew Jukes. In an attempt to keep you informed I will present some of his work.

books by andrew jukes - Google Search

Andrew Jukes "scribblings"

Andrew Jukes
 
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DeeR.

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Before I begin I want to say that I am in no way one of those people who believe in annihilation to please my flesh or rely on my own understanding to make myself feel better.... "

Words have manifold meanings and applications as God shows us in many ways. The words you read that you interpret as ceasing to exist actually do not mean that at all. They mean ceasing to have "Life" first in one way and then a final way. Jesus IS Life as the Father IS Life. The choices individuals make about God " He who IS Life" is what He teaches that will forever remove LIFE/Himself from their existence who reject Him/Life. To Perish or be cast out forever is to be without Life/Love/Joy/Peace since He IS alone the source and place of all such things. To be apart from him is to be dead with no life. To perish or die is to not have life or be separated from life. God did not ever say or teach "If you do not follow me or do as I say I will make you cease to exist". He said when You choose to not Love or be with me You will choose to be without Life/Love since I AM all of these. His love is so great that He forces no one to Love or be with Him but allows them to walk away and have their own versions of such things which are hollow and will never satisfy or be Him or what He has/is.
 
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Hieronymus

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A lot of people are just scared of the truth. The devil works in very sneaky ways. Because they have been so brainwashed by their pastors and worldly teachings their ultimate defense is rejecting the truth and labeling those who preach the truth as false teachers. That is all the devil's doing. It is too comfortable for them so they don't dig deeper, even though all of us Christians SHOULD be digging deep into scripture during these end times when mass deception is occurring News flash guys, not every popular teaching is biblical and true. I can tell you this, I do not have all the answers. I do not even have most of the answers. But I DEFINITELY know God confirmed this revelation to me of the truth of death being the punishment, and I looked at scripture to back it up to make sure it was God telling me that. And it turns out it was and it made perfect sense. At any rate, this is NOT a salvation issue by any means.
I have struggled with the idea for some 2 years. It was hell to believe God would torture most people i know without end or outcome, for ever and ever, because He did not draw them towards Him.
I hated Him for it, which means i would end up there too.
Finally i found answers and proper Bible exegesis refuting the traditional doctrine.
I just think it is more comforting knowing the truth rather than believing a lie that was set up by the early catholic church for the very purpose to keep people out of the faith.
Or rather ensIaved to the church...
always knew there was something extremely funky about the doctrine of eternal torture chamber, people make fun of Christianity for that very reason and before I got saved even I knew it was a ridiculous concept.
People hate God for it. And i.mh.o. rightfully so.
Perfect doctrine to chase away kind hearted people and draw people who like the idea AND consider themselves saved.
 
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DeeR.

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Shep: with your vast knowledge of the Jewish Ency. it is beyond my old life to grasp you do not know the calibre of Andrew Jukes. In an attempt to keep you informed I will present some of his work.

books by andrew jukes - Google Search

Andrew Jukes "scribblings"

Andrew Jukes
We should never choose to belittle or be against people or words or ideas they have but rather we should be FOR truth & seek to do all things in Love & only be stern when needed with a heavy heart of Love and greater burden to seek to Love & understand more. It is enough to be for and speak the truth without having to be against or tear down what we do not agree with. God cares about what they have wrote and said and they themselves and the one quoting them, and so do I.
No one needs to prove anything, either. The proof is already there. We believe it or receive it or we may reject it, however, we may one day see differently. God will make it clear, but we must Love one another first and foremost in our speech, deeds and hearts.
 
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DeeR.

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I have struggled with the idea for some 2 years. It was hell to believe God would torture most people i know without end or outcome, for ever and ever, because He did not draw them towards Him.
I hated Him for it, which means i would end up there too.
Finally i found answers and proper Bible exegesis refuting the traditional doctrine. Or rather ensIaved to the church... People hate God for it. And i.mh.o. rightfully so.
Perfect doctrine to chase away kind hearted people and draw people who like the idea AND consider themselves saved.
It is good you have learned the truth and as we all will we will learn more and more on each matter. As to slandering or accrediting Catholics for such things, let us consider that we are not to judge /attribute whole groups with things like this... it becomes slander and prejudice. Catholics are not the cause of wrong doctrines but demons are as the scripture says. I've known plenty of Catholics and was one myself who do not believe these things.Let us say " the lies certain people choose to believe or merely state the truth and let God convict of it. Anything more and we may fall into sin and forget we are just messengers (suppose to be messengers of Grace and Known for Love).
 
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Hieronymus

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It is good you have learned the truth and as we all will we will learn more and more on each matter. As to slandering or accrediting Catholics for such things, let us consider that we are not to judge /attribute whole groups with things like this... it becomes slander and prejudice. Catholics are not the cause of wrong doctrines but demons are as the scripture says. I've known plenty of Catholics and was one myself who do not believe these things.Let us say " the lies certain people to choose to believe or merely state the truth and let god convict of it. Anything more and we may fall into sin and forget we are just messengers 9suppose to be messengers of Grace and Known for Love).
I'm not blaming Catholic members of the flock, but the Catholic institution (in this case, atlhough centuries ago), or any organized 'Christian' religion that spreads false teachings.
It makes me angry when i see people being deceived.
 
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FineLinen

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We should never choose to belittle or be against people or words or ideas they have. We should only seek to do all things in Love & only be stern when needed with a heavy heart of Love and greater burden to seek to Love & understand more. It is enough to be for and speak the truth without having to be against or tear down what we do not agree with. God cares about what they have wrote and said and they themselves and the one quoting them, and so do I.
No one needs to prove anything, either. The proof is already there. We believe it or receive it or we may we reject it, however, we may one day see differently. God will make it clear, but we must Love one another first and foremost in our speech, deeds and hearts.

Dear Dee: Thank you for a calibre post. I trust your sojourn on C.F. is an enhancing experience for you. May His love which is in the exceedingly abundant dimension be yours as you walk before Him

From Him, through Him, for Him
 
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