Is a loveless marriage really a marriage?

Dave-W

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Sex is not love , and in Heaven there will be none !
2 points:

"Sex is not love"
And yet there are 2 words in the bible (Hebrew dod and Greek eros) that are translated "love" that have sex as a main component.

"in Heaven there will be none !"
I realize this is a popular idea, but is entirely unfounded in scripture.
 
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Dave-W

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But you need sex at least once to 'be joined like one' like the bible says.
Chapter and verse, please.

Joseph and Mary were married but had not yet had sex. Are you saying that Jesus was born to an unwed mother?
 
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Dave-W

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Just so I understand your point, you are saying that the legal decree is what’s sacred rather than the love between spouses? (This is a sincere question not sarcasm)
It is a covenant commitment, rather than love or legal statements that God holds as sacred.
 
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Dave-W

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Love is a good thing. But I've been told in ancient times parents committed their sons and daughters in marriage previously unknown to each other.
Sometimes that was true. But it was not often.

In ancient Jewish culture, The parents would arrange the relationship, but would get the kids together asap. (age 6-9) The kids had right of refusal up until the marriage contract was negotiated and signed - age ~ 12-13. After that a formal divorce was required to sever the relationship.
 
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Sabertooth

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No RECORDED ceremony or vow.
Why would it have to be recorded?
My point was that consummation took place immediately. Any ceremony would have had to have been subsequent.
 
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Sabertooth

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That verse does not say the man and the prostitute are married.
Then someone is going to have to delineate between the "one flesh" in 1 Corinthians 6:16 and that of Genesis 2:24.
 
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Dave-W

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I have told many that in the USA 98% of the marriages were not "made in Heaven" or Holy Spirit urged, but they were done for selfish reasons without being given Biblical facts, Biblical instruction, and Biblical wisdom by a pastor who has a good marriage. No one has disagreed with that. So there are only a small number of eternal marriages.
Right on the first part, wrong on the 2nd. God holds us to our covenants, even when made for reasons other than His leading. In the book of Joshua, Israel makes a covenant with a group of Gideonites. God told them to not make agreements with any of the cities they were to take over, and the crafty men of Gibeon lied about where they lived. But God held them to the covenant anyway.

Marriages done for less than stellar reasons are similarly held by God to be permanent.
 
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Dave-W

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According to the OT law, if a woman became a widow, it was her husband's responsibility to marry her, without any caveat (that I am aware of) that he was not already married.
ONLY if the deceased brother left no heir to inherit his property.
 
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Dave-W

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But most marriages were not urged by the Holy Spirit, they were not "made in Heaven". They were made by selfishness for daily sex or/and higher status or popularity.
So?
 
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Dave-W

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Then someone is going to have to delineate between the "one flesh" in 1 Corinthians 6:16 and that of Genesis 2:24.
Not really.

Sex causes a physical and spiritual linkage called "one flesh" in Hebrew. The ancient Jews did not differentiate between spirit soul and body like the Greeks did and we do. "Flesh" often referred to the whole person.

Both passages are talking about the linkage caused by sex, NOT the binding together of covenant commitment. As Dr Derek Prince put it in the back of his 1976 booklet "Discipleship, Shepherding, Commitment,"

514PbJVU5lL._SX303_BO1,204,203,200_.jpg


Sex is so deeply linking, but so weak, that when it tears apart it does great damage to those so linked. That is why God limited it to the much stronger bond of the Marriage Covenant in order to keep from damaging both people.
 
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Dave L

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Not really.

Sex causes a physical and spiritual linkage called "one flesh" in Hebrew. The ancient Jews did not differentiate between spirit soul and body like the Greeks did and we do. "Flesh" often referred to the whole person.

Both passages are talking about the linkage caused by sex, NOT the binding together of covenant commitment. As Dr Derek Prince put it in the back of his 1976 booklet "Discipleship, Shepherding, Commitment,"

514PbJVU5lL._SX303_BO1,204,203,200_.jpg


Sex is so deeply linking, but so weak, that when it tears apart it does great damage to those so linked. That is why God limited it to the much stronger bond of the Marriage Covenant in order to keep from damaging both people.
I think Paul warns against becoming one flesh with a hooker. Not marriage in any sense.
 
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Dave-W

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I think Paul warns against becoming one flesh with a hooker. Not marriage in any sense.
Paul is warning against ALL sex outside of marriage, warning that even the most "casual" non-marital sex will cause the linkage. Without the strong bands of covenant love, it will end up very badly.
 
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NBB

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Chapter and verse, please.

Joseph and Mary were married but had not yet had sex. Are you saying that Jesus was born to an unwed mother?

You leave your mother and father and will join to your wife to be like one.

And

Don't you know if you join to a prostitute you become one with her?

I don't think you can be one flesh with your wife only by making vows.
 
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Dave-W

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You leave your mother and father and will join to your wife to be like one.
"Like??" Who said anything about "like?"

Mark 10:8
and the two shall become one flesh; so they are no longer two, but one flesh.
"Like" says they are still two. The text says they are one.
I don't think you can be one flesh with your wife only by making vows.
But you admit that if you make vows, she is a wife. Therefore a marriage has taken place.
 
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Roseonathorn

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It is truly hard for someone, especially someone, that does not live under the same roof to judge someones marriage. It is not easy to divorce, or cheap, how much do You value 12 out of 14 days with Your kids? Rather try a little longer?
What one time was genuine love between two young rather innocent people once has maybe been torn, tempted, terrorized, brutalized from all sides by your own shortcomings, other people, life, catastrophies, sickness, death, accidents, selfishness, greed, inappropriate content, pride, whatever that usually makes humans fall from grace and love from each other.
Actually there is one day that You notice that You do love Yourself more than Your spouse. That is when You see that Your spouse loves Himself more than You, at all times - always, no matter what subject You discuss or piece of cake You share He takes the bigger one, if He even shares, You might find some good things You used to share hidden in His private places too by mistake one day, then You think that You must care for Yourself at times, because otherwise nobody will, that is the bitter day of spiritual marital divorse, of course You can still smile and try to love but there will be a wound, a loneliness.
You have to love Yourself a little too in order to discipline Yourself and be loved by someone else, but somehow we quit loving and disciplining ourselves after we are married to the same degree as we did before, it is like we quit riding the bike when we get a drivinglicence and get a worse health. We had to go by bike before because we had no car. So I do not know about You but I biked sometimes 20 km to and with my friends. 40 km in one day was not unusual.
 
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Monna

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Practically speaking, any religion has a constitutional right that would be contravened if a state interfered with such a marriage.

You are speaking of States in the USA. This "constitutional right" is not so in most other countries. There are countries that allow/recognise "customary marriages" as distinct from "civil marriages" (those performed under specifically recognised authorities and licencees.

But you picque my curiosity, RDK ... can you give me a reference substantiating your claim that "any religion has a constitutional right" to perform marriages, please.
 
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