2 Thess 2:12 teaches eternal security

Gr8Grace said:

I don't care what the shmorshadox church taught. I have the bible to support my claims.

We are sealed by the Spirit for the day of redemption.

We will never perish.

We have eternal life.

Eternal life is a Gift from God.

His Gifts are irrevocable.

You can stick with a bunch of dudes that obviously didn't study to show themselves approved.....no wonder they morphed in the catholic 'church.'

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They “morphed” in the Catholic Church? What does that mean?

LightLoveHope said:

Imagine heaven would be continual war with no end, no justice, no truth, because sin is not a problem, only they believe God is King.

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Why do you continue to misrepresent what we say? No need to answer, I know why.

We have pounded this home, time and time again. Sin is a HUGE problem for believers if they continue to live in it. There is no fellowship.There is divine discipline, harsh if need be. There is possible loss of blessings,rewards,reign,inheritance and possibly even physical,painful death.........but the gift of God,our eternal life ,is irrevocable.
So you need not misrepresent us any longer on this subject.

And when we die, Our human spirit or new creation in Christ, that CANNOT sin goes to be face to face with our Lord and Savior. The carnal,sinful flesh is put in the grave, because sin cannot enter the eternal state.
So you need not misrepresent us any longer on this subject.

And we don't believe God is King to be saved. We trust in the person and work of the Lord Jesus Christ on His cross for our salvation.
So you need not misrepresent us any longer on this subject.

BNR32FAN said:

They “morphed” in the Catholic Church? What does that mean?

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You should have this figured out if you follow the shmorshadox church.

Who holds to baptismal regeneration? Who holds to elder rule? Who holds to church salvation? The catholic church, that's who.

Who were the very first to propagate these heresies? You guessed it........the early church fathers.

And who preserves these writings and puts them up as the gospel truth? You guessed it.......the Roman catholic church.

Gr8Grace said:

We have pounded this home, time and time again. Sin is a HUGE problem for believers if they continue to live in it. There is no fellowship.There is divine discipline, harsh if need be. There is possible loss of blessings,rewards,reign,inheritance and possibly even physical,painful death.........but the gift of God,our eternal life ,is irrevocable.
So you need not misrepresent us any longer on this subject.

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Missrepresent sinner believers, who do not believe in righteous walking, do not support being light to a dark world, do not support building their house upon the rock of Christ in obedience to His word, do not believe the work of the Holy Spirit is to make us Children of God, with open hearts, purified, clean made whole.

Some attempt to make righteousness so distant, it is only condemnation, who say reading the sermon the mount or the law is just condemning oneself.

Sinner believing churchs are places of emptiness and no fellowship. This is just religion with ceremonies and feel good sermons. So rather than real theology it is all fake, skipping over serious issues, and not facing the emotions and tumult within, because let that out, would just be destruction, because the Lord does not dwell in these places.

But if people just see Jesus on the cross, His unbelievable love and call to life, through giving up the life we know for the life of heaven, amen.

So I cannot miss-represent that which is not scriptural or from the Lord.

Gr8Grace said:

And when we die, Our human spirit or new creation in Christ, that CANNOT sin goes to be face to face with our Lord and Savior. The carnal,sinful flesh is put in the grave, because sin cannot enter the eternal state.
So you need not misrepresent us any longer on this subject.

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This is pure gnosticism.
The flesh is evil and the true cause of sin.
The spirit is perfect and eternal and will raise to life.

It is not christianity, and has been a heresy from the 3rd century.
It is hard to miss-represent this theology, because it is neither scriptural or makes any real sense. It is the schizophrenic split of responsibility for sin into the evil flesh and the pure spirit.

It supposes that we are not a total being, body, mind and spirit, which cannot be sub-divided. If our problem with sin is our emotions or passions and the hurt of rejection and loneliness from our birth, and the solution is love and openness to Christ, communion with the Holy Spirit so we can walk blamelessly, then put simply you are dooming people to judgement, and failure.

And there will be no peace with your group, because your aim is to destroy the church and replace it with gnosticism, or a version of easy believism.

I am not going to ask for you to agree with me, I am just simply stating how things are and what will happen over time.

The people of light demonstrate the meaning of these words, the Holy Spirit dwelling in man.

LightLoveHope said:

Missrepresent sinner believers, who do not believe in righteous walking, do not support being light to a dark world, do not support building their house upon the rock of Christ in obedience to His word, do not believe the work of the Holy Spirit is to make us Children of God, with open hearts, purified, clean made whole.

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This makes no sense.

LightLoveHope said:

This is pure gnosticism.
The flesh is evil and the true cause of sin.
The spirit is perfect and eternal and will raise to life.

It is not christianity, and has been a heresy from the 3rd century.

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You don't even know what Gnosticism is Peter. You just picked up that 'smoke screen' from a poster on another forum........because you can't refute the truth.

Gnosticism

Once you believe in a pure spirit held in a sinful flesh body, ofcourse you are powerless against sin or impulses or anything, because it is not you, just part of being a human.

The problem with this theory is Jesus. He was a flesh human, who had all the constraints and problems we had yet was sinless.

The apostles said they lived Holy lives, blamelessly, yet had the same flesh bodies as us. So christianity has never been gnostic.

This reminds me of an effort to change the meaning of all the words of scripture to mean something different that they have since Jesus walked the earth and Moses wrote the pentateuch. By doing this you can keep the same bible but believe it means something different, so have faith yet not.

The strangest thing was people saying repentance was just changing your mind.
It defied belief in language, Nineveh in sack cloth and ashes, changed behaviour to plead for mercy against judgement.

But is you only read a few biblical passages, change the words a bit, and you can feel happy about your religious life.

This truly shows the power of emotions over facts. To keep the emotions happy you change the facts.

Gr8Grace said:

You don't even know what Gnosticism is Peter. You just picked up that 'smoke screen' from a poster on another forum........because you can't refute the truth.

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I spent a good 18 months discussing this very issue.
Obviously you are unaware of theology and history gnostic ideas.

Gnosticism from wikipedia
Gnosticism says that humans are divine souls trapped in the ordinary physical (or material) world. They say that the world was made by an imperfect spirit.

The imperfect spirit is thought to be the same as the God of Abraham. The imperfect spirit may be seen as evil, or sometimes just not perfect but doing the best it can.

The real God who is good, is distant and not easy to know. In order to get free from the material world, a person has to get gnosis. That is the special secret knowledge given only to a few special people.

Gr8Grace said:

you can't refute the truth

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This is an interesting proposition.
I cannot refute you follow a gnostic gospel.

And you can interpret scripture if you want from a gnostic perspective.
There are traditions that claim Jesus never came in the flesh like we are, except for this passage.

The Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us. We have seen his glory, the glory of the One and Only, who came from the Father, full of grace and truth.
John testifies concerning him. He cries out, saying, "This was he of whom I said, 'He who comes after me has surpassed me because he was before me.'"
John 1:14-15

Who, being in very nature God, did not consider equality with God something to be grasped, but made himself nothing, taking the very nature of a servant, being made in human likeness. And being found in appearance as a man, he humbled himself and became obedient to death--even death on a cross!
philippians 2:6-8

The life appeared; we have seen it and testify to it, and we proclaim to you the eternal life, which was with the Father and has appeared to us.
We proclaim to you what we have seen and heard, so that you also may have fellowship with us. And our fellowship is with the Father and with his Son, Jesus Christ.
1 John 1:2-3

A gnostic belief is the flesh is evil, and the spirit is pure, holy, eternal.

I saw a tv program where a prophet claimed that the audience could be born eternally from heaven with a new heart. They just had to ask God to give them an eternal heart and He would. So they prayed and asked, and then this prophet claimed they were now eternal beings with perfect spirits.

It is this kind of superficial joke that makes me laugh.

LightLoveHope said:

I spent a good 18 months discussing this very issue.

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Well it seems you didn't comprehend much.

LightLoveHope said:

Obviously you are unaware of theology and history gnostic ideas.

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Yet, you just called me Gnostic. So which is it?

LightLoveHope said:

Gnosticism from wikipedia
Gnosticism says that humans are divine souls trapped in the ordinary physical (or material) world. They say that the world was made by an imperfect spirit.

The imperfect spirit is thought to be the same as the God of Abraham. The imperfect spirit may be seen as evil, or sometimes just not perfect but doing the best it can.

The real God who is good, is distant and not easy to know. In order to get free from the material world, a person has to get gnosis. That is the special secret knowledge given only to a few special people.

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And it would be my guess, that this is as far as your 18 months got you. Wiki?

This is why I said you don't even know what gnosticism is. Because it in NO WAY relates to my quote.

You just liked the smoke screen the other poster used, about 18 months ago if I remember right, and you know his few talking points about gnosticism

FreeGrace2 said:

I said:
"We are supposed to trust in Jesus Christ and His work on the cross."

I was corrrecting your error. Your summary completely disagrees with the Bible, as I showed.

The only thing I "do" with Scripture is believe it.

How can you take yourself seriously, when you don't believe what the Savior says?

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Are you a gnostic believer like gg? Perfect spirit, evil flesh.

LightLoveHope said:

This is an interesting proposition.
I cannot refute you follow a gnostic gospel.

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No need to. gnosticism is unbiblical.

LightLoveHope said:

And you can interpret scripture if you want from a gnostic perspective.

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Well, if you do you will go off the rails.

LightLoveHope said:

There are traditions that claim Jesus never came in the flesh like we are, except for this passage.

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So what are you saying here? Your tradition does not believe He came in the flesh? To me He clearly did. The passages you quoted prove it.

I question you believe those passages because He clearly says we will never perish in John 10:28.....but your tradition doesn't believe it.