Prophecy verses to note in your Bible/NT.

vinsight4u said:

Among them will the two witnesses

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11:3-4 “The two witnesses,” which are said to be “two olive trees” and “two candlesticks,” represent the Old and New Testaments. The olive trees represent the power of the Holy Spirit. The candlesticks symbolize the spiritual light of the scriptures. Psalm 119:105; Zechariah 4:1-14. The two witnesses were to “prophesy…in sackcloth,” symbolizing mourning. The Bible was not readily available to the common people. There are several reasons for this:

1. It was only available in Hebrew, Greek and Latin;
2. It had to be copied by hand so there were few copies;
3. During religious services both scripture reading and sermons were in Latin;
4. The church’s stance was that since the common people could not understand the Bible, the clergy must interpret it for them;
5. Even after the Bible was translated into the common language of the people, the church forbade them to read it.

5And if any man will hurt them, fire proceedeth out of their mouth, and devoureth their enemies: and if any man will hurt them, he must in this manner be killed.

6These have power to shut heaven, that it rain not in the days of their prophecy: and have power over waters to turn them to blood, and to smite the earth with all plagues, as often as they will.

11:5-6 There is a penalty for misrepresenting Bible truths and teaching error, Revelation 22:18. Here the “two witnesses” are represented as bringing Some Old Testament style punishment on those who “hurt” the scriptures by their false teachings. Medieval Europe suffered terribly from wars, famines and disease that killing millions of people because of the church’s rejection of the scriptures.

Revelation 11 Commentary

Thank you as I have been studying Revelation and I am seeing this same thing. Mark 13:24-27 tells us the same.

Original Happy Camper said:

11:3-4 “The two witnesses,” which are said to be “two olive trees” and “two candlesticks,” represent the Old and New Testaments. The olive trees represent the power of the Holy Spirit. The candlesticks symbolize the spiritual light of the scriptures. Psalm 119:105; Zechariah 4:1-14. The two witnesses were to “prophesy…in sackcloth,” symbolizing mourning. The Bible was not readily available to the common people. There are several reasons for this:

1. It was only available in Hebrew, Greek and Latin;
2. It had to be copied by hand so there were few copies;
3. During religious services both scripture reading and sermons were in Latin;
4. The church’s stance was that since the common people could not understand the Bible, the clergy must interpret it for them;
5. Even after the Bible was translated into the common language of the people, the church forbade them to read it.

5And if any man will hurt them, fire proceedeth out of their mouth, and devoureth their enemies: and if any man will hurt them, he must in this manner be killed.

6These have power to shut heaven, that it rain not in the days of their prophecy: and have power over waters to turn them to blood, and to smite the earth with all plagues, as often as they will.

11:5-6 There is a penalty for misrepresenting Bible truths and teaching error, Revelation 22:18. Here the “two witnesses” are represented as bringing Some Old Testament style punishment on those who “hurt” the scriptures by their false teachings. Medieval Europe suffered terribly from wars, famines and disease that killing millions of people because of the church’s rejection of the scriptures.

Revelation 11 Commentary

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What is being symbolized by the Witnesses being killed , laying in the street for 3.5 days , then coming to life and being taken up to heaven ?

7And when they have finished their testimony, the beast that rises from the bottomless pit

a will make war on them and conquer them and kill them,

8and their dead bodies will lie in the street of the great city that symbolically

b is called Sodom and Egypt, where their Lord was crucified.

9For three and a half days some from the peoples and tribes and languages and nations will gaze at their dead bodies and refuse to let them be placed in a tomb,

10and those who dwell on the earth will rejoice over them and make merry and exchange presents, because these two prophets had been a torment to those who dwell on the earth.

11But after the three and a half days a breath of life from God entered them, and they stood up on their feet, and great fear fell on those who saw them.

12Then they heard a loud voice from heaven saying to them, “Come up here!” And they went up to heaven in a cloud, and their enemies watched them.

I don't know who they are but it's clear to me their actual people. Not ideas or symbols

I am starting to change my pre-trib outlook to a Revelation 6 rapture after my studies on this lately

Southernscotty said:

I am starting to change my pre-trib outlook to a Revelation 6 rapture after my studies on this lately

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I came to the same conclusion several years ago. I recommend the following : Nelson Walters , Chris White , Charles Cooper. For a quick look tedmontgomery.com

Berean Tim said:

What is being symbolized by the Witnesses being killed , laying in the street for 3.5 days , then coming to life and being taken up to heaven ?

7And when they have finished their testimony, the beast that rises from the bottomless pit

a will make war on them and conquer them and kill them,

8and their dead bodies will lie in the street of the great city that symbolically

b is called Sodom and Egypt, where their Lord was crucified.

9For three and a half days some from the peoples and tribes and languages and nations will gaze at their dead bodies and refuse to let them be placed in a tomb,

10and those who dwell on the earth will rejoice over them and make merry and exchange presents, because these two prophets had been a torment to those who dwell on the earth.

11But after the three and a half days a breath of life from God entered them, and they stood up on their feet, and great fear fell on those who saw them.

12Then they heard a loud voice from heaven saying to them, “Come up here!” And they went up to heaven in a cloud, and their enemies watched them.

I don't know who they are but it's clear to me their actual people. Not ideas or symbols

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History is prophecy fulfilled
Prophecy is history in advance

11:7-10 At the end of the 1,260 years when the “two witnesses” “have finished” prophesying “clothed in sackcloth” the beast comes out of the “bottomless pit” to “make war against them,” “and kill them.” The excesses and corruption of the Papal Church System and the church-supported aristocracy got so bad that their firmest supporter, France, became their worst enemy. This nation not only rejected Catholicism but God Himself; they cast out all morals and everything Christian and set up a new religion glorifying man, reason, and intellect of gods.

During “The Reign of Terror” in France, the Bible was not only openly rejected but was also forbidden and publicly burned. For “three days and a half” (symbolizing 3.5 literal years) the Bible would appear to be “dead.” For three and a half years the Revolutionaries of France did all in their power to oppose and destroy the Bible.

France embraced an atheistic philosophy/religion and became part of the “great city” of false religions. Its characteristics are symbolized by “Sodom and Egypt where also our lord was crucified.” “Sodom” is a notorious Biblical symbol for sexual perversion. Genesis 19:4-11; Jude 7. “Egypt” symbolizes atheism: “Who is the Lord that I should obey His voice to let Israel go?” Exodus 5:2. “Where also our Lord was crucified” represents Christ, crucified in the person of His faithful followers when they are persecuted. John 13:20; Matthew 25:40, 45. In Hebrews 6:4-6 those who once loved Christ and are guilty of willful apostasy are said to “crucify… the Son of God afresh.” France during the French Revolution embraced sexual licentiousness and atheism, rejected the Bible, and persecuted all Christians, both the true and the false together.

Revelation 11 Commentary

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vinsight4u said:

1 Corinthians 1:6 mentions those that the dragon will chase.
"...the testimony of Christ was confirmed in you."

Revelation 12:17
"...have the testimony of Jesus Christ."

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Bible def of the above statement

Revelation 19:10
And I fell at his feet to worship him. And he said unto me, See thou do it not: I am thy fellow servant, and of thy brethren that have the testimony of Jesus: worship God: for the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy.

Original Happy Camper said:

History is prophecy fulfilled
Prophecy is history in advance

11:7-10 At the end of the 1,260 years when the “two witnesses” “have finished” prophesying “clothed in sackcloth” the beast comes out of the “bottomless pit” to “make war against them,” “and kill them.” The excesses and corruption of the Papal Church System and the church-supported aristocracy got so bad that their firmest supporter, France, became their worst enemy. This nation not only rejected Catholicism but God Himself; they cast out all morals and everything Christian and set up a new religion glorifying man, reason, and intellect of gods.

During “The Reign of Terror” in France, the Bible was not only openly rejected but was also forbidden and publicly burned. For “three days and a half” (symbolizing 3.5 literal years) the Bible would appear to be “dead.” For three and a half years the Revolutionaries of France did all in their power to oppose and destroy the Bible.

France embraced an atheistic philosophy/religion and became part of the “great city” of false religions. Its characteristics are symbolized by “Sodom and Egypt where also our lord was crucified.” “Sodom” is a notorious Biblical symbol for sexual perversion. Genesis 19:4-11; Jude 7. “Egypt” symbolizes atheism: “Who is the Lord that I should obey His voice to let Israel go?” Exodus 5:2. “Where also our Lord was crucified” represents Christ, crucified in the person of His faithful followers when they are persecuted. John 13:20; Matthew 25:40, 45. In Hebrews 6:4-6 those who once loved Christ and are guilty of willful apostasy are said to “crucify… the Son of God afresh.” France during the French Revolution embraced sexual licentiousness and atheism, rejected the Bible, and persecuted all Christians, both the true and the false together.

Revelation 11 Commentary

The Day-Year Principle - Powered by Kayako Resolve Help Desk Software

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Sorry, I just can't seem to symbolize verses that don't need to be. Days = years ?, their refused burial , people send gifts to each other ? I see actual future events. To symbolize the verses to fit some historical event concerns me.
Many hold to your position. I believe we all see "darkly now" I also believe it will get clearer as the day draws near to those looking.
Thanks for your response

The birth of the Lamb, the Great Chief Shepherd

Revelation 12:5 [Matthew 2:6 Luke 2:7]
and she brought forth a Son, male,
Who is about to be shepherding<4165> all the nations in iron rod/staff.

Revelation 2:27 [Psalms 2:9]
‘He shall shepherd<4165> them with a rod of iron;
They shall be dashed to pieces like the potter’s vessels’—
as I also have received from My Father;
Revelation 7:17 [Isaiah 25:8 Isaiah 65:19 John 4:14]
“for the Lamb who is in the midst of the throne will shepherd<4165> them and lead them to living fountains of waters.
And God will wipe away every tear from their eyes.”
Revelation 21:4
“And God will wipe away every tear from their eyes; there shall be no more death, nor sorrow, nor crying.
There shall be no more pain, for the former things have passed away.”

Matthew 2:6 [Micah 5:2]
And you, Bethlehem, land of Judah, are by no means least among the rulers of Judah,
for out of you will come forth One leading,
Who shall be shepherding<4165> My people Israel.'"
Luke 2:7 [Revelation 12:5]
and she gave birth to her Firstborn, a Son.
She wrapped Him in cloths and placed Him in a manger, because there was no guest room available for them.
Matthew 9:36
But when He saw the multitudes, He was moved with compassion for them,
because they were weary/harassed, and scattered like sheep having no shepherd<4166>
Matthew 25:32
“All the nations will be gathered before Him, and He will separate them one from another,
as a shepherd<4166> divides his sheep from the goats.
Matthew 26:31
Then Jesus said to them, “All of you will be made to stumble because of Me this night, for it is written:
‘I will strike the Shepherd<4166>,
And the sheep of the flock will be scattered.’[Zechariah 13:7]
John 10:
2 “But he who enters by the door is the shepherd<4166> of the sheep.
11 “I am the good shepherd<4166>.
The good shepherd<4166> gives His life for the sheep.
16 “And other sheep I have which are not of this fold; them also I must bring,
and they will hear My voice;
and there will be one flock/Nation and One Shepherd/King<4167>.[Ezekiel 37:22]

Act 20:
28 “Therefore take heed to yourselves and to all the flock, among which the Holy Spirit has made you overseers,
to shepherd<4168> the church of God which He purchased with His own blood.
29 “For I know this,
that after my departure wolves, weighty, will come in among you, not sparing the flock<4168>.[Matthew 23:4]
1 Peter 2:25
For you were like sheep going astray, but have now returned to the Shepherd<4166> and Overseer of your souls.
1 Peter 5:2
Shepherd<4168> the flock of God which is among you, serving as overseers, not by compulsion but willingly, not for dishonest gain but eagerly;
1 Peter 5:4
and when the Chief Shepherd<4166> appears,
you will receive the crown of glory that does not fade away.
Hebrews 13:20
Now may the God of peace who brought up our Lord Jesus from the dead, that Great Shepherd<4166> of the sheep,
through the blood of the everlasting covenant,

..........................


.

Luke 21 and Revelation
Amos 9:4
Though they go into captivity before their enemies,
From there I will command the sword,
And it shall slay them.
I will set My eyes on them for harm and not for good.”

Jeremiah 15:2
“And it shall be, if they say to you, ‘Where should we go?' then you shall tell them, ‘Thus says the LORD:
“Such as are for death, to death;
And such as are for the sword, to the sword;
And such as are for the famine, to the famine;
And such as are for the captivity, to the captivity.” '

Is Jesus talking about the Saints also here?

Luke 21:24
And they shall be falling to mouth of sword and they shall be being led captive into all the nations.
And Jerusalem shall be being trodden by nations until which may be being filled times of nations.
[Deuteronomy 28:68/Reve 11:2/13:10]

Revelation 13:10
If any to-captivity into captivity is going away.
If any in sword to be killed, is binding him in sword to be killed.
Here is the endurance and the faith of the Saints

Daniel 11:33
“And those of the people who understand shall instruct many;
yet for many days
they shall fall by sword and flame,
by captivity and plundering.

The Destruction of Jerusalem - George Peter Holford, 1805AD
The Destruction of Jerusalem

The day on which Titus encompassed Jerusalem, was the feast of the Passover................

Of the Jews destroyed during the siege, Josephus reckons not less than ONE MILLION AND ONE HUNDRED THOUSAND, .................
Of the captives the whole was about NINETY-SEVEN THOUSAND.

........the tallest and most beautiful youths, together with several of the Jewish nobles were reserved by Titus to grace his triumphal entry into Rome.
After this selection, all above the age of seventeen were sent in chains into Egypt, to be employed there as slaves,
or distributed throughout the empire to be sacrificed as gladiators in the amphitheatres ;
whilst those who were under this age, were exposed to sale.[Deuteronomy 28:68]

Deuteronomy 28:
15 If, however, you do not obey Yahweh thy Elohim by carefully following all His commandments and statutes I am giving you today, all these curses will come upon you and overtake you:

67 In the morning you will say, ‘If only it were evening!’ and in the evening you will say, ‘If only it were morning!’—because of the dread in your hearts of the terrifying sights you will see.
68 “And Yahweh will take you back to Egypt in ships, by the way of which I said to you, ‘You shall never see it again.'
And there you shall be offered for sale to your enemies as male and female slaves, but no one will buy you.”



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vinsight4u said in post #1:

Luke 21 shows that our redemption is after we see the things.

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That's right (Luke 21:28).

And Luke 21:28 shows that the Church's rapture will be at Jesus Christ's future, Second Coming (in Luke 21:27). For the rapture will be the time of obedient Christians' ultimate redemption (Romans 8:23-25; 1 Corinthians 15:21-23,51-53; 1 Thessalonians 4:14-18).

Luke 21:27 refers to the same Second Coming of Jesus Christ as Matthew 24:30, Revelation 19:7 to 20:6, and Zechariah 14:3-21, which will not occur until "immediately after" (Matthew 24:29) the future Tribulation of Matthew 24, Luke 21, Mark 13, and Revelation chapters 6 to 18, including after a future pillaging of Jerusalem which will occur at the very end of the Tribulation, right before Jesus Himself returns and saves the Jews in Jerusalem, destroys the world's armies, which came against Jerusalem, and sets up the capital of the Millennial aspect of His Kingdom in Jerusalem (Zechariah 14, Micah 4:1-4).

So Luke 21:28 refers only to the signs which will accompany Jesus Christ's future, Second Coming (Luke 21:25-27, Matthew 24:29-30), not to the events which will occur during the preceding Tribulation (Luke 21:8-24).

vinsight4u said in post #1:

/the day of Christ - the day of the Lord
that day doesn't start till after the moon has turned to blood
Joel 2 shows this.

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That's right. For:

Joel 2:31 The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before the great and the terrible day of the LORD come.

This means that the sixth seal (Revelation 6:12) of the future Tribulation will occur only a few years before the Second Coming. For the future Day of the Lord (Christ) (2 Thessalonians 2:2) will begin at the Lord Jesus Christ's Second Coming (1 Corinthians 1:7-8; 2 Thessalonians 2:1-8; 2 Thessalonians 1:7-10), which will not occur until Revelation 19:7 to 20:6, "immediately after" the future Tribulation of Revelation chapters 6 to 18 and Matthew 24 (Matthew 24:29-31; 2 Thessalonians 2:1-8), which is when the rapture (the gathering together) of the Church will occur (Matthew 24:29-31; 2 Thessalonians 2:1-8, Revelation 19:7 to 20:6).