Trump thinks you need to show ID to buy cereal

LoAmmi said:

Would it be ok to require the registration of firearms?

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Off topic, but I would not mind it. I know a lot of people are not, though.

USincognito said:

Not sure if it's all retailers, but I know Walmart processes a check like a debit transaction. They run it through a scanner and it gets processed immediately. The days of check kiting are gone.

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Ah, I still fondly remember my younger days as a paper hanger…

DaisyDay said:

How stringent should that proof be? Why isn't a state or county issued student id, for instance, considered sufficient proof when a hunting license is?

America was founded on the right to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness - what is the attendant responsibility that comes with that?

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Because only certain demographics hunt…

DaisyDay said:

How stringent should that proof be? Why isn't a state or county issued student id, for instance, considered sufficient proof when a hunting license is?

America was founded on the right to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness - what is the attendant responsibility that comes with that?

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With our representative form of government, proof of residency within the district/city/county/state/country you are voting in should be the minimum. If I reside in District A, I should not be able to vote for District B issues/politicians, right? Residing in Washington State, I cannot vote for politicians in California. If one is not a legal citizen, why should they have a legal right to vote?

BigDaddy4 said:

I guess someone is not paying attention and is distracted by their anti-Trump agenda.

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Is this supposed to answer my question:
All these mental gymnastics to defend Trump are entertaining, but what does any of this have to do with his false claim - Trump: "if you buy a box of cereal — you have a voter ID."
Because it doesn't.

BigDaddy4 said:

Off topic, but I would not mind it. I know a lot of people are not, though.

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I don't see it as off-topic. The topic is the right to vote being gated behind an ID compared to the right to own a gun being gated behind needing to register it. Often people who are for voter ID are completely against registering guns. I appreciate you not minding.

BigDaddy4 said:

I don't know about a figure of speech, but many posters on this thread talk about paying with debit/credit cards. In order to obtain such payment methods, do you not have to provide some sort of ID? My bank wanted photo ID to set up my new checking/savings account. I needed to also provide them with a SSN. All credit card issuers that I know of require at least a SSN, along with a mailing address and a signature (either physical or electronic). To grant you a credit card, they will undoubtedly run a credit history check to verify your information.

How is this philosophically different than obtaining a voter ID?

So when you buy a box of cereal, the most widely used methods are by debit/credit card or check (which the store may or may not require ID to cash, but your bank has already required you to provide verifiable ID to grant you the account in the first place). Make fun of Trump's comment all you want, but the reality is most Americans have had to provide some form of verifiable ID similar to voter ID requirements at some point in the purchase cycle for that box of cereal.

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All of my credit cards have been obtained without providing an ID. Opening a bank account and obtaining a debit card does. That being said, Trump's statement, which he has now essentially made twice, as he previously said "you need an ID to buy groceries", is just as much a lie as Obama's "if you like your doctor, you can keep your doctor", which is to say, it is a statement that can be correct for some situations, but really needs to be heavily caveated for it to be a true statement.

Yet, we had the right howling about Obama's doctor statement for years and years (they still point that out as Obama's biggest lie), yet defend Trump on a statement which has the same factual merit. Moreover, this lie of Trump's is one of his more tepid lies - he has many lies which so directly contradict observable fact, it seems obtuse to say ("I had the largest electoral college victory since Reagan", "we have already had 200 bodies returned from North Korea"), yet his supporters defend those as well.

Yes, when Obama told a lie, we talked about it for years.

When, Trump tells a lie, it is no big deal. It really isn't.

whatbogsends said:

All of my credit cards have been obtained without providing an ID. Opening a bank account and obtaining a debit card does. That being said, Trump's statement, which he has now essentially made twice, as he previously said "you need an ID to buy groceries", is just as much a lie as Obama's "if you like your doctor, you can keep your doctor", which is to say, it is a statement that can be correct for some situations, but really needs to be heavily caveated for it to be a true statement.

Yet, we had the right howling about Obama's doctor statement for years and years (they still point that out as Obama's biggest lie), yet defend Trump on a statement which has the same factual merit. Moreover, this lie of Trump's is one of his more tepid lies - he has many lies which so directly contradict observable fact, it seems obtuse to say ("I had the largest electoral college victory since Reagan", "we have already had 200 bodies returned from North Korea"), yet his supporters defend those as well.

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whatbogsends said:

All of my credit cards have been obtained without providing an ID.

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Not even a SSN, an address, or a phone number? If you obtained a copy of your credit report, would it have those credit cards on them?

BigDaddy4 said:

Not even a SSN, an address, or a phone number? If you obtained a copy of your credit report, would it have those credit cards on them?

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Your social security card is not a valid voter ID in many states that require one. Around half of voter ID laws require a photo ID.

BigDaddy4 said:

Not even a SSN, an address, or a phone number? If you obtained a copy of your credit report, would it have those credit cards on them?

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I probably provided my SSN (my card is over 20 years old, I know I got it by mail). I didn't provide picture ID to get my card.

Moreover, claiming that you have indirectly previously used ID to get the credit card to purchase cereal is not the same thing as claiming "you need ID" to purchase cereal. Form of payment is entirely optional, and one can purchase cereal with cash. It's a bogus claim, and you're jumping through hoops to try to make it somewhat truish in a roundabout fashion.

HTacianas said:

I've been asked for ID before buying groceries by credit card. The idea that we are asked to regularly show an ID in our daily lives is hardly strange.

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It’s an unusual idea for someone not living there - so that actually is a regular feature of shopping in the US? I’ve never been asked for ID, ever, in a shop, anywhere in Europe. In the UK if a person looks under 18 and they’re trying to buy alcohol or some other thing with an age restriction, they’ll get asked. I can’t think of any situation in which an older person would. It’s pretty rare for people to use cheques (I’m not sure if there are still many places that accept them), but the card from the same account is usually used to as a guarantee card (if they still have those).

Tom Farebrother said:

It’s an unusual idea for someone not living there - so that actually is a regular feature of shopping in the US?

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Not so much anymore. I've been regularly shopping with a credit/debit card for around 10 years now and I can't remember the last time I had to show ID. I'm reasonably certain that I could count every time I've had to show ID for a credit purchase on one hand.

I prefer to pay with cash
however, one day didn't have enough cash but had my checkbook for some reason

store let me write check and didn't ask for ID
but I do look honest, lol

RocksInMyHead said:

Your social security card is not a valid voter ID in many states that require one. Around half of voter ID laws require a photo ID.

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Was not the point; it was about obtaining credit cards, which the major credit reporting agencies track by SSN. But thanks for pointing that out. In order to obtain said photo ID, which in many states can be a state DL or ID, or a passport, what is THAT requirement? In my state, proof of identity and either a SSN or proof of residency in the state are required.

So again, what is the difference between the requirements for obtaining a credit/debit card or other payment option to pay for groceries and obtaining a voter ID card?

whatbogsends said:

I probably provided my SSN (my card is over 20 years old, I know I got it by mail). I didn't provide picture ID to get my card.

Moreover, claiming that you have indirectly previously used ID to get the credit card to purchase cereal is not the same thing as claiming "you need ID" to purchase cereal. Form of payment is entirely optional, and one can purchase cereal with cash. It's a bogus claim, and you're jumping through hoops to try to make it somewhat truish in a roundabout fashion.

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And people like you want to make mountains out of molehills from some comment Trump made about cereal and take it literally. There are no hoops to jump through, just a following of basic facts and logic. Whatever method of payment for groceries one chooses, the requirements to obtain said payment method are just as similar and easy to apply to obtaining a voter ID card.

BigDaddy4 said:

Was not the point; it was about obtaining credit cards, which the major credit reporting agencies track by SSN. But thanks for pointing that out. In order to obtain said photo ID, which in many states can be a state DL or ID, or a passport, what is THAT requirement? In my state, proof of identity and either a SSN or proof of residency in the state are required.

So again, what is the difference between the requirements for obtaining a credit/debit card or other payment option to pay for groceries and obtaining a voter ID card?

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Those goal posts look really heavy. You sure you don't need a hand?

Obtaining a credit card does not require a photo ID. It may require some of the same things that are required to get a photo ID, but having a credit card does not automatically mean that you have a photo ID. And all of that is irrelevant because you can STILL purchase cereal without a credit card.

Edit: for the record, my photo ID required two forms of identification. So I could not have gotten it with the same info I needed for my credit card. Also, I can apply for a credit card without my physical Social Security card - I have the number memorized.

RocksInMyHead said:

Those goal posts look really heavy. You sure you don't need a hand?

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No, you're doing quite fine on your own.

RocksInMyHead said:

Obtaining a credit card does not require a photo ID. It may require some of the same things that are required to get a photo ID, but having a credit card does not automatically mean that you have a photo ID. And all of that is irrelevant because you can STILL purchase cereal without a credit card.

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Never said you need a photo ID to obtain a credit card. Please pay attention to what I actually said.

BigDaddy4 said:

Never said you need a photo ID to obtain a credit card. Please pay attention to what I actually said.

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Oh, I am. So far you've claimed that:
1. ID is required for a credit card. Therefore, if you have a credit card you must have ID (post #132)
2. By ID, you meant SSN and address (post #189)
3. You actually didn't mean ID, just the means by which to obtain one (post #195)

The trouble is that SSN and address are not valid voter ID in all cases, so having them does not mean that you have voter ID. And while they are part of what's required in order to obtain a photo ID (what's required to vote in places that don't accept your social security card as voter ID), they are not all of what you need, so you can't claim that someone with a credit card even has all of the means to obtain one - disregarding entirely the financial, time, and travel aspects that are involved as well.

Let me give you a real world example of someone who is having issues getting ID. This person is a veteran currently residing in Texas. Before living in Texas, he lived in Arizona. At the moment, he still has an Arizona ID from about 20 years ago -- prior to the REAL ID standards. Because of PTSD, he did not have a driver's license because he would "black out" while driving. He is also disabled.

Because he's moved around, he has lost or misplaced some of his documents, and it an issue getting some of them replaced. So, to get a new ID card, or driver's license, he now needs "proof of citizenship." Now, he could likely get an ID if he could find (or get replaced) his birth certificate and Social Security card; but he can't find either. Oddly, to get his birth certificate, he basically needs much of the same "proof" as he would need to get an ID card -- he was not born in Texas so has to be handled by mail (to send copies of documents); so it is currently impossible to get his birth certificate replaced.

The card he could get, and which should be enough to get him a birth certificate, is a Social Security card. The issue is, to get a Social Security card he has to go in to the local office and apply in person with proof of who he is -- which he seems to have. His issue, being disabled it is tough enough just to get there; though that likely wouldn't be an overwhelming issue (as I would take him). His biggest issue is the stress of going, sitting around and waiting in a public place. Waiting in public is extremely stressful on him (because of the PTSD), and he can't wait for more than 30-60 minutes before he would absolutely have to leave -- and it may be even less with the large number of people waiting, and how crowded that office can be.

He has no issues with ID in everyday life. He has a bank account that he's had for 30 years; I suppose he might have issues if he wanted to open an account at a new bank (though I think his AZ ID may still be good enough for opening an account). He'd have no issues getting a credit card, since you don't actually need a physical ID in most cases (so long as your credit report checks out); at worst they'd likely ask questions about where he has lived previously and similar questions where the answer is on his credit report). He also, because of his age, would have no issue buying alcohol or cigarettes almost anywhere.

Now this is just one example and I'm guessing you think this is an extreme case -- then again, in a country of 325 million, just 1% of "extreme cases" still is 32 million. There are plenty of other different examples, such as the person working 2 jobs who can't afford the time off, much less has transportation issues, to go to a government office to get the documents they need for an ID card, not to mention then having to go to another office to get the ID card they need. Just because it is easy for you, doesn't mean it isn't a tough process for others -- and that is not even mentioning any money they need to pay for the IDs.