Danthemailman

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Belief Is an action
Just as faith is.
It sounds like you are confusing belief/faith with works. We are saved the moment that we place our faith (belief, trust, reliance) in Jesus Christ alone for salvation. Actions which "follow" are works.

The Gospel message has clear direct instructions
The apostles preached them and never ceased doing so.
So must we if we seek to be faithful with this everlasting Gosple of JESUS.
The gospel is a message of grace to be received through faith. The gospel is not a set of rituals to perform, a code of laws to be obeyed or a check list of good works to accomplish as a prerequisite for salvation. Works salvation is a "different" gospel.

If you stand on a road and a bus is coming.
And your told hey a bus is coming get off the road..
If you ONLY say thank you yes i believe you.
You won't be saved from that bus hitting you.
If you come to understand that you are a sinner in need of a Savior (Romans 3:23; 6:23) yet instead of placing your faith (belief, trust, reliance) in the Savior as the ALL-sufficient means of your salvation (Acts 10:43; 16:31; Romans 1:16) you turn to works for salvation, you will not be saved from your sins. (Romans 3:24-28)

To be saved you must act on the warnings instructions...of "Get off the road" ..
When we believe the gospel and receive the gift of the Holy Spirit and become saved, we get off the broad way that leads to destruction and get on the narrow road that leads to life.

You must take obedient action.
So how much obedient action does it take? How much obedient action must you accomplish and "add" as a supplement to Christ's finished work of redemption in order to help Him save you?
 
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redleghunter

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In Acts 2:38, "for the remission of sins" does not refer back to both clauses, "you all repent" and "each one of you be baptized," but refers only to the first. Peter is saying "repent unto the remission of your sins," the same as in Acts 3:19. The clause "each one of you be baptized" is parenthetical. This is exactly what Acts 3:19 teaches except that Peter omits the parenthesis.

Also compare the fact that these Gentiles in Acts 10:45 received the gift of the Holy Spirit (compare with Acts 2:38 - the gift of the Holy Spirit) and this was BEFORE water baptism (Acts 10:47).

In Acts 10:43 we read ..whoever believes in Him receives remission of sins. Again, these Gentiles received the gift of the Holy Spirit - Acts 10:45 - when they believed on the Lord Jesus Christ - Acts 11:17 - (compare with Acts 16:31 - Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and you will be saved) BEFORE water baptism - Acts 10:47. This is referred to as repentance unto life - Acts 11:18.

*So the only logical conclusion when properly harmonizing Scripture with Scripture is that faith in Jesus Christ "implied in genuine repentance" (rather than water baptism) brings the remission of sins and the gift of the Holy Spirit (Luke 24:47; Acts 2:38; 3:19; 5:31; 10:43-47; 11:17,18; 15:8,9; 16:31; 26:18). *Perfect Harmony* :oldthumbsup:
Indeed. Acts 3:19 clarifies what saves.

Peter makes it crystal clear at the council of Jerusalem in Acts 15 where he declares God cleanses our hearts by faith and we are saved through Christ by Grace.


Acts 15:
7After much discussion, Peter got up and said to them, “Brothers, you know that in the early days, God made a choice among you that the Gentiles would hear from my lips the message of the gospel and believe. 8And God, who knows the heart, showed His approval by giving the Holy Spirit to them, just as He did to us.9He made no distinction between us and them, for He cleansed their hearts by faith.

10Now then, why do you test God by placing on the necks of the disciples a yoke that neither we nor our fathers have been able to bear? 11On the contrary, we believe it is through the grace of the Lord Jesus that we are saved, just as they are.”
 
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SavedByGrace3

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So I guess this is the test...
If you were on a desert island and a Bible page washed up on the shore, and all you could read was this. You believe it. Would you be saved as it says?

1 Corin 15:
1 Moreover, brethren, I declare to you the gospel which I preached to you, which also ye have received, and in which ye stand;
2 By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached to you, unless ye have believed in vain.
3 For I delivered to you first of all, that which I also received, that Christ died for our sins, according to the scriptures;
4 And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures
 
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redleghunter

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So I guess this is the test...
If you were on a desert island and a Bible page washed up on the shore, and all you could read was this. You believe it. Would you be saved as it says?

1 Corin 15:
1 Moreover, brethren, I declare to you the gospel which I preached to you, which also ye have received, and in which ye stand;
2 By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached to you, unless ye have believed in vain.
3 For I delivered to you first of all, that which I also received, that Christ died for our sins, according to the scriptures;
4 And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures
I believe that was enough for Peter to answer the question of "Who do you say that I am?"

Not to mention most souls in the book of Acts.
 
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Alithis

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So I guess this is the test...
If you were on a desert island and a Bible page washed up on the shore, and all you could read was this. You believe it. Would you be saved as it says?

1 Corin 15:
1 Moreover, brethren, I declare to you the gospel which I preached to you, which also ye have received, and in which ye stand;
2 By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached to you, unless ye have believed in vain.
3 For I delivered to you first of all, that which I also received, that Christ died for our sins, according to the scriptures;
4 And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures
you would receive the holy Spirit (as has happened to many who have never even seen a bible ) and be lead into all truth by the Holy Spirit.
but that does not excuse us who DO know from preaching the WHOLE message.
Never build theology on the exception .
 
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Alithis

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I believe that was enough for Peter to answer the question of "Who do you say that I am?"

Not to mention most souls in the book of Acts.
Have you read the book of acts and taken note of what the message is they preached ...
 
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Alithis

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iv heard recently an argument that said that repentance was only preached in that manner to the jews ...
however this would by implication ,yet again be traditions making the word of God of no effect . which is sin to do .
for JESUS said -" in His name repentance and forgiveness of sins will be proclaimed to all nations, beginning in Jerusalem."..so it is certainly NOT to the jews only .

in acts 2 we see peter preach exactly that ..that they are to repent -
and they simply do not stop preaching repentance as an integral part of the gospel message (along with baptism and receiving the holy Spirit )
 
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Alithis

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1 Corin 15:
Moreover, brethren, I declare to you the gospel which I preached to you, which also ye have received, and in which ye stand;
By which also ye are being saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached to you, unless ye have believed in vain.
For I delivered to you first of all, that which I also received, that Christ died for our sins, according to the scriptures;
And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures

What is of interest is .. he is not teaching about the whole gospel ..he is speaking about the "Resurrection" and that is his preface to doing so .. read the text ....not the extracted paragraph. In fact he is addressing the fact that he heard some of them were saying there is no Resurrection... (context is important ,you cant pluck out a few verses and say that's this when hes not even talking about that at all- you cant say look here is the full gospel when our validating that from sentences plucked out of a page where he is not explaining what the whole gospel is - )

i have HIGHLIGHTED in bold the word so you can see having not read the text beyond your preselected verse that his topic is fully addressing those who had been saying there is no resurrection. the entire text is addressing THIS Resurrection topic NOT the gospel .- also noting he tells them to keep in mind what he had "preached " (past tense ) which is MORE then he is saying here .and here he is reiterating only the FIRST thing he preached( NOT all he preached to them of the gospel)

...
so now observe the text

"...Now I would remind you, brothers, of the gospel I preached to you, which you received, in which you stand, and by which you are being saved, if you hold fast to the word I preached(past tense) to you—unless you believed in vain.
For I delivered to you as of first importance what I also received: that Christ died for our sins in accordance with the Scriptures, that he was buried, that he was raised on the third day in accordance with the Scriptures, and that he appeared to Cephas, then to the twelve. Then he appeared to more than five hundred brothers at one time, most of whom are still alive, though some have fallen asleep. Then he appeared to James, then to all the apostles. Last of all, as to one untimely born, he appeared also to me. For I am the least of the apostles, unworthy to be called an apostle, because I persecuted the church of God. But by the grace of God I am what I am, and his grace toward me was not in vain. On the contrary, I worked harder than any of them, though it was not I, but the grace of God that is with me. Whether then it was I or they, so we preach and so you believed.
Now if Christ is proclaimed as raised from the dead, how can some of you say that there is no resurrection of the dead? But if there is no resurrection of the dead, then not even Christ has been raised. And if Christ has not been raised, then our preaching is in vain and your faith is in vain. We are even found to be misrepresenting God, because we testified about God that he raised Christ, whom he did not raise if it is true that the dead are not raised. 16 For if the dead are not raised, not even Christ has been raised. 17 And if Christ has not been raised, your faith is futile and you are still in your sins. 18 Then those also who have fallen asleep in Christ have perished. 19 If in Christ we have hope in this life only, we are of all people most to be pitied.

But in fact Christ has been raised from the dead, the firstfruits of those who have fallen asleep. 21 For as by a man came death, by a man has come also the resurrection of the dead. 22 For as in Adam all die, so also in Christ shall all be made alive. 23 But each in his own order: Christ the firstfruits, then at his coming those who belong to Christ. 24 Then comes the end, when he delivers the kingdom to God the Father after destroying every rule and every authority and power. 25 For he must reign until he has put all his enemies under his feet. 26 The last enemy to be destroyed is death. 27 For “God[c] has put all things in subjection under his feet.” But when it says, “all things are put in subjection,” it is plain that he is excepted who put all things in subjection under him. 28 When all things are subjected to him, then the Son himself will also be subjected to him who put all things in subjection under him, that God may be all in all.

Otherwise, what do people mean by being baptized on behalf of the dead? If the dead are not raised at all, why are people baptized on their behalf? 30 Why are we in danger every hour? 31 I protest, brothers, by my pride in you, which I have in Christ Jesus our Lord, I die every day! 32 What do I gain if, humanly speaking, I fought with beasts at Ephesus? If the dead are not raised, “Let us eat and drink, for tomorrow we die.” 33 Do not be deceived: “Bad company ruins good morals.”[d] 34 Wake up from your drunken stupor, as is right, and do not go on sinning. For some have no knowledge of God. I say this to your shame.


But someone will ask, “How are the dead raised? With what kind of body do they come?” 36 You foolish person! What you sow does not come to life unless it dies. 37 And what you sow is not the body that is to be, but a bare kernel, perhaps of wheat or of some other grain. 38 But God gives it a body as he has chosen, and to each kind of seed its own body. 39 For not all flesh is the same, but there is one kind for humans, another for animals, another for birds, and another for fish. 40 There are heavenly bodies and earthly bodies, but the glory of the heavenly is of one kind, and the glory of the earthly is of another. 41 There is one glory of the sun, and another glory of the moon, and another glory of the stars; for star differs from star in glory.

So is it with the resurrection of the dead. What is sown is perishable; what is raised is imperishable. 43 It is sown in dishonor; it is raised in glory. It is sown in weakness; it is raised in power. 44 It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. If there is a natural body, there is also a spiritual body. Thus it is written, “The first man Adam became a living being”; the last Adam became a life-giving spirit. But it is not the spiritual that is first but the natural, and then the spiritual. 47 The first man was from the earth, a man of dust; the second man is from heaven. 48 As was the man of dust, so also are those who are of the dust, and as is the man of heaven, so also are those who are of heaven. 49 Just as we have borne the image of the man of dust, we shall also bear the image of the man of heaven.
I tell you this, brothers: flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God, nor does the perishable inherit the imperishable. Behold! I tell you a mystery. We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised imperishable, and we shall be changed. For this perishable body must put on the imperishable, and this mortal body must put on immortality. When the perishable puts on the imperishable, and the mortal puts on immortality, then shall come to pass the saying that is written:
“Death is swallowed up in victory.”
“O death, where is your victory?
O death, where is your sting?”
The sting of death is sin, and the power of sin is the law. But thanks be to God, who gives us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ.
Therefore, my beloved brothers, be steadfast, immovable, always abounding in the work of the Lord, knowing that in the Lord your labor is not in vain.

----hope you counted the word raised and Resurrection- because thats his topic -
 
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SavedByGrace3

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We could site virtually the entire book of Galatians and huge chunks of the Book of Hebrews... but I think this makes the point.
Re-read 1 Corin 15:1-3 to establish the Gospel that Paul preached, that saved those who heard it.
This is what Paul has to say tho those who pervert that simple and straightforward Gospel:

Galatians 1:
6 I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ, to another gospel:
7 Which is not another; but there are some that trouble you, and would pervert the gospel of Christ.
8 But though we, or an angel from heaven, should preach any other gospel to you than that which we have preached to you, let him be accursed.
9 As we said before, so I say now again, If any [man] preacheth any other gospel to you than that ye have received, let him be accursed.
10 For do I now persuade men, or God? or do I seek to please men? for if I yet pleased men, I should not be the servant of Christ.
11 But I certify you, brethren, that the gospel which was preached by me is not according to man.
12 For I neither received it from man, neither was I taught [it], but by the revelation of Jesus Christ.

Let's restate that Gospel that Paul preached. The gospel they received. In black and white. Word for Word, The gospel which was delivered to Paul directly from Jesus Christ:

1 Corin 15:
1 Moreover, brethren, I declare to you the gospel which I preached to you, which also ye have received, and in which ye stand;
2 By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached to you, unless ye have believed in vain.
3 For I delivered to you first of all, that which I also received, that Christ died for our sins, according to the scriptures;
4 And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures.

That is it. I am not sure any amount of logic, argument, or reason can be made against this. It says what it says. This is the gospel that Paul preached. This is the gospel they received. The gospel that he received by revelation directly from Jesus Christ. Any addition or subtraction is called a perversion. Terrible that it says anyone who preaches another gospel would be accursed.

The practical point is this. Unregenerate people who try to repent before they are saved will fail. Simply because an unregenerate person cannot repent and do good. And in failing they may give up thinking God has rejected them or that the gospel is not true.

Let me reiterate... once a person is born again by simple faith in the death (for our sins), burial, and resurrection of Jesus, then the Holy Spirit will begin to work on their manner of life. The Lord will sanctify them and clean up their life. But only after they have thrown themselves hopeless at the foot of the cross... adding nothing. No works, no self righteousness. Just faith in Him.
 
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Alithis

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We could site virtually the entire book of Galatians and huge chunks of the Book of Hebrews... but I think this makes the point.
Re-read 1 Corin 15:1-3 to establish the Gospel that Paul preached, that saved those who heard it.
This is what Paul has to say tho those who pervert that simple and straightforward Gospel:

Galatians 1:
6 I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ, to another gospel:
7 Which is not another; but there are some that trouble you, and would pervert the gospel of Christ.
8 But though we, or an angel from heaven, should preach any other gospel to you than that which we have preached to you, let him be accursed.
9 As we said before, so I say now again, If any [man] preacheth any other gospel to you than that ye have received, let him be accursed.
10 For do I now persuade men, or God? or do I seek to please men? for if I yet pleased men, I should not be the servant of Christ.
11 But I certify you, brethren, that the gospel which was preached by me is not according to man.
12 For I neither received it from man, neither was I taught [it], but by the revelation of Jesus Christ.

Let's restate that Gospel that Paul preached. The gospel they received. In black and white. Word for Word, The gospel which was delivered to Paul directly from Jesus Christ:

1 Corin 15:
1 Moreover, brethren, I declare to you the gospel which I preached to you, which also ye have received, and in which ye stand;
2 By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached to you, unless ye have believed in vain.
3 For I delivered to you first of all, that which I also received, that Christ died for our sins, according to the scriptures;
4 And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures.

That is it. I am not sure any amount of logic, argument, or reason can be made against this. It says what it says. This is the gospel that Paul preached. This is the gospel they received. The gospel that he received by revelation directly from Jesus Christ. Any addition or subtraction is called a perversion. Terrible that it says anyone who preaches another gospel would be accursed.

The practical point is this. Unregenerate people who try to repent before they are saved will fail. Simply because an unregenerate person cannot repent and do good. And in failing they may give up thinking God has rejected them or that the gospel is not true.

Let me reiterate... once a person is born again by simple faith in the death (for our sins), burial, and resurrection of Jesus, then the Holy Spirit will begin to work on their manner of life. The Lord will sanctify them and clean up their life. But only after they have thrown themselves hopeless at the foot of the cross... adding nothing. No works, no self righteousness. Just faith in Him.
yet you still left out the rest of the chapter and that he is not listing ALL the gospel he preached to them. because he preached repentance always and you know it .. why dont you quote the rest of the chapter in context ? because as pointed out it shows he is only making introduction to deal with the topic of Resurrection in that extracted text your using .- that is not honest to misrepresent the scripture that way.
every where else he preached & repentance baptism for we all know that belief is not belief until it is acted upon .so yes .. it is to preach another Gospel to leave out any part of it .
 
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Alithis

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It’s the Gospel which opens the heart and mind by God’s Grace effecting confession and repentance.
certainly the first part of the gospel message opens hearts i see it all the time out there preaching at . and more so after the person has experienced healing . and then we must be faithful to preach the whole gospel message
the first part being what God has done for us
the 2nd part being what we must do in response
the apostle did so and never ceased to do so -nor should we
 
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SavedByGrace3

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yet you still left out the rest of the chapter and that he is not listing ALL the gospel he preached to them. because he preached repentance always and you know it .. why dont you quote the rest of the chapter in context ? because as pointed out it shows he is only making introduction to deal with the topic of Resurrection in that extracted text your using .- that is not honest to misrepresent the scripture that way.
every where else he preached & repentance baptism for we all know that belief is not belief until it is acted upon .so yes .. it is to preach another Gospel to leave out any part of it .
The rest of the chapter speaks to his apostleship and the resurrection of Jesus and the resurrection of believers from the dead. Nothing is said about repentance.
Made my point. No need to continue. Let everyone who is following the passage know that the Gospel is faith in the death of Jesus for our sins, and the burial and resurrection. That is it. After one is born again then the Lord and the Holy Spirit brings one to maturity and sanctification.... Praise His Name!
Really nothing more to be said.
:amen::clap::wave:
 
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Alithis

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The rest of the chapter speaks to his apostleship and the resurrection of Jesus and the resurrection of believers from the dead. Nothing is said about repentance.
Made my point. No need to continue. Let everyone who is following the passage know that the Gospel is faith in the death of Jesus for our sins, and the burial and resurrection. That is it. After one is born again then the Lord and the Holy Spirit brings one to maturity and sanctification.... Praise His Name!
Really nothing more to be said.
:amen::clap::wave:
the start of the chapter is reminding them that he told them Christ died rose and rose again .
any reader can see this as posted above in full (not only the verses you are extracting and using out of context ).then he goes on to address those among the Corinthians who were saying there is no Resurrection
and your reference to Galatians does not list the entire Gospel message . all the apostle preached what Christ has done AND that all men every where must repent . for knowing the good news of what Christ has done does not save a person .. only obeying the gospel does and thats an action of faith one takes which proves they actually believe - the apostles NEVER neglected to preach repentance and baptism in both water and the holy Spirit . they did it unto their death never DEVIATING from the message delivered them
 
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Alithis

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why do people Forget that paul is not laying out ALL the gospel in the text ... he is writing a letter to them and answering maters they ASKED him about in a letter they sent to him . [a letter we do not have and records show in 1 Corinthians he is writing a second letter and 2nd corinth is in fact the third letter ( we do not have the first one )]
one of the questions they had raised in their letter was in regard to Resurrection because SOME in their company were saying there is no Resurrection from the dead and in ch 15 Paul is pointing out that he preached to them that Christ rose from the dead -so how can there be no Resurrection from the dead ..it is the point he is making throughout the entire section of text in his letter .

you cant take a few sentences out and apply it to a totally different topic to suit your religious preference - it is dishonest .
 
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SavedByGrace3

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the start of the chapter is reminding them that he told them Christ died rose and rose again .
any reader can see this as posted above in full (not only the verses you are extracting and using out of context ).then he goes on to address those among the Corinthians who were saying there is no Resurrection
and your reference to Galatians does not list the entire Gospel message . all the apostle preached what Christ has done AND that all men every where must repent . for knowing the good news of what Christ has done does not save a person .. only obeying the gospel does and thats an action of faith one takes which proves they actually believe - the apostles NEVER neglected to preach repentance and baptism in both water and the holy Spirit . they did it unto their death never DEVIATING from the message delivered them
By your testimony you are implying that you repented of all sin before you were saved? Is that correct? The day you heard the gospel you ceased from all sin? You walked into a church from out of the blue, heard the gospel and did exactly what Jesus said:

Matt 5
48 Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father who is in heaven is perfect.

Because that is what it would take.
Did you accomplish this? You immediately became perfect in your walk as God - along with believing? Has anyone?
Excuse me if I doubt it.
Kind of a useless conversation.
Let's just drop it. Maybe for another day.
 
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Alithis

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By your testimony you are implying that you repented of all sin before you were saved? Is that correct? The day you heard the gospel you ceased from all sin? You walked into a church from out of the blue, heard the gospel and did exactly what Jesus said:

Matt 5
48 Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father who is in heaven is perfect.

Because that is what it would take.
Did you accomplish this? You immediately became perfect in your walk as God - along with believing? Has anyone?
Excuse me if I doubt it.
Kind of a useless conversation.
Let's just drop it. Maybe for another day.

talk about the obvious straw man argument and misdirection -

what i pointed out is ..
the apostles NEVER omitted repentance from the Gospel message (nor should we it would be unfaithful to the message of the good news to do so)
and in 1 Corinthians 15 paul is not laying out the whole Gospel he is reminding them that he preached that Christ died and rose again.. and he is doing so in reply to their letter which asked him about Resurrection because SOME were saying there was no Resurrection .. he actually says so in the text simply and clearly .
then he continues to fully address the topic of Resurrection reinforcing that Christ rose from the dead .

he is Not laying out the full gospel message to them he is not even on that topic and he is writing to people who already converted wanting them to MOVE forward from the foundations of repentance and baptism .

and you come back with arguments about my testimony and sinlessness ? do try to address the actual topic , changing the topic wont change that facts
 
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Jesus is Lord of ALL! (Not asking permission)
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talk about the obvious straw man argument and misdirection -

what i pointed out is ..
the apostles NEVER omitted repentance from the Gospel message (nor should we it would be unfaithful to the message of the good news to do so)
and in 1 Corinthians 15 paul is not laying out the whole Gospel he is reminding them that he preached that Christ died and rose again.. and he is doing so in reply to their letter which asked him about Resurrection because SOME were saying there was no Resurrection .. he actually says so in the text simply and clearly .
then he continues to fully address the topic of Resurrection reinforcing that Christ rose from the dead .

he is Not laying out the full gospel message to them he is not even on that topic and he is writing to people who already converted wanting them to MOVE forward from the foundations of repentance and baptism .

and you come back with arguments about my testimony and sinlessness ? do try to address the actual topic , changing the topic wont change that facts
 
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