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Anto9us

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The people who thought the disciples were drunk were the locals who didn't understood the languages spoken. We know this because Peter addresses them first in his sermon:

Acts 2:14 “Men of Judea and all you who live in Jerusalem, let this be known to you and give heed to my words. For these men are not drunk, as you suppose, "
In the Temple Courts the only language that was expected to be heard was the language of the Temple (Hebrew)

And Peter probably preached his sermon in Hebrew.

But the Bible does not say that it was just the LOCALS who thought the disciples were drunk -- locals as well as visitors from at least fifteen areas were there.


Act 2:6
Now when this was noised abroad, the multitude came together, and were confounded, because that every man heard them speak in his own language.

Act 2:7
And they were all amazed and marvelled, saying one to another, Behold, are not all these which speak Galilaeans?

How did people know that the disciples were Galileans?
The maid by the fire accused Peter of being a disciple because his "speech gives him away", so it might be because of an accent, I don't know.

Peter preaches his sermon, obviously the sermon is in ONE LANGUAGE, maybe its Hebrew, I don't know. When he concludes his sermon:

Act 2:37
Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do?

Obviously the audience UNDERSTOOD Peter's sermon -- so either the "miracle of understand in your own language another language that is spoken" could still be in play here.

One other possibility to keep in mind here is that EVERYONE THERE --
Act 2:5
And there were dwelling at Jerusalem Jews, devout men, out of every nation under heaven.
EVERYONE THERE might have been able to speak Hebrew !! They responded to Peter's sermon, right?

It could be that "hearing what was said in their own language" was for a sign to them, they might have been able to understand it if it was preached in Hebrew, but WHAT MORE IMPACT than for the guy from Crete to hear it in the language of Crete!

We DON'T KNOW the purposes of God behind the miraculous 'hearing in their own language' both the praises of God when they thought they were all drunk and the sermon by Peter, which may have been in Hebrew and they knew that as well.

What we know is -- the locals and visitors both heard
(1) the praises of God
AND
(2) the sermon by Peter and UNDERSTOOD WHAT WAS SPOKEN,
(1) they heard DEFINITELY IN THEIR OWN LANGUAGE; whether they also knew Hebrew or not

If I was from Crete and I was there that day, let's say I am a devout Jew and know Hebrew, what a greater impression on me to hear a Galilean speakin a Cretan language than simply to hear everything in Hebrew. Maybe this whole thing of "hearing in their own language" was a device to show God's POWER; not simply a device by which Parthians and Egyptians could have their attention captivated and subsequently understand Peter's sermon that followed.

And Acts chapter Two is not the only kind of Tongues in the New Testament, as much as Cessationists want to convince people that it is.
 
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swordsman1

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But the Bible does not say that it was just the LOCALS who thought the disciples were drunk -- locals as well as visitors from at least fifteen areas were there.

Who was Peter addressing when he defended the charge of drunkenness?

Men of Judea and all you who live in Jerusalem, let this be known to you and give heed to my words. For these men are not drunk, as you suppose, for it is only the third hour of the day;


Obviously the audience UNDERSTOOD Peter's sermon -- so either the "miracle of understand in your own language another language that is spoken" could still be in play here.

Huh? Peter would have spoken his sermon in Hebrew. And being Jewish the foreigners would understand Hebrew.

And Acts chapter Two is not the only kind of Tongues in the New Testament, as much as Cessationists want to convince people that it is.

Where does it describe a different kind?
 
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AbbaLove

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"Apostleship" was not listed in the gifts which were subject to failing, ceasing, or passing away.

The only three gifts subject to that are tongues, prophecy and Word of Knowledge.
What Bible teacher(s) have persuaded you to believe that "tongues, prophecy and Word of Knowledge" have ceased or passed away??? There isn't any scripture that supports your belief that three supernatural Gifts have passed away; while the other six Gifts (1 Corinthians 12:8-11) are still resident in faithful Believers (Continualists).

11 But one and the same Spirit works all these things, distributing to each one individually just as He wills. (not as a cessationist wills, but as the Spirit wills)​

For example "Words of Knowledge" is a prevalent supernatural Gifting [at least] since the 70s (e.g. Full Gospel) often used to build one's faith for a supernatural healing. The result being about the only thing the doctor can say in so many words is, "It's a miracle!"
"The Full Gospel Baptist Church Fellowship International is a Charismatic Baptist fellowship. It advocates the operation of spiritual gifts in church, in reaction to the teachings of many Baptist bodies." ... www.fullgospelbaptist.org/
 
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swordsman1

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Act 2:5
And there were dwelling at Jerusalem Jews, devout men, out of every nation under heaven.

These were addressed about the apparant drunkeness.

The visiting foreigners didn't live in Jerusalem.

Men of Judea and all you who live in Jerusalem, let this be known to you and give heed to my words. For these men are not drunk, as you suppose, for it is only the third hour of the day;
 
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W2L

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Question, what does paul put away here?

1 Co 13:'8 Love never fails; but if there are gifts of [c]prophecy, they will be done away; if there are tongues, they will cease; if there is knowledge, it will be done away. 9 For we know in part and we prophesy in part; 10 but when the perfect comes, the partial will be done away. 11 When I was a child, I used to speak like a child, think like a child, reason like a child; when I [d]became a man, I did away with childish things.
 
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Anto9us

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1Co 12:28
And God hath set some in the church, first apostles, secondarily prophets, thirdly teachers, after that miracles, then gifts of healings, helps, governments, diversities of tongues.

1Co 14:2
For he that speaketh in an unknown tongue speaketh not unto men, but unto God: for no man understandeth him; howbeit in the spirit he speaketh mysteries.


1 Cor 14:2
describes something wholly different than Acts 2, where the tongue-speakers were definitely seaking TO MEN.

 
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swordsman1

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1Co 12:28
And God hath set some in the church, first apostles, secondarily prophets, thirdly teachers, after that miracles, then gifts of healings, helps, governments, diversities of tongues.

There were those could miraculously speak the Persian tongue, those could speak the Carpathian tongue, those could speak the Latin tongue.


1Co 14:2
For he that speaketh in an unknown tongue speaketh not unto men, but unto God: for no man understandeth him; howbeit in the spirit he speaketh mysteries.

That verse doesn't say tongues was a non-human language.
 
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Anto9us

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One of the 'time indicators' for when this PERFECT came and ceased three gifts -- besides the completion of NT Canon -- is death of the last apostle.

But things indeed were NOT Perfect after Peter Paul and John died, they warned of wolves coming in after their deaths...
 
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Anto9us

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The Greek word for DWELL in Acts 2:5


kä-toi-ke'-ō

Genesis 1:1 (KJV)

to dwell, settle

metaph. divine powers, influences, etc., are said to dwell in his soul, to pervade, prompt, govern it

to dwell in, inhabit

God is said to dwell in the temple, i.e. to be always present for worshippers

The KJV translates Strong's G2730 in the following manner: dwell (42x), dweller (2x), inhabitor (2x), inhabitant (1x).
 
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W2L

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But things indeed were NOT Perfect after Peter Paul and John died, they warned of wolves coming in after their deaths...
paul said when I was a child, (past tense) I used to speak like a child, (past tense) think like a child, reason like a child; when I became a man, I did away with childish things. (all past tense)
 
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Anto9us

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Paul uses the metaphor of childhood vs. adulthood to illustrate the condition of things as they were at the time he was writing to a later condition subsequent to that. When the condition that was described by the word TELEIOS (complete, mature, perfect) comes about in time; the three designated gifts he mentioned would fail, cease and vanish away. Just as childish things vanish away in adulthood.

Cessationists put forth the proposition that the CONDITION that Paul represented by TELEIOS has already come about; that it happened either when the last writing of the New Testament was written, or the last apostle died, or some other 'indicator' -- but those two are the most prevalent reasons/occurences on which the Cessationists base the CEASING of the three gifts mentioned.

Continuationists put forth the proposition that the CONDITION that Paul represented by TELEIOS has not occurred yet, some of us saying it will be the state of things after Christ returns, or the transformation of our bodies into glorified bodies, whatever -- but that the TELEIOS condition is yet future.
 
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W2L

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Paul uses the metaphor of childhood vs. adulthood to illustrate the condition of things as they were at the time he was writing to a later condition subsequent to that. When the condition that was described by the word TELEIOS (complete, mature, perfect) comes about in time; the three designated gifts he mentioned would fail, cease and vanish away. Just as childish things vanish away in adulthood.

Cessationists put forth the proposition that the CONDITION that Paul represented by TELEIOS has already come about; that it happened either when the last writing of the New Testament was written, or the last apostle died, or some other 'indicator' -- but those two are the most prevalent reasons/occurences on which the Cessationists base the CEASING of the three gifts mentioned.

Continuationists put forth the proposition that the CONDITION that Paul represented by TELEIOS has not occurred yet, some of us saying it will be the state of things after Christ returns, or the transformation of our bodies into glorified bodies, whatever -- but that the TELEIOS condition is yet future.
Paul also calls the Corinthians infants. Only a child needs a teacher, so thats one gift that ceases when people "grow up".

...when I became a man, I did away with childish things.
 
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AbbaLove

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AbbaLove, I hope you did not take it to mean that
I think the three gifts have passed away already, they have not-- that which is perfect has not yet come.
"Apostleship" was not listed in the gifts which were subject to failing, ceasing, or passing away.

The only three gifts subject to that are tongues, prophecy and Word of Knowledge.
So is it your opinion that Cessationists believe those three Gifts of "tongues, prophecy and Word of Knowledge" have passed away; while they believe the other six are still active in faithful Believers (1 Corinthians 12:8-11) ???
To me, a Cessationist is one who claims that the CONDITION which Paul referred to as teleios, the perfect, complete, mature HAS ALREADY OCCURRED.

A Continuationist says No, it is still to come.
Wrong! By their very name a Continuationist says they already exist (operational) in faithful Believers. If they actually believed they are still to come they wouldn't be referred to as a "Continuationist", but rather something like an "Impendingist" or "STCist" ;)
 
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