'Devil's Advocate' for Amillenialism

LastSeven

Amil
Site Supporter
Sep 2, 2010
5,205
1,046
Edmonton, Alberta
✟154,576.00
Country
Canada
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Neither say at the same time and you are ignoring "the dead in Christ rise first". Not to mention the two groups of dead that Rev 20 speaks of not happening at the same time.
Both examples say that there is one resurrection for both groups. It's really quite clear. Why do you refuse to accept it? Do you want there to be two separate physical resurrections?
 
Upvote 0

DavidPT

Well-Known Member
Sep 26, 2016
8,602
2,107
Texas
✟196,523.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
It doesn't actually say that, does it?

It doesn't say that evil slayed them. It says "They were beheaded". And it doesn't say that they were killed because they refused the mark. It says "They had not received the mark".

You should be more careful with how you're reading this stuff. Don't make assumptions, and don't read into it things that it does not say. Only read what it actually says.


In order to read what it actually says though, sometimes that requires reading other Scriptures connected with the subject in question. As in Scripture interpreting Scripture.

Revelation 13:11 And I beheld another beast coming up out of the earth; and he had two horns like a lamb, and he spake as a dragon.
12 And he exerciseth all the power of the first beast before him, and causeth the earth and them which dwell therein to worship the first beast, whose deadly wound was healed.
13 And he doeth great wonders, so that he maketh fire come down from heaven on the earth in the sight of men,
14 And deceiveth them that dwell on the earth by the means of those miracles which he had power to do in the sight of the beast; saying to them that dwell on the earth, that they should make an image to the beast, which had the wound by a sword, and did live.
15 And he had power to give life unto the image of the beast, that the image of the beast should both speak, and cause that as many as would not worship the image of the beast should be killed.


I don't see any reason to not take verse 15 in the literal sense, in regards to---and cause that as many as would not worship the image of the beast should be killed.

I also see no reason to not conclude---and cause that as many as would not worship the image of the beast should be killed---equals---and I saw the souls of them---which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands

Christians are literally beheaded for their faith in Christ, even in this present day and time we live in. You seem to make light of that fact, since you indicated earlier that being beheaded is to be understood symbolically in Revelation 20:4 and not literally instead.
 
Upvote 0

ewq1938

I love you three.
Christian Forums Staff
Administrator
Site Supporter
Nov 5, 2011
44,419
6,800
✟916,702.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
Politics
US-Republican
Except Jesus didn't return with a heavenly army and slay the armies of the beast in Ad 70 did he?

Seems to me The Roman army won and killed many Jews rather than Jesus slaying the beast and his army...not to mention the whole being cast into the LOF part.

Also, remind me what part of AD 70 was targeted at Christians? You do know the Olivet discourse is persecution of Christians and not Jews right?


Perfect clarification for 70AD! You may want to research in more detail what the many unfortunate individuals who were inside the gates of Jerusalem had to resort to. Throwing the dead over the wall. Image how many birds feasted on their flesh.

Read Josephus's account, it i quite telling and horrifying.

Chronology of the War According to Josephus: Part 7, The Fall of Jerusalem
 
Upvote 0

ewq1938

I love you three.
Christian Forums Staff
Administrator
Site Supporter
Nov 5, 2011
44,419
6,800
✟916,702.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
Politics
US-Republican
"They are beheaded during the trib for refusing the mark of the beast"? Ya, it definitely doesn't say that.

It does say that:

Rev 20:4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

A reference to this:

Rev 13:1 And I stood upon the sand of the sea, and saw a beast rise up out of the sea, having seven heads and ten horns, and upon his horns ten crowns, and upon his heads the name of blasphemy.
Rev 13:2 And the beast which I saw was like unto a leopard, and his feet were as the feet of a bear, and his mouth as the mouth of a lion: and the dragon gave him his power, and his seat, and great authority.
Rev 13:3 And I saw one of his heads as it were wounded to death; and his deadly wound was healed: and all the world wondered after the beast.
Rev 13:4 And they worshipped the dragon which gave power unto the beast: and they worshipped the beast, saying, Who is like unto the beast? who is able to make war with him?
Rev 13:5 And there was given unto him a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies; and power was given unto him to continue forty and two months.
Rev 13:6 And he opened his mouth in blasphemy against God, to blaspheme his name, and his tabernacle, and them that dwell in heaven.
Rev 13:7 And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations.
Rev 13:8 And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.
Rev 13:9 If any man have an ear, let him hear.
Rev 13:10 He that leadeth into captivity shall go into captivity: he that killeth with the sword must be killed with the sword. Here is the patience and the faith of the saints.
Rev 13:11 And I beheld another beast coming up out of the earth; and he had two horns like a lamb, and he spake as a dragon.
Rev 13:12 And he exerciseth all the power of the first beast before him, and causeth the earth and them which dwell therein to worship the first beast, whose deadly wound was healed.
Rev 13:13 And he doeth great wonders, so that he maketh fire come down from heaven on the earth in the sight of men,
Rev 13:14 And deceiveth them that dwell on the earth by the means of those miracles which he had power to do in the sight of the beast; saying to them that dwell on the earth, that they should make an image to the beast, which had the wound by a sword, and did live.
Rev 13:15 And he had power to give life unto the image of the beast, that the image of the beast should both speak, and cause that as many as would not worship the image of the beast should be killed.
Rev 13:16 And he causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads:
Rev 13:17 And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name.
Rev 13:18 Here is wisdom. Let him that hath understanding count the number of the beast: for it is the number of a man; and his number is Six hundred threescore and six.
 
Upvote 0

ewq1938

I love you three.
Christian Forums Staff
Administrator
Site Supporter
Nov 5, 2011
44,419
6,800
✟916,702.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
Politics
US-Republican
Now if you want to convince me that only the wicked take part in that second resurrection, good luck!

Show us in Rev 20 where the saved are resurrected or judged and receive any positive rewards.
 
Upvote 0

ewq1938

I love you three.
Christian Forums Staff
Administrator
Site Supporter
Nov 5, 2011
44,419
6,800
✟916,702.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
Politics
US-Republican
Both examples say that there is one resurrection for both groups. It's really quite clear. Why do you refuse to accept it? Do you want there to be two separate physical resurrections?


Rev 20 shows two different groups that resurrect that's why I believe it. Neither of your examples say the saved and unsaved resurrect together or at the same time. They only assure that there is a time for each group to resurrect.

Rev 20:4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

Before the thousand years even begins, there are thrones and judgment is given to those sitting on the thrones. Then we are introduced to a group of dead Christian martyrs. Even the Amill scholar Barnes believes not only is there a judgment here but also states it is these dead martyrs that are being judged and there is only one judgment for them, eternal life!


Rev 20:4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.


John sees two groups of people/souls:

1. people sitting on thrones and judgment given to them
2. souls of the tribulation martyrs who instead of remaining dead are said to live with Christ

Claiming 1 and 2 are the same group doesn't make any sense. Those judging are not the second group mentioned. It can only be that second group of martyrs that were being judged and the judgment has to be a resurrection to life which we know is the reward for the dead in Christ.



We see the same event in Daniel:

Dan 7:9 I beheld till the thrones were cast down, and the Ancient of days did sit, whose garment was white as snow, and the hair of his head like the pure wool: his throne was like the fiery flame, and his wheels as burning fire.


Here are multiple thrones and God the Father himself sitting there.


Dan 7:10 A fiery stream issued and came forth from before him: thousand thousands ministered unto him, and ten thousand times ten thousand stood before him: the judgment was set, and the books were opened.


And here again judgment is mentioned and a large group standing before him. This must be the dead in Christ being judged to life because it cannot apply to the unsaved because the beast hasn't yet been slain:


Dan 7:11 I beheld then because of the voice of the great words which the horn spake: I beheld even till the beast was slain, and his body destroyed, and given to the burning flame.


This beast of course is also seen in Rev 19 being destroyed at the return of Christ. What we then have been given is a judgment of a group before the beast is destroyed so that group must be the saved being judged to eternal life as we also see in Rev 20.

Dan 7:12 As concerning the rest of the beasts, they had their dominion taken away: yet their lives were prolonged for a season and time.

And just like it is for the thousand years, some "beasts" (the wicked/unsaved/and satan himself) have their lives prolonged. Indeed during the thousand years satan and many unsaved gentiles of the world's nations will live through the thousand years.

Another example of the righteous being judged separately from the wicked:


Mat 25:34 Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:
Mat 25:35 For I was an hungred, and ye gave me meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me in:
Mat 25:36 Naked, and ye clothed me: I was sick, and ye visited me: I was in prison, and ye came unto me.
Mat 25:37 Then shall the righteous answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, and fed thee? or thirsty, and gave thee drink?
Mat 25:38 When saw we thee a stranger, and took thee in? or naked, and clothed thee?
Mat 25:39 Or when saw we thee sick, or in prison, and came unto thee?
Mat 25:40 And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me.


Here we again have judgment of the righteous first! No wicked are being judged with the righteous. Exactly what Daniel 7 and Rev 20 also show.


Mat 25:41 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:
Mat 25:42 For I was an hungred, and ye gave me no meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me no drink:
Mat 25:43 I was a stranger, and ye took me not in: naked, and ye clothed me not: sick, and in prison, and ye visited me not.
Mat 25:44 Then shall they also answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, or athirst, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not minister unto thee?
Mat 25:45 Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did it not to me.
Mat 25:46 And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.

Christ does not address time in this but according to Rev 20, there is a period of time inbetween the judgment of the dead in Christ vs. the rest of the dead so we know there is time inbetween these two judgments. Even in human courts there is no such concept of judging someone a reward while judging someone to death. That happens at different times. The two don't belong in one court judgment.


1Pe 4:17 For the time is come that judgment must begin at the house of God: and if it first begin at us, what shall the end be of them that obey not the gospel of God?

As you can see, the righteous are judged FIRST. Judgment starts with "us" as Peter confirms.
 
Upvote 0

ToServe

Active Member
Sep 18, 2018
372
90
49
Sydney
✟29,108.00
Country
Australia
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Private
As Rev 2 and 20 show, the reign over the nations with a rod of iron begins at the second coming. Any other forms of reigning is different.

For starters Revelation 2:26-29 is a letter from Christ to his Church. Overcoming and keeping the faith onto the end, which alludes to death (Hebrews 9:15-17), is where the Testator is brought before Christ to receive their Crown of Life and to be counted within his measured inner court (Rev 11:1-2).

he that overcometh, and keepeth my works unto the end, to him will I give power over the nations: And he shall rule them with a rod of iron; as the vessels of a potter shall they be broken to shivers: even as I received of my Father. And I will give him the morning star. He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches.

How Christ received the Father was by faith and the witness is also portrayed as ruling the enemy with a rod of iron, in the same way, Christ rules. It is a letter to the seven Churches and it removes the notion of a military venture of breaking the vessels of a potter to shivers.

Only until Christ returns, defeats the beast and then rules over the nations previously having served the beast.

But that is not what the purpose of Revelation of Jesus Christ is about. It is explicitly revealed in Revelation chapter 2 that the overcomes also rule the enemy with the rod of iron. The message is to the seven Churches and so the method to break them into vessels of a potter is by way of convicting their hearts by the preaching of the Gospel.

Not according to scriptures you haven't yet addressed that show the reign begins at the second coming not ends there.

The reign begins when he commissions his Church and writes a letter to them that if they overcome, they too like him will rule their enemies by a rod of iron. The reign ends when the full complement of disciples are made that are to be ratified in the Book of Life before he comes to open the Book.

That happens during the thousand years and the reign over the nations with a rod of iron ends there because that's when the unsaved will be judged out of the books.

The saved will be judged at Christ's coming and not after some 1000 years later. Jesus will judge the living and the dead at his coming. (2 Timothy 4:1)

Your argument with what scripture states in Rev 2 and 20. I recommend that you answer why they show the ROI reign beginning when he returns.

It ends with the ending of Satan and Death.
 
Upvote 0

ewq1938

I love you three.
Christian Forums Staff
Administrator
Site Supporter
Nov 5, 2011
44,419
6,800
✟916,702.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
Politics
US-Republican
The saved will be judged at Christ's coming and not after some 1000 years later. Jesus will judge the living and the dead at his coming. (2 Timothy 4:1)

Yes the saved are judged at the second coming, both the dead and the living...both will become immortals. The unsaved are not judged at the second coming. Rev 20 shows this.

It ends with the ending of Satan and Death.

Yes but you claim it ends with the second coming yet I posted two passages that say it begins at the second coming.
 
Upvote 0

ToServe

Active Member
Sep 18, 2018
372
90
49
Sydney
✟29,108.00
Country
Australia
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Private
You are misreading Paul.

1Co 15:24 Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power.
1Co 15:25 For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet.

Paul merely skips from the resurrection to the end of the thousand years. All we have to do is read other scriptures that give more detail that Paul did not give:

Paul does not skip from the resurrection to the end of the thousand years as you allege.

You're adding to scripture in order to qualify your narrative and removing from scripture context that does not qualify your narrative.

I will show how you are guilty of the slide of hand.

Resurrection
But each in turn: Christ, the firstfruits; then, when he comes, those who belong to him.

The End
Then the end will come when he hands over the kingdom to God the Father after he has destroyed all dominion, authority and power.

So between the Resurrection and The End what is Paul saying is happening?

Reign of Christ
For he must reign until he has put all his enemies under his feet.

Mission Accomplished
The last enemy to be destroyed is death.

You are inserting a 1000 years between the resurrection and the end, that is the end of the 1000 years.

Paul is merely focussed on the resurrection and when it will happen. He leaves us no doubt that the resurrection cannot be fully accomplished until Christ's reign has accomplished the end goal. So the end cannot come until the end goal is fully met.

Then the end occurs when Christ returns to raise those who belong to him, but in the meantime, he must continue to reign by making his enemies his footstool. Paul is focusing on the resurrection of the dead and linking Christ's reign until the day of his coming where he will destroy the last enemy and deliver the Kingdom to God the Father. A 1000 years reign removes the focal point that is the resurrection and it is clear that there is no gap between Christ's coming and him delivering the Kingdom to God the Father. Paul is explicitly saying that Christ in the present tense must continue to reign until and this comforts the believers that there is a resurrection that will happen at Christ's return when his reign has accomplished what it set out to do through His Gospel.

Rev 2:25 But that which ye have already hold fast till I come.

Here Christ will speak of the same timeframe but will not mention the resurrection as Paul did because Christ's focus here is on other details. Here we see a reference to the second coming.

The letter is to the Church and it is one that directly ties his coming to those who overcome. The focal point of Christ's coming is for his bride and not to rule on earth as an earthly king.

Rev 2:26 And he that overcometh, and keepeth my works unto the end, to him will I give power over the nations:

Here the overcomers that keep Christ's works until the end, will be given power over the nations and this is after Christ has returned. This power is given as part of their rewards.

Again, the overcoming is for the believer within his Church establishment and this involves keeping Christ's work onto the end of their life as Testators, then Christ gives them power over the nations only after they have died in the Lord. Saint Stephan was the first to recieve his reward and to reign with Christ within his inner measured court.

Rev 2:27 And he shall rule them with a rod of iron; as the vessels of a potter shall they be broken to shivers: even as I received of my Father.

And these overcomers will rule the nations after the second coming. Rev 20 goes into even more detail for how long the rule with the rod of iron is to last and what happens after to those who are deceived and follow Satan.

As I received of my Father which is past tense when Christ was on earth and overcame by faith onto death on the Cross. So too, the overcomers who carry their Cross know the way and follow him into the Most-High Place to be his Angelic ministers who are the ones saying Hallelujah rejoice you Heavens and woe onto the inhabitants of the earth.

All the passages must be read to get the full picture. Using one reference from Paul alone will cause confusion. As you can see, the reign of the ROI begins at the second coming not ends there.

You're just ripping out context and serving the purpose of placing a Holy Christ amongst sinners who are fornicating and dying around him within a 1000 year carnal reign of beastly nations. That is not my Lord and many here will realise that the Lord's works do not circumvent his Gospel and the purpose of making disciples of the world through the preaching of the Gospel.

A military takeover of beastly nations by violent means is not characteristic of the Jesus of the Bible and this person who will reign on earth will be the Prince of this world whether he manifests once or umpteen times. Either way, we will never serve an earthly messiah and will be his enemies forever!
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

ToServe

Active Member
Sep 18, 2018
372
90
49
Sydney
✟29,108.00
Country
Australia
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Private
Yes the saved are judged at the second coming, both the dead and the living...both will become immortals. The unsaved are not judged at the second coming. Rev 20 shows this.

That is not what Revelation 20 says.

Then I saw a great white throne and him who was seated on it. The earth and the heavens fled from his presence, and there was no place for them.

Christ brilliant return leaves no place for the 1st earth and the 1st heavens. This means that there are no mortals on terra firma walking around.

And I saw the dead, great and small, standing before the throne, and books were opened. Another book was opened, which is the book of life. The dead were judged according to what they had done as recorded in the books.

All and everyone that ever was born is presented before the Lord in the Final Judgement at his return, as the books are opened and ALL the dead were judged, this includes the saved and the unsaved. The book of Life for the saved and the book of death for the unsaved.

The sea gave up the dead that were in it, and death and Hell gave up the dead that were in them, and each person was judged according to what they had done.

Everyone that ever lived is presented, even those who are serving in Hell and this is the final Judgement. Jesus will judge all when he comes and not just the saved.

Then death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. The lake of fire is the second death.

There leaves no doubt that death and Hell cannot continue and so there is no earthly reign amongst mortals who die and fornicate around the Holy Lord.

Anyone whose name was not found written in the book of life was thrown into the lake of fire.

Anyone who was not found in the Book of Life was also judged and annihilated in the Lake of Fire which is the second death after the earthly body had already died.

Yes but you claim it ends with the second coming yet I posted two passages that say it begins at the second coming.

There is not continuing of what is now when Christ returns with his many Holy Ones for his remnant Elect.
 
Upvote 0

Maria Billingsley

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Oct 7, 2018
9,661
7,879
63
Martinez
✟906,114.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Except Jesus didn't return with a heavenly army and slay the armies of the beast in Ad 70 did he?

Seems to me The Roman army won and killed many Jews rather than Jesus slaying the beast and his army...not to mention the whole being cast into the LOF part.

Also, remind me what part of AD 70 was targeted at Christians? You do know the Olivet discourse is persecution of Christians and not Jews right?

God=Jesus , yes He did first the harlot then the beast shortly after. He has several other times throughout history as well. War is the wrath that God lays upon those who reject Him and those that are unrighteous. He used many pagan nations to achieve His wrath upon other nations including Jerusalem.

A verse to meditate on....God using nations against nations for His purpose of wrath and judgment:

Isaiah
"They are coming from a far country, From the farthest horizons, The LORD and His instruments of indignation, To destroy the whole land."


No Christians were targeted in 70Ad, they fled to the mountains as they were told by Jesus Christ of Nazareth:

Matthew 24
"15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place. 16 Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains: 17 Let him which is on the housetop not come down to take any thing out of his house".
 
Upvote 0

ewq1938

I love you three.
Christian Forums Staff
Administrator
Site Supporter
Nov 5, 2011
44,419
6,800
✟916,702.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
Politics
US-Republican
Anyone who was not found in the Book of Life was also judged and annihilated in the Lake of Fire which is the second death after the earthly body had already died.

The only people standing there are those not in the book of life. That's why none of the saved are shown there nor anyone receiving immortality or any good type of reward.
 
Upvote 0

ewq1938

I love you three.
Christian Forums Staff
Administrator
Site Supporter
Nov 5, 2011
44,419
6,800
✟916,702.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
Politics
US-Republican
God=Jesus , yes He did first the harlot then the beast shortly after. He has several other times throughout history as well.


So how many times is Jesus supposed to come to the Earth since he ascended? Once in Ad 70 and at least one more time?
 
Upvote 0

ewq1938

I love you three.
Christian Forums Staff
Administrator
Site Supporter
Nov 5, 2011
44,419
6,800
✟916,702.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
Politics
US-Republican
No Christians were targeted in 70Ad, they fled to the mountains as they were told by Jesus Christ of Nazareth:

But you believe the Olivet discourse is about what happened in Ad 70 right? Yet you believe Christians weren't the target?
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

ToServe

Active Member
Sep 18, 2018
372
90
49
Sydney
✟29,108.00
Country
Australia
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Private
An earthly messiah will have only one purpose and that is to remove the daily sacrifice owing to the Living Stones of God's only Temple of his Holy Spirit. The Cross and the Holy Spirit is the only guarantee the world has onto their death bed. There is no person that can materialise in this world who can circumvent the salvation plan of God through his Son's Cross.

There is no 1000 years earthly reign and this position is one that is invalidated by the presence of the Holy Spirit, for the world cannot see the Holy Spirit and Christ could not be present whilst the Holy Spirit is present in the world through the Living Stones, which is why the likes of Darby concocted a rapture doctrine that removes the Holy Spirit from the world as to say that a messiah can now materialise.

The notion of God's Holy Spirit being removed from the world is a red flag in Darby's doctrine and pre-millennium earthly reign doctrine amongst its many flaws has an absence of God's salvation plan through the Son. This is the big red flag that people ought to notice, and to reject this doctrine as a prelude to making the way for Christ's enemy to be received by the world. That enemy is the Prince of this world. Whether we have one or million manifestations of an earthly messiah, all must be rejected and considered as enemies of Christ and of God the Father.
 
Upvote 0

Maria Billingsley

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Oct 7, 2018
9,661
7,879
63
Martinez
✟906,114.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
So how many times is Jesus supposed to come to the Earth since he ascended? Once in Ad 70 and at least one more time?

Jesus has been here since before the beginning. Interacting with Israel in the Old Testament, He came in the flesh in the New Testament and He will come again ONCE for His Bride on the last day.

I am a partial preterist so we will not see it the same way.
Blessings
 
Upvote 0

Maria Billingsley

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Oct 7, 2018
9,661
7,879
63
Martinez
✟906,114.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
But you believe the Olivet discourse is about what happened in Ad 70 right? Yet you believe Christians weren't the target?
Two different things. One is wrath by God the other is persecution by unbelievers.
 
Upvote 0

ewq1938

I love you three.
Christian Forums Staff
Administrator
Site Supporter
Nov 5, 2011
44,419
6,800
✟916,702.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
Politics
US-Republican
Jesus has been here since before the beginning. Interacting with Israel in the Old Testament, He came in the flesh in the New Testament and He will come again ONCE for His Bride on the last day.

I am a partial preterist so we will not see it the same way.
Blessings


Well, I did ask "how many times is Jesus supposed to come to the Earth since he ascended?" not how many times before the acsension. The point is to figure out how many times Jesus leaves heaven to come to the Earth since you believe Rev 19 is about Ad70 and Rev 19 clearly shows Jesus leaving heaven and fighting people on Earth. That would mean you believe t5eh second coming would be Ad 70 and a third coming for the bride. Naturally my point would be there is only one time since the acsension that Jesus will leave heaven and return to the Earth.
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

ToServe

Active Member
Sep 18, 2018
372
90
49
Sydney
✟29,108.00
Country
Australia
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Private
The only people standing there are those not in the book of life. That's why none of the saved are shown there nor anyone receiving immortality or any good type of reward.

The books are opened and all are judged according to those books at Christ's return. There is no rock unturned and no person born that is not accounted for, for the sea gave up its dead alluding that even the dead at the bottom of the sea will be judged and will not escape Christ's judgement.
 
Upvote 0