Main Problems w "A" or "Post" Millenialism?

YeshuaFan

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Is that the reign that premils believe Jesus will sit on a physical throne in Jerusalem and require human beings to be physically circumcised and render blood animal sacrifices directly at His feet for the atonement of their sins and acceptance by Him?
Nope, but is the reigning here on earth where the entire earth obeys and follows jesus, no other religions around, paradise restored, and the nations come up to Him and observe the OT sacrifice in a memorial fashion, much the same way we do Communion today!
Is that the reign that premils believe Jesus will sit on a physical throne in Jerusalem and require human beings to be physically circumcised and render blood animal sacrifices directly at His feet for the atonement of their sins and acceptance by Him?
Is that the reign that premils believe Jesus will sit on a physical throne in Jerusalem and require human beings to be physically circumcised and render blood animal sacrifices directly at His feet for the atonement of their sins and acceptance by Him?
 
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LastSeven

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Let me ask this then. According to Scripture, which comes first? In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality----or the great white throne judgment?

If the former comes first, obviously this mortal that has put on immortality, that one is no longer considered to be of the dead for forever more. Maybe you hadn't noticed, but everyone at the great white throne judgment, they are all raised from the dead at that particular time.

Why would immortals be at a judgment and being judged where only those raised from the dead are being judged? If the dead in Christ rise first, then the rapture follows, followed by Jesus destroying the alive wicked still remaining on the earth, the great white throne judgment obviously can't precede any of these events.

The point being, the dead in Christ are obviously raised from the dead as well, but they are not raised from the dead when those that are in attendance at the great white throne judgment are. If Scripture says the dead in Christ rise first, it means what it says, thus no resurrection of the lost occurring at the same time since that would make it a moot point about the dead in Christ rising first. Not to mention, the great white throne judgment can't precede the fulfilling of Revelation 19:17-21, nor the fulfilling of Revelation 20:9, and that the last trump and the rapture both precede these events. And speaking of the rapture, no one in the rapture even dies, so how can they, too, be raised from the dead in order to be judged at the great white throne judgment?

Everyone is resurrected before the judgment. (Both the righteous and the wicked) It seems to me you have to be resurrected before you can stand before the throne. You can't stand there if you're still a corpse.
 
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LastSeven

Amil
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As you can see, scripture does not support your belief that Christ's rule over the nations ends when he returns. It agrees with Premil that his rule begins when he returns.
You must have skipped over Acts 3:21 then because that verse together with 1 Corinthians 15 100% supports my belief that Christ's rule ends when he returns. In fact, that's why I believe it. I'm certainly not pulling it out of thin air.
 
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Billy Evmur

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There won't be a millennium. Only a new heavens and earth beginning on the last day.

You can't do that, you can't hold up Revs 21. but dismiss Revs. 20. The thousand years comes first.
 
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parousia70

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Nope, but is the reigning here on earth where the entire earth obeys and follows jesus, no other religions around, paradise restored, and the nations come up to Him and observe the OT sacrifice in a memorial fashion, much the same way we do Communion today!


How are these "memorial"?

Ezekiel 40:39
In the porch of the gate were two tables on each side, on which to slaughter the burnt offering, the sin offering and the guilt offering.

Ezekiel 42:13
the priests who are near to the LORD shall eat the most holy things. There they shall lay the most holy things, the grain offering, the sin offering and the guilt offering;

Ezekiel 43:20
'You shall take some of its blood and put it on its four horns and on the four corners of the ledge and on the border round about; thus you shall cleanse it and make atonement for it. (Memorial Atonement?)

Ezekiel 43:21
'You shall also take the bull for the sin offering

Ezekiel 43:22
'On the second day you shall offer a male goat without blemish for a sin offering

Ezekiel 43:27
'When they have completed the days, it shall be that on the eighth day and onward, the priests shall offer your burnt offerings on the altar, and your peace offerings; AND I WILL ACCEPT YOU

Ezekiel 44:9
'Thus says the Lord GOD, "No foreigner uncircumcised in heart and uncircumcised in flesh of all the foreigners who are among the sons of Israel, shall enter My sanctuary.

(Jesus is going to require "Memorial Circumcision" of everyone who enters the sanctuary? Really?)

Ezekiel 44:10
"But the Levites who went far from Me when Israel went astray, who went astray from Me after their idols, shall bear the punishment for their iniquity. Yet they shall be ministers in My sanctuary, having oversight at the gates of the house and ministering in the house; they shall slaughter the burnt offering and the sacrifice for the people

Ezekiel 44:23
"Moreover, they shall teach My people the difference between the holy and the profane, and cause them to discern between the unclean and the clean.
 
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Dave L

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You can't do that, you can't hold up Revs 21. but dismiss Revs. 20. The thousand years comes first.
The 1000 years = Satan's binding, not the kingdom. Satan attacks the kingdom when loosed.
 
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ewq1938

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In 2 Timothy 4:1 Paul said that Christ will judge both the living and the dead at His appearing, not 1,000 years later.


Yep, the living saints are raptured and the dead saints are resurrected at the second coming. Rev 20 also says "the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished" which indicates another resurrection day for others that are dead.
 
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Billy Evmur

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The 1000 years = Satan's binding, not the kingdom. Satan attacks the kingdom when loosed.

One minnit you say there is no kingdom, no thousand years, now you say the devil will attack the kingdom after 1,000 years...not in heaven but here on earth.

Then comes the final resurrection and the NHNE.
 
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Billy Evmur

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Yep, the living saints are raptured and the dead saints are resurrected at the second coming. Rev 20 also says "the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished" which indicates another resurrection day for others that are dead.

This is totally correct....they cherry pick which scriptures to use that seem to back up their argument.
 
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Dave L

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One minnit you say there is no kingdom, no thousand years, now you say the devil will attack the kingdom after 1,000 years...not in heaven but here on earth.

Then comes the final resurrection and the NHNE.
The kingdom is here now. I'm saying the 1000 years are not the kingdom. They represent the binding of Satan. He attacks the kingdom when loosed.
 
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Billy Evmur

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The kingdom is here now. I'm saying the 1000 years are not the kingdom. They represent the binding of Satan. He attacks the kingdom when loosed.

Yes you are saying the devil is now bound...the scripture does not agree with you, nor do the newspapers or the history books....
 
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ewq1938

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Yes you are saying the devil is now bound...the scripture does not agree with you, nor do the newspapers or the history books....


Amil talks about Satan bound but with lots of freedom....they don't talk about being in a pit like prison and a seal placed on it so he cannot get out. And, Satan being unable to deceive the nations changes into he is able to deceive them in a lesser manner than before. Lots of changes here and there to ultimately change what Rev 20 says.
 
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Dave L

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Yes you are saying the devil is now bound...the scripture does not agree with you, nor do the newspapers or the history books....
“But if I with the finger of God cast out devils, no doubt the kingdom of God is come upon you.” (Luke 11:20) (KJV 1900)
You are assuming too much about Satan's binding. God still uses him every minute to bring wrath on the enemies of truth.
 
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Billy Evmur

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Amil talks about Satan bound but with lots of freedom....they don't talk about being in a pit like prison and a seal placed on it so he cannot get out. And, Satan being unable to deceive the nations changes into he is able to deceive them in a lesser manner than before. Lots of changes here and there to ultimately change what Rev 20 says.

Yes because they are defending a doctrinal stance instead of reading the bible straight.
 
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Billy Evmur

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“But if I with the finger of God cast out devils, no doubt the kingdom of God is come upon you.” (Luke 11:20) (KJV 1900)
You are assuming too much about Satan's binding. God still uses him every minute to bring wrath on the enemies of truth.

No when he is bound he will no longer deceive the nations, the only power he ever had was to deceive.
 
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DavidPT

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It would be helpful if you could give direct quotes from scripture to support your claims. Any chance for this?


I apologize for not doing that. The Scriptures in question have already been brought up, so I was wrongly assuming it would be known which ones I was referring to. One of them is 1 Corinthians 15:24-28, the other being Revelation 20:4 and Revelation 20:6.
 
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Dave L

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I apologize for not doing that. The Scriptures in question have already been brought up, so I was wrongly assuming it would be known which ones I was referring to. One of them is 1 Corinthians 15:24-28, the other being Revelation 20:4 and Revelation 20:6.
All of these fit better in the Amillennial position than in any other scheme.
 
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