If Water Baptism Saves, Then Explain What Happened To Me!

StephenDiscipleofYHWH · Nov 12, 2018

Thess said:
I agree with you. God is God, Jesus is God and the Holy Spirit is God. This is why we are baptized into One God, the Father, Son and Holy Spirit. I'd hate to pick at straws, here.

being baptized into death and buried with Christ is being born again through water baptism. We are completely buried in the water with Christ being dead with him and then we are raised up out of the water with him being born again out of the womb of the water. The spirit is only part of it and can come before or after baptism by water.

Thess · Nov 12, 2018

StephenDiscipleofYHWH said:
being baptized into death and buried with Christ is being born again through water baptism. We are completely buried in the water with Christ being dead with him and then we are raised up out of the water with him being born again out of the womb of the water. The spirit is only part of it and can come before or after baptism by water.

Alright, if you say so. The implications are huge, for I can only imagine how many people went to hell in Africa during their many famines, totaling almost thirty years of no water. They had true, effectual belief, but because there was no water....well, dang. What a brutal God you have.

StephenDiscipleofYHWH · Nov 12, 2018

Thess said:
Alright, if you say so. The implications are huge, for I can only imagine how many people went to hell in Africa during their many famines, totaling almost thirty years of no water. They had true, effectual belief, but because there was no water....well, dang. What a brutal God you have.

If they did not have the opportunity to keep this work then they are still saved by their faith. It would only be an issue if they lived next to a river their whole life and knew many other believers but chose to never be baptized. It is a work that must be performed by those who are able, and we all must seek out someone to baptize us if we have no one. If we die before that happens then we are just in the eyes of the Lord still being saved by our faith apart from works.

Thess · Nov 12, 2018

StephenDiscipleofYHWH said:
If they did not have the opportunity to keep this work then they are still saved by their faith. It would only be an issue if they lived next to a river their whole life and knew many other believers but chose to never be baptized. It is a work that must be performed by those who are able, and we all must seek out someone to baptize us if we have no one. If we die before that happens then we are just in the eyes of the Lord still being saved by our faith apart from works.

I hear you, but now you have the problem of "who" is baptizing you. Let's see, my pastor baptized me, and he was the one that authorized my mother to beat me with 8 feet of garden hose. I was only a little boy.

My father baptized my older brother, but, my father has attempted murder three times against my former step-mother, beat my mother on their wedding night in the shower, and he also threatened to murder his own father as well as went to the very church (shall I go on and on and on?), where I was baptized and where he baptized his eldest son, to murder our pastor with his gun.

I am saved through a pastor that authorized my mother to illegally beat me? Is my older brother saved through the man that attempted murder and paid a gay man a monthly installment to take me when I was only 14 years old? And this man, by the way, wanted me sexually. Unbelievable.

Sorry, God does not honor these people, in my deepest of opinion. BTW: the water did nothing for my two brothers. They're total heathens, still.

Maria Billingsley · Nov 12, 2018

Thess said:
So how is it possible, that after water baptism, which saves, how is it that I could become a complete and total monster, negatively effecting thousands of people throughout my life post baptism?

It is the CROSS that saves you. It is the baptism of the Holy Spirit that guilds you.

I suspect you are missing His guidance.

Blessings.

Thess · Nov 12, 2018

Maria Billingsley said:
It is the CROSS that saves you. It is the baptism of the Holy Spirit that guilds you.

I suspect you are missing His guidance.

Blessings.

No, it's always the same factor; I didn't believe, proven by the very short list of awful disobedience that I've listed above (could have been ten pages). I had a form of belief that allowed me to lie in front of my church, that I believed. That describes everyone I've ever known that called themselves a "Christian", totally fake, proven by their inability and refusal to obey, let alone even improve. People are just getting worse and worse, and that's impossible for one that is truly saved.

Maria Billingsley · Nov 12, 2018

Thess said:
No, it's always the same factor; I didn't believe, proven by the very short list of awful disobedience that I've listed above (could have been ten pages). I had a form of belief that allowed me to lie in front of my church, that I believed. That describes everyone I've ever known that called themselves a "Christian", totally fake, proven by their inability and refusal to obey, let alone even improve. People are just getting worse and worse, and that's impossible for one that is truly saved.

Have you received the Holy Spirit?

StephenDiscipleofYHWH · Nov 12, 2018

Thess said:
I hear you, but now you have the problem of "who" is baptizing you. Let's see, my pastor baptized me, and he was the one that authorized my mother to beat me with 8 feet of garden hose. I was only a little boy.

My father baptized my older brother, but, my father has attempted murder three times against my former step-mother, beat my mother on their wedding night in the shower, and he also threatened to murder his own father as well as went to the very church (shall I go on and on and on?), where I was baptized and where he baptized his eldest son, to murder our pastor with his gun.

I am saved through a pastor that authorized my mother to illegally beat me? Is my older brother saved through the man that attempted murder and paid a gay man a monthly installment to take me when I was only 14 years old? And this man, by the way, wanted me sexually. Unbelievable.

Sorry, God does not honor these people, in my deepest of opinion. BTW: the water did nothing for my two brothers. They're total heathens, still.

Was he righteous when he baptized you? Had he repented of his sins that day before doing it? Did he have faith in God? Does he still? That is up to God to decide, but so long as the person baptizing believes on the Lord and his name then the baptism is valid on his end and the baptism is valid on your end by your own faith.

Here are all the steps required before and during baptism. The First 5 and number 8 pertains to our faith in Christ, his name, and what we must believe to be saved. 6-7 is what we must do to be forgiven. 9-10 is about the baptism iteself being fully immersed in water and baptized in the single name of Christ and not just his titles.
1. In order to saved you must first believe on Yahshua the Christ
John 3:3,15-18,35-36
Acts 16:31-33
John 6:47
John 5:24
John 14:1
Romans 10:8-9
Hebrews 11:6
Acts 10:43
1 John 5:4-13
Mark 16:16
___________________________________________________________________________
2. We must believe that Christ was God manifest in the Flesh
1 Timothy 3:16
Collosians 2:8-9
John 1:1,14
John 8:28
__________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
3. Must believe Christ lived a sinless life
1 Peter 2:22
2 Corinthians 5:21
Hebrews 4:15
1 John 3:5
1 Peter 1:18-19
__________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
4. Must belive Christ died for all mans sins
Luke 1:77
Acts 13:38
Hebrews 10:16-18
Luke 24:45-47
______________________________________________________________________________________________________________
5. We must believe he raised himself from the Grave on the Third day
John 2:19-21
John 10:17-18
_______________________________________________________________________________________________
6. We must repent of all our past sins and ask the Lord for forgiveness in the name of Yahshua the Christ
Luke 24:45-47
Acts 2:36-39
Luke 3:2-4,18-21
Matt 4:17
Revelation 3:19
Acts 17:30
Luke 15:7,10
Mark 1:4,15
Luke 5:32
Matt 9:13
Acts 8:16,19
Acts 10:43, 48
Acts 19:5
Acts 22:16
1 Cor 1:13
1 John 1:8-10
Acts 13:24

1 Cor 12:13
13 For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.

___________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
7. We must forgive all those who have sinned against us or we will not be forgiven
Matthew 6:14-6:15
Matthew 18:15,21-22
Colossians 3:12-13
2 Corinthians 2:7-11
Ephesians 4:32
Mark 11:25-26
_____________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
8. One name given under heaven given unto man by which they may be saved, Yahshua the Christ
Acts 4:10-12
Matt 28:18-20
Acts 10:48
____________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
9. Baptized into Christ's death and born again into everlasting life
Romans 6:3-11
John 3:2-7
Galatians 2:19-20
Colossians 2:10-15,19-23
1 John 5:5-8
__________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
10. Must be Baptized in the Name of Yahshua the Christ Alone for forgiveness and remission of Sins
Matthew 28:19-20
Acts 2:38
Acts 19:5
_________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

Thess · Nov 12, 2018

Maria Billingsley said:
Have you received the Holy Spirit?

Oh my, yes! In a Powerful way that few could possibly comprehend. I've felt His power, so much so that if He had shared more of His proving Love and Peace, I would have been physically harmed. And this, with NO baptism except for when I was a little boy....and only did it to gain the affection of my father whom baptized my older brother. But now, I am a 100% believe that knows how to "test", I have an R12-2 experience, I love ALL people. I find forgiveness to be extremely easy. My life is not my own and since God found me in the Arizona desert, my life has steadily climbed in my morality, and now so much so, that I am transparent. Anyone can inspect every part of me at any notice. I am totally open to judgement by all people and it doesn't bother me. People can judge away....I am confident.

Thess · Nov 12, 2018

StephenDiscipleofYHWH said:
Was he righteous when he baptized you? Had he repented of his sins that day before doing it? Did he have faith in God? Does he still? That is up to God to decide, but so long as the person baptizing believes on the Lord and his name then the baptism is valid on his end and the baptism is valid on your end by your own faith.

Here are all the steps required before and during baptism. The First 5 and number 8 pertains to our faith in Christ, his name, and what we must believe to be saved. 6-7 is what we must do to be forgiven. 9-10 is about the baptism iteself being fully immersed in water and baptized in the single name of Christ and not just his titles.
1. In order to saved you must first believe on Yahshua the Christ
John 3:3,15-18,35-36
Acts 16:31-33
John 6:47
John 5:24
John 14:1
Romans 10:8-9
Hebrews 11:6
Acts 10:43
1 John 5:4-13
Mark 16:16
___________________________________________________________________________
2. We must believe that Christ was God manifest in the Flesh
1 Timothy 3:16
Collosians 2:8-9
John 1:1,14
John 8:28
__________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
3. Must believe Christ lived a sinless life
1 Peter 2:22
2 Corinthians 5:21
Hebrews 4:15
1 John 3:5
1 Peter 1:18-19
__________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
4. Must belive Christ died for all mans sins
Luke 1:77
Acts 13:38
Hebrews 10:16-18
Luke 24:45-47
______________________________________________________________________________________________________________
5. We must believe he raised himself from the Grave on the Third day
John 2:19-21
John 10:17-18
_______________________________________________________________________________________________
6. We must repent of all our past sins and ask the Lord for forgiveness in the name of Yahshua the Christ
Luke 24:45-47
Acts 2:36-39
Luke 3:2-4,18-21
Matt 4:17
Revelation 3:19
Acts 17:30
Luke 15:7,10
Mark 1:4,15
Luke 5:32
Matt 9:13
Acts 8:16,19
Acts 10:43, 48
Acts 19:5
Acts 22:16
1 Cor 1:13
1 John 1:8-10
Acts 13:24

1 Cor 12:13
13 For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.

___________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
7. We must forgive all those who have sinned against us or we will not be forgiven
Matthew 6:14-6:15
Matthew 18:15,21-22
Colossians 3:12-13
2 Corinthians 2:7-11
Ephesians 4:32
Mark 11:25-26
_____________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
8. One name given under heaven given unto man by which they may be saved, Yahshua the Christ
Acts 4:10-12
Matt 28:18-20
Acts 10:48
____________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
9. Baptized into Christ's death and born again into everlasting life
Romans 6:3-11
John 3:2-7
Galatians 2:19-20
Colossians 2:10-15,19-23
1 John 5:5-8
__________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
10. Must be Baptized in the Name of Yahshua the Christ Alone for forgiveness and remission of Sins
Matthew 28:19-20
Acts 2:38
Acts 19:5
_________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

This is pretty cool. Where did you copy and paste this from?

StephenDiscipleofYHWH · Nov 12, 2018

Thess said:
This is pretty cool. Where did you copy and paste this from?

From the list of studies that I wrote.

Thess · Nov 12, 2018

StephenDiscipleofYHWH said:
From the list of studies that I wrote.

Much respect. I am much more apt to listen to the studies of an individual. I place no confidence in the teachings of human beings that may or may not have had an R12-2 transformation (commentaries). I've copied your full set of text and will be going through it soon. I'm in the process of writing a document myself. Thanks again!

StephenDiscipleofYHWH · Nov 12, 2018

Thess said:
Must respect. I am much more apt to listen to the studies of an individual. I place no confidence in the teachings of human beings that may or may not have had an R12-2 transformation. I've copied your full set of text and will be going through it soon. I'm in the process of writing a document myself. Thanks again!

Happy to help brother, and may God guide you in your studies.

spiritfilledjm · Nov 12, 2018

Two questions, and sorry if you've already answered this, I didn't see it and I would love an answer before I formulate a response. First...why did you get saved? Second...what denomination of church were you attending at the time?

Maria Billingsley · Nov 12, 2018

Thess said:
Oh my, yes! In a Powerful way that few could possibly comprehend. I've felt His power, so much so that if He had shared more of His proving Love and Peace, I would have been physically harmed. And this, with NO baptism except for when I was a little boy....and only did it to gain the affection of my father whom baptized my older brother. But now, I am a 100% believe that knows how to "test", I have an R12-2 experience, I love ALL people. I find forgiveness to be extremely easy. My life is not my own and since God found me in the Arizona desert, my life has steadily climbed in my morality, and now so much so, that I am transparent. Anyone can inspect every part of me at any notice. I am totally open to judgement by all people and it doesn't bother me. People can judge away....I am confident.

Sorry I see a total disconnect between your statement above and the statement you made when you started this thread below:

Thess said:
So how is it possible, that after water baptism, which saves, how is it that I could become a complete and total monster, negatively effecting thousands of people throughout my life post baptism?

Blessings

Thess · Nov 12, 2018

spiritfilledjm said:
Two questions, and sorry if you've already answered this, I didn't see it and I would love an answer before I formulate a response. First...why did you get saved? Second...what denomination of church were you attending at the time?

Great question. In hindsight, I am able to see and admit that I never truly believed, but because of my baptism, I had hoped that the nagging voice in my deepest corners of my mind which kept telling me, "But you weren't serious about serving Christ....you're worse off than ever before", I hoped it would go away. So I know that I did not receive the Spirit back then. I was needing the affection of my father, whom had baptized my older brother, but my father refused and my Pastor performed the deed. I was terribly disappointed.

It was the Church of Christ. It was a normal church, filled with amazing people, but the gist of it is all the same as churches across the board. All are hypocritical and wouldn't survive the judgement of Paul as He shows in 1 and 2 Corinthians and Galatians. What's going on in churches today is far worse than what he was dealing with.

So anyway, the only baptism that I have had was bogus, totally bogus. I was a total fake and fraud, proven by the long list of ridiculous sins of mine.

Thess · Nov 12, 2018

Maria Billingsley said:
Sorry I see a total disconnect between your statement above and the statement you made when you started this thread below:

Blessings

I'm not sure why. My post is about water baptism, that if the power is in the water, then why did my life turn out to be as it was, horrifically sinful. I got worse and worse and worse, like just about every person on the planet, proved by its condition, which means that there's no way that I had received the Spirit, for when you receive the Spirit, we are washed with a Spiritual cleansing that compels us to no longer live for ourselves, seeing the incredible urgency of reaching the lost souls whose hearts are hardened.

ICONO'CLAST · Nov 12, 2018

HTacianas said:
Baptism cleanses us of our previous sins and brings us into the grace of God. It does not turn us into robots.

Even after baptism we must still cooperate with the grace of God to attain salvation. If we cooperate with that grace we will eventually attain it. If we choose to have our own will over God's will, we will not attain it.

1Co 9:24 - Do you not know that those who run in a race all run, but one receives the prize? Run in such a way that you may obtain it.

1Co 9:27 - But I discipline my body and bring it into subjection, lest, when I have preached to others, I myself should become disqualified.

This is completely wrong and not close to biblical teaching on salvation or sanctification.

HTacianas · Nov 12, 2018

ICONO'CLAST said:
This is completely wrong and not close to biblical teaching on salvation or sanctification.

Perhaps you can help us out by giving us your perspective.

Thess · Nov 12, 2018

HTacianas said:
Perhaps you can help us out by giving us your perspective.

To be informative, we've gone over these answers repeatedly in this thread.

If Water Baptism Saves, Then Explain What Happened To Me!

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