If Water Baptism Saves, Then Explain What Happened To Me!

Thess · Nov 12, 2018

LoveofTruth said:
Baptism saves us, but not water baptism. Thecsaving baptism is not the putting away of the filth of the flesh (or an outward washing) but the answer of a good conscience by the resurrection of Jesus Christ 1 Peter 3:21.

For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body.1 Corinthians. 12:13. The baptism into Christ through faith saves not water baptism. This saving baptism is we’re we are crucified with Christ buried with him and risen with him through faith.

This saving baptism is connected to Christ resurrection and our being risen with him. This is an inward work in the heart. We first must have a broken spirit and humble and contrite heart before the seed is planted in our heart. The seed or word of God that is sown, first word breaks up the ground of our heart and is like a fire and a hammer that breaks up the rocky part of our heart this is we're the word is as a light that reproves all sin. Then if we receive him (Christ the seed, and word of God, the true Light that lighters every man that comets into the world) then he gives us power to become the sons of God. Then Christ dwells (abides) in our heart by faith.

Then at this point God dwells in us working in us to make us perfect unto every good work (Hebrews 13:20,21). And as we abide in him by faith we overcome the world.

If we yield to the flesh however we die and walk in darkness and need to repent. But if we yield to the Spirit and continue in His word we live and then through the Spirit we mortify the deeds of the body.

All must examine themselves if they are in the faith if they have been truly baptized into Christ, immersed in Himane if Christvis formed in them.

Water baptism was under the old covenant with the law and it was for Israel at that time. John baptised (past tense) with water but yecshall be baptised eith the Holy Ghost (Acts 1).

And in Acts we see the Jewish believers still in transition or reformation from the old to the new (Hebrews 9). These diverse washings(baptisms) and carnal ordinances were imposed in them until the time of reformation. We also see that the Jewish believers were still going to the temple all through Acts and sacrificing animals and keeping the law and the customs of the old covenant for a long time Acts 21.

But the Gentiles did not need to be brought under the old covenant that was fading away and ready to vanish (Hebrews 8:13.) then try to bring them out of it again. Paul said he was the apostle to the Gentiles and by this ministry he could say that Christ sent him not to baptised [with eater] but to preach the gospel (2 Cor 1.) and he defines the saving gospel again in 1 Cor 15:1-5. Notice that there is no water baptism added to the gospel in any way for salvation. And no circumcision, no mosaic law, no sabbath, no works iof man at all.

Wonderfully written. What you glean from the Scriptures is what I glean as well, as it seems clearly written with Scripture interpreting scripture. Great job and great post!

Thess · Nov 12, 2018

StephenDiscipleofYHWH said:
So the reason you went out and immediately sinned after water baptism is because you lacked the faith love and repentance required before being baptized by water. Water baptism is only one of the requirements to enter into the kingdom of heaven.

Mark 1:8 does not agree with your statement. We are immersed into and united with the Holy Spirit....that is the baptism, the "new and more powerful" baptism. I guess it's very obvious to me and not others....I find that interesting and sad at the same time.

Thess · Nov 12, 2018

PaulCyp1 said:
Baptism doesn't "save". It makes us eligible for salvation, but we are still free to refuse salvation.

That's an interesting idea. Can you show in Scriptures what you mean? Mark 1:8 shows me that there is no step process. It is a spiritual baptism into the Name of God. Water baptism is old, just like the Law of Moses. But righteous acts are no longer required, for Christ completed that Righteous act for us on the Cross. This is why anyone can be saved anywhere, any time even if there is no water....anywhere. Our God is Power and Almighty, and He has created an easy way which is Jesus. The tough part is....do we have an effectual belief.

Thess · Nov 12, 2018

fat wee robin said:
Disagree , it is you who is being disrespectful .

Thank you, for that's exactly what I thought as I explained the purpose of this thread quite clearly. Moreover, I used myself as the primary example of what it is to be lazy and terrible. That's me! I used myself to lead this pack of wretchedness, so I was referring to myself as the primary leader of offenses. I have done remarkable harm, so I certainly haven't made myself as one who is holier than thou. I have thrown myself under the bus so that we could all learn....and that ought not be confused with being rude or difficult. For if I was, then I was rude and offensive first unto my own self. But I'm not offended by my own self-description. I'm over myself and don't need anyone to view me as perfect.

Thess · Nov 12, 2018

Oldmantook said:
47 “Can anyone withhold water for baptizing these people, who have received the Holy Spirit just as we have?” 48 And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ. Then they asked him to remain for some days. Acts 10:47-48

Exactly. They received the Holy Spirit FIRST, so if they've been given the Holy Spirit already, it would be lunatic to then ask permission for water baptism. It's so obvious that I don't understand why people don't see this. I hope that you do. Thanks for sharing!

Thess · Nov 12, 2018

Frost27 said:
Thank you, thank you for your comment! It was almost surreal reading your words, it was as if I myself had written that. How you describe your personal experience is very very similar to my own. In fact, I got “goose bumps” while reading; the fact you chose to focus on ROMANS 12:2 in relation to this topic, because this specific scripture, Romans 12:2 made a tremendous impact on me when I read it the 1st time. Romans 12:2 is one the top verses that I frequently like to refer back to & go over to keep me on the right path & strong in my faith, mission, & purpose. Awesome post by you & very Helpful!

Welcome, and I thank you for your support and encouraging words. If I could meet you, you'd be the first person I've ever met (not merely heard about) that understands the NECESSITY of the confirming power of R12-2. People read that passage and they blaze right past it, just like I did for over four decades, wondering if that would ever happen to me. Well, it didn't happen because I wasn't putting for effort IN my relationship WITH my God. No one can have an R12-2 experience until their heart becomes willing to change and the one thing that helps us to change comes through feeling a piece of Hell. When we grasp the reality of Hell, everyone 100% would turn to God and obey like never before! But, humans have little capacity to understand Hell, let alone fear it. "Christians", just like you and I used to be, are totally asleep. And I know that you agree with me, for I know for a fact that you feel, literally feel like a foreigner in a strange land. When you go outside, you know that you are different, that few have your scope and view of things. I don't know about you, but the rewards from God for obedience causes me to deeply feel loved by Him. Unbelievable! Why won't "Christian's" listen and make themselves a slave to Christ so as to have total peace and freedom? We are so blind....such hardened hearts.

Thess · Nov 12, 2018

Andy centek said:
BSOCS--Blessings

Remarkable truth for a change! You are exactly correct in what you stated, in my opinion. Churches today are full of religion and lack sadly in spiritual truth: My opinion. That is why I no longer am able to attend one.
This is not to say however that there may not be a very descent ones out there somewhere. How many however follow the teachings of the apostle Paul whom Jesus Christ gave to inform the Gentile world of His truth?
Today there are Denominations on top of Denominations teaching falseness. The word Denominations has a hidden message in itself: Devils Set On Men, and, Demons set on nations. How interesting is this hidden message to the peoples.

Andy Centek

Thank you, Andy, for your post. Like you, I believe that I'll find a church that can handle having a few seeds planted. But so far, and I attend churches until I can't take the hypocrisy anymore and then move on to the next. I've been able to attend one individual church for no more than two weeks before it becomes clear that it condones sexual provocation, including two "Christian" churches who either openly discussed gay leadership, or the leadership itself was cracking jokes about being gay....right in front of myself and my friend. And that happened last week.

The two music leaders sat down in front of us. One had the earring in his ear. The looked at him and like a gay man said, "Come here honey", pointing next to his body. The man with the earring blew him a gay kiss." What in the world is going on in our churches? Can you imagine what Paul would have done in churches that behave this way in front of their first timer guests? People would have been kicked out and churches all across the world would be shut down, if up to him. Just ridiculous, this false, fake church system that we have today. Millions are being fed a false Gospel and false gospels are "no gospel at all".

Again, thank you!

Thess · Nov 12, 2018

LoveGodsWord said:
THERE IS ONLY ONE TRUE GOSPEL THAT SAVES US AND IT IS EVERLASTING

WHAT IS THE EVERLASTING GOSPEL?

REVELATION 14:6, And I saw another angel fly in midheaven, having the EVERLASTING GOSPEL [εὐαγγέλιον meaning good news] to preach unto them that dwell on the earth, and to every nation, and tribe, and tongue, and people,

NOTE: The GREEK Word used here G2098 εὐαγγέλιον means simply good news; So the first angels message is preaching the everlasting GOOD NEWS to all people of the earth.

WHAT DOES THE EVERLASTING GOSPEL REPRESENT?

1 PETER 1:25, But THE WORD OF THE LORD ENDURES FOREVER [EVERLASTING WORD OF GOD]. And this is the word which by the GOSPEL [GOOD NEWS] is preached unto you.

LUKE 21:33, Heaven and earth shall pass away: BUT MY WORDS SHALL NOT PASS AWAY [EVERLASTING WORD OF GOD].

ISAIAH 40:8, The grass withers, the flower fades, But THE WORD OF OUR GOD STANDS FOREVER [GOD’S WORD IS EVERLASTING].

JOHN 17:17, SANCTIFY THEM THROUGH THE TRUTH, YOUR WORD IS TRUTH [GOD’S WORD IS TRUTH AND WE ARE SAVED BY IT – Good news indeed].

MATTHEW 4:4 Man does not live by bread alone but by EVERY WORD THAT PROCEEDS OUT OF THE MOUTH OF GOD [LIFE FROM THE WORD OF GOD]

JOHN 1:1-4; 14
[1], In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and THE WORD WAS GOD.

[2], The same was in the beginning with God.

[3], All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.

[4], In him was life; and the life was the light of men.

[14], And THE WORD WAS MADE FLESH, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.

NOTE: JESUS is the living WORD OF GOD.

[12], But as many as received him [THE WORD OF GOD], to them gave he power to become the children of God, EVEN TO THEM THAT BELIEVE ON HIS NAME [MATTHEW 1:21, And she shall bring forth a son, and you shall call his name JESUS: for he shall save his people from their sins.]

NOTE: v12 and MATTHEW 1:21. JOHN 1:12 As many as received him [THE WORD OF GOD] to them he gave POWER to become the children of GOD. His name is JESUS [THE WORD OF GOD] because he [THE WORD OF GOD] will save all who receive him [BELIEVE AND FOLLOW THE WORD OF GOD]

1 PETER 1:22-23,

[22], Seeing you have purified your souls in obeying the truth through the Spirit unto sincere love of the brethren, see that you love one another with a pure heart fervently:

[23], BEING BORN AGAIN, NOT OF CORRUPTIBLE SEED BUT OF INCORUPTIBLE, BY THE WORD OF GOD, which lives and ABIDES FOREVER [EVERLASTING].

LUKE 8:11, NOW THIS IS THE PARABLE; THE SEED IS THE WORD OF GOD.

1 JOHN 3:9, Whoever is born of God does not commit sin; FOR HIS SEED REMAINS IN HIM: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

1 JOHN 5:4 For whatever is born of God overcomes the world: and this is the victory that overcomes the world, EVEN OUR FAITH [in the WORD OF GOD; the SEED must remain in us through FAITH].

PSALMS 119:11, YOUR WORD HAVE A HID IN MY HEART, THAT I MIGHT NOT SIN AGAINST YOU [in the WORD OF GOD; the SEED must remain in us through FAITH].

And this is the victory that overcomes the world, EVEN OUR FAITH in God’s WORD that is IN US.

JOHN 15:4-5,
[4] ABIDE IN ME AND I IN YOU [THE WORD OF GOD]. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, except it abide in the vine; no more can you, except you abide in me. [5] I am the vine, you are the branches: He that stays in me, and I in him, the same brings forth much fruit: for WITHOUT ME [THE WORD OF GOD] YOU CAN DO NOTHING. [6], If a man abides not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned. [7], IF YOU ABIDE IN ME [THE LIVING WORD OF GOD] AND MY WORDS ABIDE IN YOU abide in you, you shall ask what you will, and it shall be done to you. [8], Herein is my Father glorified, that you bear much fruit; so shall you be my disciples. [9], As the Father has loved me, so have I loved you: continue you in my love. [10], IF YOU KEEP MY COMMANDMENTS, you shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments and abide in his love.

NOTE: We cannot bear the fruit of obedience unless God’s WORD abides in us as we BELIEVE and follow him who calls us in love to love.

..............

CONCLUSION: WHAT IS THE EVERLASTING GOSPEL OF REVELATION 14:6?

The EVERLASTING Gospel is JESUS <Jesus means Savior; John 1:29> and JESUS is THE WORD OF GOD (John 1:1-14; 17:17; 14:6). THE WORD OF GOD is the GOSPEL BECAUSE BY FAITH IT IS OUR SAVIOR and this the IS GOOD NEWS to those who BELIEVE. (John 1:1-14; John 1:29; John 17:17; 14:6; Matthew 4:4) ALL OF GOD’S WORD IS THE EVERLASTING GOSPEL. It is the EVERLASTING GOSPEL because JESUS AND HIS WORD is EVERLASTING.

ALL THE WORD OF GOD IS THE EVERLASTING GOSPEL [GOOD NEWS].

God bless

Wow! Lot's of effort there. I respect that greatly, thank you. You didn't mention the verses below....
[Gal 1:6-7 NIV] 6 I am astonished that you are so quickly deserting the one who called you to live in the grace of Christ [and are turning to a different gospel]-- 7 [[which is really no gospel at all]]. Evidently some people are throwing you into confusion and are trying to pervert the gospel of Christ.

Thess · Nov 12, 2018

Alithis said:
{the three basic areas of response to the gospel repentance water baptism and receiving the holy spirit are thus the three MOST attacked and maligned and undermined by the adversary]

in fair response to your question of the man in the desert with no water .....
yes of course he can be saved -- Jesus is the saviour. HE saves us . salvation is a "way" not only an instant . the WAY is embarked on when a person first Believes and so repents (no one who sincerely believes will not repent because they will be very afraid of whats coming to them if they do not -people who say they believe but they don't obey the lord Jesus do not believe at all and/or are fully into rebellion .

Since repenting is turning to go GODS way a person will be led of God at soonest opportunity to be water baptised .God will never contradict himself AND he has said to do it this way for very very good reason and effect as he preforms a number of supernatural tasks through us obeying him in it .
and since God does not look on the outer appearance but upon the heart -he fully knows the intent of the heart ...

example -did Abraham actually obey God and slay Isaac ? no -yet god considered him to be fully obedient in faith . why ? because he knew the intent of Abraham's heart was to fully obey.
so god knows the person in the desert whose heart has truly repented to follow him WILL obey him in water baptism all things at soonest opportunity as soon as he learns of the directive to do so .
ie- here is water what hinders me from being baptised ... if in the desert where is water ? so the persons repentant heart will say .. where is water that i may be baptised . and should he die before that moment he will certainly be saved by the saving one whose name is Jesus . but if he does not die before doing so his love for God will cause him to whole heartedly obey as soon as he can .

during the Anabaptist murders by the catholics & lutherans a man was arrested for the church violation of having communion at home (yes they were wicked those churches ) . they asked him if he had been baptised(by immersion) and if they released him would he go and do so.. as that was a crime punishable by death by the church (talk about wolves in sheeps clothes ), the man KNOWING death faced him ..answered NO he had not been and that was a great regret as he longed to folow his lord in all things .
he was not released and later beheaded by the church .- this intent of the heart certainly saved him through baptism without the physical act carried out . just as the thief on the cross . we must not forget that the Lord Jesus said .. so that you may KNOW the son of man had power to forgive sin ..

so for the rest of us not facing imminent death ( though in truth we all are ) - repentance is away from rebellion and unto obedience -thus NO repentant person would ever question or refuse to obey our lord JESUS in water baptism .

-----

again i could and should write so much more as water baptism is so much more then people have been led to believe and the bible says so much about it as it is one of the foundations of the temple of god he builds for himself not built by mans hands .because the enemies religions have attacked this most basic obedience as the enemy knows the POWER of it .

repent - and because the person has -- BE baptised for the washing away (remittance ) of sin.... and you WILL (its god will that you do ) receive the Holy Spirit (to receive involves also your own will as no covenant is one sided but involves two parties always )

Masterfully conveyed! Great job! Really, I love the way you, and many others, have craftily put things together so that many different minds might understand. I appreciate you guys so much, for souls are being lost! Let's keep it up!!!

Thess · Nov 12, 2018

Alithis said:
its amazing how the apostles on the day of Pentecost did not set up such classes but 3000 were baptised that same day...(such classes are religious mens ways ) but i allow that the jews present understood baptism far more then the gentiles -but water baptism need not be fully understood at the time - but sin and repentance from it MUST be and belief in JESUS who saves must be understood simply and repentance is the acted desire to DO as JESUS says to do -to folow him
this following him is what few do even though they go to church or get baptised- because they lack repentance -they want to be saved AND keep thier sinning which they love to do . JESUS will say -I DO NOT KNOW YOU who work INIQUITY.

what is following Jesus ? we follow him in his obedience to the father ... baptism ... testings .. works ..sacrifices ..death and Resurrection.! still want to follow Jesus ? because if we are not wiling to follow him down the same road he took and eat of the same body and drink of the same cup -- then we cannot be his disciples .

so many are self deceived .

but to ask "who taught you baptism saves ...? the scripture does ... it actually says so . but as iv pointed out in another post ..it is mostly not well understood .

Like I have said to many others, and now you, what a great post! I really appreciate how you stated this position. One thing is clear, and it is that those who hold this position, there is a deeper sense of peace in each of your hearts. I believe it is because we are not confused by false doctrines that lead us into a bad way and not the good "Way". Great job!!!

Thess · Nov 12, 2018

salt-n-light said:
Point it out then.

Edited:

You know what don’t even bother I said my piece already, anything else Would be throwing away my pearls.Not being dragged in this fiasco today, lol! Y’all have fun.

Mmm....casting pearls to pigs. And you, too?

Not David · Nov 12, 2018

Can you stop mentioning Mark 1:8? John Baptism wasn't done in the "name of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit" (Matthew 28:19) and "for the remission of sins" (Acts 2:38)?

Alithis · Nov 12, 2018

to the OP - i might suggest a the request mods close thread option . as thus far it has held together well but as the ambiguous comes it may soon unravel haha .

i would like to bow out now with this

many say baptism is this verse based .
or that verse based
etc

i prefer to say it is absoluteness EVERYTHING the scriptures says from the flood to the red sea to the Resurrection and everything in between .
God Bless all who will be blessed through obedience to the lord Jesus

Thess · Nov 12, 2018

David Cabrera said:
Can you stop mentioning Mark 1:8? John Baptism wasn't done in the "name of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit" (Matthew 28:19) and "for the remission of sins" (Acts 2:38)?

I don't understand. Would you respect me if I allowed you to dominate me, determining what I write?

Acts 2:38 and Matthew 28:19 must pass through Mark 1:8 to be understood, not the other way around.

Not David · Nov 12, 2018

Thess said:
I don't understand. Would you respect me if I allowed you to dominate me, determining what I write?

Acts 2:38 and Matthew 28:19 must pass through Mark 1:8 to be understood, not the other way around.

No, John baptized in preparation for the Messiah.

Thess · Nov 12, 2018

David Cabrera said:
No, John baptized in preparation for the Messiah.

Okie doke.

LoveofTruth · Nov 12, 2018

PaulCyp1 said:
Baptism doesn't "save". It makes us eligible for salvation, but we are still free to refuse salvation.

1 Peter 3:21 and this is not talking about water baptism

StephenDiscipleofYHWH · Nov 12, 2018

Thess said:
Mark 1:8 does not agree with your statement. We are immersed into and united with the Holy Spirit....that is the baptism, the "new and more powerful" baptism. I guess it's very obvious to me and not others....I find that interesting and sad at the same time.

That is the baptism of the spirit, which again is only part of the baptism. We are also born again through baptism by water being baptized into death and buried with Christ.
Baptized into Christ's death and born again into everlasting life
Romans 6:3-11
John 3:2-7
Galatians 2:19-20
Colossians 2:10-15,19-23
1 John 5:5-8

Thess · Nov 12, 2018

LoveofTruth said:
1 Peter 3:21 and this is not talking about wTer baptism

It actually appears to be talking about water baptism, it really does. But Peter sure is in conflict with himself, seemingly, once again. This is what makes this debate so powerful, because if we really believe that we are saved via association with baptism, what happens if we're really not, as in the case with myself. The thought of it is horrifying. I don't want anyone to suffer because of this.

[Act 10:47-48 NLT] 47 "[Can anyone object] to their being baptized, [now that they have received the Holy Spirit] [[just as we did]]?" 48 [So he gave orders] for them to be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ. Afterward Cornelius asked him to stay with them for several days.

Thess · Nov 12, 2018

StephenDiscipleofYHWH said:
That is the baptism of the spirit, which again is only part of the baptism. We are also born again through baptism being baptized into death and buried with Christ.
Baptized into Christ's death and born again into everlasting life
Romans 6:3-11
John 3:2-7
Galatians 2:19-20
Colossians 2:10-15,19-23
1 John 5:5-8

I agree with you. God is God, Jesus is God and the Holy Spirit is God. This is why we are baptized into One God, the Father, Son and Holy Spirit. I'd hate to pick at straws, here.

If Water Baptism Saves, Then Explain What Happened To Me!

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