Your Thoughts on Creation & Evolution

xianghua said:

but it will never produce a complex system. if for instance we need at least 3 parts to evolve a new function random changes+ selection will not help in this case since there is nothing to select in that case.

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It's called "repurposing of traits".

You might need the 3 things for function X, but the individual things might have a function in something else by themselves. Or be neutral and piggy back on other traits.

Irreducible complexity has been refuted so hard so many times already, it's like beating a dead horse. I'm amazed people still bring it up.

xianghua said:

but it will never produce a complex system. if for instance we need at least 3 parts to evolve a new function random changes+ selection will not help in this case since there is nothing to select in that case.

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Evolution isn't a teleological process. It randomly modifies what already exists and keeps whatever allows survival & reproduction.

However, it can produce complexity by the addition of new features that are modifications of existing features. Mutations in the regulatory areas of the genome can produce duplications of existing features, for example, a body segment with its pair of legs, e.g. in an arthropod or insect, supplying duplicate features for evolution to act on. Sometimes such duplications retain the original functions, e.g. multiple leg segments of centipedes, millipedes; and sometimes they are modified by evolution, providing novel functions, e.g. grasping forelimbs.

Aman777 said: ↑
That's descent with modification within kinds

DogmaHunter said:

Which is evolution

Why? If it is evolution, it's fine to call it evolution.

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Because people rejected God's Truth in Genesis and were caught in the Snare which God set to catch them. Soon, the entire false ToE will be discredited since it eliminates God from His own Creation. The ToE also is incomplete since it cannot tell us of true Human origins, which took place on another world.

Scientists have also classified the sons of God (prehistoric people) as Humans. (descendants of Adam) Changing God's Truth of descent with modification within kinds into the filthy word "evolution" and force teaching it to innocent children in Public Schools will not go unpunished.

DogmaHunter said:

Every creationist seems to have its own personal definition.
Biologically, it has no specific meaning. It's not scientific jargon. It has no scientific implications or connotations.

Assuming an abstract definition, where "kind" can apply to any taxonomical context, the statement that "things reproduce after their kind", is correct.

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Amen. Humans (descendants of Adam) produce other Humans sexually. There is NO other magical process which changes prehistoric people, whose origin was with LUCA, in water, into Humans (descendants of Adam made from dust). God tells us that today's modern Humans INHERITED the superior intelligence of Adam which is like God's intelligence. Genesis 3:22

There are only two kinds. Trinity kinds are eternal kinds and His kinds are temporary kinds which are subject to death. Want to know WHY God made two kinds?

DogmaHunter said:

Every newborn is of the same species as its direct parents.
And the process of speciation is vertical, not horizontal. Which means that speciation always results in sub-species.

The common ancestor of house cats and lions, was a feline. Both are "still" felines.
The common ancestor of humans and chimps, was a primate. Both are "still" primates.
The common ancestor of primates and chimps, was a mammal. Both are "still" mammals.
Etc.

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Amen. Thanks for showing us WHY there is no magical evolution but simply sex mixing creatures together genetically, in a population over time. God's Truth is the Truth in every way. God bless you

Aman777 said:

Because people rejected God's Truth in Genesis and were caught in the Snare which God set to catch them.

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This is the science forum. I don't care what you believe your god said or didn't say.

Soon, the entire false ToE will be discredited since it eliminates God from His own Creation.

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yes, yes.... any day now!!

The ToE also is incomplete since it cannot tell us of true Human origins, which took place on another world.

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lol

and they came here in a space-submarine-ark. hahaha.

It's becoming a bad joke, you know.

Scientists have also classified the sons of God (prehistoric people) as Humans. (descendants of Adam) Changing God's Truth of descent with modification within kinds into the filthy word "evolution" and force teaching it to innocent children in Public Schools will not go unpunished.

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Haaaaaa, there are the threats.
The hallmark of how you know that the extremist feels cornered. When running out of arguments, just start with handing out threats instead.

Too bad the threat is on par with threatening that santa won't be bringing us gifts unless we act like nice little boys.

Amen.

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Not really. It does not at all agree with your beliefs.

Humans (descendants of Adam) produce other Humans sexually. There is NO other magical process which changes prehistoric people, whose origin was with LUCA, in water, into Humans (descendants of Adam made from dust). God tells us that today's modern Humans INHERITED the superior intelligence of Adam which is like God's intelligence. Genesis 3:22

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No, humans don't have extraterrestial DNA. There is nothing special about human DNA.
There're no space-people and there aren't any space-submarine-arks.

There are only two kinds. Trinity kinds are eternal kinds and His kinds are temporary kinds which are subject to death. Want to know WHY God made two kinds?

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Not really.
Do you want to know why Thetans are hiding in our bodies, like Tom Cruise believes?
He's an operating Thetan you know... he can bend space and time with his awesome cleansed mind.

Amen. Thanks for showing us WHY there is no magical evolution but simply sex mixing creatures together genetically, in a population over time. God's Truth is the Truth in every way. God bless you

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It seems your reading comprehension is massively failing you again.

DogmaHunter said:

lol

and they came here in a space-submarine-ark. hahaha.

It's becoming a bad joke, you know.

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See my last post to you, on another thread, which refutes your made up silliness.

DogmaHunter said:

Too bad the threat is on par with threatening that santa won't be bringing us gifts unless we act like nice little boys.

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It's not a threat but comes directly from Jesus and it's waiting for ANYone, especially those who offend little children with their evolutionist falsehoods. They come out of the pit thinking they will be okay only to receive the harshest punishment of all.

DogmaHunter said:

It seems your reading comprehension is massively failing you again.

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I should have known that IF you and I agreed and I thanked you for it, it would make your credibility nil to other evolutionists. They might think you have converted. Amen?

Aman777 said:

It's not a threat but comes directly from Jesus and it's waiting for ANYone, especially those who offend little children with their evolutionist falsehoods.

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I think indoctrinating little children in extremist religion is not only offencive, it's abusive.

They come out of the pit thinking they will be okay only to receive the harshest punishment of all.

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See, this is how it is abusive. It literally is a recipy for psychological trauma and emotional blackmail. It's a gigantic guilt trip and it is despicable.

I should have known that IF you and I agreed and I thanked you for it, it would make your credibility nil to other evolutionists. They might think you have converted. Amen?

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No, the reading comprehension of the people here who don't have problems with 21st century biology, seems to be just fine. I'm not worried about that.

DogmaHunter said:

It's called "repurposing of traits".

You might need the 3 things for function X, but the individual things might have a function in something else by themselves. Or be neutral and piggy back on other traits.

Irreducible complexity has been refuted so hard so many times already, it's like beating a dead horse. I'm amazed people still bring it up.

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What you mean to say is that all the possible genetic combinations already exist inside the genome and breeding and repeated backcrossing brings out one trait or another such as wolves to poodles.....

DogmaHunter said:

I think indoctrinating little children in extremist religion is not only offencive, it's abusive.

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Amen. Teaching them the false religion of evolutionism while dehumanizing them by making them repeat that they are nothing but evolved Apes, is reprehensible. These crimes of offending little ones lead to the most terrible end. But alas, as soon as i get you to agree with me, you get spooked and run away and hide from the debate. Why?

Aman777 said:

There are only two kinds. Trinity kinds are eternal kinds and His kinds are temporary kinds which are subject to death. Want to know WHY God made two kinds?

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Ignoring the fact that cattle (Genesis 1:25, Genesis 6:20 & Genesis 7:14) and fowl (Genesis 6:20) are not eternal, whose kind is "her kind"? Leviticus 11:19 & Deuteronomy 14:18 "And the stork, the heron after her kind, and the lapwing, and the bat."

Queue the usual handwaving and denial.

NBB said:

Look at computers and see if by adding random bits to something you improve it, add functionality, discard errors, and perfect it.

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You can actually do that.

There is an entire subset of computing known as evolutionary computing, which uses evolutionary algorithms to produce improvements.

Evolutionary computing can also be used to simulate evolutionary models and outcomes. It's a very useful tool.

Justatruthseeker said:

What you mean to say is that all the possible genetic combinations already exist inside the genome and breeding and repeated backcrossing brings out one trait or another such as wolves to poodles..

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Says no geneticist..... ever.

FrumiousBandersnatch said:

Evolution isn't a teleological process. It randomly modifies what already exists and keeps whatever allows survival & reproduction.

However, it can produce complexity by the addition of new features that are modifications of existing features. Mutations in the regulatory areas of the genome can produce duplications of existing features, for example, a body segment with its pair of legs, e.g. in an arthropod or insect, supplying duplicate features for evolution to act on. Sometimes such duplications retain the original functions, e.g. multiple leg segments of centipedes, millipedes; and sometimes they are modified by evolution, providing novel functions, e.g. grasping forelimbs.

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duplications will not help since they are only a duplication of existing parts. so its not a new complex system. think about this: can you mix several parts in a car to add it a gps sytem for instance?

Gene2memE said:

You can actually do that.

There is an entire subset of computing known as evolutionary computing, which uses evolutionary algorithms to produce improvements.

Evolutionary computing can also be used to simulate evolutionary models and outcomes. It's a very useful tool.

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But "an initial set of candidate solutions is generated and iteratively updated"
You don't have such a thing in the real thing, 'candidate solutions' Random changes needs to build from zero a lot of things, not choose already made solutions.

Bungle_Bear said:

Ignoring the fact that cattle (Genesis 1:25, Genesis 6:20 & Genesis 7:14) and fowl (Genesis 6:20) are not eternal, whose kind is "her kind"? Leviticus 11:19 & Deuteronomy 14:18 "And the stork, the heron after her kind, and the lapwing, and the bat."

Queue the usual handwaving and denial.

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Not so, since I use the KJV of Scripture because many (like yours) have been "altered" or changed so that they will agree with random religionist views. So go find you a KJV or you will continue to be led astray. God bless you

Aman777 said:

Not so, since I use the KJV of Scripture because many (like yours) have been "altered" or changed so that they will agree with random religionist views. So go find you a KJV or you will continue to be led astray. God bless you

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Lol. You chose an English translation which, by definition, has been "altered" to agree with a religionist view.

And notice how you have not answered my question. For someone who claims to have a solid, unassailable position why are you unable to defend it?

Bungle_Bear said:

Lol. You chose an English translation which, by definition, has been "altered" to agree with a religionist view.

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Says the Agnostic to the Christian. I use the KJV because it is the most read of any other version and I can see God getting His message out to the largest number of people with the KJV. It's the way He does things. It's your right to read any version you like, and remain an agnostic, until the very end. God is Love and doesn't force anyone to live forever with Him in paradise. It's your free choice.

Aman777 said:

Says the Agnostic to the Christian. I use the KJV because it is the most read of any other version and I can see God getting His message out to the largest number of people with the KJV. It's the way He does things. It's your right to read any version you like, and remain an agnostic, until the very end. God is Love and doesn't force anyone to live forever with Him in paradise. It's your free choice.

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What about the rest of my post? Are you just going to ignore that difficult question?

I have refuted your nonsense claim, whether you're prepared to admit it or not. This is your chance to show I am wrong.

Bungle_Bear said:

What about the rest of my post? Are you just going to ignore that difficult question?

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Of course not IF you change to the less altered KJV, which God has put in front of more eyes than any other. It doesn't say the same thing your "obviously altered" version says. I know because I often post a direct link to the KJV because just typing in the chapter and verse on this board does NOT do that.

Aman777 said:

Of course not IF you change to the less altered KJV, which God has put in front of more eyes than any other. It doesn't say the same thing your "obviously altered" version says. I know because I often post a direct link to the KJV because just typing in the chapter and verse on this board does NOT do that.

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And yet every time I give you a direct quote from the KJV you ignore it. How dishonest are you?

Bungle_Bear said:

Leviticus 11:19 & Deuteronomy 14:18 "And the stork, the heron after her kind, and the lapwing, and the bat."

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What is obvious is that a female heron is a her kind, since male herons are not her kinds. There is absolutely NOTHING about God the "her kind" as you posted earlier.

Bungle_Bear said:

Ignoring the fact that cattle (Genesis 1:25, Genesis 6:20 & Genesis 7:14) and fowl (Genesis 6:20) are not eternal, whose kind is "her kind"?

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Gen 1:25 And God made the beast of the earth after His (temporary) kind, and cattle after Their (eternal) kind, and every thing that creepeth upon the earth after His (temporary) kind: and God saw that it was good.(perfect)

Gen 6:20 Of fowls after Their (eternal) kind, and of cattle after Their (eternal) kind, of every creeping thing of the earth after His (temporary) kind, two of every sort shall come unto thee, to keep them alive.

Remember that God the Trinity made fowls and cattle after THEIR kind. Gen 1:25
Lord God/Jesus made the beasts and creeping things of this Earth but God the Trinity did NOT create them eternally. If He had, Heaven would be filled with varmits, mosquitoes and all sorts of other vermin. Thanks for pointing this out. It helps one learn the difference between temporary life on Earth and Eternity in Heaven. God bless you