Who were the Judaizers?

Jackson Cooper said:

{All posts within this faith community must adhere to the site wide rules. In addition, if you are not a member of this faith group, you may not debate issues or teach against it's theology. You may post in fellowship. Active promotion of views contrary to the established teachings of this group will be considered off topic.}

The Judaizers were not welcome by the Apostles into their church. Did they go extinct? Did they believe Jesus was the resurrected Messiah? If so then it sounds like they would be considered a 'Christian denomination' if they survived to modern day.

Makes me think of John 17:21. If the Apostles did not allow this other denomination into their church, there is no way the Judaizers and the Apostles could have been in the same church.

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I think they were a people like this....

When our religion takes a place about the God is claims to serve, then we will create decrees through which one must accept and adhere to in order to walk with God. On the other hand, the bible would seem to indicate that one can first develop a relationship with God and THEN learn of what He expects for those who belong to Him. The Judaizers were pushing rabbinic decrees as the path through which one might find God, rather than.... one finding God and then learning what is expected of them.

So an example would be to go to Acts 15:1-2 where we find Jews coming to Paul and Barnabas demanding that new converts/believers be circumcised or they can't be saved. So those men were pushing a rabbinic decree as the first step... and that is Judaizing. IMHO

I am a Messianic, part of a group that is often charged with being modern day “judaizers.”

While I do not speak for the group as a whole, (too many differing opinions)I would like to present one of the major takes on the topic within our movement. If that is OK with the OP and the group.

I await the approval of the OP.

Jackson Cooper said:

{All posts within this faith community must adhere to the site wide rules. In addition, if you are not a member of this faith group, you may not debate issues or teach against it's theology. You may post in fellowship. Active promotion of views contrary to the established teachings of this group will be considered off topic.}

The Judaizers were not welcome by the Apostles into their church. Did they go extinct? Did they believe Jesus was the resurrected Messiah? If so then it sounds like they would be considered a 'Christian denomination' if they survived to modern day.

Makes me think of John 17:21. If the Apostles did not allow this other denomination into their church, there is no way the Judaizers and the Apostles could have been in the same church.

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The judaizers were Christians who continued to practice parts of the Jewish law. They survived until well past the apostolic age. The apostles themselves likely would have considered them Christians. Their practices were eventually declared heretical and they disappeared over time.

judaizers were those who added to salvation through christ. they wanted christians to follow jewish hygiene pratices, especially males, in addition to believing in christ.

some still preach it today, it would seem. its not bad to have these practices, but to believe in them in addition to christ for salvation is damnation.

Jackson Cooper said:

The Apostles declared them heretics and outside of their church. They would've called them Christians still?

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When you say the apostles declared them heretics, or were there teachings refuted by the new testament letters?

Jackson Cooper said:

The Apostles declared them heretics and outside of their church. They would've called them Christians still?

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I could not imagine labeling someone a Christian who teaches salvation by "grace plus law, faith plus works." Subtle mixture of law and grace which is a perversion of the gospel (Galatians 1:6-9)

as a specific heresy they died out, but they laid the foundation for follow up heresies which come down to us to this day, sadly.

Jackson Cooper said:

I thought the Council of Jerusalem in Acts is when the Apostles said the Judaizers were wrong. Would they still call Judaizers 'Christian' despite them being a different church?

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The Jerusalem Council was held roughly 50 AD. That was after some twenty years of the spread of Christianity. Notice that the Council was held to resolve a dispute that was ongoing in the Church at the time. So at least some Churches had been taught to keep the Jewish law, likely by one of the Apostles. Even Paul himself could not answer the question, so travelled to Jerusalem to get an answer.

The letter sent to Antioch would have taken time of itself, but then it would have taken an untold number of years for that decision to reach all of the Churches. It was only after the Council that Paul began to write that the Jewish law was "bad", so to say.

From the crucifixion, it would have taken some thirty to forty years to address it with all of the Churches. So for some thirty years Judaizers would have been the norm for many Churches. And it continued on for hundreds of years in some places.

Notice also the point all of this brings out, that being that Jesus never changed the law. It was changed by the Church Council.

HTacianas said:

The judaizers were Christians who continued to practice parts of the Jewish law. They survived until well past the apostolic age. The apostles themselves likely would have considered them Christians. Their practices were eventually declared heretical and they disappeared over time.

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The Ethiopian Orthodox still practice some of these things...

Yeshua HaDerekh said:

The Ethiopian Orthodox still practice some of these things...

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Yes they do. A lot of their Jewish customs come more from being in such close proximity to Muslims for so many years.

The iconoclast controversy in the Church was for a goodly part caused by Muslim influence on some of the Eastern Churches.

I think the Judaizers were those who:

1. wanted all gentiles to fully convert to Judaism, before then converting to Christian Messianic Judaism
2. because they viewed gentiles capable of acknowledging Christ as being not gentiles, but the (lapsed) long lost tribes of Israel (scattered amongst the gentiles)

The Jerusalem Council (Acts 15) of 50 AD ruled against them, viewing gentiles as actually just gentiles, not long lost children of Jacob-Israel (and so under the Law of Moses given to Israel at Sinai circa 1250 BC), but rather solely children of Noah (and so only under the Laws of Noah in Genesis 7-9)

HTacianas said:

Yes they do. A lot of their Jewish customs come more from being in such close proximity to Muslims for so many years.

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Many are actually Jews so I disagree with the Muslim hypothesis. What about the sabbath, Muslims do not keep the Sabbath. There are many Ethiopian Jews.

Ken Rank said:

The Judaizers were pushing rabbinic decrees as the path through which one might find God, rather than.... one finding God and then learning what is expected of them.

So an example would be to go to Acts 15:1-2 where we find Jews coming to Paul and Barnabas demanding that new converts/believers be circumcised or they can't be saved. So those men were pushing a rabbinic decree as the first step... and that is Judaizing. IMHO

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Circumcision was not a Rabbinic decree. It was part of the Abrahamic Covenant. The problem was that some wanted/required gentiles to convert to Judaism before entering the New Covenant.

HTacianas said:

Notice also the point all of this brings out, that being that Jesus never changed the law. It was changed by the Church Council.

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?
What law was changed by the Jerusalem Council?

Yeshua HaDerekh said:

Circumcision was not a Rabbinic decree. It was part of the Abrahamic Covenant. The problem was that some wanted/required gentiles to convert to Judaism before entering the New Covenant.

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I understand that they required gentiles to "convert to Judaism" to be saved, basically because they viewed gentiles turning to Christ as "the lost tribes of Israel returning to the fold".

Thus, viewed as lapsed, back-slid Israelites from the Northern kingdom, scattered amongst the gentiles for 800 years, and now coming back to the Faith... so they were required to "get back with the program" and be circumcised etc. as repenting children of Jacob-Israel

According to the Judaizers, no real actual gentile gentiles could be saved... only national Israel, including the Jews, as well as "pseudo-gentiles" (my words) who they saw as actually being the long lost scattered other tribes of Israel.

According to the Jerusalem Council (Acts 15) gentiles turning to Christ really actually were just gentiles, children of Noah but NOT children of Jacob-Israel...

and so under the Noachide Laws of Noah and NOT under the Mosaic Laws given to Israel

Hank77 said:

?
What law was changed by the Jerusalem Council?

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The argument was that gentiles coming into the Church were to convert to Judaism, as Christianity was viewed as Judaism. The old testament law required proselytizes and "strangers" to be circumcised. The pro side argued rightfully that the law required circumcision. According to the law they were right. But the apostles more or less put it to a vote and the anti side won out. The Church set aside the requirement for circumcision.

Erik Nelson said:

I understand that they required gentiles to "convert to Judaism" to be saved, basically because they viewed gentiles turning to Christ as "the lost tribes of Israel returning to the fold".

Thus, viewed as lapsed, back-slid Israelites from the Northern kingdom, scattered amongst the gentiles for 800 years, and now coming back to the Faith... so they were required to "get back with the program" and be circumcised etc. as repenting children of Jacob-Israel

According to the Judaizers, no real actual gentile gentiles could be saved... only national Israel, including the Jews, as well as "pseudo-gentiles" (my words) who they saw as actually being the long lost scattered other tribes of Israel.

According to the Jerusalem Council (Acts 15) gentiles turning to Christ really actually were just gentiles, children of Noah but NOT children of Jacob-Israel...

and so under the Noachide Laws of Noah and NOT under the Mosaic Laws given to Israel

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No they did not consider them lost tribes. Judaism always had converts and converts had to do certain things (circumcision, mikveh, etc). In fact, there was a court of the gentiles in the Holy Temple.