'Devil's Advocate' for Amillenialism

DreamerOfTheHeart · Nov 10, 2018

Foreward: Using the colloquial term here, not to be too challenging, of 'considering criticially a viewpoint other then one's own. I lean heavily towards pre-millenialism, and the major reason I am opening discussions on the subject is to have my own beliefs tested. This includes testing my own, albeit limited confidence, in the very possibility of the amillenialist viewpoint.

At this juncture, I am very strongly a pre-millenialist, but I am open to the possibility that amillenialism has some merit. So, this is me arguing the devil's advocate view for amillenialism. Understand, I have answers to every point I make, below.

Regardless, I believe these are the strongest arguments I have ever heard for amillennialism all put together.

Definition of terms: everyone is pretty familiar with the definition of terms here, however, one problem with that is, 'you do not know how I view pre-millenialism'. Further, 'I do not know how you view amillenialism'. Though, the former is far more likely then the later, if you are an amillenialist.

Amillenialism typically means you believe the Millennium to be ongoing. To set aside baggage from 'preterist' and 'non-preterist' viewpoints, and baggage from 'pre-tribulational', 'mid-trib', 'post-trib' doctrines.

Devil's advocate for amillenialism:

- The Catholic Church, the Orthodox Church, the 'Holy Roman Empire', the 'Byzantine' or 'Eastern Roman Empire', and Protestant churches have all promoted and spread the Name of Jesus, and the message of God across the world.

- There have been many good saints and martyrs from all of these branches. All across the world. And, I believe, continue to be many good saints and martyrs. (Martyrdom is still happening, across the world.)

- There are many times, in Scriptural prophecy, where a single verse or a single chapter speaks both of something that happens shortly after the verse was given, and something that happens in the far future. So, there are times where one sees a split and a pause. Further, there are even verses where two different events - albeit always related events - happen far apart from one another, even if neither of them happen shortly after the prophecy of either event is given.

- Taking Revelation in chronological order does have problems due to the seeming impossibility of this happening. I believe the hardest possibility of this being possible of happening to be Revelation 12. Revelation 12 is problematic on many levels for strict chronology to be maintained, at least, without some sort of explanation.

You have there the birth of 'the one who will shatter the nations', you have that one's 'taken up to the Throne of God', you have the battle between Michael and his angels, and between Satan and his angels. The result of this battle is Satan being expelled from any access to Heaven and 'thrown to earth'.

Did not Jesus see 'Satan falls as lightning from Heaven to earth'? Did not Jesus say, on the eve of his murder by Satan, that 'now the prince of this world is driven out of the Kingdom'? Did not Satan fall in the Garden of Eden?

- Jesus brought the Kingdom of God, the very Kingdom of Heaven, with him, when he came the first time. Anyone who is given the Spirit of God, and born again, enters into that very Kingdom. That Kingdom has existed, unquestionably, since the time of the giving of the Spirit to the Twelve Apostles, shortly before the ascension of Jesus to Heaven. And, shortly after his death and resurrection from the dead.

- How can anyone say that Jesus has not already come, spiritually, and is not spiritually ruling through the saints, over this past two thousand years, as it is said he would do in Revelation 20:4? Have we not seen the entire Roman Empire becoming under the mantle of Jesus Christ through both the Orthodox and Catholic churches? Have we not seen the modern world come under, largely, the mantle of the Protestant, Orthodox, and Catholic churches? Further, the Millennium must still be continuing, as the last enemy is not yet destroyed.

- Are there three comings of the Lord Jesus, when Jesus only mentioned two comings? Are there, even, four comings of the Lord Jesus? Jesus coming in Revelation 11, at the Seventh Trumpet, Jesus coming in, what, Revelation 20:4, Jesus coming in Revelation 19, Jesus coming after the Millennium? That makes five. This makes no sense.

How could that possibly make sense? Who could make sense out of that?

- How, on earth, could the Seventh Trumpet sound - which is the last Trumpet, most agree, my own self included - over a thousand years before death, the last enemy, is finally destroyed?

- Augustine, and others, have argued that Pre-Millenialists invariably engage in such things as 'bacchanal feasts', believing Jesus will literally reign with the Lord Jesus Christ in the flesh. Therefore, if they believe this, they must be wrong, because the 'Kingdom is not of flesh and blood, but of peace, love, and joy in the Spirit'.

So, the Millennium can not happen in the future, in any near literal sense of the word stronger then it is happening today.

Where, amillenialists believe, they reign with Christ not physically, but spiritually.

- Many of the most vocal pre-millenialists believe they will be literally, physically lifted up into Heaven, 'leaving behind everyone else' at the ascension of the two witnesses, or shortly thereafter, at the blowing of the Seventh Trumpet, in Revelation 11. But, the Kingdom of Heaven comes to earth.

- After the Millennium, you see the City of God descend from Heaven to earth. After that, you see the City on earth, where Christ lives. How could any of that happen then, and yet, not during the Millennium? If it does happen during the Millennium, then there are parts of Revelation which are out of order, thereby destroying the strict, chronological order pre-millenialists demand.

- Is it not right for the 'Christian nations' to consider the kingdoms of Communism, Islam, and other totaliarian kingdoms invalid and at rebellion to the 'Christian nations'? Was it not justified to go to war against the Nazis and Communists? Even, justified by God, Christ, and Heaven?

- While anyone can point out the many flaws of colonialism and expansionism, was there really any other way to get to where we are now, in history? And who can say this is really bad, how we live and are in the Christian world, 'the first world'? Does God have some problem with the internet or television? Modern technology? What great sins could be there, that the Beast, False Prophet, and 'Babylon' are all present today? That today's world might be thoroughly corrupt? Are there not, now, billions of Christians -- by any token of standard?

- The 'beheading' and 'first resurrection' of Revelation 20, the one which documents the Millennium could all be metaphorical. After all, is not one who is beheaded as one who believes blindly and gives up their capacity for free, independent, critical thinking?

Could it not be argued that the 'first resurrection' is something that continually happens across the amillenialist Millenium? That anyone 'beheaded' by the Beast and False Prophet may come to Christ during this time period, be restored to right mind, and experience the 'first resurrection'?

ewq1938 · Nov 10, 2018

DreamerOfTheHeart said:
Could it not be argued that the 'first resurrection' is something that continually happens across the amillenialist Millenium?

The real first resurrection found in Rev 20 says it is a group of Christians who refused the mark of the beast in the great tribulation and they were beheaded for the testimony of Jesus and they resurrect from the dead before the thousand years even starts and there are no "first resurrections" that happen during the thousand years.

BTW, most Amil's I have talked to believe the first resurrection is Jesus resurrecting which also is not found in Rev 20.

Amil changes what the first resurrection actually is according to what's written in Rev 20.

HTacianas · Nov 10, 2018

ewq1938 said:
The real first resurrection found in Rev 20 says it is a group of Christians who refused the mark of the beast in the great tribulation and they were beheaded for the testimony of Jesus and they resurrect from the dead before the thousand years even starts and there are no "first resurrections" that happen during the thousand years.

BTW, most Amil's I have talked to believe the first resurrection is Jesus resurrecting which also is not found in Rev 20.

Amil changes what the first resurrection actually is according to what's written in Rev 20.

The "first resurrection" is baptism. We are baptized into Christ's death and resurrected with him. That the second death has no power over those of the first resurrection is to say that a Christian who perseveres will not be subject to the second death.

ewq1938 · Nov 10, 2018

HTacianas said:
The "first resurrection" is baptism.

Not the one found in Rev 20.

See what I mean Dreamer? This is what Amil does to what is written in Rev 20. This alone proves Pre-mil to be the correct theology because it does not redefine things to things not even in the text.

DreamerOfTheHeart · Nov 10, 2018

ewq1938 said:
The real first resurrection found in Rev 20 says it is a group of Christians who refused the mark of the beast in the great tribulation and they were beheaded for the testimony of Jesus and they resurrect from the dead before the thousand years even starts and there are no "first resurrections" that happen during the thousand years.

BTW, most Amil's I have talked to believe the first resurrection is Jesus resurrecting which also is not found in Rev 20.

Amil changes what the first resurrection actually is according to what's written in Rev 20.

'BTW, most Amil's I have talked to believe the first resurrection is Jesus resurrecting which also is not found in Rev 20.'

Weird.

Never got to that level of detail with any of them before on that, and do not recall coming across in my study of 'the City of God', nor in my study of the writings of the Catholic and Orthodox church.

(I could have missed it, of course.)

I can see 'why', as it is a very indefensible stance to take as it only throws even more doubt on 'Revelation 20' having already happened, or started to happen.

'Amil changes what the first resurrection actually is according to what's written in Rev 20.'

I strongly agree.

I can see why none of them have been open with me on their belief, that the 'first resurrection is Jesus' first resurrection' (if I am reading you correctly), though this explains why one poster argued that 'the Millennium started with the first ministry of Jesus and the original disciples of Jesus were initially wrong, but came along and believed later'. Very strong contortions there. I might add, my paraphrasing of what that poster was saying is far more clear then how he offered evidence.

Ironic how the very same poster said 'pre-millenialists believe in what is seen while amillenialists believe in what is unseen', when, quite the reverse is true. Is not the 'Holy Roman Empire', the Catholic Church, the Orthodox Church, the Eastern Roman Empire, Protestantism, all very seen?

Indeed, I can have sympathy for their unbelief, as it must be very difficult for them to put aside so very much of what they have seen in the flesh, to believe it is all but as 'castles made of sand'.

(The last quote is not a quote from Scripture, but Jimi Hendrix.)

(Hahahaha...

;-) )

LittleLambofJesus · Nov 10, 2018

DreamerOfTheHeart said:
. I lean heavily towards pre-millenialism, and the major reason I am opening discussions on the subject is to have my own beliefs tested. So, this is me arguing the devil's advocate view for amillenialism. Understand, I have answers to every point I make, below.

Regardless, I believe these are the strongest arguments I have ever heard for amillennialism all put together.

Could it not be argued that the 'first resurrection' is something that continually happens across the amillenialist Millenium? That anyone 'beheaded' by the Beast and False Prophet may come to Christ during this time period, be restored to right mind, and experience the 'first resurrection'?

Now this should turn out to be a very very interesting thread and glad your the one playing devil's advocate for Amill.
I think the Amill doctrine is about as bad, if not worst, than the doctrine of Dispensationalism, of which both of those doctrines have been in a constant state of "wrangling" for decades or perhaps centuries [as seen on this board].
It is no wonder that Preterism has been gaining in popularity for hundreds of years.

So consider me a Pre-Mill Idealist Preterist.....[I may start a new movement for that ehehe] AMEN.

Let me put in a plug for a thread of mine [should be useful for Premills and Preterists me thinks].

Is the GREAT CITY in Revelation symbolizing the LAKE OF FIRE?
Lake of Fire/Gehenna/Great City

That aside, everyone here knows by now, I love using the Greek when studying a verse or word.
I use a good concordance mainly to look up phrases of at least 2 words, using quotation marks. I am particularly fond of this one:

Strong's Concordance with Hebrew and Greek Lexicon

For example, I keyed in "day of god" from 2 Peter 3 and only 2 verses came up:
[you can key "day of the lord" "day of wrath" etc........]

Genesis 1:1 (NKJV)

2 Peter 3:12 -
waiting for and hasting to the parousian <3952> of the day of God,
by which the heavens, being on fire, shall be dissolved, and the elements with burning heat shall melt;

Lookie here......the Day of God Almighty

Revelation 16:14
For they are spirits of demons, performing signs, which go out to the kings of the earth and[fn] of the whole being-homed, to gather them to the battle of that great day of God Almighty.

Then I look up "day of Almighty" [and so on and so forth].
Listed only in 2 verses of the OT.
NKJV)
Isaiah 13:6
Wail, for the day of the LORD is at hand!
It will come as destruction from the Almighty.

Joel 1:15
Alas for the day!
For the day of the LORD is at hand;
It shall come as destruction from the Almighty.

Notice Matthew 24 uses "full-end of the age". [look up #4930]

Matthew 24:3 -
And when he is sitting on the mount of the Olives, the disciples came near to him by himself, saying, 'Tell us, when shall these be? and what is the sign of Thy parousiaV <3952>, and of the full-end/consummation<4930>συντέλεια (syn-teleia) of the age
[<4930> Hebrews 9:26]

Remembering this was written BEFORE 70ad in the 1st century Jerusalem/Temple discourse:

Matthew 24:6
“And you will hear of wars and rumors of wars. See that you are not troubled;
for is binding these to be becoming<1096>
but the end<5056> is not yet.
Mark 13:7
“But when you hear of wars and rumors of wars, do not be troubled;
For is bindings these to be becoming<1096>
but the end<5056> is not yet.
Luke 21:9
“But when you hear of wars and commotions, do not be terrified; for is binding these to be becoming<1096>,
but the end<5056> is not immediately.”

Revelation uses both of those words concerning the end.
Once at the pouring out of the 7th bowl of wrath [which I view as upon Jerusalem/Judea 70ad]:

Revelation 16:17
Then the seventh Messenger poured out his bowl into the air,
and a loud Voice came out of the Sanctuary of heaven, from the throne, saying, “It has become<1096>!”

This verse showing Who that Voice is coming from out of the Sanctuary in 16:17 ..........the great and mighty "I AM"!

Revelation 21:
5 Then He who sat on the throne said, “Behold! I make all things new.”
And He said to me,[fn] “Write, for these words are true and faithful
6 And He said to me, “It is finished!<5056>[fn]
I AM the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the End<5056>.
I will give of the fountain of the water of life freely to him who thirsts.

Similar to what Jesus said on the Cross before He "died"

John 19:30
So when Jesus had received the sour wine, He said, “It is finished<5055>!” And bowing His head, He gave up His spirit.

I have yet to read thru this whole commentary by Josephus:

The Destruction of Jerusalem - George Peter Holford, 1805AD
The Destruction Of JERUSALEM
An Absolute and Irresistible PROOF OF THE DIVINE ORIGIN OF CHRISTIANITY:

"I consider the Prophecy relative to the destruction of the Jewish nation,
if there were nothing else to support Christianity, as absolutely irresistible."
(Mr. Erskine's Speech, at the Trial of Williams, for publishing Paine's Age of Reason)
...............................................PREFACE

History records few events more generally interesting than the destruction of Jerusalem, and the subversion of the Jewish state, by the arms of the Romans. --
Their intimate connexion with the dissolution of the Levitical economy, and the establishment of Christianity in the world ;
the striking verification which they afford of so many of the prophecies, both of the Old and New Testament, and the powerful arguments of the divine authority of the Scriptures which are thence derived ;
the solemn warnings and admonitions which they hold out to all nations, but especially such as are favoured with the light and blessings of REVELATION ;

Of the prophecies which have already been fulfilled, few, perhaps, are so interesting in themselves, or so striking in their accomplishment, as those which relate to the destruction of Jerusalem and its Temple, and the signal calamities which every where befel the Jewish nation.

The chief of our Lord's predictions, relative to these events, are contained in Matthew 24 ch. Mark 13 ch., Luke 21 ch., Ib. 19 ch. 41-44 ; Ib. 23 ch. 27-30 : and we may with confidence appeal to the facts which verify them as conclusive and incontrovertible proofs of the divinity of his mission.

Before, however, we enter upon this illustration, it may be gratifying to the reader, and add considerably to the interest of many of the subsequent pages, to give in this place a brief description of that renowned city and its temple......................

.

Lost4words · Nov 10, 2018

Revelation is all what was going to happen around 70AD. Simples

ewq1938 · Nov 10, 2018

DreamerOfTheHeart said:
'BTW, most Amil's I have talked to believe the first resurrection is Jesus resurrecting which also is not found in Rev 20.'

Weird.

Never got to that level of detail with any of them before on that, and do not recall coming across in my study of 'the City of God', nor in my study of the writings of the Catholic and Orthodox church.

A different but related version is the first resurrection is these people being born again yet we read they were beheaded because of their witness of Jesus, and for the word of God which means they were already born again long before dying and then being resurrected in the first resurrection so that also fails when compared to the literal text. This is pretty much how most of Amil beliefs end up...alterated from what the text says.

You had a long list of things but I decided to pick the last one and show how badly incorrect it is.

ItIsFinished! · Nov 10, 2018

Lost4words said:
Revelation is all what was going to happen around 70AD. Simples

Nope. Not at all.

ewq1938 · Nov 10, 2018

ItIsFinished! said:
Nope. Not at all.

Correct. None of it is about Ad 70. Revelation and the trib are Satan's wrath against Christians, not Jews.

Revelation:

Rev 12:17 And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.

Christians are Satan's target!

Rev 13:7 And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations.

The saints are Christians not Jews. The tribulation is war on Christianity.

Rev 20:4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

The witness of Jesus means they are Christians.

The olivet discourse:

Mat 24:4 And Jesus answered and said unto them, Take heed that no man deceive you.
Mat 24:5 For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many.

False Christ's are warned about.

Mat 24:9 Then shall they deliver you up to be afflicted, and shall kill you: and ye shall be hated of all nations for my name's sake.

These are Christians being delivered up not Jews. Hated because of Christ's name! This proves that Christ is talking about Christians when he says "you".

Mat 24:14 And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.

The gospel of the kingdom is about Christ and is delivered by Christians.

Mat 24:15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand

"Ye" are Christians.
So, the AoD is going to affect "all the world" and Christians are the targets! Christians are persecuted and murdered for the testimony of Christ and because they carry his name.

Mat 24:20 But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day:

"Ye" is still the same people, Christians.

Mat 24:21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.
Mat 24:22 And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.

The elect are Christians not Jews per the context of this passage.

Mat 24:23 Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not.

Again, a warning about false Christs given to "you" which are Christians.

Mat 24:24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.

Another reference to false Christ's and the Christian elect.

Mat 24:25 Behold, I have told you before.
Mat 24:26 Wherefore if they shall say unto you, Behold, he is in the desert; go not forth: behold, he is in the secret chambers; believe it not.

You=Christians and yet again another false Christ reference. There is a false Christ coming to deceive Christians and those not deceived will be delivered up, persecuted and killed.

Nothing about Jews at all because Jews are not the target of the Antichrist and tribulation.

Mat 24:27 For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
Mat 24:28 For wheresoever the carcase is, there will the eagles be gathered together.
Mat 24:29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
Mat 24:30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
Mat 24:31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

And here is the second coming. Again, nothing about Jews at all because Jews are not the target of the Antichrist and tribulation.

DreamerOfTheHeart · Nov 10, 2018

LittleLambofJesus said:
Now this should turn out to be a very very interesting thread and glad your the one playing devil's advocate for Amill.
I think the Amill doctrine is about as bad, if not worst, than the doctrine of Dispensationalism, of which both of those doctrines have been in a constant state of "wrangling" for decades or perhaps centuries [as seen on this board].
It is no wonder that Preterism has been gaining in popularity for hundreds of years.

So consider me a Pre-Mill Idealist Preterist.....[I may start a new movement for that ehehe] AMEN.

Let me put in a plug for a thread of mine [should be useful for Premills and Preterists me thinks].

Is the GREAT CITY in Revelation symbolizing the LAKE OF FIRE?
Lake of Fire/Gehenna/Great City

Hahahaha...

*big grin*

I am definitely a 'pre-mill preterist', wouldn't go so far as to say I am an 'idealist', though... hehehe...

I believe some things are past, already. I do not view the events as being merely spread across 7 years, as some do. I do not have all of the blanks filled in. But, I do believe I have a few very big ones filled in, though.

I have opened your recommended thread to examine, but on the City coming down from Heaven, that is one thing in Revelation which I do believe *may* happen before it is shown to happen. This is not out of the question, as it happens after all of the many very chronological steps are finished with, specifically, the seven seals (which I believe Jesus opens in Heaven), the seven trumpets, the three woes, and the seven vials.

ItIsFinished! · Nov 10, 2018

Lost4words said:
Revelation is all what was going to happen around 70AD. Simples

You apparently do not realize that the Book of Revelation was written around 90 to 95 AD.
REVELATION, not that which has already come to pass.

DreamerOfTheHeart · Nov 10, 2018

ewq1938 said:
A different but related version is the first resurrection is these people being born again yet we read they were beheaded because of their witness of Jesus, and for the word of God which means they were already born again long before dying and then being resurrected in the first resurrection so that also fails when compared to the literal text. This is pretty much how most of Amil beliefs end up...alterated from what the text says.

You had a long list of things but I decided to pick the last one and show how badly incorrect it is.

I 'saved the worst for last', in the 'Devil's advocate thread for amil', if that is what you mean...

Hehehehe...

I do consider weird possibilities on the first resurrection, but remain unsure on these possibilities. (I have had a very weird life, so far, so the very weird, or alien, is my normal.) Specifically, I think there is a possibility that 'those who have fallen asleep' might resurrect on earth and remain in a sort of sleep state, until the first resurrection, after 'Babylon' falls, before 'the Beast' and 'the False Prophet' are 'thrown into the 'Lake of Fire'.

Very different from the amil take on it you just expressed, but not super far off, so I can not so deeply condemn their view there, as I do more deeply condemn some of their other views.

Do not like presenting 'not entirely sure' possibilities which could challenge your view of my credibility drastically, but I would like to see this one tested, at the same time.

Lost4words · Nov 10, 2018

ItIsFinished! said:
You apparently do not realize that the Book of Revelation was written around 90 to 95 AD.
REVELATION, not that which has already come to pass.

I disagree. Many scholars believe it was written well before 70AD

ItIsFinished! · Nov 10, 2018

Lost4words said:
I disagree. Many scholars believe it was written well before 70AD

Of course they do.
Who are these many scholars that you speak of?

Lost4words · Nov 10, 2018

ItIsFinished! said:
Of course they do.
Who are these many scholars that you speak of?

Look them up

ewq1938 · Nov 10, 2018

Lost4words said:
I disagree. Many scholars believe it was written well before 70AD

Except it doesn't speak about the temple being destroyed which would seem pretty important if it was written just prior to Ad70 plus how many Jews would have even been able to read Rev in Ad70? Why would they read a Christian letter sent to Christian churches anyways?

It doesn't make any sense that Rev has anything to do with what the Jews faced in Ad70. It only makes sense that it speaks of a future time and things that happen just prior to the second coming and what happens after.

ItIsFinished! · Nov 10, 2018

Lost4words said:
Look them up

Exactly the response I expected.
Next!

LittleLambofJesus · Nov 10, 2018

ItIsFinished! said:
You apparently do not realize that the Book of Revelation was written around 90 to 95 AD.
REVELATION, not that which has already come to pass.

Is that it? Is that your main argument?
Threads on CF "when was Revelation written":
https://www.google.com/search?q=whe...jsveAhUBc60KHVWABZYQ8NMDCJsB&biw=1366&bih=604

Sad to say, but Futurists, Amills and Dispensationalists are missing the forest for the trees............but that is their loss........

Strong's Concordance with Hebrew and Greek Lexicon

#602 used 1 time in Gospels:

G602 matches the Greek ἀποκάλυψις (apokalypsis), occurs 18 times in 18 verses

Used 1 time in the Gospels:

Luke 2:32
A light of revelation<602> of nations,
And the glory of Your people Israel.”

Revelation 1:1
An un-covering/veiling<602> of Jesus Christ, which gives to Him, the GOD, to show to the bond-servants of Him,
which-things is binding to be becoming in/en <1722> swiftness/tacei <5034>. [repeated in Revelation 22:6]

Strong's Number G5034 matches the Greek τάχος (tachos),
which occurs 7 times in 7 verses

1 time in the Epistles

Romans 16:20
And the God of peace will crush the Satan under your feet in swiftness/tacei <5034>.
The grace of our Lord Jesus Christ be with you. Amen.

"satan feet" used in 1 other verse:

Revelation 3:9
“Indeed I will make those of the synagogue of Satan, who say they are Jews and are not, but lie—
indeed I will make them come and worship before your feet, and to know that I have loved you.

"feet synagogue":

Luke 8:41
And behold, there came a man named Jairus, and he was a ruler of the synagogue.
And he fell down at Jesus’ feet and begged Him to come to his house,

"Synagogues" in the pre 70ad Jerusalem/Temple discourse:

Matthew 24, Mark 13 and Luke's Temple/Jerusalem Discourses harmonized
Post #10 deliver up to prisons, scourge in synagoges

LittleLambofJesus said:
Matthew 10:
16 ‘Behold!, I do send you forth as sheep in the midst of wolves, be ye therefore wise as the serpents, and simple as the doves. 17 And, take ye heed of men, for they will give you up to sanhedrins, and in their synagogues they will scourge you,

Matthew 23:34
‘Because of this behold! I send to you prophets and wise men and scribes
And of them ye shall be killing and crucifying,
and of them ye will scourge<3146> in your synagogues<4864>,
and will pursue from city to city;

Mark 13:9
‘And take ye heed to yourselves,
for they shall deliver you up to sanhedrins<4892>, and to synagogues,
ye shall be beaten<1194>,

Luke 21:12
and before all these,
they shall lay on you their hands, and persecute<1377>,
delivering<3860> up to synagogues and prisons<5438>,

Luke 22:66
And when it became day there was gathered together the elders of the people, chief priests also, and scribes,
and they led Him up to their own sanhedrin,

.

ItIsFinished! · Nov 10, 2018

LittleLambofJesus said:
Is that it? Is that your main argument?
Threads on CF when was Revelation written:
https://www.google.com/search?q=whe...jsveAhUBc60KHVWABZYQ8NMDCJsB&biw=1366&bih=604

Sad to say, but Futurists, Amills and Dispensationalists are missing the forest for the trees............but that is their loss........

Strong's Concordance with Hebrew and Greek Lexicon

#602 used 1 time in Gospels:

G602 matches the Greek ἀποκάλυψις (apokalypsis), occurs 18 times in 18 verses

Used 1 time in the Gospels:

Luke 2:32
A light of revelation<602> of nations,
And the glory of Your people Israel.”

Revelation 1:1
An un-covering/veiling<602> of Jesus Christ, which gives to Him, the GOD, to show to the bond-servants of Him,
which-things is binding to be becoming in/en <1722> swiftness/tacei <5034>. [repeated in Revelation 22:6]

Strong's Number G5034 matches the Greek τάχος (tachos),
which occurs 7 times in 7 verses

1 time in the Epistles

Romans 16:20
And the God of peace will crush the Satan under your feet in swiftness/tacei <5034>.
The grace of our Lord Jesus Christ be with you. Amen.

"satan feet" used in 1 other verse:

Revelation 3:9
“Indeed I will make those of the synagogue of Satan, who say they are Jews and are not, but lie—
indeed I will make them come and worship before your feet, and to know that I have loved you.

"feet synagogue":

Luke 8:41
And behold, there came a man named Jairus, and he was a ruler of the synagogue.
And he fell down at Jesus’ feet and begged Him to come to his house,

Synagogues in the pre 70ad Jerusalem/Temple discourse:

Matthew 24, Mark 13 and Luke's Temple/Jerusalem Discourses harmonized
Post #10 deliver up to prisons, scourge in synagoges

.

No argument whatsoever.
Muchless a "main" one.
What are you talking about?

'Devil's Advocate' for Amillenialism

I Am What I Am

I love you three.

Well-Known Member

I love you three.

I Am What I Am

Hebrews 2:14.... Pesky Devil, git!

Jesus I Trust In You

I love you three.

Jesus Christ is our only hope.

I love you three.

I Am What I Am

Jesus Christ is our only hope.

I Am What I Am

Jesus I Trust In You

Jesus Christ is our only hope.

Jesus I Trust In You

I love you three.

Jesus Christ is our only hope.

Hebrews 2:14.... Pesky Devil, git!

Jesus Christ is our only hope.

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