Is the Rapture Deception?

DM25 said:

I believe we will all go through the tribulation period, but God's chosen people will be protected. That's why God warns his people to flee into the mountains away from the cities when we see the signs. We will be protected during the tribulation and the reign of the anti-christ. But nobody will be swooped away in the sky. Until someone has solid scripture to prove pre-tribulation rapture I will remain believing this.

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Israel shall be protected by God during that time, as petra will be where many of the jews to be saved out will be heading for protection!

Devin P said:

All throughout the prophets, we have them warning God's children to hide and keep themselves shut up until the trouble passes.

Isa 26:20 Come, my people, enter thou into thy chambers, and shut thy doors about thee: hide thyself as it were for a little moment, until the indignation be overpast.
Isa 26:21 For, behold, the LORD cometh out of his place to punish the inhabitants of the earth for their iniquity: the earth also shall disclose her blood, and shall no more cover her slain.

Isa 24:1 Behold, the LORD maketh the earth empty, and maketh it waste, and turneth it upside down, and scattereth abroad the inhabitants thereof.
Isa 24:2 And it shall be, as with the people, so with the priest; as with the servant, so with his master; as with the maid, so with her mistress; as with the buyer, so with the seller; as with the lender, so with the borrower; as with the taker of usury, so with the giver of usury to him.
Isa 24:3 The land shall be utterly emptied, and utterly spoiled: for the LORD hath spoken this word.
Isa 24:4 The earth mourneth and fadeth away, the world languisheth and fadeth away, the haughty people of the earth do languish.
Isa 24:5 The earth also is defiled under the inhabitants thereof; because they have transgressed the laws, changed the ordinance, broken the everlasting covenant.
Isa 24:6 Therefore hath the curse devoured the earth, and they that dwell therein are desolate: therefore the inhabitants of the earth are burned, and few men left.
Isa 24:13 When thus it shall be in the midst of the land among the people, there shall be as the shaking of an olive tree, and as the gleaning grapes when the vintage is
done.

(Basically it's saying that the world will have few people left in it, because of the great destruction God will cause to be upon the earth in the last days, because of their transgressions. Really read this entire chapter, because all of it applies to what I'm talking about, I just didn't want to link an entire chapter in here)

I feel that the idea of the rapture, is a deception given to us by the enemy, because when the world is destroyed due to our transgressions and unholiness, those believing in and waiting on the rapture will not know what's going on. They would've been expecting to be taken out before these things happen, and then their faith will fail them, because they weren't prepared to have to go through this time of trouble. We even have the words of our Savior describing that time. His children are wheat, and the devil's children are tares.

Mat 13:30 Let both grow together until the harvest: and in the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, Gather ye together FIRST the tares, and bind them in bundles to burn them: but gather the wheat into my barn.

Mat 13:40 Just as weeds are gathered and burned with fire, so it will be at end of the age.
Mat 13:41 The Son of Man will send his angels, and they will gather from his kingdom everything that causes others to sin and those who practice lawlessness
Mat 13:42 and they will throw them into a blazing furnace. In that place there will be wailing and gnashing of teeth.
Mat 13:43 THEN the righteous will shine like the sun in their Father's kingdom. Let the person who has ears listen!”

Mat 13:49 That is how it will be at the end of the age. The angels will go out, cull out the evil people FROM AMONG the righteous ones,
Mat 13:50 and will throw them into a blazing furnace. In that place there will be wailing and gnashing of teeth."

Here we see Jesus saying that His chosen, will still be on earth. That the unrighteous will be taken from among them. So we see that, for example, the verse where two will be in a field, one taken the other left, you want to be the one that is left. You don't want to be taken, because to be taken, means you're not a wheat. Because as Matt 13:30 says, tares will be taken first, not wheat.

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Personally, I believe in the rapture because of 1 Thessalonians 4:13-18.

Understanding that the timing of it may not be pre-trib can help with the problem.

But I agree: many people will very likely be taken by surprise when it all begins to unfold before their eyes. See Ecclesiastes 9:12.

One thing that confuses me about pre-trib is that it's teaching two second comings (which would be three comings) but we know there is only one second coming. I believe we will all see Jesus come down from the sky with his white horse and it will be a big event. I think scripture says we will be protected more than we will escape.

DM25 said:

One thing that confuses me about pre-trib is that it's teaching two second comings (which would be three comings) but we know there is only one second coming. I believe we will all see Jesus come down from the sky with his white horse and it will be a big event. I think scripture says we will be protected more than we will escape.

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It will be a time of Great Tribulation for all. For the Antichrist will be attempting to force the mark on everyone. Those who refuse will either starve to death or be beheaded. It will be a time of temptation for all who dwell on the earth. So we must keep the word of His patience (Luke 21:19) now (Revelation 3:10).

Revelation 3:10 indicates to me a pre-tribulation rapture for those who will keep the word of Christ's patience in Luke 21:19. In this world we will have tribulation: but the great tribulation is very likely God's wrath on a Christ-rejecting world.

@ewq1938,

I have to say that I didn't read your whole post; it was too long.

I will say that judgment begins with the house of God and so the first half of the Great Tribulation is indeed satan's wrath against the saints who will be left behind for whatever reason and those who will be converted by them (and also the Lord's refining fire on their lives to make them white). The last half, however, I refer to the bowl judgments, is God's wrath on those who took the mark and worshiped the image of the beast.

I place the rapture as either pre- or mid- trib, in my view it could be either/or/or and.

justbyfaith said:

Revelation 3:10 indicates to me a pre-tribulation rapture for those who will keep the word of Christ's patience in Luke 21:19. In this world we will have tribulation: but the great tribulation is very likely God's wrath on a Christ-rejecting world.

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But isn't it possible that can refer to simply being protected while we are still on earth? God separating his flock and making sure they don't suffer the wrath? Revelation really confuses me. It's like a huge puzzle and mystery. Does scripture actually specifically say anywhere we won't be in the world during the tribulation or during the wrath? I think there was a verse about meeting Jesus in the sky. Could this be before the wrath is poured out? It's all so confusing...

I think that it says in the immediate context of the rapture passage (in the next chapter) that God has not appointed us to wrath.

ewq1938 said:

1 Corinthians 10:13 There hath no temptation taken you but such as is common to man: but God is faithful, who will not suffer you to be tempted above that ye are able; but will with the temptation also make a way to escape, that ye may be able to bear it.

The escape is being able to BEAR IT not bodily leave the Earth.

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You have taken that verse out of context.

DM25 said in post #194:

I believe we will all go through the tribulation period, but God's chosen people will be protected.

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That's right, but not necessarily physically protected (Luke 21:16).

That is, while at the future time of Revelation 7:2-4, only the 144,000 male-virgins part of the Church (Revelation 14:1,4) will be sealed for physical protection, all obedient people in the Church will still be spiritually protected during the future Tribulation of Revelation chapters 6 to 18 and Matthew 24, no matter what happens to them physically (Romans 8:35-37). Also, before Revelation 7:2-4 happens, the 144,000, along with some others, will be physically protected so that they will survive the Tribulation's first stage in Revelation 6, while others will die, and their souls will enter heaven (Revelation 7:9,14). It is near the end of this first stage that the 144,000 will be sealed (Revelation 7:3-4) for physical protection before the unsealing of the seventh seal (Revelation 8:1), out of which will come the Tribulation's seven trumpets (Revelation 8:1-2). The first six trumpets' events, up to Revelation 9:19, will be the Tribulation's second stage. The seal which the 144,000 will receive (which will be different from and in addition to the seal of God's Holy Spirit which they and all others in the Church of all times receive: Ephesians 1:13) will physically protect them during this second stage (Revelation 9:4).

After this second stage, the 144,000 male-virgins part of the Church will be caught up in their mortal bodies as the "man child" to God's throne in heaven (Revelation 12:5, Revelation 14:4-5, Textus Receptus), like how Enoch and Elijah were caught up in their mortal bodies to heaven (Hebrews 11:5; 2 Kings 2:11). Right after the 144,000 are caught up, the Tribulation's third stage, the literal 3.5-year worldwide reign of the future Antichrist (the individual-man aspect of Revelation's "beast") will begin (Revelation 12:5-6). This time period is shown from four different angles in Revelation chapters 11 to 14 (Revelation 11:2b-3, Revelation 12:6,14, Revelation 13:5-18, Revelation 14:9-13).

The 144,000 will remain in heaven before God's throne (Revelation 14:5, Textus Receptus) during the time of the future Antichrist's reign (Revelation 14:9-13, Revelation 13:5-18), while two other parts of the Church will still be on the earth: the figurative "woman" who represents those in the Church who will flee into prepared wilderness places and be physically protected by God (Revelation 12:6,14-16); and the remnant of her seed (Revelation 12:17), those in the Church who will remain in the cities and not be physically protected, but will be persecuted in every nation, imprisoned, and beheaded by the Antichrist (Revelation 13:7-10, Revelation 14:12-13, Revelation 20:4-6, Matthew 24:9-13).

After the future Antichrist's reign is declared legally over at the sounding of the seventh trumpet (Revelation 11:15), the seven plagues of the seven vials of God's wrath will come out of the seventh trumpet's heavenly-temple opening (Revelation 11:19, Revelation 15:5 to 16:1). These seven vials (Revelation 16) will be the Tribulation's fourth and final stage. Because the Church is not appointed to God's wrath (1 Thessalonians 5:9), none of these vials will be directed at those in the Church who will still be alive on the earth at that time, still waiting for Jesus Christ's Second Coming as a thief (Revelation 16:15). Instead, they will go into protective chambers which they will have built for themselves on the earth (Isaiah 26:20), just as Noah and his family went into the protective ark which they had built for themselves on the earth (Genesis 7:7). So some in the Church will survive the entire future Tribulation on the earth. They are those who will still be "alive and remain" at Jesus' Second Coming to be raptured (1 Thessalonians 4:15-17), immediately after the Tribulation (Matthew 24:29-31; 2 Thessalonians 2:1-8). These survivors will have experienced God's miraculous physical protection (Psalms 91) without having to have been part of the 144,000.

DM25 said in post #194:

. . . God warns his people to flee into the mountains away from the cities when we see the signs.

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That's right, but it's when they see one sign in particular (Matthew 24:15-16).

Also, regarding "Judaea" in Matthew 24:16, this does not have to mean (as is sometimes clamed) first century AD Judaea, for there are many churches in Judaea (southern Israel) still today. They contain mostly Gentile Christians, not just Jewish Christians. The Church began and has always been in Judaea: "Then had the churches rest throughout all Judaea" (Acts 9:31); "the churches of Judaea" (Galatians 1:22); "the churches... in Judaea" (1 Thessalonians 2:14). Matthew 24:16 refers to those in the Church, whether Gentiles or Jews, who will be living in Judaea at the future point in time when the abomination of desolation (possibly a standing, android image of the future Antichrist) is set up in the holy place (the inner sanctum) of a future, third Jewish temple in Jerusalem (Matthew 24:15, Daniel 11:31).

The future Antichrist's persecution of the Church could begin in Jerusalem and Judaea right after the abomination of desolation is set up and the Antichrist sits in the future temple (at least one time) and proclaims himself God (2 Thessalonians 2:4, Daniel 11:36). So to avoid this persecution (cf. Matthew 10:23a), those in the Church living in Judaea should flee immediately after they see the abomination of desolation set up (Matthew 24:15-16), which event could occur at the midpoint of the future Tribulation of Revelation chapters 6 to 18 and Matthew 24, and which event could mark the start of the Antichrist's literal 3.5-year worldwide reign (Revelation 13:4-18). Eventually, the Antichrist's persecution of the Church (not in hiding) will reach every nation (Revelation 13:7-10, Revelation 14:12-13, Revelation 20:4-6, Matthew 24:9-13). So the basic principle of Matthew 24:16 of fleeing (the Antichrist's persecution) would apply to Christians around the world.

Just as the woman in Revelation 12:6 represents different people in the Church around the world, so the protected wilderness place she flees to represents different, divinely-protected wilderness places around the world. When those in the Church living in Judaea see the abomination of desolation set up (Matthew 24:15), they should flee to places in the wilderness east of Judaea, in the mountains (Matthew 24:16) of Jordan. And those in the Church who will be living in places other than Judaea should flee to other wilderness places, mountainous places (Ezekiel 7:16), in the regions of the world where they live.

And they should have prepared beforehand hideouts in these wilderness/mountain places, hideouts already fully stocked with all of the emergency supplies of canned food, bottled water, warm clothing and bedding, etc., that they and their families and fellow Christians will need to survive (cf. 1 Timothy 5:8, Matthew 24:45-46, cf. Genesis 41:48,36, Genesis 45:7) until Jesus Christ returns, possibly on the 1,335th day after the abomination of desolation is set up (Daniel 12:11-12, Revelation 16:15). For they should not carry any supplies with them when they flee (Matthew 24:17-18). They should flee as unhindered and quickly as possible, knowing that when the abomination of desolation is set up, that could signal the beginning of the future Antichrist's literal 3.5-year Luciferian/Satanic worldwide reign of terror (Revelation 13:4-18, Revelation 12:9), when he will be given power to make war against all Biblical Christians that he can get his hands on, and to physically overcome them and kill them (by beheading) in every nation (Revelation 13:7-10, Revelation 14:12-13, Revelation 20:4-6, Matthew 24:9-13).

justbyfaith said in post #200:

Revelation 3:10 indicates to me a pre-tribulation rapture for those who will keep the word of Christ's patience in Luke 21:19.

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Note that the seven letters to seven churches in Revelation chapters 2-3 were sent to seven, literal, first century AD local church congregations in seven cities in the Roman province of "Asia" (Revelation 1:11), which is today western Turkey.

Revelation 3:10 meant that the literal, first century AD local church congregation in the city of Philadelphia (Revelation 3:7) in the Roman province of "Asia" (Revelation 1:11) would be kept safe from a persecution which came upon all the Roman world during the time of the Roman emperor Domitian. For the apostle John saw his Revelation vision (Revelation 1:1) near the end of Domitian's reign (Irenaeus, Against Heresies 5:30:3c), and Domitian persecuted the Church toward the end of his reign. The righteous, literal, first century AD local church congregation in the city of Smyrna (Revelation 2:8) in the Roman province of "Asia" (Revelation 1:11) had to suffer and die in that persecution over a period of ten literal days (Revelation 2:10).

The first century AD church in Philadelphia did not have to be taken out of the world to be kept safe from (Greek: "ek") that persecution. For, as Jesus Christ prayed for the Church in general: "I pray not that thou shouldest take them out of the world, but that thou shouldest keep them from (ek) the evil" (John 17:15,20). Also, the first century AD church in Philadelphia did not have to be removed from time itself, or from the earth, to be kept from the "hour", or the "time", of that persecution, just as, for example, a student in a classroom who has been excused from taking a test does not have to be removed from time itself, or from the classroom, to be excused from that time of testing. For he can be made to sit at his desk reading during that time, which will not be a time of testing for him.

Also, the first century AD persecution of Revelation 3:10 (and Revelation 2:10) was only "world"-wide in the sense of the Roman "world" (cf. Luke 2:1). So the subsequent reference to those on the "earth" in Revelation 3:10 should be understood as those Christians living on the earth during that time in the Roman empire, as opposed to those Christians who had already died and gone to heaven (cf. 2 Corinthians 5:8, Philippians 1:21,23).

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justbyfaith said in post #206:

I think that it says in the immediate context of the rapture passage (in the next chapter) that God has not appointed us to wrath.

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Note that 1 Thessalonians 5:9 refers only to wrath which is opposed to salvation, which is God's wrath (John 3:36). For even obedient Christians can suffer the wrath of Satan, which does not affect their salvation from hell (Revelation 12:17, Revelation 2:10). For even if they are killed by Satan, this is no loss for them, but gain, for it brings their still-conscious souls into heaven to be with Jesus Christ (Philippians 1:21,23; 2 Corinthians 5:8). Also, 1 Thessalonians 5:9a applies to anyone who obtains salvation (1 Thessalonians 5:9b), and no matter whether they live or die (1 Thessalonians 5:10).

Also, note that nothing requires that the entire future Tribulation of Revelation chapters 6 to 18 and Matthew 24 will be God's wrath, or that any part of the Tribulation which will be His wrath will be directed against any of the Christians (1 Thessalonians 5:9) who will still be alive on the earth at that time (Matthew 24:9-13, Revelation 13:7-10, Revelation 14:12-13, Revelation 20:4-6). Most of the Tribulation could be Satan's wrath working through evil people and natural forces to bring disaster upon the earth, like when Satan was allowed to work through evil people and natural forces to bring disaster on righteous Job (Job 1:12-20), against whom God had no wrath.

The future Tribulation's first five seals (Revelation 6:1-11) will not be God's wrath or judgment. For after the first four seals, the Christian martyrs of the fifth seal ask God when He is going to bring His judgment against non-Christians (Revelation 6:10). And the killing of even more Christian martyrs, which the fifth seal foretells will happen sometime after the fifth seal (Revelation 6:11), will not be God's wrath against those Christian martyrs. So Jesus Christ's unsealing of the seals (Revelation 6), the future Tribulation's first stage, does not mean that the events unsealed will be God's wrath, but simply means that they will be permitted by God to happen at that time.

The Tribulation's sixth seal (Revelation 6:12-14) will happen sometime before the future Day of the Lord (Joel 2:31, Revelation 6:12), as in only a few years before. The future Day of the Lord itself will not begin until Jesus Christ's Second Coming (1 Corinthians 1:7-8; 2 Thessalonians 2:1-8; 2 Thessalonians 1:7-10), which will not occur until Revelation 19:7 to 20:6, immediately after the future Tribulation of Revelation chapters 6 to 18 and Matthew 24 (Matthew 24:29-31; 2 Thessalonians 2:1-8). Similarly, the future Day of the Lord's wrath (Psalms 110:5) will not begin until Jesus' Second Coming (Revelation 19:19-21).

So the people quoted at the sixth seal (Revelation 6:17), during only the first stage of the future Tribulation, could be just as mistaken as Job was when he said that what was happening to him was God's wrath against him (Job 19:11). Just as what was happening to Job was actually Satan's wrath against him, not God's wrath, so the sixth seal could actually be Satan's wrath, not God's wrath. And just as the writer of the book of Job did not go out of his way to correct Job's mistaken statement in Job 19:11; and just as the apostles John and Matthew did not go out of their way to correct the mistaken statements of the people they quoted in John 7:12b and Matthew 27:63a; so the apostle John could have not gone out of his way to correct the statement of the people he quoted in Revelation 6:17.

After the Tribulation's sixth seal will occur its seventh seal (Revelation 8:1), out of which will come its seven trumpets (Revelation 8:1-2). And nothing requires that any of the first six trumpets' events in Revelation chapters 8 and 9 will be God's wrath. The fifth trumpet's events will be the work of strange locust-like beings from the Bottomless Pit (Revelation 9:2-10), led by a fallen angel from the Bottomless Pit (Revelation 9:11). And the sixth trumpet's events to the end of Revelation 9 will be the work of strange horse-like beings led by four fallen angels who are currently bound in the Euphrates (Revelation 9:14-19). So even though good angels of God will sound the first six trumpets, this could be announcing God's allowing the wrath of Satan to destroy one-third of different things (Revelation 8:7-12, Revelation 9:15,18), just as Satan will subsequently, mid-tribulation, be allowed by God to cause one-third of the angels (that is, his fallen angels) to be cast down to the earth permanently (Revelation 12:4, Revelation 12:9).

Revelation chapters 8 and 9 will happen before the future Antichrist's (the individual-man aspect of Revelation's beast's) literal 3.5-year worldwide Luciferian/Satanic reign (Revelation 13:4-18, Revelation 12:9). And the events in Revelation chapters 8 and 9 could be used by Satan to help prepare non-Christians to welcome that reign. For what Satan could do is first take great pleasure in causing the destruction in each event, but then claim that the destruction is not from him, but from YHWH, and that YHWH is a cruel tyrant god who hates mankind and only wants to make it suffer, while he (Satan, as "Lucifer") only wants the best for mankind (cf. Mark 8:33b). In this way, Satan could deceive non-Christians into actively hating YHWH, and worshipping Satan (the dragon) and the Antichrist instead (Revelation 13:4-18, Revelation 12:9). The Antichrist will utterly revile YHWH (Revelation 13:6, Daniel 11:36).

After the Antichrist's literal 3.5-year reign (Revelation 13:5-7) is declared legally over at the sounding of the future Tribulation's seventh trumpet (Revelation 11:15), the seven plagues of the seven vials of God's wrath will come out of the heavenly-temple opening of the seventh trumpet (Revelation 11:19, Revelation 15:5 to 16:1). The vials will then be poured out on the Antichrist's followers as God's judgment for their receiving the Antichrist's mark and worshipping his image (Revelation 16:2), and for their killing of Christians (Revelation 16:6-7, Revelation 13:7-10, Revelation 14:12-13, Revelation 20:4-6, Matthew 24:9-13).

During the future Antichrist's worldwide reign, Christians will be hated and killed in every nation for refusing to renounce the name of Jesus Christ (Matthew 24:9-13). They will be beheaded for refusing to renounce the witness of Jesus Christ (Revelation 20:4), for refusing to accept the antichrist lies that Jesus Himself is not the Christ (1 John 2:22), and that Christ Himself is not in the flesh (2 John 1:7). They will be beheaded for refusing to renounce the sound doctrine of the Bible, the Word of God (Revelation 20:4; 2 Timothy 3:15 to 4:4), for refusing to depart from the Biblical faith and give heed instead to seducing spirits and doctrines of devils (1 Timothy 4:1-2). They will be beheaded for refusing to worship the Antichrist's image (Revelation 20:4, Revelation 13:15). And all of this will be Satan's wrath against Christians (Revelation 12:17), not God's wrath. For Christians are not appointed to God's wrath (1 Thessalonians 5:9).

Even when God's wrath comes in the seven vials (Revelation 16), the future Tribulation's final stage, because Christians are not appointed to God's wrath, none of the vials will be directed at any Christians who will still be alive on the earth at that time, still waiting for Jesus Christ's Second Coming as a thief (Revelation 16:15). Instead, they will go into protective chambers which they will have prepared for themselves on the earth (Isaiah 26:20), just as Noah and his family went into the protective ark which they had prepared for themselves on the earth (Genesis 7:11,13).

Jesus Christ will return right after the seventh-and-last vial is completed (Revelation 16:17,19, Revelation 19:2-21, Matthew 24:29-30). And He Himself will bring the Second-Coming wrath of God upon non-Christians (Revelation 19:15-21). But before that Second-Coming wrath begins, Christians will be caught up together/gathered together (raptured) (1 Thessalonians 4:17; 2 Thessalonians 2:1, Matthew 24:31) into the sky to hold a meeting in the air with the returned Jesus (1 Thessalonians 4:17).

ewq1938 said:

Obviously I have not.

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Where in the context of 1 Corinthians 10:13 does it talk about the Great Trib?

I am avoiding Bible2+ and did not even read his posts per Romans 16:17.

DM25 said:

One thing that confuses me about pre-trib is that it's teaching two second comings (which would be three comings) but we know there is only one second coming. I believe we will all see Jesus come down from the sky with his white horse and it will be a big event. I think scripture says we will be protected more than we will escape.

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We are not appointed for wrath by God, and the Great tribulation will be His time of wrath upon the earth!

Bible2+ said:

That's right, but not necessarily physically protected (Luke 21:16).

That is, while at the future time of Revelation 7:2-4, only the 144,000 male-virgins part of the Church (Revelation 14:1,4) will be sealed for physical protection, all obedient people in the Church will still be spiritually protected during the future Tribulation of Revelation chapters 6 to 18 and Matthew 24, no matter what happens to them physically (Romans 8:35-37). Also, before Revelation 7:2-4 happens, the 144,000, along with some others, will be physically protected so that they will survive the Tribulation's first stage in Revelation 6, while others will die, and their souls will enter heaven (Revelation 7:9,14). It is near the end of this first stage that the 144,000 will be sealed (Revelation 7:3-4) for physical protection before the unsealing of the seventh seal (Revelation 8:1), out of which will come the Tribulation's seven trumpets (Revelation 8:1-2). The first six trumpets' events, up to Revelation 9:19, will be the Tribulation's second stage. The seal which the 144,000 will receive (which will be different from and in addition to the seal of God's Holy Spirit which they and all others in the Church of all times receive: Ephesians 1:13) will physically protect them during this second stage (Revelation 9:4).

After this second stage, the 144,000 male-virgins part of the Church will be caught up in their mortal bodies as the "man child" to God's throne in heaven (Revelation 12:5, Revelation 14:4-5, Textus Receptus), like how Enoch and Elijah were caught up in their mortal bodies to heaven (Hebrews 11:5; 2 Kings 2:11). Right after the 144,000 are caught up, the Tribulation's third stage, the literal 3.5-year worldwide reign of the future Antichrist (the individual-man aspect of Revelation's "beast") will begin (Revelation 12:5-6). This time period is shown from four different angles in Revelation chapters 11 to 14 (Revelation 11:2b-3, Revelation 12:6,14, Revelation 13:5-18, Revelation 14:9-13).

The 144,000 will remain in heaven before God's throne (Revelation 14:5, Textus Receptus) during the time of the future Antichrist's reign (Revelation 14:9-13, Revelation 13:5-18), while two other parts of the Church will still be on the earth: the figurative "woman" who represents those in the Church who will flee into prepared wilderness places and be physically protected by God (Revelation 12:6,14-16); and the remnant of her seed (Revelation 12:17), those in the Church who will remain in the cities and not be physically protected, but will be persecuted in every nation, imprisoned, and beheaded by the Antichrist (Revelation 13:7-10, Revelation 14:12-13, Revelation 20:4-6, Matthew 24:9-13).

After the future Antichrist's reign is declared legally over at the sounding of the seventh trumpet (Revelation 11:15), the seven plagues of the seven vials of God's wrath will come out of the seventh trumpet's heavenly-temple opening (Revelation 11:19, Revelation 15:5 to 16:1). These seven vials (Revelation 16) will be the Tribulation's fourth and final stage. Because the Church is not appointed to God's wrath (1 Thessalonians 5:9), none of these vials will be directed at those in the Church who will still be alive on the earth at that time, still waiting for Jesus Christ's Second Coming as a thief (Revelation 16:15). Instead, they will go into protective chambers which they will have built for themselves on the earth (Isaiah 26:20), just as Noah and his family went into the protective ark which they had built for themselves on the earth (Genesis 7:7). So some in the Church will survive the entire future Tribulation on the earth. They are those who will still be "alive and remain" at Jesus' Second Coming to be raptured (1 Thessalonians 4:15-17), immediately after the Tribulation (Matthew 24:29-31; 2 Thessalonians 2:1-8). These survivors will have experienced God's miraculous physical protection (Psalms 91) without having to have been part of the 144,000.



That's right, but it's when they see one sign in particular (Matthew 24:15-16).

Also, regarding "Judaea" in Matthew 24:16, this does not have to mean (as is sometimes clamed) first century AD Judaea, for there are many churches in Judaea (southern Israel) still today. They contain mostly Gentile Christians, not just Jewish Christians. The Church began and has always been in Judaea: "Then had the churches rest throughout all Judaea" (Acts 9:31); "the churches of Judaea" (Galatians 1:22); "the churches... in Judaea" (1 Thessalonians 2:14). Matthew 24:16 refers to those in the Church, whether Gentiles or Jews, who will be living in Judaea at the future point in time when the abomination of desolation (possibly a standing, android image of the future Antichrist) is set up in the holy place (the inner sanctum) of a future, third Jewish temple in Jerusalem (Matthew 24:15, Daniel 11:31).

The future Antichrist's persecution of the Church could begin in Jerusalem and Judaea right after the abomination of desolation is set up and the Antichrist sits in the future temple (at least one time) and proclaims himself God (2 Thessalonians 2:4, Daniel 11:36). So to avoid this persecution (cf. Matthew 10:23a), those in the Church living in Judaea should flee immediately after they see the abomination of desolation set up (Matthew 24:15-16), which event could occur at the midpoint of the future Tribulation of Revelation chapters 6 to 18 and Matthew 24, and which event could mark the start of the Antichrist's literal 3.5-year worldwide reign (Revelation 13:4-18). Eventually, the Antichrist's persecution of the Church (not in hiding) will reach every nation (Revelation 13:7-10, Revelation 14:12-13, Revelation 20:4-6, Matthew 24:9-13). So the basic principle of Matthew 24:16 of fleeing (the Antichrist's persecution) would apply to Christians around the world.

Just as the woman in Revelation 12:6 represents different people in the Church around the world, so the protected wilderness place she flees to represents different, divinely-protected wilderness places around the world. When those in the Church living in Judaea see the abomination of desolation set up (Matthew 24:15), they should flee to places in the wilderness east of Judaea, in the mountains (Matthew 24:16) of Jordan. And those in the Church who will be living in places other than Judaea should flee to other wilderness places, mountainous places (Ezekiel 7:16), in the regions of the world where they live.

And they should have prepared beforehand hideouts in these wilderness/mountain places, hideouts already fully stocked with all of the emergency supplies of canned food, bottled water, warm clothing and bedding, etc., that they and their families and fellow Christians will need to survive (cf. 1 Timothy 5:8, Matthew 24:45-46, cf. Genesis 41:48,36, Genesis 45:7) until Jesus Christ returns, possibly on the 1,335th day after the abomination of desolation is set up (Daniel 12:11-12, Revelation 16:15). For they should not carry any supplies with them when they flee (Matthew 24:17-18). They should flee as unhindered and quickly as possible, knowing that when the abomination of desolation is set up, that could signal the beginning of the future Antichrist's literal 3.5-year Luciferian/Satanic worldwide reign of terror (Revelation 13:4-18, Revelation 12:9), when he will be given power to make war against all Biblical Christians that he can get his hands on, and to physically overcome them and kill them (by beheading) in every nation (Revelation 13:7-10, Revelation 14:12-13, Revelation 20:4-6, Matthew 24:9-13).

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Ok so only 144,000 people will be lifted up to heaven and that's in the middle of the tribulation period? The rest will either be beheaded or survive until the end? Seems to make sense. But where does it say those 144,000 will be raptured?