IS THE LORD'S DAY REALLY SUNDAY OR GOD'S SABBATH DAY?

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klutedavid

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Gentiles never had a Sabbath day in a seven day week, they didn't have a seven day week in Jesus time and they never had a weekly Sabbath day of rest of any kind so they could not substitute Sunday for the Sabbath, only Jews could do that because only Jews had a weekly Sabbath.
In the Roman empire everyone apart from the state of Israel, worked everyday. Only in Israel could a person practice a rest on the seventh day, because only in Israel was it state law.

Within the Roman empire it was not until Constantine that Rome, allowed a day of rest on Sunday.
 
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LoveGodsWord

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No. You are blind. Re-read the text. It’s talking about the law of Moses which is the 10 commandments.

Brother no I am not blind in fact we went through every scriptures from v1-29 showing the CONTEXT you left out which it seems you have chosen to ignore in post # 215 linked which disagrees with your teachings
 
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Solomon Smith

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Acts 15

And certain men which came down from Judaea taught the brethren, and said, Except ye be circumcised after the manner of Moses, ye cannot be saved.

2 When therefore Paul and Barnabas had no small dissension and disputation with them, they determined that Paul and Barnabas, and certain other of them, should go up to Jerusalem unto the apostles and elders about this question.

3 And being brought on their way by the church, they passed through Phenice and Samaria, declaring the conversion of the Gentiles: and they caused great joy unto all the brethren.

4 And when they were come to Jerusalem, they were received of the church, and of the apostles and elders, and they declared all things that God had done with them.

5 But there rose up certain of the sect of the Pharisees which believed, saying, That it was needful to circumcise them, and to command them to keep the law of Moses.

6 And the apostles and elders came together for to consider of this matter.

7 And when there had been much disputing, Peter rose up, and said unto them, Men and brethren, ye know how that a good while ago God made choice among us, that the Gentiles by my mouth should hear the word of the gospel, and believe.

8 And God, which knoweth the hearts, bare them witness, giving them the Holy Ghost, even as he did unto us;

9 And put no difference between us and them, purifying their hearts by faith.

10 Now therefore why tempt ye God, to put a yoke upon the neck of the disciples, which neither our fathers nor we were able to bear?

11 But we believe that through the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ we shall be saved, even as they.

12 Then all the multitude kept silence, and gave audience to Barnabas and Paul, declaring what miracles and wonders God had wrought among the Gentiles by them.

13 And after they had held their peace, James answered, saying, Men and brethren, hearken unto me:

14 Simeon hath declared how God at the first did visit the Gentiles, to take out of them a people for his name.

15 And to this agree the words of the prophets; as it is written,

16 After this I will return, and will build again the tabernacle of David, which is fallen down; and I will build again the ruins thereof, and I will set it up:

17 That the residue of men might seek after the Lord, and all the Gentiles, upon whom my name is called, saith the Lord, who doeth all these things.

18 Known unto God are all his works from the beginning of the world.

19 Wherefore my sentence is, that we trouble not them, which from among the Gentiles are turned to God:

20 But that we write unto them, that they abstain from pollutions of idols, and from fornication, and from things strangled, and from blood.

21 For Moses of old time hath in every city them that preach him, being read in the synagogues every sabbath day.

22 Then pleased it the apostles and elders with the whole church, to send chosen men of their own company to Antioch with Paul and Barnabas; namely, Judas surnamed Barsabas and Silas, chief men among the brethren:

23 And they wrote letters by them after this manner; The apostles and elders and brethren send greeting unto the brethren which are of the Gentiles in Antioch and Syria and Cilicia.

24 Forasmuch as we have heard, that certain which went out from us have troubled you with words, subverting your souls, saying, Ye must be circumcised, and keep the law: to whom we gave no such commandment:

25 It seemed good unto us, being assembled with one accord, to send chosen men unto you with our beloved Barnabas and Paul,

26 Men that have hazarded their lives for the name of our Lord Jesus Christ.

27 We have sent therefore Judas and Silas, who shall also tell you the same things by mouth.

28 For it seemed good to the Holy Ghost, and to us, to lay upon you no greater burden than these necessary things;

29 That ye abstain from meats offered to idols, and from blood, and from things strangled, and from fornication: from which if ye keep yourselves, ye shall do well. Fare ye well.

30 So when they were dismissed, they came to Antioch: and when they had gathered the multitude together, they delivered the epistle:

31 Which when they had read, they rejoiced for the consolation.

32 And Judas and Silas, being prophets also themselves, exhorted the brethren with many words, and confirmed them.

33 And after they had tarried there a space, they were let go in peace from the brethren unto the apostles.

34 Notwithstanding it pleased Silas to abide there still.

35 Paul also and Barnabas continued in Antioch, teaching and preaching the word of the Lord, with many others also.

36 And some days after Paul said unto Barnabas, Let us go again and visit our brethren in every city where we have preached the word of the Lord, and see how they do.

37 And Barnabas determined to take with them John, whose surname was Mark.

38 But Paul thought not good to take him with them, who departed from them from Pamphylia, and went not with them to the work.

39 And the contention was so sharp between them, that they departed asunder one from the other: and so Barnabas took Mark, and sailed unto Cyprus;

40 And Paul chose Silas, and departed, being recommended by the brethren unto the grace of God.

41 And he went through Syria and Cilicia, confirming the churches.
 
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DM25

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While I agree with most of this it isn’t entirely correct. Sunday is indeed the Lord’s Day.
No it isn't. There is no such thing as Lord's day. Nowhere in the bible does it say "The Lord's day is Sunday". EVERYDAY is a Lord's day. True believers live out his will every single day, and don't do anything more special on Sunday (or Saturday for that matter).
 
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LoveGodsWord

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It isn't eternal, a daily cycle of 24 hour days isn't eternal. But carry on :)

Not quite sure what you mean brother. Sabbath means from one interval to the next in this context the SEVENTH DAY.
 
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Solomon Smith

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No it isn't. There is no such thing as Lord's day. Nowhere in the bible does it say "The Lord's day is Sunday". EVERYDAY is a Lord's day. True believers live out his will every single day, and don't do anything more special on Sunday (or Saturday for that matter).

Read the writings of the ECF I posted. Sunday is indeed the Lord’s Day.
 
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GingerBeer

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Not quite sure what you mean brother. Sabbath means from one interval to the next in this context the SEVENTH DAY.
If Sabbath means one in seven and the seventh then why does it actually mean "rest"?
 
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Kenny'sID

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Why would you think I have refused to discuss anying? I have provided scripture for all my posts. What have you provided in support of yours? Please feel free to address my posts and show me why it is you disagree with the scriptures provided. If you cannot why do you not agree with God's WORD?


Why? because you did. I don't care if you provided scripture for all your posts, that has nothing to do with what I asked of you, again...why do you keep saying you provided scripture when that had nothing to do with what I was taking about. You seem to think because you can repeat scripture and pretend it says something it does not, that supports your claim. Again, you never would cite how you draw the Mark of the beast conclusion, step by step. You have not an you will not, because you know you cannot back up the claim, and once we get into the details, it will fall apart. Yet time and time again, all you say when I tell you what you refused to do, is change the subject and say you have quoted scripture...unbelievable, as well as bizzare.

Kenny the scripture says all have sinned (past tense). It is not saying we are free to continue in known sin. Those who continue in known unrepentant sin do not know God and this is the difference between the children of God and the children of the devil *1 JOHN 2:3-4; 1 JOHN 3:3-9. Those who continue in known unrepentant sin will not enter the KINGDOM of HEAVEN *HEBREWS 10:26-27. Jesus came to save us from sin not in sin *JOHN 8:31-36.

All have sinned and we will continue to sin to some degree, as we have the sin nature. Sins are forgivable as long as we are repentant and don't live in sin, but to say we no longer sin, in the present, is simply not the truth.

I did. You left it out of the post you were responding to.

Then tell me what that post was, that's all I ask, but instead of doing the logical thing in response to my question, you say I left it out, but don't say what it was. Evading.

Hope that is enough scripture for you brother.

No, not nearly enough. In all that writing you do as you always do, and post a bunch of scripture and tell us to go read it, but never once do you show exactly where the scripture backs your claims. You are basically telling us to read the scripture and get the same from it as you do, when we cannot see what you do, because it isn't there.

Once again, show me where the Bibles says clearly/point blank Gentiles are grafted to Israelite? You can post scripture till the cows come home but if you cannot show us where that scripture says what you say it does, it does no good at all.

Seems to me, someone has told you these scriptures mean what they do not, you bought it hook line and sinker, an without question, and then they sent you out with no armor, or way to back these things up, only to embarrass yourself or at the least, not be effective...what a mean thing to do to a brother.

That or you missed the class...SDA 101.

SAYING "I QUOTED SCRIPTURE" DOES NOTHING UNLESS YOU CAN SHOW PRECISELY HOW THAT SCRIPTURE SAYS WHAT YOU SAY IT DOES. DO YOU UNDERSTAND?

Geez
 
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LoveGodsWord

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If Sabbath means one in seven and the seventh then why does it actually mean "rest"?
This is the origin of the Sabbath brother from GENESIS 2:1-3 which is the root word of where SABBATH comes from.
 
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Kenny'sID

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I can’t take this guy seriously. He repeats the same tripe never endlessly and has no knowledge of church history.

For those who know what I mean, I'm beginning to thing something is just not "right" here.
 
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LoveGodsWord

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Why? because you did. I don't care if you provided scripture for all your posts, that has nothing to do with what I asked of you, again...why do you keep saying you provided scripture when that had nothing to do with what I was taking about.

You seem to think because you can repeat scripture and pretend it says something it does not, that supports your claim. Again, you never would cite how you draw the Mark of the beast conclusion, step by step. You have not an you will not, because you know you cannot back up the claim, and once we get into the details, it will fall apart. Yet time and time again, all you say when I tell you what you refused to do, is change the subject and say you have quoted scripture...unbelievable, as well as bizzare.

All have sinned and we will continue to sin to some degree, as we have the sin nature. Sins are forgivable as long as we are repentant and don't live in sin, but to say we no longer sin, in the present, is simply not the truth.

Then tell me what that post was, that's all I ask, but instead of doing the logical thing in response to my question, you say I left it out, but don't say what it was. Evading.

No, not nearly enough. In all that writing you do as you always do, and post a bunch of scripture and tell yuds to go read it, but never once do you show exacly where the scripture backs your claims. you are basically telling us to read the scripture and get the same from it as you do, when we cannot see what you do, because it isn't there.

Once again, show me where the Bibles says clearly/point blank Gentiles are grafted to Israelite? You can post scripture till the cows come home but if you cannot show us where that scripture says what you say it does, it does no good at all.

Seems to me, someone has told you these scriptures mean what they do not, you bought it hook line and sinker, an without question, and then they sent you out with no armor, or way to back these things up, only to embarrass yourself or at the least, not be effective...what a mean thing to do to a brother.

That or you missed the class...SDA 101.

SAYING "I QUOTED SCRIPTURE" DOES NOTHING UNLESS YOU CAN SHOW PRECISELY HOW THAT SCRIPTURE SAYS WHAT YOU SAY IT DOES. DO YOU UNDERSTAND?

Geez

Hello Kenny, all I hear is a repitition of your words over God's WORD. Everything in this post has already been addressed in post # 195 linked with God's WORD. You are free to agree or disagree. I do not judge you. Your argument is with God brother not me.
 
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LoveGodsWord

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For those who know what I mean, I'm beginning to thing something is just not "right" here.

Indeed. Where are the scriptures that teach God's 4th Commandment is now ABOLISHED and we are now commanded to keep SUNDAY as a HOLY DAY and where is the scriptures that says that the "LORDS DAY" is Sunday?
 
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klutedavid

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Goodness brother. They are part of the same Church they are not different to each other. The only difference is that it became officially accepted by Pagan ROME in 380 AD. According to tradition, the history of the Catholic Church begins with Jesus Christ and his teachings (c. 4 BC – c. AD 30) (Wiki History of the Roman Catholic Church)
This is simply not correct.

In AD 380, the emperor declared the Nicea creed the official religion of the Roman empire.
Christianity was in other words the official religion. This edict by the emperor does not give the Roman Catholic Church any authority.

The Roman Catholic church would not have any real power over other church regions, until centuries later.

Justinian I, who became emperor in Constantinople in 527, recognized the patriarchs of Rome, Constantinople, Alexandria, Antioch and Jerusalem as the top leadership of the Church. (wikipedia)

See, the church in Rome was one of five church regions.

Even as late as 527 AD there was still five patriarchs of equivalent power. So don't start telling me that the Roman Catholic church was calling the shots before 527 AD. Because that is not true and is not based on church history.

Roman Catholics may trace their history back to Peter, they are entitled to do that. But history does not grant the Roman Catholic Church any real authority until well after 527 AD.

By the way, what pope changed the Sabbath day to Sunday?
 
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Kenny'sID

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Kenny don't pretend your question was not answered brother. I highlighted v26 was talking about ISRAEL.

I'm not pretending, you have now showed me the word "Israel" but you have never once answered my question on how any scripture you have posted backs your claim we are grafted to Israel. Where does the bible clearly state that as i have read it and just don't see what you claim it says...nothing. Again, I think someone explained all that to mean what you say it does, but they spun it to mean that, and now you are stuck here with no way to show us how it means what you claim, and quite honestly, that's because it never did, you just believed it without question and now you cannot defend it.

Tell you what, why don't you look up their official explanation of that and I'll take a look at it, just in case they have a point and you are not able to make that point. Fair enough?

And as always, post it here for all to see.
 
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klutedavid

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Indeed. Where are the scriptures that teach God's 4th Commandment is now ABOLISHED and we are now commanded to keep SUNDAY as a HOLY DAY and where is the scriptures that says that the "LORDS DAY" is Sunday?
A Jew might be interested in a question related to the law. A Gentile is not under the law, so a Gentile never had a Sabbath to abolish. That is probably why you won't find the abolition of the Sabbath in the scripture.

I think I have answered your question.

By the way, you also won't find a statement saying, Gentiles are under the law. Nor will you find a statement in the New Testament; Gentiles must obey the ten commandments.

These statements do not appear in Acts 15, nor anywhere else. For very good reason, only Israel was under the written law at Sinai. This is precisely why Gentiles are not circumcised.

Even though Abraham's descendants and the Jews at Mt Sinai were commanded, to be circumcised. The Gentiles never were obliged to become Jews.
 
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Kenny'sID

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Indeed. Where are the scriptures that teach God's 4th Commandment is now ABOLISHED

It's not abolished for the Israelites, please pay attention to the fact you have not told us how those are a Gentile law.

Show me where the bible actually say the Gentiles are the same as Israelites?

and we are now commanded to keep SUNDAY as a HOLY DAY and where is the scriptures that says that the "LORDS DAY" is Sunday?

Read my very first post to this thread.
 
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GingerBeer

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This is the origin of the Sabbath brother from GENESIS 2:1-3 which is the root word of where SABBATH comes from.
It seems a little bit irrelevant to be saying that Genesis 2:1-3 significant but carry on ...
Genesis 2:1-3

1 And the heavens and the earth were finished, and all the host of them.

2 And on the seventh day God finished his work which he had made; and he rested on the seventh day from all his work which he had made.

3 And God blessed the seventh day, and hallowed it; because that in it he rested from all his work which God had created and made.​
Rested :
ָשַׁבת
šaḇaṯ
: A verb meaning to repose, to rest, to rid of, to still, to put away, to leave. Most often, the word expresses the idea of resting (i.e., abstaining from labour), especially on the seventh day (see Exo 20:8-11). It is from this root that the noun for Sabbath originates, a word designating the time to be set aside for rest. The verb is used of God to describe His resting after the completion of creation (Gen 2:2). This example of rest by God at creation set the requirement of rest that He desires for His people in order that they may live lives pleasing to Him, full of worship and adoration (Exo 31:17). In Joshua, the verb expresses a cessation of the provision of manna by God to the Israelites (Jos 5:12). The land was also depicted as enjoying a rest from the Israelite farmers while they were in exile (Lev 26:34-35).

Daniel uses this verb to indicate a ceasing of ritual sacrifice and offerings (Dan 9:27). In that passage, Daniel was speaking of the Messiah's coming and the establishment of the New Covenant, when there would be no more need for ritual sacrifices. In another context, the verb can mean to exterminate or destroy a certain object, such as in Amo 8:4 in which Amos addresses those who trampled the needy and did away with the poor. The verb means to cause, to desist from, as in God's declaration of action against the shepherds (Eze 34:10). The word suggests a removing of people or other objects (Exo 12:15; Eze 23:27, Eze 23:48; Isa 30:11). In still other contexts, the causative stem means to fail or to leave lacking. In Rth 4:14, God was praised because He did not leave Naomi without a kinsman-redeemer.​
Sabbath still means "rest" as a noun rather than as a verb, but I don't see how that makes one twenty four hour day in seven eternal or anything like it.
 
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DamianWarS

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if you study the scriptures with some detail

What are you suggesting here? That I don't study the scriptures with detail?

None of the scriptures you have provided here in your post says that God's 4th commandment is notw Abolished and we are now commanded to keep Sunday as a Holy day now do they?

I wasn't defending any of this. Why have you pretended I do and turn my argument into something I never spoke about.

The above is deceptive.
 
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Oldmantook

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Matthew 28:1 establishes its use as Sunday by detailing After the Sabbath (Opse de sabbaton) at dawn (te epiphoskouse) on the first day of the week (eis mian sabbaton) This use is undeniable that "eis mian sabbaton" is Sunday and it shows us how "one sabbath" is used. the first day of the week is "one sabbath" the second day is "two sabbath" and so on. This was the Hebrew method of counting days in the first century.

this is actually a good point because it shows how important the Sabbath was to Jews as the entire days of the week was used to indicate where the sabbath is. You wouldn't say "on the seventh day of the week" or "seven sabbath" as it is the culmination of the week that every day points to and it is just called Sabbath.

John, a Jewish born believer, I don't think would dare rename the Sabbath and he would still have great respect towards it and continue to call it the Sabbath. But as numbering your days of the week towards the Sabbath shows strong value to the Sabbath early Christians may have started to also name the day of the week that was most important to them as "The Lord's Day"; a day that now stands on it's own and no longer is counted by how close it is to the Sabbath. This is strong significance by going away from the Sabbath system and declaring a new system simply by using a new name for a day of the week. John was not walking on the first day of the sabbaths, he was walking on a new day, the Lord's day.
Sabbath never refers to Sunday. The context of Acts 20:7 supports this. If as you claim that this verse references the first day of the week meaning Sunday, then Sunday this morning gathering to break bread ends up being a marathon service. Paul preached until midnight so can you imagine how long they met if the church gathered to meet on Sunday as you claim. Instead the context makes more sense if the church met on Saturday evening sabbath as was their usual custom.
http://www.ourancientpaths.org/single-post/2016/12/28/A-Long-Winded-Preacher-and-Motzaei-Shabbat
 
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