Partial Preterist Only How much OT/NT prophecy [as well as Revelation] do Partial-Preterists view as fulfilled?

LittleLambofJesus

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Isa 65:17 "For behold, I create new heavens and a new earth; And the former shall not be remembered or come to mind.
Isa 65:18 But be glad and rejoice forever in what I create; For behold, I create Jerusalem as a rejoicing, And her people a joy.
Isa 65:19 I will rejoice in Jerusalem, And joy in My people; The voice of weeping shall no longer be heard in her, Nor the voice of crying.


How do we reconcile death and sinners in the New heavens and New earth?
claninja said:
the context of the prophecy: The New Heavens and New earth
Isaiah 65:1 See, I will create new heavens and a new earth.

For a man, alive in the New heavens and New earth, will be considered young when he dies at 100 years. And a sinner, in the new heavens and new earth, who lives to 100 will be accursed.
Isaiah 65:20 No more shall there be in it an infant who lives but a few days, or an old man who does not fill out his days, FOR the young man shall die a hundred years old, and the sinner a hundred years old shall be accursed.

How do we reconcile death and sinners in the New heavens and New earth?
Interesting posts.
It appears the NH and NE are symbolizing OC 1st century Jerusalem before 70ad.
Now what would the "former things"?

Isaiah 65
17 For behold! I am creating new Heavens and a new Earth,
And the former things[earthly Temple] are not remembered, Nor do they ascend on the heart.
18 But joy ye, and rejoice for ever, that I [am] Creator for behold!
I am creating Jerusalem a rejoicing, And her people a joy.
19 And I have rejoiced in Jerusalem, And have joyed in My people, And not heard in her any more Is the voice of weeping, and the voice of crying.

Revelation 21:4
“And God will wipe away every tear from their eyes; there shall be no more death, nor sorrow, nor crying.
There shall be no more pain, for the former things have passed away.

One reason that made me think of 1st Jerusalem symbolizing the "Lake of Fire" is because Jesus uses the word "Gehenna".

Is the GREAT CITY in Revelation symbolizing the LAKE OF FIRE?

Luke 13:34
“O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, the one who kills the prophets and stones those who are sent to her! How often I wanted to gather your children together, as a hen gathers her brood under her wings, but you were not willing!
Matthew 23:37
O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, the one who kills the prophets and stones those who are sent to her! How often I wanted to gather your children together, as a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, but you were not willing!

Matthew 23
33 "Serpents! produce of vipers! how? ye may be fleeing from the judging of the geennhV <1067>
[Ezekiel 39:12/Reve 14:11]

Revelation 14:11
And the Smoke of the tormenting of Them
is ascending into Ages to-Ages.......... [Ezekiel 39:12/Luke 16:24,26]

Luke 18:7
“And shall God not avenge
<1557> His own elect/chosen who cry out day and night to Him, though He bears long with them?
[Revelation 6:10 Revelation 19:2]

Revelation 6:10
and they were crying-out with a great voice saying,
'how long! O Master/Owner, the Holy and the True, dost Thou not judge
and take vengeance/avenge<1556> of our blood from those dwelling upon the land?'

Revelation 19:2
because true and just/righteous<1342> are His judgments,
because He did judge the great harlot who did corrupt the land in Her whoredom,
and He did avenge<1556> the blood of His bond-servants at Her Hand;
 
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claninja

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You do not, because you are ignoring the context of the verse, and the passage.

I believe the context is the New heavens and New earth. However, if I am ignoring the context, then what is the context if it is not the New heavens and New Earth?

If I say... There shall be no more... and then list 100 things, then that means there will be none of the things on the list.

Right, but we can't forget the word "for", which indicates that all of things of the list are a part of the NHNE.

In the NHNE there will not be an infant who lives but a few days or an old man who does not fill out his days FOR the child shall die at 100 and the sinner accursed at 100

Isaiah 65:20
No more shall there be in it
an infant who lives but a few days,
or an old man who does not fill out his days,
FOR the child shall die a hundred years old,
and the sinner a hundred years old shall be accursed.

In the NHNE, they shall not build and another inhabit nor plant and another eat FOR the days of his people will be like the days of a tree and they shall enjoy the work of their hands
Isaiah 65:21-22
They shall build houses and inhabit them;
they shall plant vineyards and eat their fruit.
They shall not build and another inhabit;
they shall not plant and another eat;
FOR like the days of a tree shall the days of my people be,
and my chosen shall long enjoyc the work of their hands.

In the NHNE, they shall no labor in vain or bear children for calamity FOR they shall be offspring of the Lord
Isaiah 65:23
They shall not labor in vain
or bear children for calamity,d
FOR they shall be the offspring of the blessed of the Lord,
and their descendants with them.


This would explain why there are those that still need healing in the NHNE
Revelation 22:2 The leaves of the tree were for the healing of the nations.



It is a very difficult verse.

I agree.
 
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BABerean2

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I believe the context is the New heavens and New earth. However, if I am ignoring the context, then what is the context if it is not the New heavens and New Earth?



Right, but we can't forget the word "for", which indicates that all of things of the list are a part of the NHNE.

In the NHNE there will not be an infant who lives but a few days or an old man who does not fill out his days FOR the child shall die at 100 and the sinner accursed at 100

Isaiah 65:20
No more shall there be in it
an infant who lives but a few days,
or an old man who does not fill out his days,
FOR the child shall die a hundred years old,
and the sinner a hundred years old shall be accursed.

In the NHNE, they shall not build and another inhabit nor plant and another eat FOR the days of his people will be like the days of a tree and they shall enjoy the work of their hands
Isaiah 65:21-22
They shall build houses and inhabit them;
they shall plant vineyards and eat their fruit.
They shall not build and another inhabit;
they shall not plant and another eat;
FOR like the days of a tree shall the days of my people be,
and my chosen shall long enjoyc the work of their hands.

In the NHNE, they shall no labor in vain or bear children for calamity FOR they shall be offspring of the Lord
Isaiah 65:23
They shall not labor in vain
or bear children for calamity,d
FOR they shall be the offspring of the blessed of the Lord,
and their descendants with them.


This would explain why there are those that still need healing in the NHNE
Revelation 22:2 The leaves of the tree were for the healing of the nations.





I agree.

Do you believe the curse of the garden can be lifted and there will still be physical death of human beings?

Do you believe this current earth will exist in its present state for an eternity?

.
 
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claninja

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Do you believe the curse of the garden can be lifted and there will still be physical death of human beings?

I believe there is no more death and no more curse in the New Jerusalem
Revelation 21:4 He will wipe every tear from their eyes. There will be no more death’ or mourning or crying or pain, for the old order of things has passed away.”
Revelation 22:3 No longer will there be any curse.

I believe there is no more curse for those who dwell in the heavenly Jerusalem
Zechariah 14:11 (Septuagint) they shall dwell in the city; and there shall be no more any curse, and Jerusalem shall dwell securely


I believe there is sin and death for those who do not belong to the heavenly Jerusalem
Zechariah 14:17-19 (Septuagint) And it shall come to pass, [that] whosoever of all the families of the earth shall not come up to Jerusalem to worship the king, the Lord Almighty, even these shall be added to the others. 18 And if the family of Egypt shall not go up, nor come; then upon them shall be the overthrow with which the Lord shall smite all the nations, whichever of them shall not come up to keep the feast of tabernacles. 19 This shall be the sin of Egypt, and the sin of all the nations, whosoever shall not come up to keep the feast of tabernacles

I believe the words of Jesus, that EVERYONE who lives and believes in Jesus will never die.
John 11:26 Jesus said to her, “I am the resurrection and the life. He who believes in Me will live, even though he dies. And everyone who lives and believes in Me will never die. Do you believe this?”


I believe the curse of spiritual death was ended at the cross
Romans 5:17 For if, by the trespass of the one man, death reigned through that one man, how much more will those who receive an abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness reign in life through the one man, Jesus Christ!
Galatians 3:13 Christ redeemed us from the curse of the Law by becoming a curse for us

I believe those that attain the resurrection will never die
Luke 20:36 In fact, they can no longer die, because they are like the angels. And since they are sons of the resurrection, they are sons of God.
 
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claninja

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Do you believe this current earth will exist in its present state for an eternity?

I believe as long as God sustains the physical earth, it will remain.
Ecclesiastes 1:4 Generations come and generations go, but the earth remains forever.

God sustained the earth after the world perished by the flood, and he sustained the earth after the removal of the old covenant.
 
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LittleLambofJesus

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I believe as long as God sustains the physical earth, it will remain.
Ecclesiastes 1:4 Generations come and generations go, but the earth remains forever.
God sustained the earth after the world perished by the flood, and he sustained the earth after the removal of the old covenant.
Did you know the 5 month siege of 70ad Jerusalem is the amount of time the flood covered the earth.....5 months of torment is also mentioned in Revelation concerning the "Great City".......awsome!

Discussion - Earth calamities and Rumors of war
The holocaust of 70ad Jerusalem
He doesn't? Does he say that he doesn't?

If so, why doesn't he? For six times more Jews suffered and died in the Holocaust (6 million) than in 70 AD (1 million). And this doesn't even get into the something like 34 million non-Jews who died in World War II.

So to say that 70 AD was worse than World War II just doesn't make any sense whatsoever........
During WWII the Jews were slaughtered in different parts of Germany and Europe, not all in one City [as in 70ad Jerusalem].
The Nazi led holocaust was over a period of about 10 to 12 years, not exactly what I would call a "short period" of time..

Compare that to the short 5 months 70ad Jerusalem endured in that "holocaust" [according to Josephus].

History of the Jews during World War II - Wikipedia


Unless you and/or others see Berlin, Germany as that great City in Revelation, then the only other City it could be is Jerusalem 70ad.

Jesus specifically says so right here in black and white in the Holy Writ:

Matthew 23:37

“O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, the one who kills the prophets and stones those who are sent to her! How often I wanted to gather your children together, as a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, but you were not willing!
Luke 13:34
“O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, the one who kills the prophets and stones those who are sent to her! How often I wanted to gather your children together, as a hen gathers her brood under her wings, but you were not willing!

Matthew 24:21
19 But woe to those who are pregnant and to those who are nursing babies in those, the days!
21 for then shall be great Tribulation<2347> , such as was not from the beginning of world till now, no, nor may be becoming.

Mark 13:17
“But woe to those who are pregnant and to those who are nursing babies in those days

Luke 21:
22 “For these are the days of Vengeance, that all things which are written may be fulfilled.
23 “But woe to those who are pregnant and to those who are nursing babies in those days!
For there will be great Distress<318> in the land and wrath upon this people.


Mattthew 24:22
And if no was shortened those days, not ever was saved all flesh.
Because of yet the elect-chosen/eklektouV<1588>, shall be being shortened/<2856> those days. [Mark 13:20]

Mark 13:20 And if no Lord shortens those days, not ever was saved all flesh
but because of the chosen-ones whom He chooses, He shortens<2856> the days [Matt 24:22]

In Revelation 9, it shows the 70ad Jews are tormented 5 months.
This has to be the Great Tribulation and Distress mentioned in the Jerusalem/Temple discourses:

Revelation 9:5
And was given to them that not they should be killing them, but that they should be being tormented five months
And the torment of them as torment of a scorpion/skorpiou <4651>, whenever it should be striking a man;
[coincidentally, the same amount of time the flood covered the earth in Genesis:

Revelation 6:6
And I hear a voice in midst of the four living-ones saying: "choinex of grain/wheat a denari and three choinex of barleys a denari, and the oil and the wine no you should be injuring". [John 11:48]

The Destruction of Jerusalem - George Peter Holford, 1805AD


The day on which Titus encompassed Jerusalem, was the feast of the Passover.....
The city was at this time crowded with Jewish strangers, and foreigners from all parts, so that the whole nation may be considered as having been shut up in one prison, preparatory to the execution of the Divine vengeance ; and, according to Josephus this event took place suddenly

I had read Revelatin 6:6 denotes "famine"

Revelation 6:6
And I hear a voice in midst of the four living-ones saying: "choinex of grain/wheat a denari and three choinex of barleys a denari, and the oil and the wine no you should be injuring".

Meanwhile the horrors of famine grew still more melancholy and afflictive. The Jews, for of food were at length compelled to eat their belts, their sandals, the skins of their shields, dried grass, and even the ordure of oxen. In the depth or this horrible extremity, a Jewess of noble family urged by the intolerable cravings of hunger, slew her infant child, and prepared it for a meal ;
At the recital of this melancholy and affecting occurrence, the whole city stood aghast, and poured forth their congratulations on those whom death had hurried away from such heartrending scenes
Revelation 9:6

In those days men will seeking the death and will not find it;
they will desire to be dying die, and the death will flee from them.

This memorable siege terminated on the eighth day of the ninth month, A.D. 70 : its duration was nearly five months, the Romans having invested the city on the fourteenth day of the fourth month, preceeding.
Before their final demolition, however, Titus took a survey of the city and its fortifications ; and, while contemplating their impregnable strength, could not help ascribing his success to the peculiar interposition of the ALMIGHTY HIMSELF. "Had not God himself (exclaimed he) aided out operations, and driven the Jews from their fortresses, it would have been absolutely impossible to have taken them ; for what could men, and the force of engines, have done against such towers as these ?"

Mattthew 24:22
And if no was shortened those days, not ever was saved all flesh.
Because of yet the elect-chosen/eklektouV<1588>, shall be being shortened/<2856> those days. [Mark 13:20]


.
 
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claninja

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Did you know the 5 month siege of 70ad Jerusalem is the amount of time the flood covered the earth.....5 months of torment is also mentioned in Revelation concerning the "Great City".......awsome!

Didn't realize this. It's interesting to see all of the comparisons of the flood and the final judgment.
 
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LittleLambofJesus

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Didn't realize this. It's interesting to see all of the comparisons of the flood and the final judgment.
Here is a little bit from Daniel.

Jesus mentions the prophet Daniel and the AoD in the Olivet Discourse and I remember something about Daniel mentioning the end would be with a "flood", which I can see as the flood of Roman army decimating 70ad Jerusalem.
Pretty interesting.......

The Flood of Daniel 9:26
quote for site:

In the outline of the future of God's holy city Jerusalem, that is contained in the prophecy about the 70 Weeks, Daniel mentioned a "flood". Daniel 9:26 says, in part:

And the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined.

This prophecy of the 70 Weeks is focused upon the holy city Jerusalem, and refers to the street being repaired, and wall being rebuilt, as happened when some of the Jews returned from Babylon after the captivity. But the city of Jerusalem is a type or figure of the holy city, the Church, which Paul calls the "Jerusalem which is above" in Galatians 4:26.

There is a question about what kind of flood is referred to in Daniel 9:26. Some have suggested that it refers to an army, or military operation of some sort, in the vicinity of Jerusalem. If it is taken to be a literal flood of water, where would all that water come from? Jerusalem is located high above any river. Could it refer to some other kind of flood?

If the nature of the flood is not correctly understood, much of point of Daniel's prophecy will be missed.........................


.
 
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BABerean2

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I believe as long as God sustains the physical earth, it will remain.
Ecclesiastes 1:4 Generations come and generations go, but the earth remains forever.

God sustained the earth after the world perished by the flood, and he sustained the earth after the removal of the old covenant.

There is an earth that will remain "forever".

Paul revealed its location below.


Gal 4:25 for this Hagar is Mount Sinai in Arabia, and corresponds to Jerusalem which now is, and is in bondage with her children—
Gal 4:26 but the Jerusalem above is free, which is the mother of us all.

Either you are confused, or Peter is confused in the passage below.

You are quoting part of the passage, but ignoring the rest of it.
This is the mark of all false doctrines.


2Pe 3:6 by which the world that then existed perished, being flooded with water.
2Pe 3:7 But the heavens and the earth which are now preserved by the same word, are reserved for fire until the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men.

2Pe 3:8 But, beloved, do not forget this one thing, that with the Lord one day is as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.
2Pe 3:9 The Lord is not slack concerning His promise, as some count slackness, but is longsuffering toward us, not willing that any should perish but that all should come to repentance.
2Pe 3:10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night, in which the heavens will pass away with a great noise, and the elements will melt with fervent heat; both the earth and the works that are in it will be burned up.

2Pe 3:11 Therefore, since all these things will be dissolved, what manner of persons ought you to be in holy conduct and godliness,
2Pe 3:12 looking for and hastening the coming of the day of God, because of which the heavens will be dissolved, being on fire, and the elements will melt with fervent heat?
2Pe 3:13 Nevertheless we, according to His promise, look for new heavens and a new earth in which righteousness dwells.



If you believe this present rotten, sin-cursed world will last "forever", you have exposed one of the greatest errors of Full-Preterism.

The gigantic nuclear furnace known as the sun, is converting its Hydrogen fuel into Helium, through the process of nuclear fusion.
In the future, the sun will swell into a red giant star and melt the surface of this planet, if things continue as they now are.
(Read Red Giants and White Dwarfs, by astronomer Robert Jastrow.)

Therefore, this present planet cannot last "forever", as a place for human habitation.
This place is not my home.

As Paul stated in Galatians chapter 4, my home is now above.

Peter was looking for our future home in 2 Peter 3:13.
I am looking for the same thing.

.


 
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Man on Fire

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Nothing new happens under the sun. (Ecclesiastes 1:9-11)

Nothing new under the sun is a concept. It is an important concept to see how God has been working in history and understanding prophecy.

Time goes in a circle? There have been immigrant children on the US border and in Europe. Is that a Children's Crusade or Goth's at the Gate? Time goes in a circle.

Various parts of Jeremiah 30 may have been said to be fulfilled when Hebrews were allowed back from Babylon. They were kicked out again after Jesus in The Diaspora. Israel has been a state since 1948. Elements of Jeremiah 30 are currently being fulfilled.

1I am with you and will save you,' declares the LORD. 'Though I completely destroy all the nations among which I scatter you, I will not completely destroy you. I will discipline you but only in due measure; I will not let you go entirely unpunished.'(Jeremiah 30:11)

What is a Nation? It is a group of people who share a heritage, culture, language, religion, and so on. The Jews Prostituted themselves with foreign gods and foreign nations. God kicked them out into the nations. (Ezekiel 23) Ezekiel 23 is an example of Multiculturalism. Talmudic Jews often have promoted multiculturalism, and worked to break down various nations and nationalism which they fear? Given Talmudic Jews are being punished or disciplined by God, what did they do? They sowed corruption in the Body of Christ. Their sins hit some threshold. They are blind and in the dark without prophets and without God. In the West, many people doubt the survival of places like France and Sweden at this time and/or the stage has been set for Daniel 12?

One of the critizisms of Preterism, is that The Book of Revelations would have been written after some of the events the Book was prophecying. Given John of Patmos saw and understood "Nothing New Happens Under the Sun," he may have seen something and part of what was happening was a sign of the times. The concept of Nothing New Happens Under the Sun is a Form of Partial Preterism, but not Partial Preterism exactly.
 
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claninja

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There is an earth that will remain "forever".

Paul revealed its location below.


Gal 4:25 for this Hagar is Mount Sinai in Arabia, and corresponds to Jerusalem which now is, and is in bondage with her children—
Gal 4:26 but the Jerusalem above is free, which is the mother of us all.

I agree that the heavenly Jerusalem remains forever, but I don't believe the heavenly Jerusalem is earth.

Either you are confused, or Peter is confused in the passage below.

Either Peter was confused or modern day Christianity is confused about how to interpret apocalyptic language.

1 Peter 4:7 The end of all things is near. Therefore be clear-minded and sober, so you can pray.

Was Peter wrong that the end of all things was near?

You are quoting part of the passage, but ignoring the rest of it.
This is the mark of all false doctrines.

I would disagree. Quoting part of scripture and not quoting the rest of it is not the mark of false doctrines. Jesus quoted only parts of scripture all the time, without addressing other parts of it.
So considering Peter states the end of all things is near, and the literal heavens and earth didn't melt away in the 1st century, I don't interpret the passing of heavens and earth as literal.

Considering there are many "world ending" prophecies in the OT in regards to God judging nations like Babylon, and the 10 northern tribes, I keep my NT apocalyptic interpretation consistent with OT language.

If you believe this present rotten, sin-cursed world will last "forever", you have exposed one of the greatest errors of Full-Preterism.

I believe it will last as long as God sustains it. "forever" or "olam" is a good word for that.

Olam: long duration, antiquity, futurity

The gigantic nuclear furnace known as the sun, is converting its Hydrogen fuel into Helium, through the process of nuclear fusion.
In the future, the sun will swell into a red giant star and melt the surface of this planet, if things continue as they now are.
(Read Red Giants and White Dwarfs, by astronomer Robert Jastrow.)

I agree. It's been calculated that the sun will burn for around 5 billion more years. That's why I stated this present physical earth will last as long as God sustains it.

This place is not my home.

As Paul stated in Galatians chapter 4, my home is now above.

I absolutely agree. Heaven is our home
2 Corinthians 5:1 For we know that if the tent that is our earthly home is destroyed, we have a building from God, a house not made with hands, eternal in the heavens

Even when David was a king living in the physical promise land, he still believed he was a sojourner.
1 chronicles 29:15 For we are strangers before you and sojourners, as all our fathers were. Our days on the earth are like a shadow, and there is no abiding

This shows that heaven has always been our home, the true promise land.


 
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BABerean2

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I agree that the heavenly Jerusalem remains forever, but I don't believe the heavenly Jerusalem is earth.



Either Peter was confused or modern day Christianity is confused about how to interpret apocalyptic language.

1 Peter 4:7 The end of all things is near. Therefore be clear-minded and sober, so you can pray.

Was Peter wrong that the end of all things was near?



I would disagree. Quoting part of scripture and not quoting the rest of it is not the mark of false doctrines. Jesus quoted only parts of scripture all the time, without addressing other parts of it.
So considering Peter states the end of all things is near, and the literal heavens and earth didn't melt away in the 1st century, I don't interpret the passing of heavens and earth as literal.

Considering there are many "world ending" prophecies in the OT in regards to God judging nations like Babylon, and the 10 northern tribes, I keep my NT apocalyptic interpretation consistent with OT language.



I believe it will last as long as God sustains it. "forever" or "olam" is a good word for that.

Olam: long duration, antiquity, futurity



I agree. It's been calculated that the sun will burn for around 5 billion more years. That's why I stated this present physical earth will last as long as God sustains it.



I absolutely agree. Heaven is our home
2 Corinthians 5:1 For we know that if the tent that is our earthly home is destroyed, we have a building from God, a house not made with hands, eternal in the heavens

Even when David was a king living in the physical promise land, he still believed he was a sojourner.
1 chronicles 29:15 For we are strangers before you and sojourners, as all our fathers were. Our days on the earth are like a shadow, and there is no abiding

This shows that heaven has always been our home, the true promise land.


Do you think the New Jerusalem came down from heaven during 70 AD?


Rev_3:12 He who overcomes, I will make him a pillar in the temple of My God, and he shall go out no more. I will write on him the name of My God and the name of the city of My God, the New Jerusalem, which comes down out of heaven from My God. And I will write on him My new name.


Rev_21:2 Then I, John, saw the holy city, New Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.

.
 
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LittleLambofJesus

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Do you think the New Jerusalem came down from heaven during 70 AD?

Rev_3:12 He who overcomes, I will make him a pillar in the temple of My God, and he shall go out no more. I will write on him the name of My God and the name of the city of My God, the New Jerusalem, which comes down out of heaven from My God. And I will write on him My new name.

Rev_21:2 Then I, John, saw the holy city, New Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.
Oh, don' forget about the smoke of the Great City going up into the ages of the ages........Literal or Symbolic or other........

Is the GREAT CITY in Revelation symbolizing the LAKE OF FIRE?

Revelation 18:
9 The kings of the land, who committed sexual immorality and lived wantonly with her, will weep and wail over Her, when they look at the smoke of the firing<4451> of Her
18 and were crying, seeing the smoke of the firing<4451>of Her saying,
"What City is like to the great City"?

Revelation 19:3

And a second-time they have declared "allelouia!
and the Smoke of Her is ascending into the Ages of the Ages".



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BABerean2

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Oh, don' forget about the smoke of the Great City going up into the ages of the ages........Literal or Symbolic or other........

Is the GREAT CITY in Revelation symbolizing the LAKE OF FIRE?

Revelation 18:
9 The kings of the land, who committed sexual immorality and lived wantonly with her, will weep and wail over Her, when they look at the smoke of the firing<4451> of Her
18 and were crying, seeing the smoke of the firing<4451>of Her saying,
"What City is like to the great City"?

Revelation 19:3

And a second-time they have declared "allelouia!
and the Smoke of Her is ascending into the Ages of the Ages".



.


Another one of the biggest problems with Full-Preterism is the failure of the early Church to recognize the events of 70 AD as a complete fulfillment of the Book of Revelation, and the consummation of the New Heavens and New Earth.
If anyone can provide writings of the Early Church Fathers that say otherwise, please let us take a look at it. However, please provide the context of the quotation, also.

The doctrine also tends to claim the New Covenant did not come to complete fruition until 70 AD, when the temple was destroyed.
The word "now" in Hebrews 8:6, and Hebrews 10:18, as well as Christ's final words on the Cross prove otherwise.
The Apostle Paul never spoke about two different ways of salvation, between the time of Calvary and 70 AD.
God ripped the temple veil in half right after Christ uttered the words below.

Joh 19:30 So when Jesus had received the sour wine, He said, "It is finished!" And bowing His head, He gave up His spirit.

.
 
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claninja

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Do you think the New Jerusalem came down from heaven during 70 AD?

I don't believe the New Jerusalem is a literal city. I believe the New Jerusalem is the body of Christ, which exists on earth (his footstool) and in heaven (his throne).

Ezekiel 43:7 He said: “Son of man, this is the place of my throne and the place for the soles of my feet. This is where I will live among the Israelites forever

Acts 7:49 “ ‘Heaven is my throne, and the earth is my footstool.
 
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BABerean2

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I don't believe the New Jerusalem is a literal city. I believe the New Jerusalem is the body of Christ, which exists on earth (his footstool) and in heaven (his throne).

Ezekiel 43:7 He said: “Son of man, this is the place of my throne and the place for the soles of my feet. This is where I will live among the Israelites forever

Acts 7:49 “ ‘Heaven is my throne, and the earth is my footstool.


Do you think Peter was looking forward to the destruction of Jerusalem during 70 AD, in the passage below?

2Pe 3:10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night, in which the heavens will pass away with a great noise, and the elements will melt with fervent heat; both the earth and the works that are in it will be burned up.
2Pe 3:11 Therefore, since all these things will be dissolved, what manner of persons ought you to be in holy conduct and godliness,
2Pe 3:12 looking for and hastening the coming of the day of God, because of which the heavens will be dissolved, being on fire, and the elements will melt with fervent heat?
2Pe 3:13 Nevertheless we, according to His promise, look for new heavens and a new earth in which righteousness dwells.

Do you think Peter and other members of the early New Covenant Church had a celebration when they saw earthly Jerusalem burning?

Is their celebration recorded in the writings of the Early Church Fathers?

Or, did they weep over the destruction of the city?

Luk 19:41 Now as He drew near, He saw the city and wept over it,

Luk 19:42 saying, "If you had known, even you, especially in this your day, the things that make for your peace! But now they are hidden from your eyes.
Luk 19:43 For days will come upon you when your enemies will build an embankment around you, surround you and close you in on every side,
Luk 19:44 and level you, and your children within you, to the ground; and they will not leave in you one stone upon another, because you did not know the time of your visitation."
.
 
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LittleLambofJesus

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Is their celebration recorded in the writings of the Early Church Fathers?

Or, did they weep over the destruction of the city?

Luk 19:41 Now as He drew near, He saw the city and wept over it,

Luk 19:42 saying, "If you had known, even you, especially in this your day, the things that make for your peace! But now they are hidden from your eyes.
.
Well, we know Jesus said this to the "daughters of Jerusalem" on His way to the Cross

Luke 23:27
Followed yet to Him a vast multitude of the people and of women were.
And grieved<2875> and wailed/eqrhnoun <2354> (5707) over Him.
28 Being turned yet toward them, Jesus said "Daughters of Jerusalem!
no be lamenting
/klaiete <2799> (5720) over Me, moreover for yourselves be-lamenting/klaiete <2799> (5720), and upon the children of ye.
[Isaiah 4:4/Reve 18:19]

Revelation 18:9
and lamenting<2799 over Her, and grieving<2875> themselves over Her, shall the kings of the earth,
who with Her did commit whoredom and did revel, when they may see the smoke of Her burning,

Daughters of Jerusalem

Ellicott's Commentary for English Readers
(28) Daughters of Jerusalem.--
It is characteristic of the tenderness of our Lord's sympathy that these were the first words recorded as coming from His lips after He left the presence of Pilate. The mocking, the scourging, the spitting, had all been borne in silence. Now He speaks, and His thoughts are of the far-off sufferings of others, rather than of those that were then falling upon Himself.

Pulpit Commentary
Verse 28. - But Jesus turning unto them said, Daughters of Jerusalem.

This address to them by the Lord indicates that the majority at least of this company of sympathizing women belonged to the holy city. Weep not for me, but weep for yourselves, and for your children. Again here, as on the cross, the utter unselfishness of the dying Master comes out. His thoughts in his darkest hour were never of himself. Here, apparently, for the first time since his last interrogation before Pilate does our Lord break silence. Stier beautifully calls this the first part of the Passion sermon of Christ.

The second part consisted of the "seven words on the cross." "Weep," said our Lord here It is noticeable that it is the only time in his public teaching that he is reported to have told his listeners to weep. "The same lips whose gracious breath had dried so many tears now cry on the way to the cross, 'Weep for yourselves, and for your children.'"

Matthew Henry Commentary
23:26-31

We have here the blessed Jesus, the Lamb of God, led as a lamb to the slaughter, to the sacrifice. Though many reproached and reviled him, yet some pitied him. But the death of Christ was his victory and triumph over his enemies: it was our deliverance, the purchase of eternal life for us. Therefore weep not for him, but let us weep for our own sins, and the sins of our children, which caused his death; and weep for fear of the miseries we shall bring upon ourselves, if we slight his love, and reject his grace. If God delivered him up to such sufferings as these, because he was made a sacrifice for sin, what will he do with sinners themselves, who make themselves a dry tree, a corrupt and wicked generation, and good for nothing! The bitter sufferings of our Lord Jesus should make us stand in awe of the justice of God. The best saints, compared with Christ, are dry trees; if he suffer, why may not they expect to suffer? And what then shall the damnation of sinners be! Even the sufferings of Christ preach terror to obstinate transgressors.
 
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claninja

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Do you think Peter was looking forward to the destruction of Jerusalem during 70 AD, in the passage below?

2Pe 3:10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night, in which the heavens will pass away with a great noise, and the elements will melt with fervent heat; both the earth and the works that are in it will be burned up.
2Pe 3:11 Therefore, since all these things will be dissolved, what manner of persons ought you to be in holy conduct and godliness,
2Pe 3:12 looking for and hastening the coming of the day of God, because of which the heavens will be dissolved, being on fire, and the elements will melt with fervent heat?
2Pe 3:13 Nevertheless we, according to His promise, look for new heavens and a new earth in which righteousness dwells.

Do you think Peter and other members of the early New Covenant Church had a celebration when they saw earthly Jerusalem burning?

I think the early church was looking forward to rest from Jewish Persecution.

Galatians 4:28-29 Now you, brothers and sisters, like Isaac, are children of promise. At that time the son born according to the flesh persecuted the son born by the power of the Spirit. It is the same now.

1 Thessalonians 1:14-15 For you, brothers and sisters, became imitators of God’s churches in Judea, which are in Christ Jesus: You suffered from your own people the same things those churches suffered from the Jews who killed the Lord Jesus and the prophets and also drove us out. They displease God and are hostile to everyone

Revelation 2:9-10 I know your afflictions and your poverty—yet you are rich! I know about the slander of those who say they are Jews and are not, but are a synagogue of Satan. Do not be afraid of what you are about to suffer


Acts 24:1 Five days later the high priest Ananias went down to Caesarea with some of the elders and a lawyer named Tertullus, and they brought their charges against Paul before the governor.


Is their celebration recorded in the writings of the Early Church Fathers?

Or, did they weep over the destruction of the city?

Luk 19:41 Now as He drew near, He saw the city and wept over it,

Luk 19:42 saying, "If you had known, even you, especially in this your day, the things that make for your peace! But now they are hidden from your eyes.
Luk 19:43 For days will come upon you when your enemies will build an embankment around you, surround you and close you in on every side,

Luk 19:44 and level you, and your children within you, to the ground; and they will not leave in you one stone upon another, because you did not know the time of your visitation."


That I'm not sure of. I don't know if the early church fathers celebrated or wept over the destruction of Jerusalem. I would have to read over the early church father writings. However, I do know the beliefs of the church fathers were all over the place as it is today. Some church fathers believed in a literal earthly 1000 year reign, some believed the 70th week was completed in 70ad, some believe Jesus lived to 50 years old, etc.....

the history of early church fathers, is not a strength for me. I do need to study them more. Do you know of any early Jewish church fathers that wrote on the destruction of Jerusalem?
 
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claninja

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Another one of the biggest problems with Full-Preterism is the failure of the early Church to recognize the events of 70 AD as a complete fulfillment of the Book of Revelation, and the consummation of the New Heavens and New Earth.
If anyone can provide writings of the Early Church Fathers that say otherwise, please let us take a look at it. However, please provide the context of the quotation, also.


The doctrine also tends to claim the New Covenant did not come to complete fruition until 70 AD, when the temple was destroyed.

Is the resurrection a part of the new covenant?

The word "now" in Hebrews 8:6, and Hebrews 10:18, as well as Christ's final words on the Cross prove otherwise.
The Apostle Paul never spoke about two different ways of salvation, between the time of Calvary and 70 AD.
God ripped the temple veil in half right after Christ uttered the words below.


Joh 19:30 So when Jesus had received the sour wine, He said, "It is finished!" And bowing His head, He gave up His spirit.

I don't know of any preterist that believes there are 2 ways of salvation. I don't know of any preterist that believes that following the old covenant can lead to salvation.
 
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BABerean2

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Is the resurrection a part of the new covenant?

Yes. Both of them.

There are two resurrections revealed by Christ in John chapter 5.

The first is the spiritual resurrection from the dead, found below.
I was dead, but now I am alive, because of my faith in Christ. (spiritually)


Joh 5:24 "Most assuredly, I say to you, he who hears My word and believes in Him who sent Me has everlasting life, and shall not come into judgment, but has passed from death into life.


The second resurrection in the chapter is the "hour" when the bodily resurrection and judgment of "all" the dead occurs in the passage below.

Joh 5:27 and has given Him authority to execute judgment also, because He is the Son of Man.
Joh 5:28 Do not marvel at this; for the hour is coming in which all who are in the graves will hear His voice
Joh 5:29 and come forth—those who have done good, to the resurrection of life, and those who have done evil, to the resurrection of condemnation.
Joh 5:30 I can of Myself do nothing. As I hear, I judge; and My judgment is righteous, because I do not seek My own will but the will of the Father who sent Me. (Based on 2 Timothy 4:1, this occurs at Christ's future Second Coming, when He will judge both the living and the dead.)



Full-Preterism acknowledges the first resurrection, but denies the second resurrection in the passage.

Or they attempt to also spiritualize the second resurrection to make their doctrine work.

They cannot accept the possibility that we will be physically resurrected from the dead in the same way that Christ was resurrected from the dead.
This is one of the chief errors of the doctrine.

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