Was Satan the snake in Genesis?

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"I thought Satan was the ruler of the earth (in some sense)?"

What about Matthew 4:
"the devil took him to a very high mountain and showed him all the kingdoms of the world and their splendor. “All this I will give you,” he said, “if you will bow down and worship me.”
Jesus said to him, “Away from me, Satan! For it is written: ‘Worship the Lord your God, and serve him only.’”

It looks like the devil rules the kingdoms of the world - Jesus didn't disagree with the devil on that.
The reason for 1 John 5:19 is, as you have said, the enmity is between a Christian man and Satan rather than human and God (if they have been born of God: 1 John 3:7-10, John 3:19-21).

Whereas if Jesus had gone under the authority of Satan, then His disciples would have been limited by that subjection (eg: John 13:16, Proverbs 25:26). God's way was difficult and painful for Him, but it is the way of salvation, to give the final victory over the serpent (which became a dragon toward the end).

Seeing as you are looking at the spiritual sense of the word, consider Leviathan! God says it is a thing that we cannot tame .. and yet He is able to put a hook in it's jaw and lead it away. Such is the nature of the fallen: They cannot be reasoned with, and they can only be led by coercion (ie: not of love or of genuine goodwill, only of sensation).

Ephesians 2:1-2 also shows that while we were in the world (ie: fallen, enslaved by our passions so as to be so led about as with a hook in the jaw), it was the way of the world that ruled us (glamorising sin: eg. sex, drugs, rock'n'roll - fun and fancy things).

When we are born again, it is the love of the truth and the desire to do righteousness that motivates us (1 John 3:7-10), but then St. Paul also shows that there is a type of Christian that has become a "son of disobedience" - saying that they have not obeyed God's direction (Romans 6:16, John 14:15-16). He says that the spirit operating in them is the same spirit that is ruling the unregenerate, therefore they are not of The Holy Spirit. (That explains why the churches are not all showing the character of Christ).

St. John wrote that one who says he has come to know Him but does not keep His commandments, is a liar (ie: a son of the 'father of lies' - the devil - see 1 Timothy 4:1-2). In 1 John 2:22, he goes on to say that the one who lies that way, who does not yield to acknowledge what Jesus commands to them, they do not receive Jesus as Christ: they are an antichrist. When they say that they "confess with their mouth and believe in their hearts that Jesus is Lord and God raised Him from the dead", what they really say is "Jesus will be Lord one day and God has taken Him away from us until the end" - that is the perspective that the doctrines of the antichrist spirit are teaching. We share teachings toward Matthew 18:20 though.
 
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disciple Clint

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Genesis talks about an enmity between men and snakes and that is true. I'm not sure this can be said of men and Satan... a book about Predestination I read says something like that people are unable to choose God - he must choose them. It seems that there is more of an enmity between men and God (not fully mutual) than men and Satan. There is an enmity between Satan and Christian men though. So I don't think the curse of the snake fully fits with the gospel message.
Hi John, satan isn't just an opponent of Christian men he is interested in the death of all men even those who think they are serving him. God on the other hand is interested in giving life to all men, it is His desire that all men should be saved onto eternal life (1 Tim 2_4). God places before us life and death and He encourages us to choose life (Deut 30:15-20). Blessings
 
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Brian Mcnamee

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Hi in Ezekiel 28 we have a passage that talks about the king of Tyre who can only be describing Satan in this passage. It describes a fallen angel who was in the garden of Eden. This passage may have several layers of meaning but certainly puts this player on the seen in the Garden of Eden. This is a historical perspective and not an allegorical one.
11 Moreover the word of the LORD came to me, saying, 12 “Son of man, take up a lamentation for the king of Tyre, and say to him, ‘Thus says the Lord GOD:
“You were the seal of perfection,
Full of wisdom and perfect in beauty.
13 You were in Eden, the garden of God;
Every precious stone was your covering:
The sardius, topaz, and diamond,
Beryl, onyx, and jasper,
Sapphire, turquoise, and emerald with gold.
The workmanship of your timbrels and pipes
Was prepared for you on the day you were created.
14 “You were the anointed cherub who covers;
I established you;
You were on the holy mountain of God;
You walked back and forth in the midst of fiery stones.
15 You were perfect in your ways from the day you were created,
Till iniquity was found in you.
16 “By the abundance of your trading
You became filled with violence within,
And you sinned;
Therefore I cast you as a profane thing
Out of the mountain of God;
And I destroyed you, O covering cherub,
From the midst of the fiery stones.
17 “Your heart was lifted up because of your beauty;
You corrupted your wisdom for the sake of your splendor;
I cast you to the ground,
I laid you before kings,
That they might gaze at you.
18 “You defiled your sanctuaries
By the multitude of your iniquities,
By the iniquity of your trading;
Therefore I brought fire from your midst;
It devoured you,
And I turned you to ashes upon the earth
In the sight of all who saw you.
19 All who knew you among the peoples are astonished at you;
You have become a horror,
And shall be no more forever.” ’ ”
 
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eleos1954

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It seems that the author of Genesis is saying that there was a talking snake - it talked not because it was possessed, but because "the serpent was more crafty than any of the wild animals the Lord God had made". Also Matthew 10:16 says "...be as wise as snakes..." So the intelligence seems to come from the animal rather than from the devil using it like a puppet.

2 Corinthians 11:3 says "...Eve was deceived by the serpent’s cunning...". 2 Corinthians mentions Satan 3 times (2:11, 11:14, 12:7) - if the serpent was Satan it should have said so.

1 Timothy 2:14 says that the woman was deceived - it doesn't mention by who, though 1 Timothy mentions Satan in other places (1:20, 5:15).

Also the animal is punished: "Cursed are you above all livestock and all wild animals! You will crawl on your belly and you will eat dust all the days of your life".

BTW serpents aren't always bad - Numbers 21:9:
"...Moses made a bronze snake and put it up on a pole. Then when anyone was bitten by a snake and looked at the bronze snake, they lived."

John 3:14 even says that Jesus is like that snake:
"Just as Moses lifted up the snake in the wilderness, so the Son of Man must be lifted up"

I think one of the only passages that supports the idea that Satan was the talking snake is Revelation which calls Satan the "ancient serpent".

Some Christians say that the curse of the snake contains the gospel message but I'm not sure that has direct Biblical support.

I think it is very common for Christians to believe that Satan was the serpent - after all it might sound a bit ridiculous for there to be an intelligent talking snake.


Mark 5

... 9 “My name is Legion,” he replied, “for we are many.” 10 And he begged Jesus again and again not to send them out of the area.

11 A large herd of pigs was feeding on the nearby hillside. 12 The demons begged Jesus, “Send us among the pigs; allow us to go into them.” 13 He gave them permission, and the impure spirits came out and went into the pigs. The herd, about two thousand in number, rushed down the steep bank into the lake and were drowned.

So God placing Satan into a snake ... yeah I would say so ... and the bible says so.
 
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The animal that beguiled Eve in the Garden was probably a dragon.

IF it spoke her language, then that's how things were back then.

But if it just hissed and barked at Eve, then Eve may have had the gift of interpretation of tongues.

Then too, maybe Satan, after entering the dragon, altered its voicebox to that of a human.

But if that was the case, Eve didn't seem too surprised.

For my money, I believe it was a dragon that made dragon sounds that Eve heard in her own language.
 
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ewq1938

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The animal that beguiled Eve in the Garden was probably a dragon.


A serpent and dragon are the same thing in scripture.

There was no literal animal talking to Eve...it was Satan, who is symbolized by a serpent or dragon (which is a serpent).

G1404
δράκων
drakōn
Thayer Definition:
1) a dragon, a great serpent, a name for Satan
Part of Speech: noun masculine
A Related Word by Thayer’s/Strong’s Number: probably from an alternate form of derkomai (to look)
Citing in TDNT: 2:281, 186
 
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A serpent and dragon are the same thing in scripture.
What's this then?

Isaiah 27:1 In that day the LORD with his sore and great and strong sword shall punish leviathan the piercing serpent, even leviathan that crooked serpent; and he shall slay the dragon that is in the sea.
 
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JohnClay

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....There was no literal animal talking to Eve...it was Satan, who is symbolized by a serpent or dragon (which is a serpent)....
It says "Now the serpent was more crafty than any of the wild animals the Lord God had made."
I think that implies that the serpent is also one of the wild animals God made.

"So the Lord God said to the serpent, “Because you have done this,
“Cursed are you above all livestock
and all wild animals!"

Again, it seems to say that the serpent is a wild animal.
 
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ewq1938

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It says "Now the serpent was more crafty than any of the wild animals the Lord God had made."
I think that implies that the serpent is also one of the wild animals God made.

"So the Lord God said to the serpent, “Because you have done this,
“Cursed are you above all livestock
and all wild animals!"

Again, it seems to say that the serpent is a wild animal.


Apparently not:

Rev 12:9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.


Satan is only a symbolic "wild animal".
 
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Apparently not:

Rev 12:9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.

Satan is only a symbolic "wild animal".
Though I disagree, maybe it is like what many Christians believe - a snake was involved, but Satan possessed it.
 
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ewq1938

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Though I disagree, maybe it is like what many Christians believe - a snake was involved, but Satan possessed it.

At least we know it wasn't just a "snake". It was satan...I believe it was himself and a serpent analogy was used.
 
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aiki

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It seems that the author of Genesis is saying that there was a talking snake - it talked not because it was possessed, but because "the serpent was more crafty than any of the wild animals the Lord God had made". Also Matthew 10:16 says "...be as wise as snakes..." So the intelligence seems to come from the animal rather than from the devil using it like a puppet.

If one can accept the Biggest Miracle of All which is the creation of the universe from nothing, then a talking snake is no biggie. I've always wondered why believers can accept creatio ex nihilo but balk at a snake that talks. Seems to me like "straining at a gnat but swallowing a camel."

I have no idea how a serpent was able to talk. Maybe what the Bible means by "serpent" and what I understand a serpent to be are two very different things. Who knows? Would it make an important difference to anything if I could explain how a snake was able to talk? Anyway, I think the serpent likely was used as tool of communication by the devil. We see demons controlling people and speaking through them a number of times in the New Testament. (e.g. Mark 5:1-13)
 
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SkyWriting

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It seems that the author of Genesis is saying that there was a talking snake - it talked not because it was possessed, but because "the serpent was more crafty than any of the wild animals the Lord God had made". Also Matthew 10:16 says "...be as wise as snakes..." So the intelligence seems to come from the animal rather than from the devil using it like a puppet.

2 Corinthians 11:3 says "...Eve was deceived by the serpent’s cunning...". 2 Corinthians mentions Satan 3 times (2:11, 11:14, 12:7) - if the serpent was Satan it should have said so.

1 Timothy 2:14 says that the woman was deceived - it doesn't mention by who, though 1 Timothy mentions Satan in other places (1:20, 5:15).

Also the animal is punished: "Cursed are you above all livestock and all wild animals! You will crawl on your belly and you will eat dust all the days of your life".

BTW serpents aren't always bad - Numbers 21:9:
"...Moses made a bronze snake and put it up on a pole. Then when anyone was bitten by a snake and looked at the bronze snake, they lived."

John 3:14 even says that Jesus is like that snake:
"Just as Moses lifted up the snake in the wilderness, so the Son of Man must be lifted up"

I think one of the only passages that supports the idea that Satan was the talking snake is Revelation which calls Satan the "ancient serpent".

Some Christians say that the curse of the snake contains the gospel message but I'm not sure that has direct Biblical support.

I think it is very common for Christians to believe that Satan was the serpent - after all it might sound a bit ridiculous for there to be an intelligent talking snake.


There were a number of odd things in the Garden. God was walking there. Man was kicked out of Paradise and we are not there now.
 
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Doctor.Sphinx

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Though I disagree, maybe it is like what many Christians believe - a snake was involved, but Satan possessed it.
This is what I believe. It explains why the serpent was punished to eat dust and crawl on its belly - allowing itself to be used as a tool of the devil. But also why Jesus can say that Satan is the father of liars and murderers - Satan possessed the serpent to lie to Eve, to kill her, her husband, and all future generations.

(I like your avatar, by the way. Wish there was a 2nd Napoleon Dynamite, but as good as the first).
 
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JohnClay

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...(I like your avatar, by the way. Wish there was a 2nd Napoleon Dynamite, but as good as the first).
BTW there is a cartoon that had 6 episodes:
MV5BODg4NzQ5NzcxOF5BMl5BanBnXkFtZTgwMDAyNDIyMjE@._V1_.jpg
 
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It says "Now the serpent was more crafty than any of the wild animals the Lord God had made."
I think that implies that the serpent is also one of the wild animals God made.

"So the Lord God said to the serpent, “Because you have done this,
“Cursed are you above all livestock
and all wild animals!"

Again, it seems to say that the serpent is a wild animal.
Hi there JohnClay,

When I saw you make this comment, I wanted to show you that you've made a mistake in your logic through the reading of it, but then it led me to ask myself for a better explanation of the root word "nā·ḥāš". So I have been in a conversation with a friend who studies the Hebrew language a bit, and I asked for his ideas about what he sees in the pictograph spelling of the word (and he's explained to me some interesting things about that too).

Nachash: נחש

Here's what he said:
Vicomte13 said:
Nachash is a word whose root goes three different ways depending on whether the word is a noun (which it usually means "snake" in Hebrew), a verb which means deceiver, and an adjective that means bronze.

Shades of the "bronze serpent"! Or perhaps we may leave out the bit about "snake" and just read "deceiver", though that would be treating the verb as a noun.

What do the pictures say?

There are three: N (נ), Hh (ח), and Sh (ש).
Nun is the seed. It's picture is a seed. So, this is a thing from which things will grow.

Hh - Hhet or Chet - this is a picture of a wall of a tent that walls off the inside from the outer light or darkness. The wall blocks light. (the word "dark" in Hebrew HhoseHh, has two walls in it and a division also - this is the opposite of "AWR" - "light" or "order")

Sh - Shin - is the two front teeth, meaning cut or divide into two.

So, we have here the deceiver who plants the seed that sets up the wall that divides.
Which is exactly what the Nachash does: he lies, he divides man from himself, man from God, man and woman are set at odds, and he plants the seed that becomes greater and greater division.

Was the nachash a snake, a physical snake? Well, the problem with that, obviously, is that God condemns the nachash to crawl on its belly and eat dirt all its days, and the days of its offspring. Snakes don't eat dirt.

That's the whole problem with reading Genesis, or any of the other imaged language of the Bible literally - you end up having to switch back and forth between saying "Well, that's imagery, but THAT's to be taken literally" - a differentiation the text does not tell you to make.

Jesus didn't use the word nachash in the Gospels, but the word "ophis", which is Greek. This word was used by the Greek translators of the LXX to render the serpent of the garden as "ophis". Jesus uses this word to refer to the dragon of old - an ophis, and to snakes, "you will tread on ophis and scorpions".

The Nachash was certainly a deceiver, and may have been bronze or at least shining in appearance. It was not a garden variety snake.

.. and the error I see in your logic above, is that you have inserted the word "other" where it doesn't exist.

If the text had said "nachash was more cunning than any other beast of the field" then you'd be correct to read it the way you have done. But all it says is that there is no beast of the field that was more cunning than nachash .. which doesn't necessarily imply that nachash was a beast of the field, just that he was more cunning than every beast of the field.

.. and don't go thinking that it is implying that the human was a beast of the field! .. because they are set apart from the beasts of the field in chapter 1, where God has blessed the fish, the birds and the humans, but did not bless the beasts of the field.
 
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It was the second-century Christian martyr, Justin of Samaria, who was first to argue that Satan appeared as a serpent to tempt Adam and Eve to disobey God.

I wonder how he knew this.

He likely read the book of Revelation.
 
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.. and don't go thinking that it is implying that the human was a beast of the field! .. because they are set apart from the beasts of the field in chapter 1, where God has blessed the fish, the birds and the humans, but did not bless the beasts of the field.
I didn't realise that about the beasts of the field...

BTW why is the serpent linked to wild animals again in Genesis 3:14? Why does the entire curse for the serpent make sense to apply to snakes when you're saying the serpent wasn't even an animal?
 
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