Ellen White's Sabbath in Eden is Not Biblical

EJ M · Nov 4, 2018

ewq1938 said:
Who Is Michael The Archangel? | Free Book Library | Amazing Facts

"So Michael, the captain of the Lord's host, or army, is another title for Jesus."

No,
Jesus is Lord, not the captain of the Lord's army
Please, He will never be downsized to an angel.

ewq1938 · Nov 4, 2018

EJ M said:
No,
Jesus is Lord, not the captain of the Lord's army
Please, He will never be downsized to an angel.

I agree but someone else asked for official SDA site info that proves SDA's believe Michael the Archangel is Jesus Christ by a different name.

Yeshua HaDerekh · Nov 4, 2018

Dale said:
The word "Sabbath" does not appear in the Bible until Exodus Sixteen.

The word Shabbat is clearly written in Hebrew in Genesis 2...

ewq1938 · Nov 4, 2018

Yeshua HaDerekh said:
The word Shabbat is clearly written in Hebrew in Genesis 2...

I believe he means it does not appear again until Exodus proving no one knew of the Sabbath until God told people about it in Exodus.

Yeshua HaDerekh · Nov 4, 2018

ewq1938 said:
I believe he means it does not appear again until Exodus proving no one knew of the Sabbath until God told people about it in Exodus.

Interesting that it says REMEMBER only in that one commandment.

ewq1938 · Nov 4, 2018

Yeshua HaDerekh said:
Interesting that it says REMEMBER only in that one commandment.

It's not very interesting actually.

Yeshua HaDerekh · Nov 4, 2018

ewq1938 said:
It's not very interesting actually.

It is to me

StephenDiscipleofYHWH · Nov 4, 2018

ewq1938 said:
Who Is Michael The Archangel? | Free Book Library | Amazing Facts

"So Michael, the captain of the Lord's host, or army, is another title for Jesus."

Thank you for your help I will look into this further.

God bless and guide you

EJ M · Nov 4, 2018

Dale said:
It is difficult to exaggerate Ellen White's obsession with the Sabbath.

"Had the Sabbath always been sacredly observed, there could never have been an atheist or an idolater."

Ellen White, Conflict of the Ages, Introduction: Chapter 29: Satan's Enmity Against the Law

(Kindle Location 5383-85)

Does anyone believe this?

Nope
Many Jews are atheist or agnostic and keep the Sabbath better than most SDA s.
Don't kindle a fire, don't buy or sell, etc.

Dale · Nov 5, 2018

How important is the Sabbath in the Old Testament? Maybe not as important as you might think.

"It is notable that the Sabbath is not mentioned in the Psalms (except in the heading of the 92nd), nor in Proverbs, nor in Job. The Deuteronomic body of legislation does not discuss it after its incorporation in the Decalogue."

Source:
The quote is found under Sabbath.
Harper's Bible Dictionary, Ed. Madeleine S. Miller and J. Lane Miller
NY: Harper & Row, 1973

Dale · Nov 5, 2018

StephenDiscipleofYHWH said:
The Pope tried to change the Sabbath day, thinking to change laws and times(Daniel 7:25), but no man has the power to change the Sabbath day. Only the Lord has this power but no other day was spoken of by him besides the seventh day(Hebrews 4:8-9)

Where did you get Michael becoming Christ from? Could you show me this belief of theirs from their website? Or from one of their official publications?

The story of the Pope changing the Sabbath is completely spurious. I'll answer the question about Michael.

Ellen White identifies Michael as both "the Captain of the Lord's host" and as "the Angel of Jehovah." That apparently makes Michael the "angel of the Lord" mentioned several times in the OT.

"Again: Christ is called the Word of God. John 1:1-3. He is so called because God gave His revelations to man in all ages through Christ. It was His Spirit that inspired the prophets. 1 Peter 1:10, 11. He was revealed to them as the Angel of Jehovah, the Captain of the Lord's host, Michael the Archangel."

--under Notes to the Volume
White, Ellen G.. CONFLICT OF THE AGES: THE FIVE BOOKS. Patriarchs And Prophets; Prophets And Kings; The Desire Of Ages; The Acts Of The Apostles; The Great Controversy (Timeless Wisdom Collection) (Kindle Locations 48768-48770). Business and Leadership Publishing. Kindle Edition.

EJ M · Nov 5, 2018

Dale said:
The story of the Pope changing the Sabbath is completely spurious. I'll answer the question about Michael.

Ellen White identifies Michael as both "the Captain of the Lord's host" and as "the Angel of Jehovah." That apparently makes Michael the "angel of the Lord" mentioned several times in the OT.

"Again: Christ is called the Word of God. John 1:1-3. He is so called because God gave His revelations to man in all ages through Christ. It was His Spirit that inspired the prophets. 1 Peter 1:10, 11. He was revealed to them as the Angel of Jehovah, the Captain of the Lord's host, Michael the Archangel."

--under Notes to the Volume
White, Ellen G.. CONFLICT OF THE AGES: THE FIVE BOOKS. Patriarchs And Prophets; Prophets And Kings; The Desire Of Ages; The Acts Of The Apostles; The Great Controversy (Timeless Wisdom Collection) (Kindle Locations 48768-48770). Business and Leadership Publishing. Kindle Edition.

Thanks,
Seems like no one can argue that SDA s believe and teach Michael the archangel somehow morphed into Jesus.
I firmly believe Jesus Christ is Lord of lords and King of kings, not an angel, never was, never will be. I still worry about SDAs being Michaelians, not Christians.

mmksparbud · Nov 5, 2018

EJ M said:
Thanks,
Seems like no one can argue that SDA s believe and teach Michael the archangel somehow morphed into Jesus.
I firmly believe Jesus Christ is Lord of lords and King of kings, not an angel, never was, never will be. I still worry about SDAs being Michaelians, not Christians.

Jesus never was an angel, we do not teach that Jesus was ever a created angel!---And we are not the only protestants to believe this.

Michael--From the Hebrew name מִיכָאֵל (Mikha'el) meaning "who is like God?". This is a rhetorical question, implying no person is like God. Michael is one of the seven archangels in Hebrew tradition and the only one identified as an archangel in the Bible.

The word "angel" means messenger. Michael means --chief of the messengers who is like God.

Exo 3:2 And the angel of the LORD appeared unto him in a flame of fire out of the midst of a bush: and he looked, and, behold, the bush burned with fire, and the bush was not consumed.
Exo 3:3 And Moses said, I will now turn aside, and see this great sight, why the bush is not burnt.
Exo 3:4 And when the LORD saw that he turned aside to see, God called unto him out of the midst of the bush, and said, Moses, Moses. And he said, Here am I.
Exo 3:5 And he said, Draw not nigh hither: put off thy shoes from off thy feet, for the place whereon thou standest is holy ground.

Rev_12:7 And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,

No angel can make anything Holy--the angel of the Lord who appeared to Moses was Jesus--God. None other can make anything Holy. His angels--angels do not belong to other angels. Jesus is the Prince of the Angels, the Chief of Angels, the commander in Chief of the angles for He is the Chief of all of god's messengers and the greatest of the messengers from God. He came to bring us the Good News.

Dan_10:13 But the prince of the kingdom of Persia withstood me one and twenty days: but, lo, Michael, one of the chief princes, came to help me; and I remained there with the kings of Persia.
Dan_10:21 But I will shew thee that which is noted in the scripture of truth: and there is none that holdeth with me in these things, but Michael your prince.
Dan_12:1 And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book.

Isa_9:6 For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.
Dan 8:11 Yea, he magnified himself even to the prince of the host, and by him the daily sacrifice was taken away, and the place of his sanctuary was cast down.

Dan_8:25 And through his policy also he shall cause craft to prosper in his hand; and he shall magnify himself in his heart, and by peace shall destroy many: he shall also stand up against the Prince of princes; but he shall be broken without hand.
Dan_9:25 Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks: the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times.
Act 3:14 But ye denied the Holy One and the Just, and desired a murderer to be granted unto you;
Act 3:15 And killed the Prince of life, whom God hath raised from the dead; whereof we are witnesses.
Act_5:31 Him hath God exalted with his right hand to be a Prince and a Saviour, for to give repentance to Israel, and forgiveness of sins.
Rev_1:5 And from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, and the first begotten of the dead, and the prince of the kings of the earth. Unto him that loved us, and washed us from our sins in his own blood,

Dictionaries - Easton's Bible Dictionary - Archangel
Archangel [N] http://www.biblestudytools.com/dictionaries/bakers-evangelical-dictionary/archangel.html
( 1 Thessalonians 4:16 ; Jude 1:9 ), the prince of the angels.

Chief angel.

For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the ARCHANGEL, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first. ( 1 Thessalonians 1:1 Job 4:16 )
Word forms: plural archangels
countable noun
In the Jewish, Christian, and Muslim religions, an archangel is an angel of the highest rank.
COBUILD Advanced English Dictionary.
archangel in British
(ˈɑːkˌeɪndʒəl )
noun
1.
a principal angel, a member of the order ranking immediately above the angels in medieval angelology
Word Origin and History for archangel
n.
late 12c., from Old French archangel (12c.) or directly from Late Latin archangelus , from Greek arkhangelos "chief angel," from arkh- "chief, first" (see archon) + angelos (see angel). Replaced Old English heah encgel .

EJ M · Nov 5, 2018

mmksparbud said:
Jesus never was an angel, we do not teach that Jesus was ever a created angel!---And we are not the only protestants to believe this.

Michael--From the Hebrew name מִיכָאֵל (Mikha'el) meaning "who is like God?". This is a rhetorical question, implying no person is like God. Michael is one of the seven archangels in Hebrew tradition and the only one identified as an archangel in the Bible.

The word "angel" means messenger. Michael means --chief of the messengers who is like God.

Exo 3:2 And the angel of the LORD appeared unto him in a flame of fire out of the midst of a bush: and he looked, and, behold, the bush burned with fire, and the bush was not consumed.
Exo 3:3 And Moses said, I will now turn aside, and see this great sight, why the bush is not burnt.
Exo 3:4 And when the LORD saw that he turned aside to see, God called unto him out of the midst of the bush, and said, Moses, Moses. And he said, Here am I.
Exo 3:5 And he said, Draw not nigh hither: put off thy shoes from off thy feet, for the place whereon thou standest is holy ground.

Rev_12:7 And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,

No angel can make anything Holy--the angel of the Lord who appeared to Moses was Jesus--God. None other can make anything Holy. His angels--angels do not belong to other angels. Jesus is the Prince of the Angels, the Chief of Angels, the commander in Chief of the angles for He is the Chief of all of god's messengers and the greatest of the messengers from God. He came to bring us the Good News.

Dan_10:13 But the prince of the kingdom of Persia withstood me one and twenty days: but, lo, Michael, one of the chief princes, came to help me; and I remained there with the kings of Persia.
Dan_10:21 But I will shew thee that which is noted in the scripture of truth: and there is none that holdeth with me in these things, but Michael your prince.
Dan_12:1 And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book.

Isa_9:6 For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.
Dan 8:11 Yea, he magnified himself even to the prince of the host, and by him the daily sacrifice was taken away, and the place of his sanctuary was cast down.

Dan_8:25 And through his policy also he shall cause craft to prosper in his hand; and he shall magnify himself in his heart, and by peace shall destroy many: he shall also stand up against the Prince of princes; but he shall be broken without hand.
Dan_9:25 Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks: the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times.
Act 3:14 But ye denied the Holy One and the Just, and desired a murderer to be granted unto you;
Act 3:15 And killed the Prince of life, whom God hath raised from the dead; whereof we are witnesses.
Act_5:31 Him hath God exalted with his right hand to be a Prince and a Saviour, for to give repentance to Israel, and forgiveness of sins.
Rev_1:5 And from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, and the first begotten of the dead, and the prince of the kings of the earth. Unto him that loved us, and washed us from our sins in his own blood,

Dictionaries - Easton's Bible Dictionary - Archangel
Archangel [N]
( 1 Thessalonians 4:16 ; Jude 1:9 ), the prince of the angels.

Chief angel.

For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the ARCHANGEL, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first. ( 1 Thessalonians 1:1 Job 4:16 )
Word forms: plural archangels
countable noun
In the Jewish, Christian, and Muslim religions, an archangel is an angel of the highest rank.
COBUILD Advanced English Dictionary.
archangel in British
(ˈɑːkˌeɪndʒəl )
noun
1.
a principal angel, a member of the order ranking immediately above the angels in medieval angelology
Word Origin and History for archangel
n.
late 12c., from Old French archangel (12c.) or directly from Late Latin archangelus , from Greek arkhangelos "chief angel," from arkh- "chief, first" (see archon) + angelos (see angel). Replaced Old English heah encgel .

Based only on the Bible, (not men's theology) specifically Heb 1, I remain firmly convinced Jesus Christ is my Lord and my God,
Never was an angel, never will be. I believe Michael's name, Who is like God, is a statement, not a question.
I believe Jesus created Michael (Col 1, Heb 1) and all the other angels as well.
He is not like God, He is God! Why would Jesus say to satan, The Lord rebuke thee, when He is the Lord? (Jude, verse 9) Jesus did not say that, Michael did. What is to be gained by claiming Jesus is Michael? The Word of God makes no such claim.
I remain very concerned those attempting to downsize Jesus are Michaelians, not Christians.

Dale · Nov 5, 2018

Richard Ruhling said:
Oops--Probably Ellen White was right in saying the patriarchs kept the Sabbath because Gen 26:5 says Abraham obeyed my statutes and kept my commandments and laws."
And since Moses wrote both Genesis and Exodus, he knew they were the same.
Why such a rant against the Sabbath when it is found nine times in the book of Acts where the "first day" is only found once when Paul preached till midnight because he was leaving the next day. No indication in Scripture that it was changed. God says, "I change not" Mal 3:6.
And if you don't think the Mother of Harlots and Abominations is behind Sunday, why Pope John Paul's encyclical, Dies Domini, and Pope Francis encyclical, Laudato Si' (disguised as a benefit for ecology to close business on Sunday for family values and the Eucharist, but why should he talk to congress about it. "Congress shall make no law respecting the establishment of religion..."
Early Americans understood the 1st (sea) beast of Rev 13 was the papacy that they had fled for freedom in the New World, but now the pope is telling us how to help our economy when every Catholic in S America wants to come here for better opportunity.

There is no sign in Genesis that Abraham kept a Sabbath or that God ever asked him to. Interestingly enough, one passage indicates that Abraham tithed. Is the tithe older than the Sabbath? Is it more important? It is possible for someone to read Genesis and come away believing that it is.

18 Then Melchizedek king of Salem brought out bread and wine. He was priest of God Most High, 19 and he blessed Abram, saying,

“Blessed be Abram by God Most High,
Creator of heaven and earth.
20 And praise be to God Most High,
who delivered your enemies into your hand.”

Then Abram gave him a tenth of everything.

Genesis 14: 18-20 NIV

Dale · Nov 5, 2018

EJ M said:
Thanks,
Seems like no one can argue that SDA s believe and teach Michael the archangel somehow morphed into Jesus.
I firmly believe Jesus Christ is Lord of lords and King of kings, not an angel, never was, never will be. I still worry about SDAs being Michaelians, not Christians.

EJ M said:
Based only on the Bible, (not men's theology) specifically Heb 1, I remain firmly convinced Jesus Christ is my Lord and my God,
Never was an angel, never will be. I believe Michael's name, Who is like God, is a statement, not a question.
I believe Jesus created Michael (Col 1, Heb 1) and all the other angels as well.
He is not like God, He is God! Why would Jesus say to satan, The Lord rebuke thee, when He is the Lord? (Jude, verse 9) Jesus did not say that, Michael did. What is to be gained by claiming Jesus is Michael? The Word of God makes no such claim.
I remain very concerned those attempting to downsize Jesus are Michaelians, not Christians.

Ellen White's approach can be maddening. She adds details to the Scripture with no indication of how or when she reached these conclusions. In the end, you either believe she is a prophet, or prophetess, or you don't. I've seen many reasons to believe that she is not.

In the following passage she quotes the Bible and simply adds [Christ] after Michael. Not very persuasive, is it? It's like a one word argument. In the same paragraph, she says that Gabriel was the angel that guided John in the Book of Revelation. Revelation doesn't say this, but EW assumes it.

<< The words of the angel, “I am Gabriel, that stand in the presence of God,” show that he holds a position of high honor in the heavenly courts. When he came with a message to Daniel, he said, “There is none that holdeth with me in these things, but Michael [Christ] your Prince.” Dan. 10:21. Of Gabriel the Saviour speaks in the Revelation, saying that “He sent and signified it by His angel unto His servant John.” Rev. 1:1. And to John the angel declared, “I am a fellow servant with thee and with thy brethren the prophets.” Rev. 22:9, R. V. Wonderful thought--that the angel who stands next in honor to the Son of God is the one chosen to open the purposes of God to sinful men. >>

Ellen White, Conflict of the Ages: The Five Books, Book III: the Desire of Ages
Chapter 10: The Voice in the Wilderness
Kindle Location 20960-66

mmksparbud · Nov 5, 2018

EJ M said:
Based only on the Bible, (not men's theology) specifically Heb 1, I remain firmly convinced Jesus Christ is my Lord and my God,
Never was an angel, never will be. I believe Michael's name, Who is like God, is a statement, not a question.
I believe Jesus created Michael (Col 1, Heb 1) and all the other angels as well.
He is not like God, He is God! Why would Jesus say to satan, The Lord rebuke thee, when He is the Lord? (Jude, verse 9) Jesus did not say that, Michael did. What is to be gained by claiming Jesus is Michael? The Word of God makes no such claim.
I remain very concerned those attempting to downsize Jesus are Michaelians, not Christians.

We are mostly in agreement---Jesus is not a created angel---He is the Creator. He is Jesus Christ and also ,my Lord and my God. Michael is a title--along with The Prince of Peace, Prince of Princes and so forth---No angel is ever to be worshipped--yet the "Angel of the Lord" said to Abraham that the ground he stood on was Holy--you believe an angel makes the ground Holy? No other "angel" ever said that. There is nothing to be "gained" in saying Michael is Jesus---it is just what makes sense when you put all the verses together. It is certainly not a "downsizing" of Jesus! It is Michael--the chief of all the angels, the chief of all God's Messengers, The archangel that will call us to life, the Commander in Chief--
1Th 4:16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:

Dale · Nov 5, 2018

mmksparbud said:
Jesus never was an angel, we do not teach that Jesus was ever a created angel!---And we are not the only protestants to believe this.

Michael--From the Hebrew name מִיכָאֵל (Mikha'el) meaning "who is like God?". This is a rhetorical question, implying no person is like God. Michael is one of the seven archangels in Hebrew tradition and the only one identified as an archangel in the Bible.

The word "angel" means messenger. Michael means --chief of the messengers who is like God.

Exo 3:2 And the angel of the LORD appeared unto him in a flame of fire out of the midst of a bush: and he looked, and, behold, the bush burned with fire, and the bush was not consumed.
Exo 3:3 And Moses said, I will now turn aside, and see this great sight, why the bush is not burnt.
Exo 3:4 And when the LORD saw that he turned aside to see, God called unto him out of the midst of the bush, and said, Moses, Moses. And he said, Here am I.
Exo 3:5 And he said, Draw not nigh hither: put off thy shoes from off thy feet, for the place whereon thou standest is holy ground.

Rev_12:7 And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,

No angel can make anything Holy--the angel of the Lord who appeared to Moses was Jesus--God. None other can make anything Holy. His angels--angels do not belong to other angels. Jesus is the Prince of the Angels, the Chief of Angels, the commander in Chief of the angles for He is the Chief of all of god's messengers and the greatest of the messengers from God. He came to bring us the Good News.

Dan_10:13 But the prince of the kingdom of Persia withstood me one and twenty days: but, lo, Michael, one of the chief princes, came to help me; and I remained there with the kings of Persia.
Dan_10:21 But I will shew thee that which is noted in the scripture of truth: and there is none that holdeth with me in these things, but Michael your prince.
Dan_12:1 And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book.

Isa_9:6 For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.
Dan 8:11 Yea, he magnified himself even to the prince of the host, and by him the daily sacrifice was taken away, and the place of his sanctuary was cast down.

Dan_8:25 And through his policy also he shall cause craft to prosper in his hand; and he shall magnify himself in his heart, and by peace shall destroy many: he shall also stand up against the Prince of princes; but he shall be broken without hand.
Dan_9:25 Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks: the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times.
Act 3:14 But ye denied the Holy One and the Just, and desired a murderer to be granted unto you;
Act 3:15 And killed the Prince of life, whom God hath raised from the dead; whereof we are witnesses.
Act_5:31 Him hath God exalted with his right hand to be a Prince and a Saviour, for to give repentance to Israel, and forgiveness of sins.
Rev_1:5 And from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, and the first begotten of the dead, and the prince of the kings of the earth. Unto him that loved us, and washed us from our sins in his own blood,

Dictionaries - Easton's Bible Dictionary - Archangel
Archangel [N]
( 1 Thessalonians 4:16 ; Jude 1:9 ), the prince of the angels.

Chief angel.

For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the ARCHANGEL, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first. ( 1 Thessalonians 1:1 Job 4:16 )
Word forms: plural archangels
countable noun
In the Jewish, Christian, and Muslim religions, an archangel is an angel of the highest rank.
COBUILD Advanced English Dictionary.
archangel in British
(ˈɑːkˌeɪndʒəl )
noun
1.
a principal angel, a member of the order ranking immediately above the angels in medieval angelology
Word Origin and History for archangel
n.
late 12c., from Old French archangel (12c.) or directly from Late Latin archangelus , from Greek arkhangelos "chief angel," from arkh- "chief, first" (see archon) + angelos (see angel). Replaced Old English heah encgel .

Verses are quoted that mention the Angel of the Lord. There is no reason to believe that the Archangel Michael is the Angel of the Lord. I believe that Ellen White assumes this, but we have no reason to believe it.

Verses are quoted where Michael is a Prince and verses are quoted where Jesus or the Messiah is a Prince. This does not show us that Jesus is Michael. "Prince" is a rank and can mean different things. For Isaiah to say that the coming Messiah is the Prince of Peace is something very different from saying that Michael is a commander of military angels in the heavens. You need to look at these verses far more carefully.

EJ M · Nov 5, 2018

mmksparbud said:
We are mostly in agreement---Jesus is not a created angel---He is the Creator. He is Jesus Christ and also ,my Lord and my God. Michael is a title--along with The Prince of Peace, Prince of Princes and so forth---No angel is ever to be worshipped--yet the "Angel of the Lord" said to Abraham that the ground he stood on was Holy--you believe an angel makes the ground Holy? No other "angel" ever said that. There is nothing to be "gained" in saying Michael is Jesus---it is just what makes sense when you put all the verses together. It is certainly not a "downsizing" of Jesus! It is Michael--the chief of all the angels, the chief of all God's Messengers, The archangel that will call us to life, the Commander in Chief--

1Th 4:16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:

Please, no.
In light of Heb 1, to claim Michael is Jesus makes no sense at all.
I believe Michael will announce the second coming of Christ, and maybe blow the trump also.
Michael has never been called the mighty God, the everlasting Father, the Prince of peace and never will be. (Isa :6)
Please forgo men's theology for the pure Word of God. You will never be sorry, especially on the day when Christ returns.
Ponder this, if I'm wrong, what are the consequences?
If you are wrong what could be the consequences?

Dale · Nov 5, 2018

mmksparbud said:
We are mostly in agreement---Jesus is not a created angel---He is the Creator. He is Jesus Christ and also ,my Lord and my God. Michael is a title--along with The Prince of Peace, Prince of Princes and so forth---No angel is ever to be worshipped--yet the "Angel of the Lord" said to Abraham that the ground he stood on was Holy--you believe an angel makes the ground Holy? No other "angel" ever said that. There is nothing to be "gained" in saying Michael is Jesus---it is just what makes sense when you put all the verses together. It is certainly not a "downsizing" of Jesus! It is Michael--the chief of all the angels, the chief of all God's Messengers, The archangel that will call us to life, the Commander in Chief--

1Th 4:16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:

EJ M said:
Please, no.
In light of Heb 1, to claim Michael is Jesus makes no sense at all.
I believe Michael will announce the second coming of Christ, and maybe blow the trump also.
Michael has never been called the mighty God, the everlasting Father, the Prince of peace and never will be. (Isa :6)
Please forgo men's theology for the pure Word of God. You will never be sorry, especially on the day when Christ returns.
Ponder this, if I'm wrong, what are the consequences?
If you are wrong what could be the consequences?

Let's take a closer look at Hebrews Chapter One, which EJ M mentioned.

1 In the past God spoke to our ancestors through the prophets at many times and in various ways, 2 but in these last days he has spoken to us by his Son, whom he appointed heir of all things, and through whomalso he made the universe. 3 The Son is the radiance of God’s glory and the exact representation of his being, sustaining all things by his powerful word. After he had provided purification for sins, he sat down at the right hand of the Majesty in heaven. 4 So he became as much superior to the angels as the name he has inherited is superior to theirs.

5 For to which of the angels did God ever say,

“You are my Son;
today I have become your Father”?

Or again,

“I will be his Father,
and he will be my Son”?

6 And again, when God brings his firstborn into the world, he says,

“Let all God’s angels worship him.”

7 In speaking of the angels he says,

“He makes his angels spirits,
and his servants flames of fire.”

8 But about the Son he says,

“Your throne, O God, will last for ever and ever;
a scepter of justice will be the scepter of your kingdom.
9 You have loved righteousness and hated wickedness;
therefore God, your God, has set you above your companions
by anointing you with the oil of joy.”

Hebrews 1: 1-9 NIV

These are powerful verses, this is a powerful passage.

Ellen White's Sabbath in Eden is Not Biblical

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Men dream of truth, find it then cant live with it

I love you three.

Men dream of truth, find it then cant live with it

I love you three.

Men dream of truth, find it then cant live with it

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