Al Jeerza TV videoing captured and dead Coalition forces!!

gwyyn · Mar 23, 2003

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=578&u=/nm/20030323/ts_nm/iraq_usprisoners_dc_3

 

BAGHDAD (Reuters) - Iraqi television showed video on Sunday of at least four bodies, said to be U.S. soldiers, and five prisoners who said they were Americans taken in a battle near the southern city of Nassiriya

 

The bodies and prisoners were shown on Iraqi television, relayed by the Arabic network Al-Jazeera, which said the dead and wounded had been taken during a battle at the town of Souq al-Shuyukh, southeast of the southern Iraqi city of Nassiriya where U.S. forces have encountered stiff resistance. Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld said the video apparently showing American prisoners of war was a violation of the Geneva Convention. The International Committee of the Red Cross agreed the footage violated the convention.

What do ya'll think of this??  I think it's disgusting!!  I just c/p part of the article. 

MetalBlade · Mar 23, 2003

I saw a glimpse of it on Fox News this morning. It just shows how creul and evil Saddam and his regime is. And it is in direct violation of the Geeneva Convention!!!

datan · Mar 24, 2003

Pot. Kettle. Black.

I've seen images of surrendering Iraqi prisoners as well as dead Iraqi troops on television, both during this war and the last Gulf War.

And oh, what about the two Afghan detainees tortured to death? But I guess they didn't fall under the Geneva Convention since they were not POWs--according to Bush?

Didymus · Mar 24, 2003

this is war annd peole on both sides die during war.and every solider on both sides has someone who loves him and wants him home safe. Just because the Iraquis say those bodies are Americans dosen t mean they are.

ACougar · Mar 24, 2003

The US military treats thier POWs well, those responsible for the deaths of the Afgan "detainies" should be brought to justice. I do not think the United States as a matter of policy treats in's POWs in an unethical manner and showing hundreds of POWs being marched to detention centers is not the same as interviewing them on TV. Thier propoganda mashine has taken things a few steps farther than I believe we would and for that I believe critisism is justified.

Didymus · Mar 24, 2003

there have been incidents of surrendering soldiers being shot by American troops in previous wars. but that is part of war . emotions are high and nerves are streched taut. i am not excusing it but that is the way life is.

My Higher Self · Mar 24, 2003

I agree...as a whole, the US military treats its POW's rather well. We certainly didn't go showing the bodies of the two Afghanis that were tortured to death on TV, atleast we hid it as something that we were and should be ashamed of. I agree that those responsible for those deaths should be held accountable, but for the US media to play into the hands of Iraqi propaganda is wrong.

datan · Mar 24, 2003

I do not think the United States as a matter of policy treats in's POWs in an unethical manner and showing hundreds of POWs being marched to detention centers is not the same as interviewing them on TV.

I think some people are trying to split hairs that "interviewing POWs on TV is wrong" while "showing POWs with their hands on their heads" is OK.
Images of POWs surrendering is just as propaganda as POWs interviewed on TV--both of which are forbidden by the Geneva conventions.

What about the Afghan detainees hooded and shackled? That isn't humiliating?

excerpts from the BBC:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/2881187.stm

The ICRC says the same rules apply to the pictures of Iraqis surrendering to American and British forces shown all over the world over the last few days.

If we look at the reactions today in the US and the Arab world, they have been very similar. People have perceived [the pictures] as being an offence, a humiliation," ICRC spokesperson Antonella Notari told BBC News Online.

PoWs should not be used as part of the propaganda war between the two sides, and all warring factions should respect that, says Ms Notari, a former PoW in Somalia herself.

Those rules should have also been applied to images of PoWs at the US base of Guantanamo Bay in Cuba.

"At that time, we approached the US authorities to ask them not to use these pictures," she says.

For more than a year now, the American Government has been criticised for the way it has treated hundreds of prisoners from the fighting in Afghanistan, says the BBC's diplomatic correspondent Barnaby Mason.

It has denied that those held at Guantanamo Bay in Cuba have the rights of PoWs - instead Donald Rumsfeld came up with the description "unlawful combatants".

Pictures of some of them hooded and kneeling have been shown on television.

No one is disputing that Iraq is in contravention of Geneva conventions. But please, stop the hypocrisy.

datan · Mar 24, 2003

Yesterday at 01:58 PM gwyyn said this in Post #1

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=578&u=/nm/20030323/ts_nm/iraq_usprisoners_dc_3

 

BAGHDAD (Reuters) - Iraqi television showed video on Sunday of at least four bodies, said to be U.S. soldiers, and five prisoners who said they were Americans taken in a battle near the southern city of Nassiriya

 

The bodies and prisoners were shown on Iraqi television, relayed by the Arabic network Al-Jazeera, which said the dead and wounded had been taken during a battle at the town of Souq al-Shuyukh, southeast of the southern Iraqi city of Nassiriya where U.S. forces have encountered stiff resistance. Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld said the video apparently showing American prisoners of war was a violation of the Geneva Convention. The International Committee of the Red Cross agreed the footage violated the convention.

What do ya'll think of this??  I think it's disgusting!!  I just c/p part of the article. 

this is one part that you didn't copy:

Pictures of Iraqi soldiers surrendering to U.S.-led forces in that last few days have been features prominently on U.S. television and in newspapers.

cenimo · Mar 24, 2003

And did they look beaten? Other than already being starved before capture?
Where those pictures intended to humiliate them as the Iraqi pictures of our POW's in their hands were?
Did we televise interrogations?

Your arguments are getting really weak here Datan. Trying to accuse the US of similar actions to the Iraqis in this case is absolutely uncalled for, pathetic, and unreasonable.
Who would you rather be caught by? No reply is needed, because if you say anyone other than the US or British in this case, you're lying.
Don't ever say these boards don't have an anti-American flavor.

Soldiers and airmen in combat fear capture more than they do getting waxed in battle, but I'm absolutely positive you having never been in the situation have no knowledge of it.

statahzeet

 

gwyyn · Mar 24, 2003

Yes and we've also shown pictures of our forces medivacing injured captured Iraqi troops out for medical treatment.

I'm sorry but if on the news we see people who are arrested being patted down, so I see nothing wrong with showing prisoners surrendering and being searched. The camera's werent' up in there faces asking for their name, what they were doing and such.

Wolseley · Mar 24, 2003

I still maintain that simply showing pictures of captured EPW's and actually airing "interviews" with them is different.

The pictures of EPW's are silent; they're simply pictures. But what is an "interview" going to accomplish? What are the POW's supposed to talk about? The weather? Mom's apple pie? Baseball scores? Or is it going to be for intelligence or humiliation/harrassment purposes: "Do you agree with your government in the attack on our country? What is the disposition of your forces? Why do you obey a criminal such as George Bush?", etc.

datan · Mar 24, 2003

Today at 03:26 PM cenimo said this in Post #10

And did they look beaten? Other than already being starved before capture?

what about the Afghani prisoners who were beaten to death?

Where those pictures intended to humiliate them as the Iraqi pictures of our POW's in their hands were?
Did we televise interrogations?

Click to expand...

Did you even read my post? The ICRC says that both Arab and US audiences feel that their POWs had been humiliated. Maybe by your standards you feel that what has been shown by the American media isn't humiliation, but Arab nations seeing the videos don't.

Your arguments are getting really weak here Datan. Trying to accuse the US of similar actions to the Iraqis in this case is absolutely uncalled for, pathetic, and unreasonable.

Click to expand...

I'm stating facts.
Fact: the ICRC is condeming both parties.
Fact: American audiences don't seem to see anything wrong with showing Iraqi POWs surrendering.
Fact: this is another personal attack that I'm sure will be ignored.

datan · Mar 24, 2003

Today at 03:29 PM gwyyn said this in Post #11

Yes and we've also shown pictures of our forces medivacing injured captured Iraqi troops out for medical treatment.

I'm sorry but if on the news we see people who are arrested being patted down, so I see nothing wrong with showing prisoners surrendering and being searched. The camera's werent' up in there faces asking for their name, what they were doing and such.

the point is: these prisoners might have felt humiliated. Their families might have felt humialited. Arab audiences might have felt they were being humiliated. What about images of POWs cuffed being their backs? That isn't humiliating?

datan · Mar 24, 2003

Today at 03:31 PM Wolseley said this in Post #12

I still maintain that simply showing pictures of captured EPW's and actually airing "interviews" with them is different.

The pictures of EPW's are silent; they're simply pictures. But what is an "interview" going to accomplish? What are the POW's supposed to talk about? The weather? Mom's apple pie? Baseball scores? Or is it going to be for intelligence or humiliation/harrassment purposes: "Do you agree with your government in the attack on our country? What is the disposition of your forces? Why do you obey a criminal such as George Bush?", etc.

I agree that the Iraqis should have treated their prisoners with respect. But I have two points:
- US military are using footage of POWs for propaganda purpose.
- US media are showing footage of POWs handcuffed being their backs. Is this humiliating?

My Higher Self · Mar 24, 2003

Datan, I agree with you that both sides are probably wrong...I'll get to specifics so that you understand me.

What you don't see is Afghani or Iraqi soldiers on TV in pile, each with a shot in the forhead because they were executed.

gwyyn · Mar 24, 2003

Has anyone seen the video footage?? I've just seen the pics of the 5 that are alive.

Morat · Mar 24, 2003

No. Luckily, I didn't see coalition soldiers like that either.

Oh wait, I know what you're referring to. Those dead coalition soldiers with bloody heads? Well, before jumping to the conclusion they were executed, I realized there were two other possibilities:

1) The occasional Iraqi can shoot straight. Support personel (as these were) are notoriously prone to leaving their helmets off.
2) Head wounds bleed a lot, shot people bleed a lot, and in combat people get shot.

And then I factored in the fact that live POW's are worth immeasurable more to Saddam (in terms of information, PR value both home and aborad) than dead ones, and the fact that he's offered quite a bit more money for live ones, and came to the conclusion that it was unlikely Iraqi soldiers executed several of the POWs and cost themselves a good deal of money for no apparant reason, actually.

gwyyn · Mar 24, 2003

Iraqi TV said Saddam was offering a $32,000 reward for the capture of an enemy soldier. The reward for killing one was only half that.

http://nydailynews.com/front/story/69216p-64418c.html

Saddam puts bounty on enemies' heads
21/03/2003 - 12:47:02 pm

Saddam Hussein today put a price on the heads of Allied troops, offering a reward for any Iraqi who shoots down a British or US aircraft, or kills or captures a pilot or soldier.

Any Iraqi who kills an Allied serviceman will receive 25 million dinars (about 13,000).

But the reward will be doubled if the enemy is taken alive, said Saddams decree, which was published by the state-run Iraqi News Agency.

The decree contained a list of reward categories:
:: 100 million dinars for shooting down an enemy fighter plane.
:: 50 million dinars for shooting down a helicopter.
:: 10 million dinars for intercepting a missile.
:: An Iraqi who shoots down an enemy fighter jet or helicopter is to get 50 million dinars if the pilot is captured and 25 million dinars if the pilot is killed.

The same reward applies for capturing or killing enemy soldiers on the ground, the Iraqi leader decreed.
http://www.breakingnews.ie/2003/03/21/story92551.html

Look's like there's a reward either way.

Morat · Mar 24, 2003

Yes, but it's twice as much if they're alive. So why, exactly, would you execute half of them, when it's costing you roughly 16,000 dollars for each one you kill?

I mean, I realize that stupid people exist and all, but you'd think that there'd be an NCO or such that would be smart enough to count.

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