Is the Rapture Deception?

HTacianas said:

The Rapture, as a protestant tradition, teaches that Jesus will return in secret and remove all Christians from the earth prior to any tribulation. That is the subject of this thread.

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It is actually not a Protestant tradition. It is a man made theological system introduced in the 19th century and spread through the Scofield Bible.

Southernscotty said:

Then why is the church not mentioned after chapter four of revelation until the end of Revelation? It is because the church left, The Bridegroom came for His bride and we are "caught up" To meet Him in the air.

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Only the born again can see the kingdom. And it spans the length of Revelation involving the entire New Covenant era. Revelation 20 is about the church (Biblical Israel) reigning over Satan until shortly before the end.

HTacianas said:

"Pre-tribulation rapture theology originated in the eighteenth century, with the Puritan preachers Increase and Cotton Mather, and was popularized extensively in the 1830s by John Nelson Darby[12][13] and the Plymouth Brethren,[14] and further in the United States by the wide circulation of the Scofield Reference Bible in the early 20th century."

Rapture - Wikipedia

From the OP:

"I feel that the idea of the rapture, is a deception given to us by the enemy, because when the world is destroyed due to our transgressions and unholiness, those believing in and waiting on the rapture will not know what's going on. They would've been expecting to be taken out before these things happen, and then their faith will fail them, because they weren't prepared to have to go through this time of trouble."

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You said "Rapture" not "Pre-trib Rapture". The quote from Wikipedia was talking about Pre-Trib rapture in particular. Obviously not the Rapture I spoke of - Post-trib pre-wrath.

To OP just uses the term "Rapture" to be a deception. No mention of which version. Both of you show your ignorance on the subject.

Devin P said:

Well, Jews, are only 1/12th of Israel. Israel consists of 11 other tribes in addition to Jews. God cast off 10 of them due to their disobedience, and He intends to bring them back again into covenant with them in the last days. We are in those last days now. So the verses you're saying are to be only about Jews, that idea, came about by men's doctrine. No where in scripture does it say that certain things are only for jews. Except of course when you read certain prophets and there are punishments for the jews because a prophet was told to go speak of impending doom to the jews because of their disobedience. Other than that though, the prophecy I mentioned to you, was regarding God's chosen. Of which, some are jews, some are levites, some are reubenites, some are zebulites, etc. Many different tribes, of which you are one. Which, only God knows, but if we're His chosen, and we're not jewish, we will be assigned a tribal allotment after His return, if we prove faithful.

Regarding the verse you mentioned in 2 Timothy, what is the word of God? It's bread, it's meat. What did Jesus instruct His disciples to do with the bread and the fish? To divide it amongst those that were hungry, that needed to be fed. It's not talking about divide verses to talk about gentiles and jews, it's talking about how we're to act to those we're instructing and being examples to. We have to act as scripture tells us to act, so that we can feed those that desire to be fed, so that after being fed with truth our actions can be fruitful, leading them to the truth so that they can be saved.

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Rightly dividing the Word is dividing what and to whom it is written. It is first written to Jews as Jesus said. I come ONLY to the lost sheep of Israel.
Then Peter had his vision and he went to Cornelius and realized the gentiles could be saved as well. During which things were turning towards Paul and he was given a special ministry that was meant to go to the gentiles as we are branches that are "grafted In" to the vine [John 15] and the Jews are blinded in part until the time in which Christ will be revealed unto them.
Matt, Mark Luke and John was written to Jews until after the crucifiction and then Acts 12 it extends unto the gentile :]
Paul is the apostle to us gentiles as he brings the mystery gospel- Eph 3

Dave L said:

Only the born again can see the kingdom. And it spans the length of Revelation involving the entire New Covenant era. Revelation 20 is about the church (Biblical Israel) reigning over Satan until shortly before the end.

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Yes only the believers will be "caught up"
believers are all nationalities Gal 3:28 except those sealed for the day of redemption. They will remain obviously to assist in leading others to Christ.

The fact that no-one one Earth ever heard of such an idea until a couple of hundred years ago makes it obvious that it was never part of original Christianity, and is one of the many modern traditions of men that have come out of Protestantism.

FireDragon76 said:

Chiliasm

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the definition of chiliasmChiliasm definition, the doctrine of Christ's expected return to reign on earth for 1000 years; millennialism

This is a false teaching

Southernscotty said:

Rightly dividing the Word is dividing what and to whom it is written. It is first written to Jews as Jesus said. I come ONLY to the lost sheep of Israel.
Then Peter had his vision and he went to Cornelius and realized the gentiles could be saved as well. During which things were turning towards Paul and he was given a special ministry that was meant to go to the gentiles as we are branches that are "grafted In" to the vine [John 15] and the Jews are blinded in part until the time in which Christ will be revealed unto them.
Matt, Mark Luke and John was written to Jews until after the crucifiction and then Acts 12 it extends unto the gentile :]
Paul is the apostle to us gentiles as he brings the mystery gospel- Eph 3

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text out of context is a pretext

Pretext - Wikipedia
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PretextA pretext (adj: pretextual) is an excuse to do something or say something that is not accurate. Pretexts may be based on a half-truth or developed in the context ...

HTacianas said:

The "rapture" is an idea that has only been around for around 150 years. It has never been a teaching of Christianity.

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based on a teenage girl's dream. There is no evidence that she ever became a Christian leader.

Devin P said:

We will once again be brought back to Him, for Him to reign on earth.

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Can you elaborate on this statement?

Southernscotty said:

Remember we have to rightly divide the Word of God. 2 Tim 2:15
You are taking some scripture that were for the Jews which will be the sealed 144 thousand.
Please read Matt 15:24 and see that Jesus was talking to Jews.
We are under a new covenant as gentiles and as such under the ministry of reconciliation by grace through faith with Paul is our apostle.

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See the Romans 11 evidence against the Replacement Theology.

***I used to believe in two kinds of Salvation, one for Old Testament people and one for New Testament people,
but I changed my mind.
It is all about having complete faith in God to help mankind with the sin problem.
All sins are because of selfishness.
At the born again time for each individual,
he or she begins to commit more of his or her life to God; less selfishness and sin.
Only God can do the needed justification and guide Sanctification via His Holy Spirit.
Remember how Hebrews 11 ends about the Old Testament believers? Hebrews 11:32-40--
“And what shall I more say?
for the time would fail me to tell of Gideon, and of Barak, and of Samson, and of Jephthae;
of David also, and Samuel, and of the prophets:
who through faith subdued kingdoms, wrought righteousness, obtained promises,
stopped the mouths of lions.
Quenched the violence of fire, escaped the edge of the sword,
out of weakness were made strong, waxed valiant in fight,
turned to flight the armies of the aliens.
Women received their dead raised to life again: and others were tortured,
not accepting deliverance; that they might obtain a better resurrection.
And others had trial of cruel mockings and scourgings,
yea, moreover of bonds and imprisonment:
they were stoned, they were sawn asunder,
were tempted, were slain with the sword:
they wandered about in sheepskins and goatskins;
being destitute, afflicted, tormented;
(of whom the World was not worthy
they wandered in deserts, and in mountains, and in dens and caves of the earth.
And these all, having obtained a good report through faith,
received not the promise:
God having provided some better thing for us,
that they without us should not be made perfect.”

BibleloverBill said:

based on a teenage girl's dream. There is no evidence that she ever became a Christian leader.

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But it kick started the theory put forth by the Jesuit Ribera

Southernscotty said:

Then why is the church not mentioned after chapter four of revelation until the end of Revelation? It is because the church left, The Bridegroom came for His bride and we are "caught up" To meet Him in the air.

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That is not true. It is not mentioned even in Revelation 4. Only the Apostle Paul is.
Revelation 12:
17 And the dragon was enraged with the woman,
and went to make war with the remnant of her seed,
who keep the commandments of God
and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.

Revelation 14:
6 And I saw another angel fly in the midst of heaven,
having the everlasting Gospel to preach to them who dwell on the Earth,
and to every nation, and kindred and tongue, and people,
7 saying with a loud voice,
“Fear God and give glory to Him,
for the hour of His judgment is come,
and worship Him Who made Heaven and Earth, and the sea and the fountains of waters.”
8 And there followed another angel, saying,
“Babylon is fallen, is fallen, that great city,
because she made all nations drink of the wine of the wrath of her fornication.”
9 And the third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice,
“If any man (or woman) worship the beast and his Image,
and receive his mark in his forehead or in his hand,
10 the same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God,
which is poured out without mixture into the cup of His indignation,
and he (or she) shall be tormented with fire and brimstone
in the presence of the holy angels and in the presence of The Lamb;
11 and the smoke of their torment ascends up forever and ever,
and they have no rest day nor night,
who worship the beast and his image,
and whosoever receives the mark of his name.”
12 Here is the patience of the Saints;
here are they who keep
the commandments of God
and the faith of Jesus.”

Revelation 22:
12 “And, behold, I come quickly;
and My reward is with Me to give every one according to his work.
13 I am Alpha and Omega, The Beginning and The End, The First and The Last.”
14 Blessed are they who do His commandments,
that they may have right to the Tree of Life,
and may enter in through the gates into the City.
15 But outside are dogs and sorcerers and sexually immoral and murderers and idolaters
and whosoever loves and practices a lie.

Southernscotty said:

Yes only the believers will be "caught up"
believers are all nationalities Gal 3:28 except those sealed for the day of redemption. They will remain obviously to assist in leading others to Christ.

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The problem is, not one scripture directly supports a pre-trib rapture.

Original Happy Camper said:

the definition of chiliasmChiliasm definition, the doctrine of Christ's expected return to reign on earth for 1000 years; millennialism

This is a false teaching

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The 1,000 year reign is symbolism. Some in the early church, like the Montanists, speculated about how plants would grow, and how much land each person would have during the millenium, and vain speculations like that, but most of the Church interpreted that imagery symbolically. Because Chiliasm lead to fanaticism and abandoning worldly life (as some of the pastoral epistles seem to be struggling with, people were quitting their jobs and loafing about in expectation of the second coming).

Christ's kingdom will not end, as our creed states, because Christ's kingdom is in the human heart. How exactly the world will end is something the Scriptures gives us only vague impressions. It has no bearing on our salvation, since the departed saints live in perfect blessedness in communion with God and each other, which is the Christian hope as my tradition understands it.

HTacianas said:

The "rapture" is an idea that has only been around for around 150 years. It has never been a teaching of Christianity.

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To be specific, the pre-millennial pre-tribulation rapture.

The Church rejected the idea of a literal earthly millennium at the Second Ecumenical Council, which is why the Creed has the phrase, "whose kingdom shall have no end."