Liberals Cry Louder For Single-Payer While England’s Single-Payer Nightmare Worsens

NightHawkeye said:

I see what you mean.

We could have our own version of the NHS here where hundreds of thousands die per year because they couldn't wait long enough to get healthcare the way it works in the UK.

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That’s a barefaced lie.

NightHawkeye said:

How many insurers remain on the Obamacare website? How many did there used to be?

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It depends on where you live, but then you knew that.

And are you talking about insurers who participate in the ACA, those who don't, or both?

NightHawkeye said:

Why would we put the same people who can’t operate the Postal Service, Amtrak, or the DMV in charge of the health care system?

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You may not be aware of this, but the Postal Service and Amtrak are both at least partially privatized. And the DMV is run by your state, not the federal government. So the people running the USPS, AMTRAK, and the DMV will not be running the healthcare system.

NightHawkeye said:

I wondered how long it would take for someone to harp on the points you're bringing up now.

It's always different when a slightly different version of the government takes control isn't it? You know, like how communism will be different this next time. We just need the right person in charge.

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Again it depends on what state you live in. Some states do really well at running their state government programs and stay out of debt, others don't. Some states are doing really well using technology to streamline and expedite their services, some aren't. An example in my state would be the ability to renew your driver's license online. That made a big difference at the DMV offices.

NightHawkeye said:

It's always different when a slightly different version of the government takes control isn't it? You know, like how communism will be different this next time. We just need the right person in charge.

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Did I say that? No, I didn't. All I did was refute the assertion that a nationalized healthcare system would be run by the same people running the USPS, Amtrak, and the DMV. I have no way of knowing for sure whether or not it will be better, but pointing to systems that are in no way similar to the system you're criticizing as examples of how it won't work is exceedingly dishonest.

RocksInMyHead said:

Did I say that? No, I didn't. All I did was refute the assertion that a nationalized healthcare system would be run by the same people running the USPS, Amtrak, and the DMV. I have no way of knowing for sure whether or not it will be better, but pointing to systems that are in no way similar to the system you're criticizing as examples of how it won't work is exceedingly dishonest.

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The US federal government is wasteful and we have too large a population for them to manage efficiently, ex. the Veterans Administration.
I would prefer that each state manage the program in their state through block grants from the Fed. All the rules would be the same across the country, not each state making up their own rules.

Kentonio said:

I also happen to be a real Englishman, and disagree absolutely and entirely with everything you just said.

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And here I thought Englishmen were from England but it seems they are also from France.

NightHawkeye said:

Not dishonest in the least.

Nearly everyone can relate to government run entities. It's an entirely valid comparison. Pretending, as you seem to be, that government run healthcare will somehow run better than other government entities is exceedingly dishonest.

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Sure, but the problem is that they're not government-run entities (or in the case of the DMV, not federal government). USPS is an independent federal agency and receives zero tax dollars for operations. Amtrak is explicitly not a government agency, though it does receive federal subsidies. And the DMV, as already pointed out, is run by state governments, not the federal government. Some of them even do it quite well - when I lived in Kansas, I rarely had to wait in line for more than a few minutes, even in larger cities, and it was easy to electronically schedule same-day appointments.

Meh (hand wave away all that). It will be different here because we are way smarter than everybody else who has ever tried this... They were all dumb and were doing it wrong.

NightHawkeye said:

From the "Who wants healthcare run by the same folks who run the Post Office, Amtrak and the DMV?" files: Liberals Cry Louder For Single-Payer While England’s Single-Payer Nightmare Worsens

England’s national health care program, the National Health Service, is facing huge difficulties liberals in America don’t want you to know about.

Earlier in October, reports emerged that the National Health Service’s forthcoming 10-year plan will include a policy change that will make group appointments with primary care doctors the “default” option for those with long-term health problems. Under the new model, patients will be expected to meet with doctors in groups of 15 ...

For several years, critics of the health care system have complained that it’s wildly underfunded and, as a result, suffering from long wait times ...

No one denies the United States has plenty of health care problems of its own, and the Obamacare model imposed on Americans by the liberals in 2010 has only made things significantly worse. But the solutions to those flaws in our current system can’t be found in the government-controlled systems of Canada or Europe because government almost always creates more problems than it solves, with very few exceptions.

This isn’t revolutionary thinking. Why would we put the same people who can’t operate the Postal Service, Amtrak, or the DMV in charge of the health care system? If it can’t figure out how to deliver letters and packages without running massive deficits, why would we expect it to run the much more complicated health care system effectively?​

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Francis Drake said:

Myself a real Englishman, I can confirm that the NHS is utter garbage. I hate being forced to fund what it does to this country.

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I bet you still use it though.

Let us run health care purchasing they same way we run food purchasing. If I need something I buy it and if I don't need it I do not have to. No one puts a figurate gun to my head and makes me buy Kale, ( I know some would very much like to but so far that hasn't happened). Why should someone put a figurative gun to my head and force me to buy health care that I do not currently need? When I was young routine health care was delivered by the practitioners at reasonable prices. Once government got involved in health care, through Medicare and later Medicaid, health care suddenly became vastly more expensive and with the advent of Obamacare health insurance policies became for profit health benefit policies. Government is way too intrusive in our lives and the able bodied among us need to become adults again. Children and those unable to function as able bodied adults need someone or some thing to provide for them able bodied adults provide for themselves. Placing every citizen on a system of government charity when it comes to health care is figuratively infantilizing the entire population.

Here’s what Americans need to know about the UK’s health system

"the average UK spend per head on healthcare is $4,192 (£2,989) – and it has a life expectancy of 81.6 years. The US spends more than twice this amount, $9,892 – far more than any other country in the world – and yet life expectancy is far lower.
What’s maybe the most staggering fact is that the US government spends more money on healthcare than the UK government does, despite the latter managing to offer a comprehensive, single-payer health system for the price. The total is $4,860 per person – that’s more than the UK’s total health budget, and $1,500 a head more than the UK government spends."

Mountainmanbob said:

The goats have asked on this morning?

Why do the Democrats want that?

Who is really guiding them?

They are deep into their Bibles at this moment.

M-Bob

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Uh Mbob, this is a Christian website. You should probably avoid talking about how you feed bibles to your goats. It might cause you some forum indigestion.

NightHawkeye said:

We could have our own version of the NHS here where hundreds of thousands die per year because they couldn't wait long enough to get healthcare the way it works in the UK.

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Evidence please.

grasping the after wind said:

And here I thought Englishmen were from England but it seems they are also from France.

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People actually move to other countries occasionally!? Oh my gosh, who would have thought such a thing possible!

LoAmmi said:

When the Conservatives get in charge, they slash funding for the NHS. Then pretend to be dumbfounded when it isn't working as well as it could be with proper funding.

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According to the liberal model, it could never be "properly funded". As Maggy Thatcher said, "eventually you run out of other people's money".