My husband had absolutely no interest in being the spiritual leader in our family

Alone-in-my-faith · Nov 1, 2018

StromRider said:
that mean he is too young to decide he does want Christ or fellowship in his life? What child could begin to understand such things at that age?

This is exactly the reason you have a child go to Sunday school. That way he/she is taught and informed about what exactly it means to have a personal relationship with Christ so that he/she may decide if he/she is to accept that gift. This is one of the reasons our church doesn't baptize children under 13.
At 8 or 9 a child is too young to be a research chemist or a civil engineer too but you have that child take science and math in school so when he/she is of age to decide what he/she would like to be that base is there to build on. Christianity is no different.

StromRider · Nov 1, 2018

RaymondG said:
(-cool bike in your profile picture....is it yours?....how many ccS? Im going to get a license next riding season.....what first bike would you recommend?)

Oh don't get me started on bikes, I'll be here all day! It's a 2012 Suzuki V-Strom 650. I've been riding since I was 16, so that's, a lot of years....

A lot of people recommend getting a used bike for your first one as a new rider is likely to have a few growing pains - drops, and it's less painful emotionally and financially to drop a used bike over a new one.

Probably go somewhere in the 400-550 cc range as it will be big enough to get around comfortably but not big enough to get yourself in trouble. There are some very nice sport bikes in the 250-350 cc range these days but you would have to like that style and riding position.

Most popular bikes have forums dedicated to them and these can provide a wealth of information from common maintenance issues to ideosyncracies of the bike to a place where you can ask specific questions about weight, riding position and other things. I can only talk generalities right now and come with my own built in biases - hate harleys and bikes that imitate them, love the look of sports bikes but too old to handle the riding position for any length of time, love adventure sports bikes for the ride but realize they aren't the best looking and are an acquired taste.

Dave-W · Nov 1, 2018

StromRider said:
As someone once said, athiesm is to religion as bald is to hair colour.

Dave-W · Nov 1, 2018

Alone-in-my-faith said:
This is exactly the reason you have a child go to Sunday school. That way he/she is taught and informed about what exactly it means to have a personal relationship with Christ

Deut 6:6 These words, which I am commanding you today, shall be on your heart. 7 You shall teach them diligently to your children and shall talk of them when you sit in your house and when you walk by the way and when you lie down and when you rise up.

PreviouslySeeking... · Nov 1, 2018

I think you are going to have to teach your son about your beliefs away from church for the time being. The angriest atheist I know was dragged to church throughout his childhood and I don't think he has ever forgiven his parents, he's 50 now.

If you want your child to have a relationship with your God, you need to give him a reason to desire one that makes sense to him. Treating church like it is the medicine you have to take doesn't build a relationship, it just wears kids down in families that don't offer an alternative, but your family does. Your son already has a role model for what a good non Christian looks like. He won't believe that life will be empty without God because his father's life doesn't look empty. You need to lay the groundwork for the relationship you want your son to have with God so he actually wants to go to church, having him sit there, angry & irritated won't do anything positive.

RaymondG · Nov 1, 2018

Alone-in-my-faith said:
This is one of the reasons our church doesn't baptize children under 13.
At 8 or 9 a child is too young to be a research

I had a healthy fear of the Lord and was Baptized around 7......being fill with the holy spirit was the only thing on my mind before the age the 10, after hearing "the gospel...." until i felt that I was... God is still the one I think about the most many decades later. My sons, one of them, 8, asked to be baptized without me mentioning the word to them. I even questioned them as to why..... So who was I to deny them...

I think this is something that should go on a case by case basis....and not a hard and fast rule....

Alone-in-my-faith · Nov 1, 2018

RaymondG said:
I had a healthy fear of the Lord and was Baptized around 7......being fill with the holy spirit was the only thing on my mind before the age the 10, after hearing "the gospel...." until i felt that I was... God is still the one I think about the most many decades later. My sons, one of them, 8, asked to be baptized without me mentioning the word to them. I even questioned them as to why..... So who was I to deny them...

I think this is something that should go on a case by case basis....and not a hard and fast rule....

I understand, this is just how the church elders at my church chose to do things.

tall73 · Nov 1, 2018

At young ages you can do family worship in a more engaging way. Act out the stories, then discuss. As they get older, act out, read then discuss.

Keep it short, ten minutes or so. Our kids would be disappointed when we didn't have family worship.

mkgal1 · Nov 1, 2018

@Alone-in-my-faith ..... your husband reminds me of Beth Moore's husband (Keith). From what she says....he'd much rather be out on a lake fishing on Sunday morning (and he says God is there, too - He isn't just in church). Maybe that's a great lesson for your son - to see God in nature and all sorts of situations?

How Firm a Foundation - Living Proof Ministries Blog

Alone-in-my-faith · Nov 3, 2018

Hi all, to all those who suggested family worship and God centric activities at home I tried that now I feel even more alone. I sat or child down intending to spend a mother and son evening with him reading bible stories I was dishartened when he told me "mommy the bible is BORING! " I explained to him that the bible is God's story book and that's how God teaches us to be good people and that we could read it together. I told him that if we could read a few stories from the bible together he could pick some other books we can read together next. That's when he told me "reading sucks".
I tried to explain to him that reading not only passes in knowledge it also transports you to all sorts of wonderful worlds. I explained to him how I love to read, not just the bible but all sorts of stories (right now I am deep in historical fictions and of course George RR Martin ). That's when he told me the things I like to do are "Boring" and that he "hates books".
I told him that both his mommy and daddy are highly educated people (I have a MS and BS in chemical engineering and my husband has his MS in Civil engineering and his BS in Mechanical Engineering and although I stay at home we both have our PE licences) and that our success involved a lot of reading comprehension.
Like I said in a previous post even if a child is to young to say be a research chemist or to decided if he will accept Christ you start building that base young so the foundation is strong for the future. That's when my son called me a liar! He told me that his daddy doesn't read, and daddy hates books, but daddy is "smarter in science than you are mommy and he is more fun, maybe that's why daddy has more friends and is happier all the time". With that I was almost in tears so I sent him to his room and took away his TV and Nintendo.
I waited up for my husband so we could talk about our son's behavior and that just made things even worse. I have always known that my husband didn't share my love of literature and that was OK, I have always just accepted that it was not his go to hobby just like he had always accepted canoeing and harassing alligators wasn't mine. But for his own son to think that his father is some hillbilly who hates the written word and doesn't value education is rather troubling. Especially since this is the same man who poured hours with me together while we prepared for our finals in one of the toughest engineering curriculums in the country.
When my husband got home I asked him where he thought our son may have gotten the idea that "books suck" and he nonchalantly replied probably from him and his buddy Nick from work. He then went in about how Shakespeare was a homo, jk Rowling is a dy*e and affectionately refered to George RR Martin as Lord Neckbeard.
I told him that his attitude is affecting or son and that our son is now discounting the importance of reading and writing because of him. I reminded him of hours that he himself spent reading to get to where he is today. That's when we countered with how he never thought that any of the reading he did was beneficial but more of a "nessescary evil" to "jump through the hoop". He then reminded me of how he was able to worm his way out of taking English Lit in college by claiming to be an ESL student (which is technically true because although he grew up in Wisconsin his family immigrated from Taiwan when he was 2 so technically be is a first generation immigrant who spoke English as a Second Language). He then quipped that I was reminding him off his fourth grade teacher who liked to was obsessed with books and how she thought he was a dumdum because he would rather play outside than read our write journal. He joked that he now wants to find her and ask her if being well read helped her pay off that Hyundai before the 10y warranty was up. I asked him how could he say something like that when he is so well educated and should know first hand the doors that education had opened for him. He responded by telling me how that teacher told him that he would struggle in life because of how he resisted readjng and learning to write and that he would be sorry when he is flipping burgers. He seems to think this is funny because as he puts it "that dumb c*nt had no idea how useless that cr*p was, I didn't need cursive because I am allowed to sign my name with a stamp". We argued for hours after that and didn't resolve things and just decided to sleep in different rooms last night. When I woke up this morning both him and our son were gone along with the boat and a note magneted to the fridge -"gone fishing don't wait up"
I am not sure how I want to talk to him about this when he gets back. Should this be a discussion between me and him? Me and him and our son? Or just my son and i? Should I just drop this?
I am still a bit hurt and a little angry. But to be fair to him he didn't do it say anything to attack me yesterday. Most of his negativity was directed at his grade school teachers and most of it was in the form of derisive comments about how teachers can't do so they teach. On the other hand though that was not at all what I wanted to talk to him about but he just steeredthe conversion into that direction.
On the plus side when I woke up, I woke up the a fresh loaf of bread in the bread maker, 4 breakfast tamales in the instant pot and my favorite pod in the Keurig so I know he was thinking of me before he left with our son to go fishing so I am torn as to how I should address him.

tall73 · Nov 3, 2018

Alone-in-my-faith said:
Hi all, to all those who suggested family worship and God centric activities at home I tried that now I feel even more alone. I sat or child down intending to spend a mother and son evening with him reading bible stories I was dishartened when he told me "mommy the bible is BORING! "

We often get long troll threads here, and this is sounding like one. But for the moment, let's continue. If you are sincerely going through these events, then you completely disregarded what people told you about making the worship times short and interesting, and integrating things other than just reading. And you told a child who you already knew didn't want to go to church that you wanted to spend a whole evening reading the Bible, which I think most 8 year olds would find quite difficult.

Either you are putting us on or you are completely missing what is being said.

tall73 · Nov 3, 2018

Alone-in-my-faith said:
I tried to explain to him that reading not only passes in knowledge it also transports you to all sorts of wonderful worlds. I explained to him how I love to read, not just the bible but all sorts of stories (right now I am deep in historical fictions and of course George RR Martin ).

For those keeping track at home:

- story-telling name with few posts.
- Long post about generally fundamentalist folks imposing their faith on people.
- strangely conversational tidbits about reading habits during a crisis
- completely disregarding balanced advice and imposing radical solutions

Like I said in a previous post even if a child is to young to say be a research chemist or to decided if he will accept Christ you start building that base young so the foundation is strong for the future. That's when my son called me a liar! He told me that his daddy doesn't read, and daddy hates books, but daddy is "smarter in science than you are mommy and he is more fun, maybe that's why daddy has more friends and is happier all the time". With that I was almost in tears so I sent him to his room and took away his TV and Nintendo.
I waited up for my husband so we could talk about our son's behavior and that just made things even worse. I have always known that my husband didn't share my love of literature and that was OK, I have always just accepted that it was not his go to hobby just like he had always accepted canoeing and harassing alligators wasn't mine. But for his own son to think that his father is some hillbilly who hates the written word and doesn't value education is rather troubling.
Especially since this is the same man who poured hours with me together while we prepared for our finals in one of the toughest engineering curriculums in the country.
When my husband got home I asked him where he thought our son may have gotten the idea that "books suck" and he nonchalantly replied probably from him and his buddy Nick from work. He then went in about how Shakespeare was a homo, jk Rowling is a dy*e and affectionately refered to George RR Martin as Lord Neckbeard.

People using incendiary language regarding homosexuals again.

I told him that his attitude is affecting or son and that our son is now discounting the importance of reading and writing because of him. I reminded him of hours that he himself spent reading to get to where he is today. That's when we countered with how he never thought that any of the reading he did was beneficial but more of a "nessescary evil" to "jump through the hoop". He then reminded me of how he was able to worm his way out of taking English Lit in college by claiming to be an ESL student (which is technically true because although he grew up in Wisconsin his family immigrated from Taiwan when he was 2 so technically be is a first generation immigrant who spoke English as a Second Language). He then quipped that I was reminding him off his fourth grade teacher who liked to was obsessed with books and how she thought he was a dumdum because he would rather play outside than read our write journal. He joked that he now wants to find her and ask her if being well read helped her pay off that Hyundai before the 10y warranty was up.
I asked him how could he say something like that when he is so well educated and should know first hand the doors that education had opened for him. He responded by telling me how that teacher told him that he would struggle in life because of how he resisted readjng and learning to write and that he would be sorry when he is flipping burgers. He seems to think this is funny because as he puts it "that dumb c*nt had no idea how useless that cr*p was, I didn't need cursive because I am allowed to sign my name with a stamp".

The dialogue is getting a bit strained.

We argued for hours after that and didn't resolve things and just decided to sleep in different rooms last night. When I woke up this morning both him and our son were gone along with the boat and a note magneted to the fridge -"gone fishing don't wait up"
I am not sure how I want to talk to him about this when he gets back. Should this be a discussion between me and him? Me and him and our son? Or just my son and i? Should I just drop this?

Probably should drop this.

I am still a bit hurt and a little angry. But to be fair to him he didn't do it say anything to attack me yesterday. Most of his negativity was directed at his grade school teachers and most of it was in the form of derisive comments about how teachers can't do so they teach. On the other hand though that was not at all what I wanted to talk to him about but he just steeredthe conversion into that direction.
On the plus side when I woke up, I woke up the a fresh loaf of bread in the bread maker, 4 breakfast tamales in the instant pot and my favorite pod in the Keurig so I know he was thinking of me before he left with our son to go fishing so I am torn as to how I should address him.

Address him as you would any figment of your imagination.

Alone-in-my-faith · Nov 3, 2018

tall73 said:
We often get long troll threads here, and this is sounding like one. But for the moment, let's continue. If you are sincerely going through these events, then you completely disregarded what people told you about making the worship times short and interesting, and integrating things other than just reading. And you told a child who you already knew didn't want to go to church that you wanted to spend a whole evening reading the Bible, which I think most 8 year olds would find quite difficult.

Either you are putting us on or you are completely missing what is being said.

But you are the one who said bible stories and acting them out! I was thinking about pulling one of our many bedtime bible story books and reading in the characters voices, what did you mean acting them out? Were you suggesting a feature length off Broadway production of the genealogy if the porters? I never said reading the bible I said bible stories, you know like the one where Jesus walked on water, the one where Jesus filled the Nets. Are you telling me you never had those big illustrated storey time bibles while growing up?
Let me guess you are one of those keyboard intellectuals who wants the Internet to know just how sagacious you are but you fear "being trolled" because you great looking foolish to the anonymous Internet strangers who follow you. That's why you need to hedge your comments with "I think this is a troll but I'll bite anyways". That way all of us on the Internet can see how super duper smart you are and how no one makes a monkey out of you?

tall73 · Nov 3, 2018

Alone-in-my-faith said:
But you are the one who said bible stories and acting them out!

Yes, different than:

Alone-in-my-faith said:
I sat or child down intending to spend a mother and son evening with him reading bible stories I was dishartened when he told me "mommy the bible is BORING!

tall73 · Nov 3, 2018

Alone-in-my-faith said:
Let me guess you are one of those keyboard intellectuals who wants the Internet to know just how sagacious you are but you fear "being trolled" because you great looking foolish to the anonymous Internet strangers who follow you.

Sounds like you don't dispute being a troll.

Alone-in-my-faith · Nov 3, 2018

tall73 said:
Sounds like you don't dispute being a troll.

Sounds like you don't deny needing to show just how super smart you are to strangers on the Internet. Who are you trying to convince of your own intelligence, the Internet or yourself? What's the matter you don't feel your intellect is respected enough irl?

FireDragon76 · Nov 3, 2018

First off, punching somebody doesn't exactly fit with being a good man in my book . It fits with having emotional issues, immaturity, and insecurity, even if one is under pressure, there are ways to deal with that without being aggressive.

Your dilemma has nothing to do with your husband being a spiritual leader, the two of you aren't even on the same page, and your husband isn't living up to the agreement to not stand in the way of your son's religious upbringing. Nevertheless, be careful of being overly insistent, you could end up scandalizing your husband and son. A gentle demeanor is far better than being strident, in this case.

Alone-in-my-faith said:
As an athiest you may not be aware that salvation is not based on being a good guy. Salvation is based on knowingly and willingly accepting Jesus Christ as your personal savior. You may disagree with me but I feel that children should be educated in faith much like they are educated in mathematics, science, civics, and the like.

Even if that's true, salvation isn't dependent on going to church. There have been sunday's I am just too tired and I do stay at home just to be with my family. That is not wrong to do. Family relationships in ones vocation and attending to your physical and mental health should come first before church.

A compromise might be that your son only has to go to church with you every other weekend, and he can hang out with his dad at other times. That should be very equitable.

Toro · Nov 4, 2018

Matthew 18:20

The building is meaningless, it is the gathering that matters.

Nobody is saved by force, IF thats how it worked God wouldn't have given us a free will.

Alone-in-my-faith · Nov 4, 2018

FireDragon76 said:
First off, punching somebody doesn't exactly fit with being a good man in my book . It fits with having emotional issues, immaturity, and insecurity, even if one is under pressure, there are ways to deal with that without being aggressive.

I understand that, but this happened more than 10 years ago when he was barely in his early 20's. We all grow and mature, we have all done some pretty dumb stuff back when we were younger. That's not the person he is now.

FireDragon76 said:
Even if that's true, salvation isn't dependent on going to church. There have been sunday's I am just too tired and I do stay at home just to be with my family. That is not wrong to do. Family relationships in ones vocation and attending to your physical and mental health should come first before church.

A compromise might be that your son only has to go to church with you every other weekend, and he can hang out with his dad at other times. That should be very equitable.

So how do we strike this compromise, I want some form of worship be it church, family prayer you know something and it seems my son and husband want to do none of it. I have given up on church every week, I would take anything at this point that has some modicum of Christian teaching.

FireDragon76 said:
your husband isn't living up to the agreement to not stand in the way of your son's religious upbringing.

You are partially right on this but it goes one step back further. Right now it seems we do not agree on exactly what the agreement was. To my husband the way he interpretes the agreement is that he won't forbid our son's spiritual upbringing but he wouldn't contribute to it either. I believe as you out it that he isn't living up to his part of the agreement by offering more fun alternatives to religious education /instruction. How would you suggest overcoming this first impasse?

Toro said:
meaningless, it is the gathering that matters.

Nobody is saved by force, IF thats how it worked God wouldn't have given us a free will.

That is totally true but I want to direct you to
Proverbs 22:6. That is what I am looking for advice on. How would you do that when the child is completely uninterested in training and the other parent won't support discipline in this matter?
I don't know if you are married or have had children but if you do/did how does/did your family handle wedge issues?

FireDragon76 · Nov 4, 2018

You have as much parental rights as your husband, and that includes the religious upbringing of your son.

You will have to work out a compromise of some sort. Perhaps it will require counseling.

At my church the kids are all happy to be there, it's the older teenagers and young adults we have problems with retaining their interest. We have a children's sermon that is very popular. Our spirituality is not exclusively directed towards adult things.

My husband had absolutely no interest in being the spiritual leader in our family

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