My husband had absolutely no interest in being the spiritual leader in our family

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My husband is a good guy but he has absolutely no interest in being the spiritual leader of our family. As a result our eight year old has decided that he wants to be like his dad and skip church and bible study in order to have more fun in life.
I have spoke to my husband about this but he won't budge. I asked him if he could attend church with us again or lead us in prayer but he flat out refuses. He says that if I want to do those things is fine by him, if I can get our child to go along more power to me but he will not participate nor will he make our child participate against his will.
I know these days it is very common for some of us women to go to church with our kids but without our husbands; I was wondering how you ladies in this situation handle it when your kids want to be like their dad and forgo church.
 
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RaymondG

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I'm not a lady but I've been attending church with people in your situation for almost 4 decades....and I have children of my own.

I havent experiences a child of eight, being able to decide for themselves where they can and will not go. When they get north of 16 then some may start to rebel and decide they would like to do their own thing.

The situation with your Husband and child or two separate issues.....For your husband, prayer and patience is key....For the child....steady discipline and rules.
 
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.For the child....steady discipline and rules.
Of course I agree with that. But how do I do this in practice? He is also the son of my husband and my husband refuses to make church and bible study part of the rules. He says that it is hypocritical for him to enforce my rules concerning church on our son if he doesn't enforce them on him self. When u asked him to just do this for me because it is important to me, he dredged up an old promise I made to him years ago when I promised him that under no circumstance would I ever try to empose church or any other trapping of Christianity ever again and that matters of his personal faith are his to decid alone (and yes I stupidly put this all in writing )
Also about a child of 8 deciding where he wants to go, he decides that he would rather spend time with his dad rather than going to church and his dad flat out refuses to tell him that daddy is busy and he needs to go to church with mommy. Last Sunday when I told our son to get ready for church he just clung to his dad and said he wants to go have fun with daddy instead. I went to church alone again and they went four wheeling
 
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St_Worm2

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Hi @Alone-in-my-faith, as to the matter of your contract with your husband, was it meant to include your young children too? If not, what does your promise to him have to do with your children?

Praying for you and your family, especially that God would cause your husband to be favorably disposed to the idea of your son attending church with you.

Yours and His,
David
p.s. - I know that he is too young for youth group, but is he still in Sunday School (or if not, are there kids for him to look forward to seeing in church each Sunday)?
 
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young children too? If not, what does your promise to him have to do with your children?
Well he won't go, so our son doesn't want to go and he won't make our son go. He said that our son may go but he won't make him go.
p.s. - I know that he is too young for youth group, but is he still in Sunday School (or if not, are there kids for him to look forward to seeing in church each Sunday)?
He says that he hates Sunday school and when his dad heard him day that he just said that he can't blame him and that it would be hypocritical of him to tell his son that is good for him I'd he doesn't feel that it is in his heart of hearts. About children he sees in church, none of his friends from school go to church and a few weeks ago a friend of his invited him over to play on a Sunday however there was a pretty important lesson that week in Sunday so so I had to say no. That week dad was away on a business trip so I practically dragged our son to church. The next week when dad was home, dad wanted to go crabbing with one of his work friends and our son wanted to do that instead of church. When I asked dad to present a united front with me he told me no and he told our child he won't make him go to church.
 
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tall73

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he dredged up an old promise I made to him years ago when I promised him that under no circumstance would I ever try to empose church or any other trapping of Christianity ever again and that matters of his personal faith are his to decid alone (and yes I stupidly put this all in writing )

Is there a story to how this happened? That is not a usual occurrence in most families. Do you have a history of compelling people to go to church?
 
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Is there a story to how this happened? That is not a usual occurrence in most families. Do you have a history of compelling people to go to church?
Unfortunately yes I know I bare much of the responsibility in this situation. Back in my younger days my zeal for my faith was a Leelee but miss guided. I incorrectly believed that in order to be a good Christian it was of paramount importance to win souls for Christ, be seen at church, and be seen doing the Lord's work and such. I realized later that much of it was my own sinful pride but I was much younger back then and have since matured.
Back when I first met my husband him and I were in college. He was in one of my classes, he wasn't Christian but he was a really good guy, he was (and still is) very kind, very intelligent, and very attractive.
I developed a crush on him and it was obvious he liked me too so we started going out. He did make it very clear that he was a non believer but he had no prejudice towards Christians and that it was just not something he grew up with.
At that point all my friends, who were Christian, advised me to not pursue a relationship with him as not to be unevenly yoked. I was advised to just be his friend and such. However, due to my own pride and what I realize now was my own selfish desire for the worldly pleasure of that relationship, I got it into my head that if I could get him to accept Christ and be Christian, not only do I get to keep my fairytale relationship I also get to say I won his soul for Jesus.
So I talked to him about accepting Jesus and since he didn't come from a religious background and had no prejudice one way or another he pretty much said "yeah sure why not". I basically took that and ran with it. So I started dragging him along to church, youth group, Friday night life, etc with me. I keep telling him and myself that he needed to have fellowship with other Christians to grow his faith but really I was showing him and my "triumph" off, which now I realize how wrong I was. Whenever he protested I would pretty much guilt him with "you know this is the right thing to do" to quiet his complaints and get compliance.
This is not to say we weren't happy together. We still had a lot of fun as a young couple, we did stuff like go camping, skeet shooting, game nights and such. Our relationship wasn't particularly church or Christ centric (which was another problem I know) To him church and fellowship just became this twice a week chore that he did to be "right" we God and me. Anyways things went that way through or dating relationship and we got married. I knew he resented giving up half his Sunday and Friday night for fellowship but by that time he was resigned to consider it the same way he views work, he doesn't particularly like it but it is a responsibility so he'll go. For me that was good enough and I was rather insensitive to his feelings about it. I just kept telling my self that I was doing the right thing for him and our new family.
A little while after we got married he still really liked going to this little canal to go crabbing and fishing. I would go with him some times to make him happy but it really wasn't my thing since I was deathly afraid of the alligators. Anyways one weekend we had a trip planned out for Saturday morning, but at the last minute my parents needed us to come over and prevent a tree limb from hitting their house. We were all packed up ready to go when the call came in, and being the amazing guy he is, my husband dropped everything to go over there and help them. He spent all day carefully cutting the tree and bundling the branches for them.
At the end of the day when we were driving back to our apartment I made an off hand comment about seeing a friend of mine at Sunday service, and then he edged in that since he spent the day cutting a tree for my parents he thought that the crabbing trip was being moved to Sunday, in lieu of church. I was so wrong, but I told him no. I told him that church is a priority and that we were going. That ignite a huge fight. He was very angry and started cussing and yelling that he gave up his fun day to do something for my parents and that this wasn't fair. I countered with how we need to put God first in our relationship and that this wasn't God's fault that he didn't get to go crabbing so it isn't right to "punish" God by skipping church. We fought through the night and I wore him down until he agreed to go and in exchange I promised him we can go to the canal the next two Saturdays in a row.
We went to church that Sunday and he was a compete pill. He refused to stand for worship, he just sat with his arms crossed during the prayer, he refused to make an offering, and he refused to turn and greet the person next to him. It was extremely embarrassing and I felt there were eyes on both of us. After that extremely uncomfortable service we fought again about his attitude and we pretty much resolved it when he stated that he would treat church the same way he treats his job.
As for my promise that we could go to the canal the next 2 consecutive Saturdays, hurricane Ike hit later that week. Not only did we not go that Saturday but the storm surge ruined the gravel road along side that canal and it never reopened. My husband was extremely upset. Instead of showing him the empathy I should have it was in my mind that he shouldn't have been as upset as he was since we knew people who lost homes. So like always I dragged him with me to church forced him to participate in the church out reach and recovery activists and I just tried to ignore his increasingly sullen resentful behavior. His attitude was didn't go unnoticed by other church members either. When asked why he was so bitter, seeing as how our home and families were unscathed he told everyone who asked that he missed out on the last chance he could have gone to his beloved canal because of "stupid church". One of the more zealous youth pastors took offense to that and confronted him by telling him that maybe he was treating crabbing as an idol and that this was an opportunity for him to reassess his spiritual priorities (insinuating that God may have took away the canal to punish his lack of commitment to Christ). I guess my husband snapped and he cold cocked that man leading to him being arrested and charged with simple assult.
After he got out of jail we had another huge fight which resulted in him grabbing his stuff and moving out. He told me that he couldn't live this way anymore. I was sure he would come back but hours turned into days and days turned into weeks and he neither called nor did he come home. He was gone for about a month before I started stalking him on face book. At first I was very angry but then I was just sad, we were married about 3 months at this time and it felt like it all fell apart. I cried myself to sleep most nights and finally after about a month I started stalking him on face book. Most of those nights I just told myself that he was just as sad and that he would be home any minute. I was shocked when I saw on face book that he seemed happier without me. There were so many pictures of him on the beach with friends I never seen before, he was just having a blast while I was crying every night. Part of me wanted to end things but I knew divorce was a sin and I felt that I had to do everything I could to save my marriage.
I went to the senior pastor of my church and bared my soul to him over this matter. I honestly wish I spoke to him much much earlier about my husband's resentment towards church. That man in his patience and wisdom showed me how I was the sister with the plank in her eye when I was trying to remove the spec from my husband's . He helped me understand how wrong I was trying to be a traffic cop to wrangle a grown man to go to church. I felt that in that session my eyes were opened to how damaging my own behavior was.
That night I wrote a long letter to my husband promising that if he were to come home he will be the one who is in charge of his own spiritual growth. I wrote to him that under no circumstance will he be compelled to go to church or any other form if fellowship until he is ready to make the decision for him self. I said that he is always welcome and wanted but ultimately it is his own decision to make.
He came home about a week after that. That is exactly how we lived for the last 10 years and we were both happy. He didn't stop me from going to church and while I went to church he went four wheeling, fishing, mudding and stuff like that. Then when we had our child he was an amazing dad. The only thing more I could ask for was that he contribute to the spiritual growth of our son. He never stood in the way of me taking our son to church he just considered church/God/Christianity to be my "thing".
This has worked out until now when or son wants to be like his dad and forgo church too. I respect that my husband is a grown man and he is mature enough to make his own decisions, but like another poster said a child of 8 is a bit to young to be deciding where he does or doesn't want to be especially when it comes to matters if faith. That's why I was wondering if any order patents attend church without their SO and how they handle the whole "if daddy doesn't go why should i?" Or " dad says I don't have to go".
 
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RaymondG

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Of course I agree with that. But how do I do this in practice? He is also the son of my husband and my husband refuses to make church and bible study part of the rules. He says that it is hypocritical for him to enforce my rules concerning church on our son if he doesn't enforce them on him self. When u asked him to just do this for me because it is important to me, he dredged up an old promise I made to him years ago when I promised him that under no circumstance would I ever try to empose church or any other trapping of Christianity ever again and that matters of his personal faith are his to decid alone (and yes I stupidly put this all in writing )
Also about a child of 8 deciding where he wants to go, he decides that he would rather spend time with his dad rather than going to church and his dad flat out refuses to tell him that daddy is busy and he needs to go to church with mommy. Last Sunday when I told our son to get ready for church he just clung to his dad and said he wants to go have fun with daddy instead. I went to church alone again and they went four wheeling
Ideally this discipline and rules would have started well before the age of five. Rule one, if you are told to do something, you do it without talking back. After being told to get ready for church, there is only one option after that.......do what you were told. This is not about spirituality or church....it is just respect and honor for your parents......this has to be taught.. The same applies with school...or any other place. IF you say get ready to go to school....it would not be wise to allow the child to decide for themselves that they dont want to go.....and maybe illegal.

I have no experience with trying to instill this respect after the age of five, but I would guess that maybe adding certain incentives, or rewards for listening...may help......make it just as fun/rewarding to go to church as it is to stay home........maybe stop by a toy store after, or ice cream....

In the mean time...there are many children bible movies that can be bought to watch at home........I have and over 50 and my children have watch them many times and enjoy watching them........this could help your child learn the main concepts of the bible while not in service.....
 
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You have said yourself that your husband is a fine man in every way other than being non-religious. Could your son not grow up to be a fine man without religion also? Why do you (and others on this thread) assume that you are correct in attempting to force your son to go to church and your husband wrong?

The US is by far the most religious first world country (I'm a Canadian living in the US) yet it has terrible problems with violence, racism, wage gap, people without access to health care, the highest incarceration rate in the world. Religion does not automatically make people good. Religious people are not better than non-religious people.

Your son is still young, he could change his mind on this and other things 10 times before he reaches 16. Bashing him over the head with this isn't helping your cause. Of course as an athiest I don't want you be successful in your attempts to force religion on your son. But as a husband and father I don't want to see you jeopardize your relationships with your husband and son because of your religious zeal. Would that be worth it?
 
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RaymondG

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You have said yourself that your husband is a fine man in every way other than being non-religious. Could your son not grow up to be a fine man without religion also? Why do you (and others on this thread) assume that you are correct in attempting to force your son to go to church and your husband wrong?

The US is by far the most religious first world country (I'm a Canadian living in the US) yet it has terrible problems with violence, racism, wage gap, people without access to health care, the highest incarceration rate in the world. Religion does not automatically make people good. Religious people are not better than non-religious people.

Your son is still young, he could change his mind on this and other things 10 times before he reaches 16. Bashing him over the head with this isn't helping your cause. Of course as an athiest I don't want you be successful in your attempts to force religion on your son. But as a husband and father I don't want to see you jeopardize your relationships with your husband and son because of your religious zeal. Would that be worth it?
"athiest" is a religion as well.....which is why you are against other religions.......If you have no religion, you wouldn't care whether or not others had one...... you would be completely neutral. So since you wish to push others to your side....prefer that others are not successful in winning them to there side.....you are the same as the religious ones you speak of.

The OPer husband seem to be more neutral and not part of any group like you are.

What do you feel about forcing a child to go to school? Do you believe that they should have the freedom to not go....since there are many who are successful without it?
 
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This may sound harsh but I will say it.

Your husband may be a fine and loving man but he is not a Christian.

As such - he cannot to function as the “Spiritual leader” of your household. It sounds like he knows this and accepts it for now.

You must accept that he is UNABLE to fulfill this duty because of unbelief - not unwilling. Since he is unable to fulfill the duty - it falls on you.

I applaud him for his honesty - because he could easily lie to you and go through the motions to appease you... That’s a worse solution. You do not want to push him to lie to you to quiet you down...

A second part of this is also that you are still a family and he is still your husband. Spending time with him and your son doing “fun stuff” is a very strong outreach. Love on your family and accept that God is working. If that means skipping some church days to have family time - then do it. Perhaps get involved with the Women’s group Bible Study at your church to make sure you are being fed and staying active in fellowship.

Avoid making “pious grandstands” as they generally backfire.

Another thing to consider is your church denomination/sect. Some denominations are quite “strict” on outward behavior. They may condemn or look down on hunting, fishing, four wheeling, dirt biking, outdoorsman activities, hobby club activities, and social drinking. Other denominations are much more accepting of these things - and that can provide a good outreach towards him.
 
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StromRider

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"athiest" is a religion as well.....

As someone once said, athiesm is to religion as bald is to hair colour.

If you have no religion, you wouldn't care whether or not others had one...... you would be completely neutral.

I could care less what religion any person has. The problem is, in the US in particular, that christians have had things their way for so long they just can't see how non-christians are affected. Stop trying to push religious beliefs into the laws of the land that all must follow and you wouldn't hear a peep from people like me.

So since you wish to push others to your side....prefer that others are not successful in winning them to there side.....you are the same as the religious ones you speak of.

So being honest is bad? Who doesn't want 'their side' to win? :)

The OPer husband seem to be more neutral and not part of any group like you are.

We haven't heard from the op's husband and which group am I a part of?

What do you feel about forcing a child to go to school?

False equivalence.
 
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Wow, that was quite a background, Alone. What a story, and I appreciate the utter transparency in your sharing it. Praise the Lord for the pastor who had the wisdom to redirect your viewpoint.

You are facing a common scenario in a marriage: a conflict that both spouses have strong, opposing and emotionally invested viewpoints. When one spouse forces their way on another, eventually it backfires, as you have seen. However, when each spouse lives in opposition to each other's dearest desire, it causes "lovebusters", or withdrawals from the other person's love account.

The best way to resolve this is to come to a solution you're mutually enthusiastic about, where you both get your way. For example, consider some of these angles:
--Could your husband do his mudding/fishing/etc with your son on Saturday instead of Sunday? Is there anything you can do for him that would free up his Saturdays?
--Could you and your husband set up an agreement on what happens if your son defies one or the other. regardless of the topic?
--Could you and your husband come to a common ground on how much church is too much for your son? Maybe just one service per week, or one per month, or???
--What about having a house church, comprised of just you and your son at an hour different than the mudding excursions? The early church was comprised of house churches. You and he could spend time in the Bible in a way that challenges his curiosity and intrigues his interest. If you are having "too" much fun in your studies, perhaps your husband may join in once in a while.

Sometimes our filters don't allow us to stop and consider other angles that are out there. If you and your husband brainstorm in a safe way (no one will be punished or morally judged for not agreeing with the other's predetermined outcome), then resolving conflicts can become a building block for a great marriage instead of a detriment to them.

Here are some great articles on arriving at mutually enthusiastic outcomes. My husband and I follow them carefully. We have some significant conflicts in our practice of faith and our doctrines, but following the idea that neither of us has the moral ground to demand the other (full grown adults each entitled to our liberty), we look for solutions that work for each of us, or we table it until another time and discuss some more. Always, the discussions are ministering to the other to ensure they are enthusiastic about the resolution, and if they are not, we keep brainstorming.

The Policy of Joint Agreement
The Giver & Taker
 
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tall73

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You already came to the acknowledgment that forcing your husband was not a good solution. It won't be a better solution with your son.

It sounds like the activities they enjoy are primarily outdoors. Some churches have Saturday night services, or Sunday night services. You could go to the activities with them and then go to a service later when they wouldn't be doing as many outdoor activities. If they still don't want to go, then I would not force them. Forcing to go to church doesn't make a Christian. It has to be something they choose.

Pray for them. If they are open to a family devotional time in the evening once ore more than once a week, that may be an option as well until they are interested in more.
 
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You have said yourself that your husband is a fine man in every way other than being non-religious. Could your son not grow up to be a fine man without religion also? Why do you (and others on this thread) assume that you are correct in attempting to force your son to go to church and your husband wrong?

The US is by far the most religious first world country (I'm a Canadian living in the US) yet it has terrible problems with violence, racism, wage gap, people without access to health care, the highest incarceration rate in the world. Religion does not automatically make people good. Religious people are not better than non-religious people.

Your son is still young, he could change his mind on this and other things 10 times before he reaches 16. Bashing him over the head with this isn't helping your cause. Of course as an athiest I don't want you be successful in your attempts to force religion on your son. But as a husband and father I don't want to see you jeopardize your relationships with your husband and son because of your religious zeal. Would that be worth it?
As an athiest you may not be aware that salvation is not based on being a good guy. Salvation is based on knowingly and willingly accepting Jesus Christ as your personal savior. You may disagree with me but I feel that children should be educated in faith much like they are educated in mathematics, science, civics, and the like.
 
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You already came to the acknowledgment that forcing your husband was not a good solution. It won't be a better solution with your son.

It sounds like the activities they enjoy are primarily outdoors. Some churches have Saturday night services, or Sunday night services. You could go to the activities with them and then go to a service later when they wouldn't be doing as many outdoor activities. If they still don't want to go, then I would not force them. Forcing to go to church doesn't make a Christian. It has to be something they choose.

Pray for them. If they are open to a family devotional time in the evening once ore more than once a week, that may be an option as well until they are interested in more.
so far I haven't pushed the issue much more. I am just concerned, especially since I have seen how much happier or son is without church in his life. Yesterday his dad took him to a haunted house in lieu of the prayer lock in our church was having and he came back beaming about how much fun it was and how good a time he had.
I am just scared that he is too young to decide that he doesn't want Christ or fellowship in his life.
 
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RaymondG

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As someone once said, athiesm is to religion as bald is to hair colour.

False equivalence.

With no God, there is no Atheism.....and Atheism depends on the beliefs of those in religion.....without the religious God, there could be not Atheists.

I could care less what religion any person has. The problem is, in the US in particular, that christians have had things their way for so long they just can't see how non-christians are affected. Stop trying to push religious beliefs into the laws of the land that all must follow and you wouldn't hear a peep from people like me.

If you didnt care you would not hope that one is unsuccessful in their attempts to convert. I happen to agree with your assertions on pushing religion on others. I do not agree that bringing your children to your church with you, is pushing religion on them... In a lot of causes, leaving them home alone under a certain age is against the law....so they have to come with you if you are going. Taking my children to work with me isnt pushing my job on them......taking them to church isnt pushing a religion.

So being honest is bad? Who doesn't want 'their side' to win? :)
I am more spiritual than religious.....therefore, I am not quick to calls things good or bad.... I do not want my side to win....I want all to win and believe we will....eventually

We haven't heard from the op's husband and which group am I a part of?

Yes, which is why I said "seem." Base on the info we have, he doesnt desire to go to church and doesnt care if others desire it... You are part of a group that has an opinion of the christian God......that it is false or doesnt exist.....much like some of the other religious groups.....yours is just a different name.


False equivalence.
Not really.....There are some who feel the same about school that you feel about church......Should we push the belief of a school requirement to those that do not believe in it? If so.....is this a bad thing, or can it be understood as a requirement for now that can be easily dismissed, if desired, by the child once he is no longer a child?

(-cool bike in your profile picture....is it yours?....how many ccS? Im going to get a license next riding season.....what first bike would you recommend?)
 
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--Could your husband do his mudding/fishing/etc with your son on Saturday instead of Sunday? Is there anything you can do for him that would free up his Saturdays?
This has never really been an issue even when my husband was going to church. In fact I use to say that he had 48 hours worth of weekend why can't he spend 3 every Sunday morning devoted to God. He isn't particularly busy in Saturdays, for my husband it is more about not being dragged some where he doesn't want to be.
--Could you and your husband set up an agreement on what happens if your son defies one or the other. regardless of the topic?
I tried that but he says that he thinks it would be hypocritical for him to say our son has to go if he doesn't.
--What about having a house church, comprised of just you and your son at an hour different than the mudding excursions? The early church was comprised of house churches. You and he could spend time in the Bible in a way that challenges his curiosity and intrigues his interest. If you are having "too" much fun in your studies, perhaps your husband may join in once in a while.
This is something I am trying but is difficult. Our son is completely uninterested and dad won't even put his foot down and tell our son to just tat this line he treats home work.
Some denominations are quite “strict” on outward behavior. They may condemn or look down on hunting, fishing, four wheeling, dirt biking, outdoorsman activities, hobby club activities, and social drinking.
Funny you should say this, the church I grew up in was this way. The pastor actually justified it by saying that non Christians will judge us by our outward behavior and that as Christians we have a responsibility to show outwardly our devotion so we can be looked upon as an example. This is one of the reasons I felt so justified in my youth to drag my husband to church against his will. The church I attend now has some elements that are that way (the youth pastor my husband punched for example ) but for the most part every one else is pretty relaxed and accepting of the need for hobbies and non religious interests.
 
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tall73

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so far I haven't pushed the issue much more. I am just concerned, especially since I have seen how much happier or son is without church in his life. Yesterday his dad took him to a haunted house in lieu of the prayer lock in our church was having and he came back beaming about how much fun it was and how good a time he had.
I am just scared that he is too young to decide that he doesn't want Christ or fellowship in his life.

You will never out-fun activities with church. He won't be convinced by being forced. You have to live your faith so truly that he wants what you have.
 
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StromRider

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Yesterday his dad took him to a haunted house in lieu of the prayer lock in our church was having

I have no idea what that involves but the very term 'prayer lock in' does not scream 'let's have a good time' to me :)

I am just scared that he is too young to decide that he doesn't want Christ or fellowship in his life.

Converely, wouldn't that mean he is too young to decide he does want Christ or fellowship in his life? What child could begin to understand such things at that age?
 
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