A verse I don't see preached and explained. God Answered.

justbyfaith said:

If we are new creatures in Christ for that we have received Him, we will be obedient to the admonitions that you have mentioned above.

PS Be sure to understand that Philippians 2:12 tells us to work out our salvation with fear and trembling; not to work for it.

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It's not work for it because you already have you salvation. It's like saying you already have a healthy body but if you don't "work out" you will lose that healthy body.

Not all are able to fast. I have hypoglycemia, fasting is not something I should ever do.

nanookadenord said:

Not all are able to fast. I have hypoglycemia, fasting is not something I should ever do.

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In my church you talk to the priest to know how much you can do. Fasting could also mean stop eating something you like.

justbyfaith said:

If we are new creatures in Christ for that we have received Him, we will be obedient to the admonitions that you have mentioned above.

PS Be sure to understand that Philippians 2:12 tells us to work out our salvation with fear and trembling; not to work for it.

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Yes although clearly Paul was admonishing believers as was Peter in his letters . Obviously we must be born again by the will of God and not man for man did not send His only begotten Son ..and from personal experience I did not seek God but he sought me ... but also Jesus spoke to believers in Revelation that repentance was needed by the believing body . Do you suppose the church was born again luke warm or did they acclimate to the temperature around them ? Israel did this in Psalms 106: 34-39 ...Maybe lacked carefulness because they "got saved " . Paul was clear that all of these things happened to them for our admonition ...take heed you who think you stand less you fall ...and Paul ...I do not count myself to have apprehended but this one thing that I do ....
And the working out is I believe the sanctification part which is God's will to perform . I think about the fruit tree which was not bearing fruit ... It is interesting that we are taught ...instructed , told to love one another but divine love is a gift but apparently love can be encouraged ...nurtured ...there are many parables containing exhortations of the striving verses seeking ...It is not lost on me that believers are sometimes cast into outer darkness and that faith and belief are not synonyms . I live in the south and it is very common for saved people to live a life of careless pursuit of the world provided they are good americans , attend church and love their country ...it has become another gospel . Maybe this is what the OP was referring . It is my concern anyway.

Always seemed kind of obvious what Jesus meant. Jesus also says that that no one can serve two masters, He also says what does it profit someone to gain the whole world but forfeit their soul, and also that whoever keeps his life shall lose it, but whoever gives it away shall find it.

To deny oneself is straight forward. It means to deny ourselves, that we don't come first. That our calling as the people of Jesus Christ is to lay down our lives in love, sacrifice, and serve toward others. It's what St. Paul says, "regard others more highly than yourselves". Or what the Lord Himself says in the Sermon, that we should turn the other cheek, repay no one evil for evil, to bless those who curse us, to pray for those who persecute us, to love our enemies, to give without asking anything in return. To be merciful even as our Father is merciful, for He is kind to the thankless and the wicked, sending His rain upon the just and the unjust alike.

Fasting can be part of this, fasting is part of the Christian walk after all. But it's not the be-all, end-all of the cross-shaped life Jesus calls us to live here in the world. After all pious acts without love are meaningless. If I fast, but ignore the "weightier matters" such as mercy and justice, then I am nothing but a hypocrite. That wouldn't be denying myself, that would be glorifying myself and thinking myself righteous--as though abstaining from food and drink could bring me closer to God and His righteousness. Fasting is a good and ancient practice of the Church, but it's just one practice among many, and the heart of the Coram Hominibus (how we live out our Christianity into the world) is the Great Commandment: That we love our neighbors as ourselves.

To echo St. Paul: If I fast, but have not love, then I have nothing.

-CryptoLutheran

NeedyFollower said:

Yes although clearly Paul was admonishing believers as was Peter in his letters . Obviously we must be born again by the will of God and not man for man did not send His only begotten Son ..and from personal experience I did not seek God but he sought me ... but also Jesus spoke to believers in Revelation that repentance was needed by the believing body . Do you suppose the church was born again luke warm or did they acclimate to the temperature around them ? Israel did this in Psalms 106: 34-39 ...Maybe lacked carefulness because they "got saved " . Paul was clear that all of these things happened to them for our admonition ...take heed you who think you stand less you fall ...and Paul ...I do not count myself to have apprehended but this one thing that I do ....
And the working out is I believe the sanctification part which is God's will to perform . I think about the fruit tree which was not bearing fruit ... It is interesting that we are taught ...instructed , told to love one another but divine love is a gift but apparently love can be encouraged ...nurtured ...there are many parables containing exhortations of the striving verses seeking ...It is not lost on me that believers are sometimes cast into outer darkness and that faith and belief are not synonyms . I live in the south and it is very common for saved people to live a life of careless pursuit of the world provided they are good americans , attend church and love their country ...it has become another gospel . Maybe this is what the OP was referring . It is my concern anyway.

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We are saved by grace through faith; and that not of ourselves: it is the gift of God: not of works, lest any man should boast...however some people take this to mean that they can call themselves Christians when they have not been made into new creatures in Christ (2 Corinthians 5:17). When a person is born again, there is a change of attitude that takes place...he or she begins to love whereas before he or she was either a hater or indifferent. So love is something that the Bible says, when it is true, it is not in word or in tongue only but in deed and in truth (1 John 3:17-18). Therefore faith without works is indeed dead; because while we receive the Holy Spirit through faith alone (Galatians 3:14); we receive love via the Holy Ghost (Romans 5:5) and the love of God is never impractical.

I have never given much though to how I can help Jesus complete his job of saving me.

I put myself in his hands and I trust that he knows the way home.

I must say I find it quite fascinating that evangelicals think the know how their preachers should preach and that they know all.

Stormy said:

I have never given much though to how I can help Jesus complete his job of saving me.

I put myself in his hands and I trust that he knows the way home.

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Amen, salvation is by faith in Jesus Christ apart from works (Romans 4:6).

David Cabrera said:

It's not work for it because you already have you salvation. It's like saying you already have a healthy body but if you don't "work out" you will lose that healthy body.

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It's more like the working out of a math problem, such as 2 + 1 + 1 = 4. The 4 is the established answer (salvation); but you must add the doctrines of salvation (the first 2) to faith that is of the heart (the first 1) and confession of the Lordship of Jesus Christ (the second 1); which results in real righteousness and salvation (see Romans 10:10).

Or, 2 (doctrines of salvation) + 2 (our heart's response) = 4 (salvation).

justbyfaith said:

It's more like the working out of a math problem, such as 2 + 1 + 1 = 4. The 4 is the established answer (salvation); but you must add the doctrines of salvation (the first 2) to faith that is of the heart (the first 1) and confession of the Lordship of Jesus Christ (the second 1); which results in real righteousness and salvation (see Romans 10:10).

Or, 2 (doctrines of salvation) + 2 (our heart's response) = 4 (salvation).

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Which has nothing to do with the work out idea. You just changed it because you notice that working out still means preserving salvation, specially when the Epistle was written to true believers.

David Cabrera said:

It's not work for it because you already have you salvation. It's like saying you already have a healthy body but if you don't "work out" you will lose that healthy body.

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Has nothing to do with what it truly means to "work out your salvation with fear and trembling."

David Cabrera said:

Which has nothing to do with the work out idea. You just changed it because you notice that working out still means preserving salvation, specially when the Epistle was written to true believers.

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I certainly didn't change anything. I received the concept that I gave directly from an anointed message that I heard at a Bible College, which settled once and for all in my mind that Philippians 2:12 does not translate into "salvation by works" which would be contrary to Ephesians 2:8-9, Romans 4:1-8, Romans 11:5-6, and Titus 3:4-7.

justbyfaith said:

I certainly didn't change anything. I received the concept that I gave directly from an anointed message that I heard at a Bible College, which settled once and for all in my mind that Philippians 2:12 does not translate into "salvation by works" which would be contrary to Ephesians 2:8-9, Romans 4:1-8, Romans 11:5-6, and Titus 3:4-7.

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Once again, you are creating a strawman because I don't believe in Salvation by works but Salvation by Faith with Works

David Cabrera said:

Once again, you are creating a strawman because I don't believe in Salvation by works but Salvation by Faith with Works

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Salvation is by faith apart from works, Romans 4:5-6.

justbyfaith said:

Salvation is by faith apart from works, Romans 4:5-6.

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It is such a simple concept that gets so twisted. Works are evidence of salvation, not a road map to it.

justbyfaith said:

We are saved by grace through faith; and that not of ourselves: it is the gift of God: not of works, lest any man should boast...however some people take this to mean that they can call themselves Christians when they have not been made into new creatures in Christ (2 Corinthians 5:17). When a person is born again, there is a change of attitude that takes place...he or she begins to love whereas before he or she was either a hater or indifferent. So love is something that the Bible says, when it is true, it is not in word or in tongue only but in deed and in truth (1 John 3:17-18). Therefore faith without works is indeed dead; because while we receive the Holy Spirit through faith alone (Galatians 3:14); we receive love via the Holy Ghost (Romans 5:5) and the love of God is never impractical.

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Yes ...I know exactly what you mean but love ...real sacrificial love has a cost and of course truth is a form of both love and mercy ...and a means of grace to others . For example ..John the Baptist's love cost him his head ..It is not lawful for you to have your brother Philip's wife ...This was true and John did not tell Herod that for his own sake but for Herod's sake ( and maybe for his wife's sake . ) To love can be grievous as Paul expressed ...For many walk , of whom I have told you often and tell you now with tears , are enemies of the cross of Christ , whose end is destruction, whose God is their belly, who glory in their shame and who mind earthly things . " I liken the new birth for me anyways as full of joy but almost always full of concern ...sometimes overwhelmingly so ....metaphorically it would be easy to spend your day enjoying fishing until your eyes are opened and you see people drowning all around you . This is where I am ...Love does that .

justbyfaith said:

Salvation is by faith apart from works, Romans 4:5-6.

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Aparts of works of the law, how many times I have shown if you choose to do the will of the flesh then your faith is worthless.

Phil 1:21 said:

It is such a simple concept that gets so twisted. Works are evidence of salvation, not a road map to it.

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No, they are not. I can believe and still sin, you are just twisting the verse interpretation.