Neither hot nor cold

AMM · Oct 28, 2018

Father talked about the churches Revelation today, especially the Laodiceans. He said that more than anything, God hates and despises the lukewarm. He then said that God would rather we love him or hate him than that we be in the middle, and that more than anything else in the world he hates those who are neutral. Is that correct?

HTacianas · Oct 28, 2018

AMM said:
Father talked about the churches Revelation today, especially the Laodiceans. He said that more than anything, God hates and despises the lukewarm. He then said that God would rather we love him or hate him than that we be in the middle, and that more than anything else in the world he hates those who are neutral. Is that correct?

That sounds like a good point to bring up for edification. Jesus said of the Laodiceans:

Rev 3:15 - “I know your works, that you are neither cold nor hot. I could wish you were cold or hot.

Rev 3:16 - “So then, because you are lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will vomit you out of My mouth.

It seems he's right.

AMM · Oct 28, 2018

HTacianas said:
That sounds like a good point to bring up for edification. Jesus said of the Laodiceans:

Rev 3:15 - “I know your works, that you are neither cold nor hot. I could wish you were cold or hot.

Rev 3:16 - “So then, because you are lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will vomit you out of My mouth.

It seems he's right.

So does God hate agnostics and inquirers more than the vitriolic atheists who attack Christ's church and cause little children to stumble?

HTacianas · Oct 28, 2018

AMM said:
So does God hate agnostics and inquirers more than the vitriolic atheists who attack Christ's church and cause little children to stumble?

In a hyperbolic sort of way I suppose. Vitriolic atheists I suppose will be dealt with, but they will not be "spued" anyplace. They aren't in the Church so there's no where to spue them from.

AMM · Oct 28, 2018

HTacianas said:
In a hyperbolic sort of way I suppose. Vitriolic atheists I suppose will be dealt with, but they will not be "spued" anyplace. They aren't in the Church so there's no where to spue them from.

agnostics aren't in the Church either though, so by your reasoning, there's no where to spew them from either

ArmyMatt · Oct 28, 2018

in a sense yes. there is no neutral ground in the spiritual life, and no state is worse than to think one is on the road to heaven, when actually headed to hell.

JohnB445 · Oct 28, 2018

Laodicea reminds me of these mega-churches with their sinner's prayer and prosperity gospels.

Rubricnigel · Oct 28, 2018

AMM said:
So does God hate agnostics and inquirers more than the vitriolic atheists who attack Christ's church and cause little children to stumble?

I'd say theres nothing worse in Gods eye than someone who tries to lead others into a sinful life. Atheists are evil because they tell the little ones morality is subjective.
Not to mention the famous quote, "Do as thou wilst, will be the only law", That alot of atheists live by.

Today was a good sermon

~Anastasia~ · Oct 28, 2018

I don't think I would say "God hates those people".

But it can be useful to understand some really dangerous spiritual grounds. I have worried for years about folks who think they already have their "heaven ticket" punched and so ... don't really do much of anything to live their faith. (Responding to Fr. Matt's comment here.)

I have also had a friend interested in ministry in a non-Christian Asian culture, and he comments about how people aren't opposed to the Gospel, but they certainly don't embrace. They simply have no interest and it's completely irrelevant to their lives, as far as they think. They have the ancestors, they have science, and there is no room for any God or faith. He's been involved in ministry in different environments, and this one seems the toughest he has encountered.

Angry atheists are arguing for a reason - some of them are wrestling with God and are closer than they want to think. But indifference is hard to make headway with.

Kristos · Oct 30, 2018

I don't think hot necessarily means good and cold means bad. Seems more about lukewarm being some sort of mixture - not straight from the spring. Cold from cold spring, hot from a hot spring. It's pure from the source - living water. Lukewarm has been sitting around, perhaps stale, a mixture of waters from different sources. I don't know...

Jesus4Madrid · Oct 30, 2018

AMM said:
So does God hate agnostics and inquirers more than the vitriolic atheists who attack Christ's church and cause little children to stumble?

I am not sure that is a fair interpretation. The Church of Laodicea was a church, in what is now Turkey, and under the authority of St. Paul. This was not a group of inquirers.

The obvious warning is directed to the Church. When the Church becomes like the world, when it fails to account for sin, it loses its salt and light and capacity to heal. It’s like a hospital that refuses to recognise sickness and thus sees no reason to heal people. A church that no longer heals us and no longer draws us closer to God is an offence to God and to other Christians.

icxn · Oct 30, 2018

St Gregory the Theologian iirc interpreted the cold person as one who diligently tries to avoid sin, hence is cold towards sin. Hot is the person who is diligent in doing God's will, i.e. not only avoids sin, but also 'burns' with the love of God. So the lukewarm person is not exactly someone in an intermediate state as described above, but someone who finds pleasure in some sin and at the same time is negligent in doing God's will.

AMM · Oct 30, 2018

Jesus4Madrid said:
I am not sure that is a fair interpretation. The Church of Laodicea was a church, in what is now Turkey, and under the authority of St. Paul. This was not a group of inquirers.

The obvious warning is directed to the Church. When the Church becomes like the world, when it fails to account for sin, it loses its salt and light and capacity to heal. It’s like a hospital that refuses to recognise sickness and thus sees no reason to heal people. A church that no longer heals us and no longer draws us closer to God is an offence to God and to other Christians.

now thats interesting. Makes sense though - they are Christians that are lukewarm, not just random people in the region

icxn said:
St Gregory the Theologian iirc interpreted the cold person as one who diligently tries to avoid sin, hence is cold towards sin. Hot is the person who is diligent in doing God's will, i.e. not only avoids sin, but also 'burns' with the love of God. So the lukewarm person is not exactly someone in an intermediate state as described above, but someone who finds pleasure in some sin and at the same time is negligent in doing God's will.

this makes me think of the desert father quote that we should read all things in scripture as relating to ourselves -- this isn't about "those darned agnostics that can't pick a side!", it's about me -- I do God's will sometime, but far from all the time, and I stay away from some sins, but some of them I always return to - I'm the sinner, not someone else

Neither hot nor cold

A Beggar

Well-Known Member

A Beggar

Well-Known Member

A Beggar

Regular Member

Well-Known Member

Active Member

† Handmaid of God †

Servant

Orthodox Christian

Bραδύγλωσσος αἰπόλος μαθητεύων κνίζειν συκάμινα

A Beggar

Similar threads