Save everyone?

Der Alter said:

What about God’s enemies who are made a footstool for Jesus?

Isa 110:1
Of David. A psalm. The LORD says to my lord: "Sit at my right hand until I make your enemies a footstool for your feet."Mat 22:44, Mar 12:36, Luk 20:43, Act 2:35

Jos 10:24 And it came to pass, when they brought out those kings unto Joshua, that Joshua called for all the men of Israel, and said unto the captains of the men of war which went with him, Come near, put your feet upon the necks of these kings. And they came near, and put their feet upon the necks of them.
​

When enemy kings were captured they were forced to their knees and the conquerors would place their feet on the back of their necks.

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1 Cor.15:25 For He must reign until He has put all His enemies under His feet.

How many will be "under His feet"? Just enemies or all:

1 Cor.15:27 For “He has put in subjection all under His feet.” But when it may be said that all has been put in subjection, it is evident that the One having put in subjection all to Him is excepted.

So there is only one exception to "all" to be "put...under his feet". Then God will be "in" "all", hence universal salvation:

1 Cor.15:28 And when all shall be subjected unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all under him, that God may be all in all.

Der Alter said:

Dan 12:2 Multitudes who sleep in the dust of the earth will awake: some to everlasting life, others to shame and everlasting contempt.
​

Dan 12:2 does not say “other shall awake to shame and everlasting shame then they will have everlasting life.

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In the Greek Old Testament (LXX, Septuagint) of Isaiah 54:4 the word aionios appears and is used of finite duration:

4 You should not fear that you were disgraced, nor should you feel ashamed that you were berated. For shame everlasting(aionios) you shall forget; and the scorn of your widowhood in no way shall you remember any longer (Apostolic Bible Polygot, LXX)

The same phrase, and Greek words, for "shame everlasting"(aionios) in Isa.54:4 occur again at Dan.12:2 LXX, which i have higlighted within the brackets:

Dan.12:2 καὶ πολλοὶ τῶν καθευδόντων ἐν γῆς χώματι ἐξεγερθήσονται οὗτοι εἰς ζωὴν αἰώνιον καὶ οὗτοι εἰς ὀνειδισμὸν καὶ εἰς [αἰσχύνην αἰώνιον]

Isa.54:4 μὴ φοβοῦ ὅτι κατῃσχύνθης μηδὲ ἐντραπῇς ὅτι ὠνειδίσθης ὅτι [αἰσχύνην αἰώνιον] ἐπιλήσῃ καὶ ὄνειδος τῆς χηρείας σου οὐ μὴ μνησθήσῃ

Kata Biblon Wiki Lexicon - ??????? - shame/disgrace/dishonor (n.)

Strong's Greek: 152. αἰσχύνη (aischuné) -- shame

In Isa.54:4 aionios/eonian is finite: "For shame everlasting[eonian] you shall forget".

In that light we might consider that the exact same phrase from the LXX scholars, "shame everlasting [eonian]" in Dan.12:2, may also be finite.

The context of Dan.12:2 suggests the view that both the life & the punishment referred to in v.2 are of finite duration (OLAM), since v.3 speaks of those who will be for OLAM "and further".

2 From those sleeping in the soil of the ground many shall awake, these to eonian life
and these to reproach for eonian repulsion." 3 The intelligent shall warn as the warning
of the atmosphere, and those justifying many are as the stars for the eon and further."
(Dan.12:2-3, CLV)

The Hebrew word for eonian (v.2) & eon (v.3) above is OLAM which is often used of limited durations in the OT. In verse 3 of Dan. 12 are the words "OLAM and further" showing an example of its finite duration in the very next words after Dan. 12:2. Thus, in context, the OLAM occurences in v.2 could also both be understood as being of finite duration.

Additionally, the early church accepted the following Greek OT translation of the Hebrew OT of Dan. 12:3:

καὶ οἱ συνιέντες ἐκλάμψουσιν ὡς ἡ λαμπρότης τοῦ στερεώματος καὶ ἀπὸ τῶν δικαίων τῶν πολλῶν ὡς οἱ ἀστέρες εἰς τοὺς αἰῶνας καὶ ἔτι[and further]

Notice the words at the end saying KAI ETI, meaning "and further" or "and still" or "and yet" & other synonyms.

eti: "still, yet...Definition: (a) of time: still, yet, even now, (b) of degree: even, further, more, in addition." Strong's Greek: 2089. ἔτι (eti) -- still, yet

εἰς τοὺς αἰῶνας καὶ ἔτι means "into the ages and further" as a translation of the Hebrew L'OLAM WA ED[5703, AD]

So this early church Greek translation of the Hebrew Scriptures agrees with the above translation (& those below) using the words "and further", "futurity", "beyond" & similarly.

3 and·the·ones-being-intelligent they-shall- warn as·warning-of the·atmosphere
and·ones-leading-to-righteousness-of the·many-ones as·the·stars for·eon and·futurity (Dan. 12:3, Hebrew-English Interlinear)
http://www.scripture4all.org/OnlineInterlinear/OTpdf/dan12.pdf

2 and, many of the sleepers in the dusty ground, shall awake,—these, [shall be] to age-abiding life, but, those, to reproach, and age-abiding abhorrence;
3 and, they who make wise, shall shine like the shining of the expanse,—and, they who bring the many to righteousness, like the stars to times age-abiding and beyond. (Dan. 12:2-3, Rotherham)

2 And the multitude of those sleeping in the dust of the ground do awake, some to life age-during, and some to reproaches—to abhorrence age-during.
3 And those teaching do shine as the brightness of the expanse, and those justifying the multitude as stars to the age and for ever*. (Dan. 12:2-3, YLT)
* for "for ever" Young of YLT says substitute "age during" everywhere in Scripture: http://heraldmag.org/olb/Contents/bibles/ylt.pdf

Dan. 12:2-3 was the only Biblical reference to "life OLAM" Jesus listeners had to understand His meaning of "life aionios"(life OLAM) in Mt.25:46 & elsewhere in the New Testament.

Verse 3 speaks of those justifying "many". Who are these "many"? The same "many" of verse 2, including those who were resurrected to "shame" & "contempt"? IOW the passage affirms universalism?

https://www.tentmaker.org/books/hope_beyond_hell.pdf

Unique Proof For Christian, Biblical Universalism

Scholar's Corner: The Center for Bible studies in Christian Universalism

Der Alter said:

<WO>The resurrection shall see all people raised up and God has promised that all people shall declare that in Him alone they have righteousness and strength. That is the declaration of someone who BELIEVES in Jesus our righteousness...not the declaration of someone being forced to say it under threat of torture.
Isa 45:23 I have sworn by myself, the word is gone out of my mouth in righteousness, and shall not return, That unto me every knee shall bow, every tongue shall swear.
Isa 45:24 Surely, shall one say, in the LORD have I righteousness and strength: even to him shall men come; and all that are incensed against him shall be ashamed.
Flee the false god of eternal torment!!<end>

Isa 45:23-25
(23) I have sworn by myself, the word is gone out of my mouth in righteousness, and shall not return, That unto me every knee shall bow, every tongue shall swear.
(24) Surely, shall one say, in the LORD have I righteousness and strength: even to him shall men come; and all that are incensed against him shall be ashamed.
(25) In the LORD shall all the seed of Israel be justified, and shall glory.
​

Notice your proof text does not say “to him shall all men come.” It says “even to him shall men come.” Then it continues “all that are incensed against him shall be ashamed.” It does not say “they shall be ashamed then they come to him.”

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Rev.5:13 And every creature which is in heaven, and on the earth, and under the earth, and such as are on the sea, and all that are in them, heard I saying, Blessing, and honour, and glory, and power, be unto him that sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb for the eons of the eons.

Isa.45:21b and there is no God else beside me; a just God and a Saviour; there is none beside me. 22 Look unto me, and be ye saved, all the ends of the earth: for I am God, and there is none else. 23 I have sworn by myself, the word is gone out of my mouth in righteousness, and shall not return, That unto me every knee shall bow, every tongue shall swear.

Phil.2:9 For this reason also, God highly exalted Him, and bestowed on Him the name which is above every name, 10 so that IN the name of Jesus EVERY KNEE WILL BOW, of those who are in heaven and on earth and under the earth, 11 and that every tongue will confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.

"Keep in mind these 2 simple observations:

(1) The text In Isaiah 45:22-23 that inspires 2:9-11 uses the future tense.

(2) The other NT text referring to the worship of everyone “in heaven, on earth, and under the earth” presents a vision of what happens, not of what might happen (Rev. 5:13)."

Philippians 2:9-11 – ‘should’ vs ‘will’

"“In looking at Phil. 2:10, “That in the name of Jesus every knee should bow,”...“In the Name of Jesus” (Greek and R. V.) means more than simply using the name of Jesus. It signifies, according to the Hebrew idiom, in the very nature of Jesus. This implies not only a change of heart, but that He has bestowed His own nature and spirit. Besides, the confession is that “Jesus Christ is Lord.” No hypocritical confession will satisfy God. “No man can say that Jesus is the Lord, but by the Holy Ghost” (1Cor. 12:3). Further, Phil. 2:11 says that the confession is “to the glory of God the Father.” No confession compulsion and force would glorify God the Father.” The whole text implies a real change of heart to make this confession truly “in the Name of Jesus” and “to the glory of God the Father.” Note, further, that those who “bow” and “confess” are in heaven," “in earth,” and “under earth.” This includes the whole creation of God."

Is Hell Eternal? Or Will God's Plan Fail? Ch. 8 The Neglected Age

ClementofA said:

Rev.5:13 And every creature which is in heaven, and on the earth, and under the earth, and such as are on the sea, and all that are in them, heard I saying, Blessing, and honour, and glory, and power, be unto him that sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb for the eons of the eons.

Isa.45:21b and there is no God else beside me; a just God and a Saviour; there is none beside me. 22 Look unto me, and be ye saved, all the ends of the earth: for I am God, and there is none else. 23 I have sworn by myself, the word is gone out of my mouth in righteousness, and shall not return, That unto me every knee shall bow, every tongue shall swear.

Phil.2:9 For this reason also, God highly exalted Him, and bestowed on Him the name which is above every name, 10 so that IN the name of Jesus EVERY KNEE WILL BOW, of those who are in heaven and on earth and under the earth, 11 and that every tongue will confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.

"Keep in mind these 2 simple observations:

(1) The text In Isaiah 45:22-23 that inspires 2:9-11 uses the future tense.

(2) The other NT text referring to the worship of everyone “in heaven, on earth, and under the earth” presents a vision of what happens, not of what might happen (Rev. 5:13)."

Philippians 2:9-11 – ‘should’ vs ‘will’

"“In looking at Phil. 2:10, “That in the name of Jesus every knee should bow,”...“In the Name of Jesus” (Greek and R. V.) means more than simply using the name of Jesus. It signifies, according to the Hebrew idiom, in the very nature of Jesus. This implies not only a change of heart, but that He has bestowed His own nature and spirit. Besides, the confession is that “Jesus Christ is Lord.” No hypocritical confession will satisfy God. “No man can say that Jesus is the Lord, but by the Holy Ghost” (1Cor. 12:3). Further, Phil. 2:11 says that the confession is “to the glory of God the Father.” No confession compulsion and force would glorify God the Father.” The whole text implies a real change of heart to make this confession truly “in the Name of Jesus” and “to the glory of God the Father.” Note, further, that those who “bow” and “confess” are in heaven," “in earth,” and “under earth.” This includes the whole creation of God."

Is Hell Eternal? Or Will God's Plan Fail? Ch. 8 The Neglected Age

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Robertson Word Pictures=

Every created thing (παν κτισμα — pān ktisma). Every creature in a still wider antiphonal circle beyond the circle of angels (from κτιζω — ktizō for which see 1 Timothy 4:4; James 1:18), from all the four great fields of life (in heaven, upon the earth, under the earth as in Revelation 5:3, with on the sea επι της ταλασσης — epi tēs thalassēs added).

No created thing is left out. This universal chorus of praise to Christ from all created life reminds one of the profound mystical passage in Romans 8:20-22 concerning the sympathetic agony of creation (κτισις — ktisis) in hope of freedom from the bondage of corruption. If the trail of the serpent is on all creation, it will be ultimately thrown off.

Saying (λεγοντας — legontas). Masculine (construction according to sense, personifying the created things) if genuine, though some MSS. have λεγοντα — legonta (grammatical gender agreeing with παντα— panta) present active participle of λεγω — legō to say.


And to the Lamb (και τωι αρνιωι — kai tōi arniōi). Dative case. Praise and worship are rendered to the Lamb precisely as to God on the throne. Note separate articles here in the doxology as in Revelation 4:11and the addition of το κρατος — to kratos (active power) in place of ισχυς — ischus (reserve of strength) in Revelation 5:12.

Dear Clement:

What a glorious Hope we have! The whole of created life, shall be delivered/set free from the bondage of corruption! Not some of it, not anything short of "the whole", the ta panta, the all of created life!!!

Der Alter said:

<WO>God is the Father of all spirits. When He breathed Ruach into Adam, Adam's soul/body came alive. At death the spirit, which belongs to God returns to Him. The soul, which is not yet immortal awaits the resurrection spoken of in John 5. The soul of the wicked kings of Israel and Judah are said to be resting with their fathers in the grave.....along with the souls of the "good" kings. King Ahab rests with King David in the grave.....which the KJV has translated as HELL when it suits the propagandised mind of the translators.<end>
If you intend to convince others that their beliefs are incorrect and yours are correct, I can tell you that calling everyone who disagrees with you "propagandized" ain't the way
<WO>Furthermore, AFTER the cross, and AFTER the resurrection of Jesus..and AFTER Jesus' ascension Peter said that "David IS(present tense)both dead and buried and his tomb is with us to this day"---The man David(his soul and body)still rest in the grave(Sheol/Hades) to this day!! Oh you might say..."But I thought he was taken out of there by Jesus and taken up to Heaven??" Not according to Peter.
Act 2:29 Men and brethren, let me freely speak unto you of the patriarch David, that he is both dead and buried, and his sepulchre is with us unto this day. KJV<end>
While Peter's words are inspired by God, what Peter said in Acts 2:29 may only be Peter describing what he is able to discern with his five senses not necessarily "Thus saith the Lord."
<WO>NO ONE who has died is at this moment being tormented in any prison cells with burning flames tormenting them. <end>
…..In Isa 14 there is a long passage about the king of Babylon dying, according to many the dead know nothing. They are supposedly annihilated, destroyed, pfft, gone! But God, Himself, speaking, these dead people in שאול/sheol, know something, they move, meet the dead coming to sheol, stir up, raise up, speak and say, etc.

Isa 14:9-11 (KJV)
9) Hell [שאול ] from beneath is moved for thee to meet thee at thy coming: it stirreth up the dead for thee, even all the chief ones of the earth; it hath raised up from their thrones all the kings of the nations.
10) All they shall speak and say unto thee, Art thou also become weak as we? art thou become like unto us?
11) Thy pomp is brought down to the grave, [שאול] and the noise of thy viols: the worm is spread under thee, and the worms cover thee.
[ . . . ]
22) For I will rise up against them, saith the LORD of hosts, and cut off from Babylon the name, and remnant, and son, and nephew, saith the LORD.​

In this passage God, himself, is speaking, and I see a whole lot of shaking going on, moving, rising up, and speaking in . These dead people seem to know something, about something. We know that verses 11 through 14 describe actual historical events, the death of Nebuchadnezzar, king of Babylon.
…..Some will argue that this passage is figurative because fir trees don’t literally rejoice, vs. 8. They will argue that the passage must be figurative since God told Israel “take up this proverb against the king of Babylon.” vs. 4. The occurrence of one figurative expression in a passage does not prove that anything else in the passage is figurative.
…..The Hebrew word שאול/mashal translated “proverb” does not necessarily mean something is fictional. For example, Israel did not become fictional when God made them a mashal/proverb in 2 Chronicles 7:20, Psalms 44:14, and Jeremiah 24:9.
…..Here is another passage where God, Himself, is speaking and people who are dead in sheol, speaking, being ashamed, comforted, etc.

Ezek 32:18-22, 30-31 (KJV)
18) Son of man, [Ezekiel] wail for the multitude of Egypt, and cast them down, even her, and the daughters of the famous nations, unto the nether parts of the earth, with them that go down into the pit.
19) Whom dost thou pass in beauty? go down, and be thou laid with the uncircumcised.
20) They shall fall in the midst of them that are slain by the sword: she is delivered to the sword: draw her and all her multitudes.
21) The strong among the mighty shall speak to him out of the midst of hell [שאול] with them that help him: they are gone down, they lie uncircumcised, slain by the sword.
22) Asshur is there and all her company: his graves are about him: all of them slain, fallen by the sword::[ . . . ]
Eze 32:30-31
(30) There be the princes of the north, all of them, and all the Zidonians, which are gone down with the slain; with their terror they are ashamed of their might; and they lie uncircumcised with them that be slain by the sword, and bear their shame with them that go down to the pit.
(31) Pharaoh shall see them, and shall be comforted over all his multitude, even Pharaoh and all his army slain by the sword, saith the Lord GOD.​

Jesus speaking, in the NT a dead man in Hades had eyes, was in torment, saw Abraham, “cried and said,” asked for water, begged Abraham, etc.

Luk 16:22-28
(22) And it came to pass, that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels into Abraham's bosom: the rich man also died, and was buried;
(23) And in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom.
(24) And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame.
(25) But Abraham said, Son, remember that thou in thy lifetime receivedst thy good things, and likewise Lazarus evil things: but now he is comforted, and thou art tormented.
(26) And beside all this, between us and you there is a great gulf fixed: so that they which would pass from hence to you cannot; neither can they pass to us, that would come from thence.
(27) Then he said, I pray thee therefore, father, that thou wouldest send him to my father's house:
(28) For I have five brethren; that he may testify unto them, lest they also come into this place of torment.​

<WO>The resurrection shall see all people raised up and God has promised that all people shall declare that in Him alone they have righteousness and strength. That is the declaration of someone who BELIEVES in Jesus our righteousness...not the declaration of someone being forced to say it under threat of torture.
Isa 45:23 I have sworn by myself, the word is gone out of my mouth in righteousness, and shall not return, That unto me every knee shall bow, every tongue shall swear.
Isa 45:24 Surely, shall one say, in the LORD have I righteousness and strength: even to him shall men come; and all that are incensed against him shall be ashamed.
Flee the false god of eternal torment!!<end>

Isa 45:23-25
(23) I have sworn by myself, the word is gone out of my mouth in righteousness, and shall not return, That unto me every knee shall bow, every tongue shall swear.
(24) Surely, shall one say, in the LORD have I righteousness and strength: even to him shall men come; and all that are incensed against him shall be ashamed.
(25) In the LORD shall all the seed of Israel be justified, and shall glory.​

Notice your proof text does not say “to him shall all men come.” It says “even to him shall men come.” Then it continues “all that are incensed against him shall be ashamed.” It does not say “they shall be ashamed then they come to him.”
This verse is similar to Dan 12:2

Dan 12:2 Multitudes who sleep in the dust of the earth will awake: some to everlasting life, others to shame and everlasting contempt.​

Dan 12:2 does not say “other shall awake to shame and everlasting shame then they will have everlasting life.
Does “every knee shall bow every tongue confess” mean all unrepentant sinners after they have been punished for some period will suddenly be filled with warm fuzzies for Gods and willingly get on their knees and call God, Lord? What about God’s enemies who are made a footstool for Jesus?

Isa 110:1
Of David. A psalm. The LORD says to my lord: "Sit at my right hand until I make your enemies a footstool for your feet."Mat 22:44, Mar 12:36, Luk 20:43, Act 2:35

Jos 10:24 And it came to pass, when they brought out those kings unto Joshua, that Joshua called for all the men of Israel, and said unto the captains of the men of war which went with him, Come near, put your feet upon the necks of these kings. And they came near, and put their feet upon the necks of them.​

When enemy kings were captured they were forced to their knees and the conquerors would place their feet on the back of their necks.

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Hi brother,
I think we all have been propagandised. All of us, including me. Sorry if you are offended.


I don't believe that people are annihilated. I believe they sleep in the grave/Sheol. You quoted Dan 12 for that yourself. Jesus said Lazarus sleeps, but he meant Lazarus is dead...I go that I might wake him up.

That parable of Lazarus and the rich man you quoted.....if you take it literally then all people in the western world are Hell bound for we have all been living in luxury compared to the Lazarus' of the third world countries. The guy was called son by Father Abraham, but he still found himself in hell if you take it all literally. As well as that where do you get water in Hell to cool the tongue?

I think that those who preach endless torment are themselves living in torment running on the treadmill of religious works trying to get the Hell god off their case. I think that when those preachers of endless torment go out to do missions they make the converts twice as much a son of Gehenna as themselves.
The Lord said that to me one time....and I have been coming out of that way as He shows me the reality of union in Him and His unfathomable love for all people.
God bless you and thanks for your well reasoned reply.
Dennis

ClementofA said:

Nothing there or anywhere else in Scripture says Jesus died - ONLY - for the sheep or the elect or some human beings. OTOH many verses reveal His death is for the world, all humans, the ungodly, sinners, etc.

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Jesus told the pharisees the reason they didn't believe was because he did not die for them.

Dave L said:

Jesus told the pharisees the reason they didn't believe was because he did not die for them.

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Tell that to Paul.

Pneuma3 said:

Tell that to Paul.

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Read Paul in Romans 9 how God appoints many to wrath and some to receive his mercy........

Dave L said:

Jesus told the pharisees the reason they didn't believe was because he did not die for them.

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Pneuma3 said:

Tell that to Paul.

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Dave L said:

Read Paul in Romans 9 how God appoints many to wrath and some to receive his mercy........

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Was Paul a pharisee? Yes or no? So as you say Jesus told the Pharisees he did not die for them please explain how Paul was then saved, he being one who you say Jesus did not die for.

And you have no understanding of romans 9 if you believe it is talking about not saving all.

Pneuma3 said:

Was Paul a pharisee? Yes or no? So as you say Jesus told the Pharisees he did not die for them please explain how Paul was then saved, he being one who you say Jesus did not die for.

And you have no understanding of romans 9 if you believe it is talking about not saving all.

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The pharisees in Jesus' audience in John 10 were damned.

Dave L said:

Jesus told the pharisees the reason they didn't believe was because he did not die for them.

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Dear Dave: While you are telling that fantasy to St. Paul perhaps you can drop over to see St. John & let him know Jesus Christ is not propitiation for the whole world!

He is[the] propitiation for our sins, and not for our sins ONLY, but for the sins of the whole world.

Your word for today, Dave, is O N L Y.

Dear Dave: your list is growing. You do not grasp krino & holos can be added to it!

Jesus Christ IS the hilasmos of the holos!

FineLinen said:

Dear Dave: While you are telling that fantasy to St. Paul perhaps you can drop over to see St. John & let him know Jesus Christ is not propitiation for the whole world!

He is[the] propitiation for our sins, and not for our sins ONLY, but for the sins of the whole world.

Your word for today, Dave, is O N L Y.

Dear Dave: your list is growing. You do not grasp krino & holos can be added to it!

Jesus Christ IS the hilasmos of the holos!

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Whole world = gentiles too, not just Jews.

Dave L said:

The pharisees in Jesus' audience in John 10 were damned.

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Dear Dave: You do know that "damnation" begins at the House of God! Yes Dave, krino, begins at the Lords House!!!

Dave L said:

Whole world = gentiles too, not just Jews.

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Dear Dave: The whole world is the whole world: Jews, Gentiles, radical Calvin, heathen, broken lost sinners, Republicans, Democrats, non voters, independents>>>>>the hilasmos of the holos!

FineLinen said:

Dear Dave: The whole world is the whole world: Jews, Gentiles, radical Calvin, heathen, broken lost sinners, Republicans, Democrats, non voters, independents>>>>>the hilasmos of the holos!

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= Jews & gentiles.

FineLinen said:

Dear Dave: You do know that "damnation" begins at the House of God! Yes Dave, krino, begins at the Lords House!!!

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You are limiting a word having a broad area of meaning to one single meaning. In an attempt to prove your point. Context determines the correct application.

Dave L said:

You are limiting a word having a broad area of meaning to one single meaning. In an attempt to prove your point. Context determines the correct application.

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Dear Dave: Krino is the word for your favorite dogma of damnation. And how many verses of Canon have you presented for your favorite dogma?

I believe our Father must bring krino to all mankind. It is not exclusively for broken lost sinners, but broken lost members of radical Calvin & His entire House of the malista!

FineLinen said:

Dear Dave: Krino is the word for your favorite dogma of damnation. And how many verses of Canon have you presented for your favorite dogma?

I believe our Father must bring krino to all mankind. It is not exclusively for broken lost sinners, but broken lost members of radical Calvin & His entire House of the malista!

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Context does not allow for your narrow definition.

Dave L said:

Context does not allow for your narrow definition.

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Dear Dave: This should be so simple for you. Tell us what the koine krino means in your broad expanse of definition. After you have established what krino means in a non- narrow definition, please demonstrate the difference of the KJV translation of krino into your favorite dogma of "damnation" and why krino is in another dimension for the House of God.

FineLinen said:

Dear Dave: This should be so simple for you. Tell us what the koine krino means in your broad expanse of definition. After you have established what krino means in a non- narrow definition, please demonstrate the difference of the KJV translation of krino into your favorite dogma of "damnation" and why krino is in another dimension for the House of God.

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κρίνω (krinō). vb. to pass judgment, to make a judgment. This verb describes the act of carrying out a judicial process or making a judgment.
This is the most widely used term in the NT to describe the act of judgment. Additional terms such as the nouns κρίμα (krima) and κρίσις (krisis) are derived from this verbal stem and essentially overlap in meaning. The compound forms ἀνακρίνω (anakrinō) and κατακρίνω (katakrinō) are used frequently throughout the NT with the same basic meaning. The verb krinō is often used with a forensic sense to mean condemnation or punishment. The authors of the NT emphasize that the Father appointed Jesus as his judicial agent to carry out the final judgment on the day of the Lord (John 5:22–30). God’s eschatological judgment also has ethical implications for the present time. The NT therefore exhorts believers to live in reverence of God, knowing that he is the impartial judge who will exonerate them and bring condemnation upon those who defy him (1 Pet 1:17; 2 Pet 2:3–16).


Aernie, M. (2014). Judgment, Final. D. Mangum, D. R. Brown, R. Klippenstein, & R. Hurst (Eds.),