Did Jesus give his apostles the authority to forgive sins?

HTacianas

Well-Known Member
Jul 9, 2018
8,505
9,010
Florida
✟324,976.00
Country
United States
Faith
Eastern Orthodox
Marital Status
Single
It's kind of a yes or no question but feel free to elaborate. This keeps coming up.

copyChkboxOff.gif
Jhn 20:21 - So Jesus said to them again, “Peace to you! As the Father has sent Me, I also send you.”

copyChkboxOn.gif
Jhn 20:23 - “If you forgive the sins of any, they are forgiven them; if you retain the sins of any, they are retained.”
 

Monk Brendan

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Jul 21, 2016
4,636
2,875
72
Phoenix, Arizona
Visit site
✟294,430.00
Country
United States
Faith
Melkite Catholic
Marital Status
Private
Politics
US-Others
It's kind of a yes or no question but feel free to elaborate. This keeps coming up.

copyChkboxOff.gif
Jhn 20:21 - So Jesus said to them again, “Peace to you! As the Father has sent Me, I also send you.”

copyChkboxOn.gif
Jhn 20:23 - “If you forgive the sins of any, they are forgiven them; if you retain the sins of any, they are retained.”
You've just answered your own question.
 
Upvote 0

Ignatius the Kiwi

Dissident
Mar 2, 2013
7,075
3,768
✟290,757.00
Country
New Zealand
Faith
Eastern Orthodox
Marital Status
Single
It would be hard to argue based on the verses you posted that Jesus didn't give them some authority. One could be technical and say it's not the Apostles themselves but God through them forgiving the sins, yet the decision on who receives absolution rests in the hands of the Apostles even if God is the one doing it.
 
Upvote 0

eleos1954

God is Love
Site Supporter
Nov 14, 2017
9,803
5,656
Utah
✟721,398.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
Politics
US-Others
It's kind of a yes or no question but feel free to elaborate. This keeps coming up.

copyChkboxOff.gif
Jhn 20:21 - So Jesus said to them again, “Peace to you! As the Father has sent Me, I also send you.”

copyChkboxOn.gif
Jhn 20:23 - “If you forgive the sins of any, they are forgiven them; if you retain the sins of any, they are retained.”

We (and the apostles) can/did and should forgive one another if someone does something (sins) against us. That is forgive them for whatever sin they committed against you. If one does not do this ... then one carries around whatever sin was committed on them as well and will have bad feelings towards that person ... or if that person is truly sorry ... and if you don't forgive them ... then they will likely carry around the guilt about that. That's what it means about being retained.

If the sin is not forgiven ... it is retained in one and/or both the persons.

No one except Jesus can forgive sins unto salvation.

Luke 23
34 Jesus said, "Father, forgive them, for they do not know what they are doing."

John 14
6 Jesus answered, "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.

God Bless.
 
Upvote 0

TuxAme

Quis ut Deus?
Site Supporter
Dec 16, 2017
2,422
3,264
Ohio
✟191,697.00
Country
United States
Faith
Catholic
Marital Status
Celibate
We (and the apostles) can/did and should forgive one another if someone does something (sins) against us. That is forgive them for whatever sin they committed against you. If one does not do this ... then one carries around whatever sin was committed on them as well and will have bad feelings towards that person ... or if that person is truly sorry ... and if you don't forgive them ... then they will likely carry around the guilt about that. That's what it means about being retained.

If the sin is not forgiven ... it is retained in one and/or both the persons.

No one except Jesus can forgive sins unto salvation.

Luke 23
34 Jesus said, "Father, forgive them, for they do not know what they are doing."

John 14
6 Jesus answered, "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.

God Bless.
This understanding doesn't "jive" with the context of this command. Not only did Jesus tell them to forgive (or retain) sins, but He breathed on them and told them to receive the Holy Spirit prior to doing so. For what purpose? We also need to consider why He only told them this after His resurrection and not during His earthly ministry. He charged them to forgive or retain sins only after His death and resurrection, through which we obtain forgiveness. If He had told them this before His death and resurrection, then we might be able to understand this verse so simply and earthly, but as it happens, He only told them to do this after the event through which we can be reconciled to God, connecting this to His saving Passion.
 
Upvote 0

Greg J.

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Mar 2, 2016
3,841
1,907
Southeast Michigan
✟233,164.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
Anyone have a verse that shows Jesus Himself forgave someone their sins instead of announced that someone's sins were forgiven? That is, a verse that indicates Jesus and not the Father forgave their sins? I can't think of any.
 
Upvote 0

eleos1954

God is Love
Site Supporter
Nov 14, 2017
9,803
5,656
Utah
✟721,398.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
Politics
US-Others
This understanding doesn't "jive" with the context of this command. Not only did Jesus tell them to forgive (or retain) sins, but He breathed on them and told them to receive the Holy Spirit prior to doing so. For what purpose? We also need to consider why He only told them this after His resurrection and not during His earthly ministry. He charged them to forgive or retain sins only after His death and resurrection, through which we obtain forgiveness. If He had told them this before His death and resurrection, then we might be able to understand this verse so simply and earthly, but as it happens, He only told them to do this after the event through which we can be reconciled to God, connecting this to His saving Passion.

"for what purpose"

The Holy Spirit Comes at Pentecost

2 When the day of Pentecost came, they were all together in one place. 2 Suddenly a sound like the blowing of a violent wind came from heaven and filled the whole house where they were sitting. 3 They saw what seemed to be tongues of fire that separated and came to rest on each of them. 4 All of them were filled with the Holy Spirit and began to speak in other tongues as the Spirit enabled them.

They received the gift of tongues from the Holy Spirit (ability to communicate in many languages)

Jesus Appears to the Disciples

John 7:39

He was speaking about the Spirit, whom those who believed in Him were later to receive. For the Spirit had not yet been given, because Jesus had not yet been glorified.

The apostles taught forgiveness throughout their ministry.

Luke 17:3

"Be on your guard! If your brother sins, rebuke him; and if he repents, forgive him.

Matthew 18:35

"My heavenly Father will also do the same to you, if each of you does not forgive his brother from your heart."

Matthew 6:14

"For if you forgive others for their transgressions, your heavenly Father will also forgive you.

Mark 11:25

"Whenever you stand praying, forgive, if you have anything against anyone, so that your Father who is in heaven will also forgive you your transgressions.

Luke 6:37

"Do not judge, and you will not be judged; and do not condemn, and you will not be condemned; pardon, and you will be pardoned.

Ephesians 4:32

Be kind to one another, tender-hearted, forgiving each other, just as God in Christ also has forgiven you.

Colossians 3:13

bearing with one another, and forgiving each other, whoever has a complaint against anyone; just as the Lord forgave you, so also should you.

2 Corinthians 2:7

so that on the contrary you should rather forgive and comfort him, otherwise such a one might be overwhelmed by excessive sorrow.

Luke 17:4

"And if he sins against you seven times a day, and returns to you seven times, saying, 'I repent,' forgive him."

Genesis 50:17

'Thus you shall say to Joseph, "Please forgive, I beg you, the transgression of your brothers and their sin, for they did you wrong."' And now, please forgive the transgression of the servants of the God of your father." And Joseph wept when they spoke to him.

1 Samuel 25:28

"Please forgive the transgression of your maidservant; for the LORD will certainly make for my lord an enduring house, because my lord is fighting the battles of the LORD, and evil will not be found in you all your days.

Exodus 10:17

"Now therefore, please forgive my sin only this once, and make supplication to the LORD your God, that He would only remove this death from me."

1 Samuel 15:25

"Now therefore, please pardon my sin and return with me, that I may worship the LORD."

2 Corinthians 12:13

For in what respect were you treated as inferior to the rest of the churches, except that I myself did not become a burden to you? Forgive me this wrong!

"He charged them to forgive or retain sins only after His death and resurrection, through which we obtain forgiveness."

All the apostles received the Holy Spirit. If all the apostles have the power to save unto salvation. ..does that mean all apostles also have the power of unto condemnation?
 
Upvote 0

Tree of Life

Hide The Pain
Feb 15, 2013
8,824
6,251
✟48,157.00
Country
United States
Faith
Reformed
Marital Status
Married
It's kind of a yes or no question but feel free to elaborate. This keeps coming up.

copyChkboxOff.gif
Jhn 20:21 - So Jesus said to them again, “Peace to you! As the Father has sent Me, I also send you.”

copyChkboxOn.gif
Jhn 20:23 - “If you forgive the sins of any, they are forgiven them; if you retain the sins of any, they are retained.”

No not authority independent of him. The apostles, for example, did not have the authority to forgive unrepentant people. If they did, why not simply forgive the whole world?
 
  • Like
Reactions: St_Worm2
Upvote 0

St_Worm2

Simul Justus et Peccator
Site Supporter
Jan 28, 2002
27,472
45,435
67
✟2,928,857.00
Country
United States
Faith
Calvinist
Marital Status
Married
Anyone have a verse that shows Jesus Himself forgave someone their sins instead of announced that someone's sins were forgiven? That is, a verse that indicates Jesus and not the Father forgave their sins? I can't think of any.
Here's a passage that comes to mind.

Mark 2
1 When He had come back to Capernaum several days afterward, it was heard that He was at home.
2 And many were gathered together, so that there was no longer room, not even near the door; and He was speaking the word to them.
3 And they came, bringing to Him a paralytic, carried by four men.
4 Being unable to get to Him because of the crowd, they removed the roof above Him; and when they had dug an opening, they let down the pallet on which the paralytic was lying.
5 And Jesus seeing their faith said to the paralytic, “Son, your sins are forgiven.”
6 But some of the scribes were sitting there and reasoning in their hearts,
7 “Why does this man speak that way? He is blaspheming; who can forgive sins but God alone?
8 Immediately Jesus, aware in His spirit that they were reasoning that way within themselves, said to them, “Why are you reasoning about these things in your hearts?
9 “Which is easier, to say to the paralytic, ‘Your sins are forgiven’; or to say, ‘Get up, and pick up your pallet and walk’?
10 “But so that you may know that the Son of Man has authority on earth to forgive sins”—He said to the paralytic,
11 “I say to you, get up, pick up your pallet and go home.”
12 And he got up and immediately picked up the pallet and went out in the sight of everyone, so that they were all amazed and were glorifying God, saying, “We have never seen anything like this.”

Why wouldn't Jesus have the authority to forgive sins? After all, He's the One, the only Authority from Whom such authority could be delegated.

--David
 
Last edited:
  • Informative
Reactions: Hazelelponi
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

St_Worm2

Simul Justus et Peccator
Site Supporter
Jan 28, 2002
27,472
45,435
67
✟2,928,857.00
Country
United States
Faith
Calvinist
Marital Status
Married
One could be technical and say it's not the Apostles themselves but God through them forgiving the sins, yet the decision on who receives absolution rests in the hands of the Apostles even if God is the one doing it.
Hi Ignatius of Kiwi, are implying that God chooses to have no say in the matter of our forgiveness, that the Holy Spirit (who was given to the disciples and came to indwell them permanently at Pentecost) is not instructing them as to who has and who has not ~already~ been forgiven by Him (as the perfect tense seems to indicate in John 20:23), and that God, instead of acting as our Sovereign, chooses instead to submit to and obey the whimsical notions/fancies of mere men (who cannot know the hearts/the true motivations of men, unless God chooses to reveal them to us)?

Thanks!

--David
p.s. - from the harmony of John in Luke, we can clearly see that Jesus was talking to the 10 (IOW, the 12 less St. Thomas and, of course, Judas ), as well some of His 'other' disciples (which may have included women?). Another question I have is where does the Bible tell us that He was speaking to the 10 (His "Apostles") alone, and not giving those same instructions to the other disciples who were also in the room with Him at that time? Thanks again!!
.
 
Last edited:
  • Useful
Reactions: Hazelelponi
Upvote 0

Greg J.

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Mar 2, 2016
3,841
1,907
Southeast Michigan
✟233,164.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
Here's a passage that comes to mind.

Mark 2
1 When He had come back to Capernaum several days afterward, it was heard that He was at home.
2 And many were gathered together, so that there was no longer room, not even near the door; and He was speaking the word to them.
3 And they came, bringing to Him a paralytic, carried by four men.
4 Being unable to get to Him because of the crowd, they removed the roof above Him; and when they had dug an opening, they let down the pallet on which the paralytic was lying.
5 And Jesus seeing their faith said to the paralytic, “Son, your sins are forgiven.”
6 But some of the scribes were sitting there and reasoning in their hearts,
7 “Why does this man speak that way? He is blaspheming; who can forgive sins but God alone?
8 Immediately Jesus, aware in His spirit that they were reasoning that way within themselves, said to them, “Why are you reasoning about these things in your hearts?
9 “Which is easier, to say to the paralytic, ‘Your sins are forgiven’; or to say, ‘Get up, and pick up your pallet and walk’?
10 “But so that you may know that the Son of Man has authority on earth to forgive sins”—He said to the paralytic,
11 “I say to you, get up, pick up your pallet and go home.”
12 And he got up and immediately picked up the pallet and went out in the sight of everyone, so that they were all amazed and were glorifying God, saying, “We have never seen anything like this.”

Why wouldn't Jesus have the authority to forgive sins? After all, He's the One, the only Authority from Whom such authority could be delegated.

--David
I wasn't wondering about his authority, but how clear it was that He knew to forgive sins by the Holy Spirit.

So Jesus said, “When you have lifted up the Son of Man, then you will know that I am the one I claim to be and that I do nothing on my own but speak just what the Father has taught me. (John 8:28, 1984 NIV)

I believe he did everything according to the will of the Father, through the Holy Spirit, but that's not enough to convince others that what Jesus was talking about was forgiving people by the Spirit, which is actually not something initiated by human will, but a response by a human to God's Spirit. I hope it is obvious that no one can forgive sins contrary to the will of God, as would happen if a person acted on his own will to forgive someone's sins. Forgiveness of sin is something that happens in God's heart.
 
Upvote 0

PeaceByJesus

Unworthy servant for the Worthy Lord + Savior
Feb 20, 2013
2,775
2,095
USA
Visit site
✟83,561.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
Politics
US-Others
It would be hard to argue based on the verses you posted that Jesus didn't give them some authority. One could be technical and say it's not the Apostles themselves but God through them forgiving the sins, yet the decision on who receives absolution rests in the hands of the Apostles even if God is the one doing it.
From what i have seen and perceive from Scripture, it is true that the apostles, and by extension church leadership, and by extension, the corporate body has conditional power to forgive wrongs done to them, under the principal that the one offended has a claim against the offender, and which God regards. And in which forgiveness equates to deliverance, healing, liberty in release from the charges and chastisement.

Leadership, together with the church, can bind one in church discipline such as offended the church, or a member - if they are impenitent, as in the case of Mt. 18:14,15 and 1 Co. 5:5. And also can loose one from this judgment upon repentance, effectively dropping the charges against them. And thus Paul said he would forgave the penitent sinner of 1 Co. 5 in the name of Christ, as in His stead, and anyone else they had charges against, along with them:

To whom ye forgive any thing, I forgive also: for if I forgave any thing, to whom I forgave it, for your sakes forgave I it in the person of Christ; (2 Corinthians 2:10)

However, this power is not autocratic, but such judgment presumes (as in promises for prayer) it is right and done in name (consistent with His character and will as representatives of Him). Thus if the one offended unjustly charged one as guilty, God would not (as in the case of the OT magisterial powers condemning Christ, yet those who chose to no hold any charges against those who crucified them in their spiritual blindness).

Likewise if the one offended was penitent and those who were offended refused to drop the charges they held against him, then they would actually incur judgement. Yet if one claims forgiveness based upon such texts as 1 John 1:9 for a actual sin that damaged others and did not confess it and seek to make amends, and the offended party brought charges before God in seeking judgment, then I do not think God would forgive, but would chastise the person if they refused to deal with it, perhaps after space was given for them to effectually repent.

Note also that leadership can also have power to bind or release subjects from vows made to God. All of which pertains to the power to bind and to loosing, which pertains to judicial judgments as well as spiritual exercises of it. And judicially formally speaking, the OT supreme court, could and civil courts can also bind a person in guilt or set such free.

Below is something i wrote before on this subject as I seek to see it more clearly, in response to Catholics who cite the promise of forgiveness in James 5:15, as well as that of binding and loosing in Matthew 18:18; John 20:23.

Regarding which, the promise of forgiveness in James 5:15 is in response to the intercession of holy men, that of clergy (presbuteros, not Catholic priests ) these being the class more likely to be holy, and having disciplinary authority in union with the church, (1 Corinthians 5:4,5; 2 Corinthians 2:9–11) but without any example here of, or exhortation to regular confession of sins in general particularly to clergy being strongly recommended, which is what the CCC 1458 does.

And which forgiveness in James 5:15 was most likely was for sins of ignorance which the subject is being chastised for (cf. Lv. 4:1-11; Luke 12:47, 48) Which corresponds to what we see in Mark 2:1-12, in which a man sick of the palsy is forgiven by Christ, without any confession on his part, and which equated to being healed, as a result of the intercession of his friends who brought him to Christ.

Thus we see here and in James 5:14,15 that God can show mercy and grace in response to the intercession of holy pastors. Yet as expanded upon below, the only command or exhortation to confess sins is to each other as a practice is in what follows, that of James 5:16–20 in which holy faith-filled believers may obtain healing thru prayer, and “hide a multitude of sins,”and with the provision for binding and loosing being afforded to all of holy faith and fervent prayer as Elijah.

And which relates to the binding and loosing provision of Matthew 18:18; John 20:23, in which the provision for binding and loosing is given to the church, beginning with the pastors. Which has two aspects, one of which pertains to judicial judgments such as in disciplining members in union with the church. (Matthew 18:15-18; 1 Corinthians 5:4,5) In which God binds or looses what the church under magisterial leadership does if in His name - consistent with His will and character, as with the promise of prayer in His name: John 14:14 - led by the pastors, and they in turn are to forgive those whom the church forgives. 2 Corinthians 2:9–11)

This spiritual binding and loosing is also seen in the OT, in which a father or husband could loose his daughter or his wife, respectively, from vows made them. (Numbers 30)

Also, the OT magisterium had the power to bind one in guilt or loose the same, dissent from which was a capital offense. (Deuteronomy 17:8-13) Paul as Saul had authority from the chief priests to bind those who called on the name of Christ, (Acts 9:14) and even civil powers are called ministers of God who can bind or loose, physically in this case. (Romans 13:1-7) However, as with all earthly authority, this does not translate into sovereign autocratic spiritual authority in that God consents to whatever men do or ask, though they invoke His name in so doing.

And the disciplinary binding and loosing of 1 Corinthians 5:4,5, this power also pertains to spiritual power, which is a provision with a scope that is not restricted to the clergy. For while Catholics invoke Matthew 18:15-18 and James 5:14,15 as if only their priests have the power of binding and loosing, yet even though we should tell pastors of our spiritual state, and especially of wilful serious sins, and church discipline is under their leadership - and pastors who themselves sin are to suffer public rebuke - (1 Timothy 5:19,20) yet both confessing sins and the provision of binding and loosing is not restricted to clergy (and certainly not to Catholic priests).

For what follows Matthew 18:15-18 is the promise to all believers in true unity in the name of Christ:

Verily I say unto you, Whatsoever ye shall bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever ye shall loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven. Again I say unto you, That if two of you shall agree on earth as touching any thing that they shall ask, it shall be done for them of my Father which is in heaven. For where two or three are gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them. (Matthew 18:18-20)

And note that the context of Mt. 18:15-18 is that of forgiving personal offenses (though it can in principal extend beyond that) and thus Peter next asks about how many times he is to forgive those who wronged him, meaning to loose one from the claims of judgment against him, and which again, is not restricted to clergy, but who are to forgive those whom you forgive, and whom the church forgives, as in 2 Corinthians 2:9–11.

Likewise, extending beyond the matter of binding or loosing one from the personal claims of judgment, is that which was shown before, that of spiritually binding and loosing as Elijah exampled in binding the sky from raining and loosing them again (which was that of a judgment and a release from the same). Which manner is a provision for all of holy faith and fervent prayer as Elijah (which i come very short of), and James 5:17-20 speaks of this in relation to believers confessing to each others, who also can "hide a multitude of sins" as instruments of conversion. Thanks be to God.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: Hazelelponi
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

StevenMerten

I Love You, God!
Dec 27, 2005
3,068
434
65
Lynnwood, WA
Visit site
✟69,502.00
Country
United States
Faith
Catholic
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Republican
It would be hard to argue based on the verses you posted that Jesus didn't give them some authority. One could be technical and say it's not the Apostles themselves but God through them forgiving the sins, yet the decision on who receives absolution rests in the hands of the Apostles even if God is the one doing it.

Hello Ignatius,
It is interesting to note: In St. Faustina's 'Divine Mercy in My Soul', diary, Jesus Himself is guiding St. Faustina on how to make a good confession to His 'Representatives', who are Catholic Priests. I found that very enlightening. Jesus did not hear St. Faustina's confession, and thus forgive her of her sins, while His Prescence was talking to her through locution. It is only when St. Faustina goes before her confessor, a Catholic priest, that Jesus then forgives her of her sins, through His Representative, the Priest.
www.DivineMercy.com

Jesus actually chooses to forgive us of our sins, through the guidance, and His Authority in His Church, rather than forgive us of our sins directly.
 
Upvote 0

Rubiks

proud libtard
Aug 14, 2012
4,293
2,259
United States
✟137,866.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
The grammar of John 20:23 suggests that human forgiveness brings out divine forgiveness. Otherwise, "if you forgive, they are forgiven them" becomes tautological.

The "they" in "they are retained" should refer to sinners because of the parallel in the first part. Overall it should read "If you forgive, they [sinners] are forgiven them [sin] [by God]. If you retain, they [sinners] are retained [by God]."
 
Upvote 0