Jerusalem - mystery Babylon because of Revelation 11:8?

LittleLambofJesus · Oct 26, 2018

BABerean2 said:
Hosea was written between 722- 710 BC, which was long before the captivity in Babylon.

.

I can view General Titus as a type of KoB in 70ad........

Captivity and sword Luke 21:24 Revelation 13:10

Jeremiah 20:4
“For thus says the LORD: ‘Behold, I will make you a terror to yourself and to all your friends; and they shall fall by the sword of their enemies, and your eyes shall see it.
I will give all Judah into the hand of the king of Babylon, and he shall carry them captive to Babylon and slay them with the sword.

Luke 21:24
And they shall be falling to mouth of sword and they shall be being led captive into all the nations.
And Jerusalem shall be being trodden by nations until which may be being filled times of nations.
[Deuteronomy 28:68/Reve 11:2/13:10]

Revelation 13:10
If any to-captivity into captivity is going away.
If any in sword to be killed, is binding him in sword to be killed.
Here is the endurance and the faith of the saints

I find this rather astounding. Instead of giving all the glory to himself, Titus actually spoke of God helping him......whether this is true or not, I don't know. [centuries later, God had the heathen nations come against Rome and destroy it] So in Essence, the Christians were free of both the religious Ruler ship in Jerusalem, along with the pagan rulers ship of Rome.

The Destruction of Jerusalem - George Peter Holford, 1805AD
The Destruction of Jerusalem

The day on which Titus encompassed Jerusalem, was the feast of the Passover................

Before their final demolition, however, Titus took, a survey of the City and its fortifications ; and, while contemplating their impregnable strength, could not help ascribing his success to the peculiar interposition of the ALMIGHTY HIMSELF. "Had not God himself (exclaimed he) aided out operations, and driven the Jews from their fortresses, it would have been absolutely impossible to have taken them ; for what could men, and the force of engines, have done against such towers as these ?"

berachah · Oct 26, 2018

Copperhead said:
Without the context saying that John is speaking of spiritual things, one cannot legitimately make that claim.

How about John's own words:
Rev 4:1-2 After this I looked, and, behold, a door was opened in heaven: and the first voice which I heard was as it were of a trumpet talking with me; which said, Come up hither, and I will shew thee things which must be hereafter. And immediately I was in the spirit: and, behold, a throne was set in heaven, and one sat on the throne.

Paul was seeing events from a heavenly perspective. None of the events can be fulfilled from a natural perspective. unless of course you believe for example a man will conquer the world from the back of a white horse or a beast will come out of the sea, for example??

Still, Yeshua is not going to return until physical, literal, both houses of Jacob acknowledge their corporate, national rejection of Him, and turn to Him and petition for His return. The Church, anything spiritual, or the man in the moon has nothing to do with it. And that has not happened yet, so the purposes of the GT period as outlined in throughout scripture have not materialized yet. Therefore, the Preterist model falls flat on its face.

And it is because Yeshua clearly stated that He would not return until Jacob (Israel) acknowledge their offense of rejection and petition for His return to rescue them in their "time of Jacob's trouble" (Jeremiah) that Satan has been working overtime to nullify any Hebrew presence on the earth, so that prophecy cannot be fulfilled.

Total lack of understanding of times. Jacobs troubles (like any other prophetic utterances) refers to various dispensations. For the Jews it is the captivity in Babylon, under Christ it is the deliverance, salvation and giving of the Holy Spirit and to the church it is the restoration that comes after the season of bondage that is ahead. THE HOLY GHOST WILL LIFT OFF THE BODY OF CHRIST DUE TO DISOBEDIENCE AND REBELLION. There will be a spiritual slavery in the years ahead, much as there was a season in Babylon for the Jews and an enslavement for the people before Jesus' ministry was birthed.

This season has nothing to do with the Jews or natural Israel or old covenant matters, NOTHING. But at the end of this church age, when the church is in spiritual bondage, the Jews will get the revelation of Christ and the truth and they will revive the Body of Christ. It is not the gentiles that will convert the Jewish faith to Christ. The faith will be in bondage to the world system when the Jews receive revelation from God, revive the entire Body of Christ (Jews and gentiles as one) and bring about the defeat of the spirit of death.

The Church is indeed a target of Satan, no doubt. That was a given all along and scripture also has a lot to say about most of the the "Church" becoming ineffectual in the latter days because of that. But it still has nothing to do with Yeshua's returning or not returning to the earth. Yeshua stated it quite clearly in Hosea and in Matthew, so there is still a calling and purpose for the literal Hebrew people. One can dismiss it all they want, use red herrings like DNA or some lost tribes nonsense. But all that is doing, is calling Yeshua a liar.

Hosea 5:14 - 6:2 For I will be like a lion to Ephraim,
And like a young lion to the house of Judah. (both houses of Jacob)
I, even I, will tear them and go away;
I will take them away, and no one shall rescue. (the diaspora)
15 I will return again to My place
Till they acknowledge their offense.
Then they will seek My face;
In their affliction they will earnestly seek Me. (time of Jacob's trouble per Jeremiah)
1 Come, and let us return to the Lord; For He has torn, but He will heal us;
He has stricken, but He will bind us up.
2 After two days He will revive us; (2000 years using Psalms 90:4 and 2 Peter 3:8)
On the third day He will raise us up, (the Millennial Kingdom)
That we may live in His sight.

Matthew 23:37-39 O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, the one who kills the prophets and stones those who are sent to her! How often I wanted to gather your children together, as a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, but you were not willing! 38 See! Your house is left to you desolate; 39 for I say to you, you shall see Me no more till you say, ‘Blessed is He who comes in the name of the Lord!

While you get carnal and look to natural events and things of the past, real prophecy will be befalling the Body of Christ as spiritual powers of wickedness bring it into bondage in the spiritual battle of Armageddon.

The only things happening in natural Israel is the copy of the Antichrist. A big deliverance of natural Israel by the Antichrist world leader who comes to redo the work of Christ except as a military leader not a spiritual one. And he will enslave every carnal Christian that is focused on his deception. Enjoy the journey of you can.

Douggg · Oct 26, 2018

berachah said:
Israel is the conduit for the antichrist world govt nothing less.

In Revelation 12:10, Israel, the woman receives the gospel of Salvation in Jesus, and the Kingdom of God - in the middle part of the 7 years.

In Daniel 7:25-27, once the little horn person is judged, the Kingdom of God is given over to the saints - which will include the Jews in Israel at that time.

Currently, the Jews are enemies to the gospel, and their sages view the prophecies in Daniel 2 and 7, the fourth kingdom as pertaining to Christianity, in the negative sense.

I was recently in discussion at a Jewish countermissionary site a few days ago regarding what they believe, and came away with these four points, which I had them verify as being what they believe...

1. No ten kings (fourth) kingdom in the end times.

2. There is a connection of the ten toes Daniel 2 as being the ten kings of Daniel 7:23-24, but the ten kings did not rule at the same time.

3. No little horn person in the end times.

4. The kingdom in power at the time of messiah is Christendom.

____________________________________________________________________

Everyone here knows that Jews (in general) and Israel do not believe that Jesus is the messiah. But between now and Jesus's Return, they will believe on Jesus and be saved.

As much as the 7 years remaining of Daniel 9 is for Daniel's people and Israel, the bigger picture is for the rest of creation is removing Satan from his place of power over the nations and destruction of his mystical Kingdom referred to as Babylon the Great.

When you focus on condemning the Jews for their unbelief - which God is going to bring them to Jesus - you are missing that the bible is about God's destruction of Satan - who is the cause of all the deaths and suffering to the human race.

Daniel's people were Israel. My people are the human race, which many have sadly chosen evil, versus the other race of Satan and his angels who seek to destroy my people. What it is the human race versus the race of evil angels.

I would say forget about always looking negatively about Israel. And focus on the human race versus the race of evil angels who's desire is to destroy us - us being all humans, not just Christians.

berachah · Oct 26, 2018

Douggg said:
In Revelation 12:10, Israel, the woman receives the gospel of Salvation in Jesus, and the Kingdom of God - in the middle part of the 7 years.

In Daniel 7:25-27, once the little horn person is judged, the Kingdom of God is given over to the saints - which will include the Jews in Israel at that time.

Currently, the Jews are enemies to the gospel, and their sages view the prophecies in Daniel 2 and 7, the fourth kingdom as pertaining to Christianity, in the negative sense.

I was recently in discussion at a Jewish countermissionary site a few days ago regarding what they believe, and came away with these four points, which I had them verify as being what they believe...

1. No ten kings (fourth) kingdom in the end times.

2. There is a connection of the ten toes Daniel 2 as being the ten kings of Daniel 7:23-24, but the ten kings did not rule at the same time.

3. No little horn person in the end times.

4. The kingdom in power at the time of messiah is Christendom.

The final empire of this age is the United Nations. They have already divided the one world govt empire into 10 sectors and it will no doubt follow the pattern of Babylon and Rome which are the same 4th empires, but in different dispensations. One king will rise up and displace 3. Bear in mind we are still in the times of the 3rd Kingdom. (this is the times of the bankers/ Illuminati/1%/Zionists or whatever you want to call them. Its the same times of the Assyrians / the Greeks)

____________________________________________________________________

Everyone here knows that Jews (in general) and Israel do not believe that Jesus is the messiah. But between now and Jesus's Return, they will believe on Jesus and be saved.

As much as the 7 years remaining of Daniel 9 is for Daniel's people and Israel, the bigger picture is for the rest of creation is removing Satan from his place of power over the nations and destruction of his mystical Kingdom referred to as Babylon the Great.

It is not for the Jews in the times ahead. Their equivalent times for these events happened during the the Maccabees era, recorded in the Apocrypha: books that should never have been removed from the Bible. These events and this betrayal is against the Body of Christ.

When you focus on condemning the Jews for their unbelief - which God is going to bring them to Jesus - you are missing that the bible is about God's destruction of Satan - who is the cause of all the deaths and suffering to the human race.

Daniel's people were Israel. My people are the human race, which many have sadly chosen evil, versus the other race of Satan and his angels who seek to destroy my people. What it is the human race versus the race of evil angels.

I would say forget about always looking negatively about Israel. And focus on the human race versus the race of evil angels who's desire is to destroy us - us being all humans, not just Christians.

On the contrary.... the truth of this deception needs to be told, over and over again as many Christians will be deceived by this coming evil. Zionism is a corruption of the Jewish faith and there are millions of Tanakh believing Orthodox Jews that reject Zionism and the state of Israel out of hand, as they know it is an evil deception and deviation of their faith. They are amongst the most persecuted peoples in Israel..

BABerean2 · Oct 26, 2018

Douggg said:
Everyone here knows that Jews (in general) and Israel do not believe that Jesus is the messiah. But between now and Jesus's Return, they will believe on Jesus and be saved.

As much as the 7 years remaining of Daniel 9 is for Daniel's people and Israel, the bigger picture is for the rest of creation is removing Satan from his place of power over the nations and destruction of his mystical Kingdom referred to as Babylon the Great.

When you focus on condemning the Jews for their unbelief - which God is going to bring them to Jesus - you are missing that the bible is about God's destruction of Satan - who is the cause of all the deaths and suffering to the human race.

You are making blanket statements that do not agree with the Bible, when you say Jews (in general) will be saved between now and the return of Christ.

Rom 9:27 Esaias also crieth concerning Israel, Though the number of the children of Israel be as the sand of the sea, a remnant shall be saved:

You are also ignoring Matthew 10:5-7, and Romans 1:16, and Galatians 1:14-18, which reveal a time period of about 7 years when the Gospel was taken "first" to the Jews, before Paul began his ministry to the Gentiles.

Based on Titus 3:9 God is not now a respecter of persons based on their genealogy.

The most important genealogy in the Bible is found in Matthew 1:1.
This fact is confirmed in Galatians 3:16.

Christ is the seed of Abraham through which "all" the families of the earth would be blessed (Genesis 12:3), instead of Abraham's descendants who reject God's Son.
This fact is confirmed in 1 John 2:22-23.

Anyone who promotes the idea that modern Jews will one day come to salvation outside of the Church is promoting a form of Dual Covenant Theology.

.

jgr · Oct 27, 2018

Copperhead said:
And there have been genetic markers and statistical studies established that show the Hebrew genetic lineage is not gone.

Correct, it is not gone. Indeed, it is present in every inhabitant of planet earth.

So what is its spiritual significance?

Abraham lineage
DNA Tests Could Fulfill God’s Promise to Abraham by Revealing Millions of Jews. But How Jewish is Jewish Enough?
Israel in all of Us? Research finds 'Jewish genes' in unusual places
Arabs of Jewish Descent in Israel
Tracing the lost tribes to Jewish communities in Africa
Nigeria's Igbo Jews: 'Lost tribe' of Israel? - CNN
http://www.worldjewishcongress.org/...-africa-has-jewish-roots-genetic-tests-reveal
https://www.jpost.com/Jewish-World/...her-claims-proof-of-tribe-of-Ephraim-in-India
https://www.jta.org/2013/05/23/life...bush-bani-israel-tribe-claims-jewish-heritage

Example of the mathematical confirmation of ancestral genetic ubiquity

Douggg · Oct 27, 2018

BABerean2 said:
Anyone who promotes the idea that modern Jews will one day come to salvation outside of the Church is promoting a form of Dual Covenant Theology.

I promote that the woman in Revelation 12, Israel, the Jews, will embrace the gospel of Salvation and receive the Kingdom of God, in the middle part of the 7 years, in Revelation 12:10.

10 And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night.

Douggg · Oct 27, 2018

berachah said:
The final empire of this age is the United Nations. They have already divided the one world govt empire into 10 sectors and it will no doubt follow the pattern of Babylon and Rome which are the same 4th empires, but in different dispensations. One king will rise up and displace 3. Bear in mind we are still in the times of the 3rd Kingdom. (this is the times of the bankers/ Illuminati/1%/Zionists or whatever you want to call them. Its the same times of the Assyrians / the Greeks)

Irvin Baxter seems to think that United Nations is the world government. I don't hold that opinion.

Third Kingdom was Greece. But if you want to think something else that is fine with me.

The fourth empire - the Roman Empire - in the end times is the EU. The person who becomes the Antichrist is on two tracks. One is becoming the King of Israel - which is what actually makes him the Antichrist. The other track is becoming the King of the Roman empire - which is the role of the little horn and then later the beast.

Being the Antichrist is sandwiched between being the King of the Roman empire.

little horn, 7th Julio Claudian king of the Roman Empire.
then being the Antichrist, King of Israel for a little over three years.
ending when he reveals himself to being the man of sin.
then becoming the beast, 8th Julio Claudian king of the Roman Empire.

berachah · Oct 27, 2018

Douggg said:
Irvin Baxter seems to think that United Nations is the world government. I don't hold that opinion.

Third Kingdom was Greece. But if you want to think something else that is fine with me.

I agree. We are in the times of Ancient Greece but in a different dispensation, that of the Church. If anyone is in doubt check the obvious parallels between the two seasons (medicine / sport / homosexuality/ travel, etc... all the same memes are prevailing and in authority.

The fourth empire - the Roman Empire - in the end times is the EU. The person who becomes the Antichrist is on two tracks. One is becoming the King of Israel - which is what actually makes him the Antichrist. The other track is becoming the King of the Roman empire - which is the role of the little horn and then later the beast.

The EU will be subject to the UN. It is a simply a building block to world unification under the antichrist world power. I suspect there will be other blocks that form in different parts of the world, but ultimately they will come under the UN. 100%. Forget the "Roman Empire" , that ended when it was usurped by Christianity. The UN will however be the same as Rome and Babylon before that. They are one and the same. They will persecute Christianity. Will he be a Jew? There are no more genetic Jews left, that is history. Will he submit tot eh Jewish faith? Perhaps to Zionism which has usurped the Jewish faith from within.

Being the Antichrist is sandwiched between being the King of the Roman empire.

little horn, 7th Julio Claudian king of the Roman Empire.
then being the Antichrist, King of Israel for a little over three years.
ending when he reveals himself to being the man of sin.
then becoming the beast, 8th Julio Claudian king of the Roman Empire.

The only entity that will be deceived is the Body of Christ. I suspect the faith will join with other faiths in a ecumenical interfaith world religion before they understand the Satanic intentions of that which they have been yoked to. It has nothing to do with the natural Jews. Time to get over that deception once and for all.

Douggg · Oct 27, 2018

berachah said:
he EU will be subject to the UN. It is a simply a building block to world unification under the antichrist world power. I suspect there will be other blocks that form in different parts of the world, but ultimately they will come under the UN. 100%. Forget the "Roman Empire" , that ended when it was usurped by Christianity. The UN will however be the same as Rome and Babylon before that. They are one and the same.

In Daniel 11:36, after the person has become the beast, claiming to be God, there are battles involving global powers of the north, south, east, and west to bring all nations into the middle east.

Which would preclude the nations being unified under the banner of the United Nations.

little horn and beast have to do with being the King of the Roman Empire.
Antichrist has to do with being the King of Israel (illegitimate) for a short time.

As the little horn, the person emerges out of the fourth kingdom, the Roman Empire, in the end times. The EU.

treaties of Rome...
60 years of the Rome Treaties - European Union - European Commission
_______________________________________________________________

What to do, berachah, is take another look at the person. Think of him as being in the roles of either being the King of Israel or the King of the Roman Empire. That is the way the prophecies are laid out.

In Revelation 17, the 7 kings and 8th king are Kings of the Roman Empire.

Differently, in Isaiah 14:19-20, God has disdain for the person and casts him out of the grave because he destroys his land and his people - this is because he had been the Antichrist King of Israel. And is likened to an abominable branch. Jesus is the righteous branch. So both are Jews descended from David.

The ten kings in Revelation 17:17 who give their Kingdom to the beast are the same ten kings in Daniel 7:23-24, who are of the fourth kingdom. It's the EU.

23 Thus he said, The fourth beast shall be the fourth kingdom upon earth, which shall be diverse from all kingdoms, and shall devour the whole earth, and shall tread it down, and break it in pieces.

24 And the ten horns out of this kingdom are ten kings that shall arise: and another shall rise after them; and he shall be diverse from the first, and he shall subdue three kings.

The person will not be emerging out of the U.N., but the EU. The EU will be the dominate power globally following Gog/Magog.

berachah · Oct 27, 2018

Douggg said:
In Daniel 11:36, after the person has become the beast, claiming to be God, there are battles involving global powers of the north, south, east, and west to bring all nations into the middle east. [/QUOTE ]

Daniel 11 pertains to the third beast.. Grecia.

Which would preclude the nations being unified under the banner of the United Nations.

little horn and beast have to do with being the King of the Roman Empire.
Antichrist has to do with being the King of Israel (illegitimate) for a short time.

Click to expand...

The antichrist is anti Christ. That is about the Christian's. Whether he is a Zionist or other is irrelevant. This coming, prophesied season is about the destruction of Christianity, nothing else

As the little horn, the person emerges out of the fourth kingdom, the Roman Empire, in the end times. The EU.

treaties of Rome...
60 years of the Rome Treaties - European Union - European Commission
_______________________________________________________________

Click to expand...

The Roman empire is dead and buried. The prophet is referring to a spiritual power, one that previously manifested as Babylon and again as Rome. They are not directly linked, but rather those beasts manifest in the same manner.. specifically persecution of Gods people.. that is under this dispensation, the Spirit filled believer.

What to do, berachah, is take another look at the person. Think of him as being in the roles of either being the King of Israel or the King of the Roman Empire. That is the way the prophecies are laid out.

In Revelation 17, the 7 kings and 8th king are Kings of the Roman Empire.

Differently, in Isaiah 14:19-20, God has disdain for the person and casts him out of the grave because he destroys his land and his people - this is because he had been the Antichrist King of Israel. And is likened to an abominable branch. Jesus is the righteous branch. So both are Jews descended from David.

The ten kings in Revelation 17:17 who give their Kingdom to the beast are the same ten kings in Daniel 7:23-24, who are of the fourth kingdom. It's the EU.

23 Thus he said, The fourth beast shall be the fourth kingdom upon earth, which shall be diverse from all kingdoms, and shall devour the whole earth, and shall tread it down, and break it in pieces.

24 And the ten horns out of this kingdom are ten kings that shall arise: and another shall rise after them; and he shall be diverse from the first, and he shall subdue three kings.

The person will not be emerging out of the U.N., but the EU. The EU will be the dominate power globally following Gog/Magog.

Click to expand...

I agree with scripture but the tie to the EU theory has no substance. The Roman empire is over and exercises no power. As far as I know the UN has already split the world into 10 regions with the EU being one of those regions.
While the 3rd beast reigns (now) the 4th beast has no power, which contradicts your EU theory as it is currently exercising substantial power.

Douggg · Oct 27, 2018

berachah, go back and edit your post. You have some formatting out of place - with "quote" and "/quote" in the brackets, either too many or out of place. It happens to me all the time.

iamlamad · Oct 27, 2018

LittleLambofJesus said:
Or why couldn't it be the Jerusalem of the 1st century?
Luke and Revelation go together like white on rice, and who would dare call him a false apostle?
Most Bible scholars, both futurists and preterists, agree that Luke 21 is talking about 70ad Jerusalem, but they need to also reconcile his Temple discourses to Revelation [and the OT]. IMHO

Luke appears to be the only Gospel writer that uses "avenge/vengeance"?

LUKE CHAPTERS 19, 21, 23 AND REVELATION "DESTRUCTION OF JERUSALEM 70AD"

Isaiah 61:2
[Luke 4:18-19 Luke 21:22]
To proclaim the year of the good pleasure of Yahweh,
And the day of vengeance <5359> of our 'Elohim, To comfort all mourners.

Luke 21:22
For these are the days of avenging/vengeance<1557>, to fulfill<4130> all things having been written<1125>. [Isaiah 61:2]

Luke 18:7
“And shall God not avenge<1557> His own elect who cry out day and night to Him, though He bears long with them? [Revelation 6:10 Revelation 19:2]

Jerusalem in the 1st century? Wake up! Jerusalem in the first century did not deceive the whole world. But when the Beast and False prophet are there, they WILL deceive the whole world - FROM Jerusalem - all save those whose names are written in heaven.

Jerusalem - mystery Babylon because of Revelation 11:8?

Hebrews 2:14.... Pesky Devil, git!

Jesus Christ is Lord of heaven and earth

anytime rapture, non-dispensationalist, futurist

Jesus Christ is Lord of heaven and earth

Newbie

Well-Known Member

anytime rapture, non-dispensationalist, futurist

anytime rapture, non-dispensationalist, futurist

Jesus Christ is Lord of heaven and earth

anytime rapture, non-dispensationalist, futurist

Jesus Christ is Lord of heaven and earth

anytime rapture, non-dispensationalist, futurist

Lamad

Similar threads