US Secretary of State Backs Bid for Ukrainian Autocephaly

Dorothea

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Dorothea

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"The United States reiterates its strong support for religious freedom and the freedom of members of religious groups, including Ukraine’s Orthodox community, to govern their religion according to their beliefs, free of outside interference.

We support Ukrainians’ ability to worship as they choose and hope this will be respected by all. Tolerance, restraint, and understanding are key to ensuring that people with different religious affiliations can live and prosper together in peace. We urge Church and government officials to actively promote these values in connection with the move towards the establishment of an autocephalous Ukrainian Orthodox Church." - Pompeo

Purely political with a heavy dose of ignorance, which is how our foreign policy has worked for ages with regards to countries with different cultures than the West. (yes, I'm venting. This type of stuff angers me. Lord, have mercy).
 
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Platina

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I think there're probably a lot of factors informing the EP's decision, such as his bitterness about Crete, but I think we'd have to be naive to think politics is not playing a part here too.
 
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HTacianas

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"The United States reiterates its strong support for religious freedom and the freedom of members of religious groups, including Ukraine’s Orthodox community, to govern their religion according to their beliefs, free of outside interference.

We support Ukrainians’ ability to worship as they choose and hope this will be respected by all. Tolerance, restraint, and understanding are key to ensuring that people with different religious affiliations can live and prosper together in peace. We urge Church and government officials to actively promote these values in connection with the move towards the establishment of an autocephalous Ukrainian Orthodox Church." - Pompeo

Purely political with a heavy dose of ignorance, which is how our foreign policy has worked for ages with regards to countries with different cultures than the West. (yes, I'm venting. This type of stuff angers me. Lord, have mercy).

Don't feel so bad about it. Political intrigue has plagued every decision the Church has made.

Lord have mercy!
 
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archer75

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I am more sympathetic to this idea than many on here, but it does seem odd to me that the State Dept feels a need to speak up...do they have an opinion on where to put the antidoron, too?
 
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ArmyMatt

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I am more sympathetic to this idea than many on here, but it does seem odd to me that the State Dept feels a need to speak up...do they have an opinion on where to put the antidoron, too?

the problem is the State Department doesn't understand how autocephaly is granted, and it has nothing to do with Ukrainians worshipping as they see fit. the schismatics are free to be schismatics.
 
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Dorothea

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I am more sympathetic to this idea than many on here, but it does seem odd to me that the State Dept feels a need to speak up...do they have an opinion on where to put the antidoron, too?
I don't know, but the last paragraph of this article is frightening:

The KP head also called on the U.S. to protect the Ecumenical Patriarch (EP) against “attacks” from the Russian Orthodox Church for its intrusion into the territory of the Ukrainian Orthodox Church. Clarifying what kind of “attacks” he had in mind, Denisenko stated (before Eucharistic communion was severed by the EP’s actions): “Now it has already begun: If the Patriarch gives a tomos, they will cease commemorations. And then, if the tomos is handed over, then the end of Eucharistic communion will follow. Therefore, the Ecumenical Patriarch should feel protected.”
 
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Erik Nelson

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the problem is the State Department doesn't understand how autocephaly is granted, and it has nothing to do with Ukrainians worshipping as they see fit. the schismatics are free to be schismatics.
are there actually any Ukrainians who would prefer to remain in the Ukrainian orthodox church and or in communion with the Russian orthodox church?
 
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The United States reiterates its strong support for religious freedom and the freedom of members of religious groups, including Ukraine’s Orthodox community, to govern their religion according to their beliefs, free of outside interference.

"Yeah, uh, we think religious people should be able to do things without outside groups interfering. That's why we've made it our job to interfere in this situation and exert our influence in another country."

Makes sense to me
 
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Dorothea

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"Yeah, uh, we think religious people should be able to do things without outside groups interfering. That's why we've made it our job to interfere in this situation and exert our influence in another country."

Makes sense to me
Exactly. :oldthumbsup:
 
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As I said, I think this is odd (but far from the worst thing I have heard), but to be fair:

1) if one position can be political...another one can also be political

2) regarding safety...Russia does kind of have a reputation these days...
 
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Dorothea

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As I said, I think this is odd (but far from the worst thing I have heard), but to be fair:

1) if one position can be political...another one can also be political

2) regarding safety...Russia does kind of have a reputation these days...
Yes, and I think the majority of that "reputation" is American anti-Russian propaganda. Members of the State Department have been meddling in Ukraine for the past at least three years.
 
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archer75

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Yes, and I think the majority of that "reputation" is American anti-Russian propaganda. Members of the State Department have been meddling in Ukraine for the past at least three years.
I do know what you mean, but I mostly follow Russian news, so it's hard to think of it as American propaganda. For me, anyway. Like, why would a Russian channel like Russia Today, officially funded by the Russian government, go to such trouble to broadcast American propaganda that shows that two guys accused of a poisoning in England are obviously lying when they say why they were there, when they say they aren't military intelligence agents...which, a few days later, they were exposed as being. CNN didn't participate in that at all, in effect, the Russian government broadcast it to millions of viewers. And it makes Russia look like it in fact, almost openly, does exactly the kind of thing the Metropolitan is talking about.

I'm not saying HH Patriarch Bartholomew should be afraid of this...just that to me, given what Russian sources show, it doesn't seem totally out of left-field.
 
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I am more sympathetic to this idea than many on here, but it does seem odd to me that the State Dept feels a need to speak up...do they have an opinion on where to put the antidoron, too?
The American ambassadors to Russia would attend ROCOR councils before the reconcilliation with MP. Sometimes the anti-MP bishops would invite them to block any reapproachment.
 
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buzuxi02

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are there actually any Ukrainians who would prefer to remain in the Ukrainian orthodox church and or in communion with the Russian orthodox church?
The overwhelming majority of Ukranians are in the canonical church autonomous to Russia. All this nonsense about the schismatics being more numerous than the canonical Orthodox Church is fake news as they only poll the western most part of Ukraine where there is a hodgepodge of uniates and schismatics. These propagandist dont even count the people in the eastern half as Ukraine citizens. There are 12,000 parishes aligned with MP. Both of the schismatic groups have less than 7,000 combined. Photos of religious public processions on the streets show the canonical Orthodox Church has way more laity than the schismatics.
 
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Dorothea

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I do know what you mean, but I mostly follow Russian news, so it's hard to think of it as American propaganda. For me, anyway. Like, why would a Russian channel like Russia Today, officially funded by the Russian government, go to such trouble to broadcast American propaganda that shows that two guys accused of a poisoning in England are obviously lying when they say why they were there, when they say they aren't military intelligence agents...which, a few days later, they were exposed as being. CNN didn't participate in that at all, in effect, the Russian government broadcast it to millions of viewers. And it makes Russia look like it in fact, almost openly, does exactly the kind of thing the Metropolitan is talking about.

I'm not saying HH Patriarch Bartholomew should be afraid of this...just that to me, given what Russian sources show, it doesn't seem totally out of left-field.
I'm talking about the Mainstream Media. It has been shoving the Russia meddling in our 2016 election since the day after the election (even though it was discovered Clinton and her campaign managers already had this strategy before election day, and the pied piper strategy in promoting Trump to win the Republican primary as early as the summer/fall of 2015) down our throats. No evidence of Russian meddling was found as suspected, as it was just a distraction from the rigging done by Clinton and the DNC in the Dem. primary. That's what I'm talking about. Anything bad that happens in politics and such, it's Russia's doing. And nobody in the Clinton camp ever accused Russians of actually tampering and changing votes, just that they supposedly worked with Julian Assange to expose what the DNC/Podesta emails that showed their deception, which Assange denied that a Russian was his source.

ETA: and I also watch RT.
 
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archer75

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I'm talking about the Mainstream Media. It has been shoving the Russia meddling in our 2016 election since the day after the election (even though it was discovered Clinton and her campaign managers already had this strategy before election day, and the pied piper strategy in promoting Trump to win the Republican primary as early as the summer/fall of 2015) down our throats. No evidence of Russian meddling was found as suspected, as it was just a distraction from the rigging done by Clinton and the DNC in the Dem. primary. That's what I'm talking about. Anything bad that happens in politics and such, it's Russia's doing. And nobody in the Clinton camp ever accused Russians of actually tampering and changing votes, just that they supposedly worked with Julian Assange to expose what the DNC/Podesta emails that showed their deception, which Assange denied that a Russian was his source.

ETA: and I also watch RT.
Yeah, I also wonder about the Russian fear-mongering. If there's all this evidence, can we see it?
 
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"The United States reiterates its strong support for religious freedom and the freedom of members of religious groups, including Ukraine’s Orthodox community, to govern their religion according to their beliefs, free of outside interference.

We support Ukrainians’ ability to worship as they choose and hope this will be respected by all. Tolerance, restraint, and understanding are key to ensuring that people with different religious affiliations can live and prosper together in peace. We urge Church and government officials to actively promote these values in connection with the move towards the establishment of an autocephalous Ukrainian Orthodox Church." - Pompeo

Purely political with a heavy dose of ignorance, which is how our foreign policy has worked for ages with regards to countries with different cultures than the West. (yes, I'm venting. This type of stuff angers me. Lord, have mercy).
Yes, it's a statement, but are they actually expending any soft power on this? Probably not. It's just a statement.
 
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