WHO IS GOD'S TRUE CHURCH ACCORDING TO GOD'S WORD?

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Cis.jd

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Why the straw man here?
No one is arguing that the sabbath must not be recognized. The question is this: does it any more need to be recognized according to the Mosaic Customs? The answer is found in Acts 15, where we learn that the Mosaic customs were no longer binding (Acts 15:5-6,10,19,23-29).

One is certainly welcome to apply certain Mosaic customs to Saturday if he/she wants, but no one is bound to do so. The Mosaic Customs were mere foreshadows of Christ and so we are not to be judged by them (Col 2:16-17); we have liberty concerning Mosaic days and foods (Romans 14); and Jesus himself taught that doing good and meeting basic human needs was acceptable practice for the Saturday sabbath (Mt 12:1-12).

Now, Why are you arguing that the Sunday Worship that the Apostles instituted be abolished?

Why not simply add Sunday to your Worship Calendar the way the apostles did?

What do you have against celebrating the first day of the week in honor of Christ's resurrection the way the apostles did?

Do you have it right while the apostles had it wrong?



Scripture mentions two Sunday gatherings, both at 1 Cor 16:1-2, and in the breaking of bread on Sunday (Acts 20:7). This, combined with the universal practice of Sunday observance of the Lord's Resurrection Day among the earliest Christians, proves what was the apostolic tradition as taught by the apostles personally to their churches (2 Thess 1:15; 1 Cor 11:2).

"Stand firm and hold to the traditions which you were taught, whether by word of mouth or by letter from us."

"I praise you because you remember me in everything and hold firmly to the traditions, just as I delivered them to you"

The traditions were known by the real, historical practice of the first Christians everywhere---which was Sunday observance of the Lord's Resurrection Day. This day, which was always distinct from the Mosaic Sabbath, was the premier day of Christianity, for Christ's Resurrection was the premier day of all history.

Some on this forum have tried to discount apostolic tradition, arguing that the way to know the truth is for everyone to read their bibles for themselves. And these people are quite vocal about it. But their argument falls apart once we realize that no one could read written language until modern times, nor were books able to be mass produced. Jesus used a different method of passing on his teaching. If it wasn't written language, then what other channel of communication was selected?

Jesus Christ and the apostles instituted a system for preserving and passing on His truth that didn't use books or literacy. And Jesus knew what he was doing. So, again, what channel of communication did Jesus use to preserve and pass on his truth to the human race?

One is fully welcome to pay honor to Saturday. However, the early church established a special day of worship of Jesus on His Resurrection Day. The SDAs have broken away from this apostolic custom, 1800+ years after the apostles established it. Denial of Sunday worship is a major departure from historic, apostolic tradition, that scripture commands Christians to "HOLD FAST TO".

I'll go even farther.
Revelation speaks of everyone receiving a mark that signifies unity with the evil Beast.

Everyone knows that a new "mark" arose among Christianity in recent centuries that for the first time in history caused some people to break away from Sunday observance of the Lord's Resurrection. This unique mark could be the one foreseen in Revelation.

Scripture and History demonstrate that while the Christian Church observed Sunday celebration of the Lord's Resurrection from the first century onward, a new practice began "marking" certain people starting in 1860, when a new sect began introducing a practice that did not originate among the early Church up to that time: a mass boycott of the Lord's Resurrection Day.

I'm becoming convinced that the Saturday Worship that this group promotes instead of the Lord's Day is so unique in Christian history as to represent a possible Mark of the Beast. The sect that launched the new movement even has a special prophet: Ellen G. White. And we all know that a false prophet figures large in the book of Revelation.

As is the constant witness of history concerning the early Christians, the standard gathering day of worship is Sunday (the Lord's Resurrection Day).

In the year 100AD, Ignatius, Bishop of Antioch states:

Ingatius, Bishop of Antioch (AD 100)
"Those who were brought up in the ancient order of things have come to the possession of a new hope, no longer observing the Sabbath, but living in the observance of the Lord's Day, on which also our life has sprung up again by Him and by His death - whom some deny, by which mystery we have obtained faith, and therefore endure, that we may be found the disciples of Jesus Christ, our only Master - how shall we be able to live apart from Him, whose disciples the prophets themselves in the Spirit did wait for Him as their Teacher? And therefore He whom they rightly waited for, being come, raised them from the dead (St. Ignatius: Letter to the Magnesians; Ch 9)

This simple statement by a bishop of one of the apostles' churches echoes that which was stated in an even earlier historic document, The Epistle of Barnabas:

Epistle of Barnabas
"Finally He [God] says to them: I cannot bear your new moons and Sabbaths. You see what he means: It is not the present Sabbaths that are acceptable to me, but the one that I have made; on that Sabbath day, which is the beginning of another world. This is why we spend the eighth day in celebration, the day on which Jesus both arose from the dead and, after appearing again, ascended into heaven."

And that statement is followed by many other statements on the subject by the earliest Christians of the apostolic age. Justin Martyr, in about 150 AD says: "On Sunday, we meet to celebrate the Lords supper and read the Gospels and Sacred Scripture, the first day on which God changed darkness, and made the world, and on which Christ rose from the dead."

And this Sunday observance of the Lord's Resurrection Day continued for centuries without interruption. As Eusebius, bishop of Caesarea writes around the year AD 300: "The day of [Christs] light...was the day of his resurrection from the dead, which they say, as being the one and only truly holy day and the Lords day, is better than any number of days as we ordinarily understand them, and better than the days set apart by the Mosaic law for feasts, new moons, and Sabbaths, which the apostle [Paul] teaches are the shadow of days and not days in reality" (Proof of the Gospel 4:16:186).

And so things continued through all the ecumenical councils of the early Church, and even on through the protestant reformation.

But in the 1800s, following a failed prediction of the Lord's final return in 1844, a last-days group of Americans emerged that received a new doctrine: a mass boycott of Sunday observance of the Lord's Day. The foremost proponent of the new Saturday Sabbath-keeping among early Adventists was retired sea captain Joseph Bates. Bates was introduced to the Sabbath doctrine by a tract written by a Millerite preacher named Thomas M. Preble, who in turn had been influenced by Rachel Oakes Preston, a young Seventh Day Baptist. This new message was gradually accepted and formed the topic of the first edition of the church publication The Present Truth (now the Adventist Review), which appeared in July 1849. Among its most prominent figures were James White, Ellen G. White and Joseph Bates. Ellen White came to occupy a particularly central role; her many visions and strong leadership convinced her fellow Adventists that she possessed the gift of prophecy.

Could it be that Ellen White is the False Prophet of the Book of Revelation? And how might that relate to the Beast's mark of Saturday Sabbath observance?

I admire this intelligent post of yours. However there is a good side to LoveGodsWord that I hope you can see. I understand his commitment to his views, and while he is at error, what he does show is actual proof to the Protestants to this board as to what *we have been telling them in regards to Sola Scriptura.

Let the Protestants try solve this man's interpretation with their interpretation, and hopefully they can remember about all the talks they made about how "Scripture alone" is sufficient.
 
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Karola

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I admire this intelligent post of yours. However there is a good side to LoveGodsWord that I hope you can see. I understand his commitment to his views, and while he is at error, what he does show is actual proof to the Protestants to this board as to what *we have been telling them in regards to Sola Scriptura.

Let the Protestants try solve this man's interpretation with their interpretation, and hopefully they can remember about all the talks they made about how "Scripture alone" is sufficient.
I'm a simple person, and not that well educated, but the bible says the Christian is to follow after the Holy Spirit not the written code of the law, so it would seem to me that if all you do is talk about following after the law you are in error according to scripture. I wouldn't call that following sola scripture, just believing what the bible states
 
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LoveGodsWord

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Why the straw man here?
No one is arguing that the sabbath must not be recognized. The question is this: does it any more need to be recognized according to the Mosaic Customs? The answer is found in Acts 15, where we learn that the Mosaic customs were no longer binding (Acts 15:5-6,10,19,23-29).

Hello parousia70, what strawman argument? There is no strawman argument brother. I simply asked you a question. I question is not an argument. Your claim in your own words was
"where do you find scriptural instruction to abandon Sunday Worship?"
The question was asked of you where does it say in God's WORD that God's 4th Commandment is now ABOLISHED and we are now commanded to keep SUNDAY as a HOLY DAY? There is no scripture. So if there is no scripture then your claim of or question saying "Where do you find scriptural instruction to abandon Sunday Worship?" is in itself simply unscriptural to begin with because there is no scripture that says God's 4th Commandment is ABOLISHED and we are now commanded to keep Sunday as a HOLY DAY.

One is certainly welcome to apply certain Mosaic customs to Saturday if he/she wants, but no one is bound to do so. The Mosaic Customs were mere foreshadows of Christ and so we are not to be judged by them (Col 2:16-17); we have liberty concerning Mosaic days and foods (Romans 14); and Jesus himself taught that doing good and meeting basic human needs was acceptable practice for the Saturday sabbath (Mt 12:1-12).

What customs? We are talking about God's 10 Commandments which are God's eternal law that give us the KNOWLEDGE of GOOD and EVIL; SIN and RIGHTEOUSNESS *ROMANS 3:20; ROMANS 7:7; JAMES 2:3-4; 1 JOHN 3:4; PSALMS 119:172. God's eternal law makes nothing perfect but they show us our need of Christ and that we are all sinners in need of a Saviour. If you have no law you have no gospel and no saviour. You mix up the shadow laws from the MOSIAC BOOK of the COVENANT *EXODUS 24:7 with God's eternal law that give us a knowledge of what sin is if broken *ROMANS 3:20 of which God's 4th Commandment is one of the 10 Commandments.

ROMANS 14 is not talking about God's 4th Commandment. It is talking about food, eating and not eating {fasting} connected to days that men esteem over other days. It is not talking about days that God esteems and there is no reference to God's SEVENTH DAY SABBATH of the 4th commandment anywhere in ROMANS 14. I suggest you re-read the chapted brother it is not saying what you are claiming it says and it has no application to God's 4th commandment which is not even mentioned.

Now, Why are you arguing that the Sunday Worship that the Apostles instituted be abolished? Why not simply add Sunday to your Worship Calendar the way the apostles did? What do you have against celebrating the first day of the week in honor of Christ's resurrection the way the apostles did?

How can Sunday Worship be ABOLISHED if it was never commanded in the scriptures? Sunday worship was never commaded to God's people anywhere in God's WORD. Where is the scripture that says God's 4th commandment has been ABOLISHED and we are now commanded to keep SUNDAY as a HOLY DAY? There is no scripture as the RCC freely admits.

Do you have it right while the apostles had it wrong?

The Apostles met everyday of the week where does it say in the scriptures God's 4th commandment has been ABOLISHED and we are now commanded to keep Sunday as a Holy day? If there is no scripture for your claims that we are commanded to keep Sunday as a Holy day then why are you making them?

Scripture mentions two Sunday gatherings, both at 1 Cor 16:1-2, and in the breaking of bread on Sunday (Acts 20:7). This, combined with the universal practice of Sunday observance of the Lord's Resurrection Day among the earliest Christians, proves what was the apostolic tradition as taught by the apostles personally to their churches (2 Thess 1:15; 1 Cor 11:2). "Stand firm and hold to the traditions which you were taught, whether by word of mouth or by letter from us."

The scripture mention that the Apostles met together EVERYDAY of the week not just on the SABBATH according to God's WORD and Sunday

ACTS 2:46-47 Every day they continued to meet together in the temple courts. They broke bread in their homes and ate together with glad and sincere hearts, praising God and enjoying the favor of all the people. And the Lord added to their number daily those who were being saved.

Let's look at the scripture you quoted..

ACTS 20:7 [7], And upon the first day of the week, when the disciples came together to break bread, Paul preached unto them, ready to depart on the next day; and continued his speech until midnight.

NOTE: As shown in ACTS 2:46-47 God's people met EVERYDAY together. They broke bread EVERYDAY together. Breaking of bread in the GREEK can mean having a meal together or communion. In ACTS 20:7 the scripture gives the reason why the disiples had gathered together. It was because PAUL was ready to depart from them the next day. The disciples gathered together for a meal because PAUL was departing the next day. Sorry brother this is not a scripture that commands anyone to keep SUNDAY as a HOLY DAY. The discples gathered together and broke bread everyday of the week as shown in the above scriptures.

.............

You then quote..

2 THESSALONIANS 2:15 [15], Therefore, brethren, stand fast, and hold the traditions which you have been taught, whether BY WORD, OR OUR EPISTLE.

God's WORD is talking about holding the traditions of the WORD of GOD not the traditions of men over the Word of God. JESUS makes this very clear in MATTHEW 15:3-9 and says those who follow the teachings and traditions of men that break the commandments of God are not following God. PETER also says in ACTS 5:29 when it comes to the teachings of men that goes agaisnt the WORD of God [29], We ought to obey God rather than men. This is also repeated by PAUL when he says; let God be true, but every man a liar; as it is written, That you might be justified in your sayings, and might overcome when you are judged *ROMANS 3:4. Brother can you see your application of 2 THESSALONIANS 2:15 is a misapplication of the scripture as shown above? The scripture is talking about the traditions received by the WORD of GOD not the teachings and traditions of men that go against God's WORD.

............

Only sent in love brother and hope these scriptures are helpful. Please feel free to respond to any of the scritures I have provided here.

May God bless you as you seek him through his WORD.
 
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LoveGodsWord

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"I praise you because you remember me in everything and hold firmly to the traditions, just as I delivered them to you" The traditions were known by the real, historical practice of the first christians everywhere---which was Sunday observance of the Lord's Resurrection Day. This day, which was always distinct from the Mosaic Sabbath, was the premier day of Christianity, for Christ's Resurrection was the premier day of all history.

Posted earlier brother you have a misapplication of the scripture in..

2 THESSALONIANS 2:15 [15], Therefore, brethren, stand fast, and hold the traditions which you have been taught, whether BY WORD, OR OUR EPISTLE.

God's WORD is talking about holding the traditions of the WORD of GOD not the traditions of men over the Word of God. JESUS makes this very clear in MATTHEW 15:3-9 and says those who follow the teachings and traditions of men that break the commandments of God are not following God. PETER also says in ACTS 5:29 when it comes to the teachings of men that goes agaisnt the WORD of God [29], We ought to obey God rather than men. This is also repeated by PAUL when he says; let God be true, but every man a liar; as it is written, That you might be justified in your sayings, and might overcome when you are judged *ROMANS 3:4. Brother can you see your application of 2 THESSALONIANS 2:15 is a misapplication of the scripture as shown above? The scripture is talking about the traditions received by the WORD of GOD not the teachings and traditions of men that go against God's WORD.

Some on this forum have tried to discount tradition, arguing that the way to know the truth is for everyone to read their bibles for themselves. And these people are quite vocal about it. But their argument falls apart once we realize that no one could read written language until modern times, nor were books able to be mass produced. Jesus used a different method of passing on his teaching. If it wasn't written language, then what other channel of communication was selected?

There is nothing wrong with traditions brother. Traditions are only bad when they lead others to go against God's WORD of break the commandments of God. JESUS says the following...

MATTHEW 15:3-9
[3], But he answered and said unto them, Why do you also transgress the commandment of God by your tradition?
[4], For God commanded, saying, Honor your father and mother: and, He that curses father or mother, let him die the death.
[5], But you say, Whosoever shall say to his father or his mother, It is a gift devoted to God, whatsoever you might have received from me;
[6], And honors not his father or his mother, he shall be free. Thus have you made the commandment of God void by your tradition.
[7], You hypocrites, well did Isaiah prophesy of you, saying,
[8], These people draw near unto me with their mouth, and honor me with their lips; but their heart is far from me.
[9], But in vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.

PETER says..

ACTS 5:29 [29], Then Peter and the other apostles answered and said, We ought to obey God rather than men.

Echoed by PAUL...

ROMANS 3:4 [4],God forbid: yea, let God be true, but every man a liar; as it is written, That you might be justified in your sayings, and might overcome when you are judged.

One is allowed to pay honor to Saturday. However, the early church established a special day of worship of Jesus on His Resurrection Day. The SDAs have broken away from this apostolic custom, 1800+ years after the apostles established it. Denial of Sunday worship is a major departure from historic, apostolic tradition, that scripture commands Christians to "HOLD FAST TO" I'll go even farther. Revelation speaks of everyone receiving a mark that signifies unity with the evil Beast. Everyone knows that a new "mark" arose among Christianity in recent centuries that for the first time in history caused some people to break away from Sunday observance of the Lord's Resurrection. This unique mark could be the one foreseen in Revelation.

Scripture and History demonstrate that while the Christian Church observed Sunday celebration of the Lord's Resurrection from the first century onward, a new practice began "marking" certain people starting in 1860, when a new sect began introducing a practice that did not originate among the early Church up to that time: a mass boycott of the Lord's Resurrection Day. I'm becoming convinced that the Saturday Worship that this group promotes instead of the Lord's Day is so unique in Christian history as to represent a possible Mark of the Beast. The sect that launched the new movement even has a special prophet: Ellen G. White. And we all know that a false prophet figures large in the book of Revelation. As is the constant witness of history concerning the early Christians, the standard gathering day of worship is Sunday (the Lord's Resurrection Day).

Not at all God's 4th commandment SABBATH made for mankind has it's ORIGIN for mankind from the creation week *GENESIS 2:1-3; EXODUS 20:8-11 and has been kept by God's people since that time unbroken until today. It is the RCC that has lead the world away from the apostolic teachings of God's WORD. There is no command in all of God's WORD that says God's 4th Commandment has been abolsihed and we are now commanded to keep Sunday as a Holy day. This is freely admitted to by the RCC.

In the year 100AD, Ignatius, Bishop of Antioch states: Ingatius, Bishop of Antioch (AD 100)
"Those who were brought up in the ancient order of things have come to the possession of a new hope, no longer observing the Sabbath, but living in the observance of the Lord's Day, on which also our life has sprung up again by Him and by His death - whom some deny, by which mystery we have obtained faith, and therefore endure, that we may be found the disciples of Jesus Christ, our only Master - how shall we be able to live apart from Him, whose disciples the prophets themselves in the Spirit did wait for Him as their Teacher? And therefore He whom they rightly waited for, being come, raised them from the dead (St. Ignatius: Letter to the Magnesians; Ch 9)

This simple statement by a bishop of one of the apostles' churches echoes that which was stated in an even earlier historic document, The Epistle of Barnabas:

Epistle of Barnabas
"Finally He [God] says to them: I cannot bear your new moons and Sabbaths. You see what he means: It is not the present Sabbaths that are acceptable to me, but the one that I have made; on that Sabbath day, which is the beginning of another world. This is why we spend the eighth day in celebration, the day on which Jesus both arose from the dead and, after appearing again, ascended into heaven."

And that statement is followed by many other statements on the subject by the earliest Christians of the apostolic age. Justin Martyr, in about 150 AD says: "On Sunday, we meet to celebrate the Lords supper and read the Gospels and Sacred Scripture, the first day on which God changed darkness, and made the world, and on which Christ rose from the dead."

And this Sunday observance of the Lord's Resurrection Day continued for centuries without interruption. As Eusebius, bishop of Caesarea writes around the year AD 300: "The day of [Christs] light...was the day of his resurrection from the dead, which they say, as being the one and only truly holy day and the Lords day, is better than any number of days as we ordinarily understand them, and better than the days set apart by the Mosaic law for feasts, new moons, and Sabbaths, which the apostle [Paul] teaches are the shadow of days and not days in reality" (Proof of the Gospel 4:16:186).

And so things continued through all the ecumenical councils of the early Church, and even on through the protestant reformation.

Sorry brother these are writings from the RCC that your triyng to substitute over the WORD of GOD these have no weight with me. Do you have scripture that shows that God's 4th commandment has been abolished and we are now commanded to keep Sunday as a HOLY DAY? I do not think so because if you did you would have provided the scriptures.

But in the 1800s, following a failed prediction of the Lord's final return in 1844, a last-days group of Americans emerged that received a new doctrine: a mass boycott of Sunday observance of the Lord's Day. The foremost proponent of the new Saturday Sabbath-keeping among early Adventists was retired sea captain Joseph Bates. Bates was introduced to the Sabbath doctrine by a tract written by a Millerite preacher named Thomas M. Preble, who in turn had been influenced by Rachel Oakes Preston, a young Seventh Day Baptist. This new message was gradually accepted and formed the topic of the first edition of the church publication The Present Truth (now the Adventist Review), which appeared in July 1849. Among its most prominent figures were James White, Ellen G. White and Joseph Bates. Ellen White came to occupy a particularly central role; her many visions and strong leadership convinced her fellow Adventists that she possessed the gift of prophecy.

Not really brother none of what you have posted above have anything to to with the SDA Church which was not founded until 1863.
 
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LoveGodsWord

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Since you have refused to answer my questions I have asked which are.
Do you believe it’s a sin to go to Church on Sunday rather than Saturday?
Do you believe it’s a sin to work on Saturday?
Do you have any scriptures where Jesus or His Apostles command the Church to assemble for a Church service on the Sabbath?

Well that has no truth in it brother. This was answered in this post here click me with scripture your simply repeating yourself.
Do you have any scriptures where Jesus or His Apostles command the Church to do no work on the Sabbath.

Indeed, Paul teaches that no one enters into God's rest without BELIEVING and FOLLOWING God's WORD in HEBREWS 3 and HEBREWS 4 and concludes the matter by saying...

HEBREWS 4:9 So then, it remains for the people of God to keep the Sabbath.

Jesus taught us a lot about how to correctly keep God's 4th commandment Sabbath.

MATTHEW 12:1-12
[1], At that time Jesus went on the sabbath day through the grain field; and his disciples were hungry, and began to pluck the ears of grain, and to eat.
[2], But when the Pharisees saw it, they said unto him, Behold, your disciples do that which is not lawful to do upon the sabbath day.
[3], But he said unto them, Have you not read what David did, when he was hungry, and they that were with him;
[4], How he entered into the house of God, and did eat the showbread, which was not lawful for him to eat, neither for them who were with him, but only for the priests?
[5], Or have you not read in the law, how that on the sabbath days the priests in the temple profane the sabbath, and are blameless?
[6], But I say unto you, That in this place is one greater than the temple.
[7], But if you had known what this means, I will have mercy, and not sacrifice, you would not have condemned the guiltless.
[8], For the Son of man is Lord even of the sabbath day.
[9], And when he was departed from there, he went into their synagogue:
[10], And, behold, there was a man who had his hand withered. And they asked him, saying, Is it lawful to heal on the sabbath days? that they might accuse him.
[11], And he said unto them, What man shall there be among you, that shall have one sheep, and if it fall into a pit on the sabbath day, will he not lay hold on it, and lift it out?
[12], How much then is a man better than a sheep? Therefore it is lawful to do well on the sabbath days.

and again Jesus taugh that he is the creator God and LORD and owner of the SABBATH.

MARK 2:27-28 [27], And he said unto them, The sabbath was made for man, and not man for the sabbath: [28], Therefore the Son of man is Lord also of the sabbath.

Jesus also warned us after his death in the end days...

MATTHEW 24:20 But pray you that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day

Seems a funny thing to say to the disciples don't you think if it was abolished at the cross like you said earlier?

Then we have PAUL and all the Apostles who kept the SABBATH commandment with both JEWS and GENTILE believers *ACTS 13:14-14; 42;44; ACTS 16:13; ACTS 17:1-2; ACTS 18:4-5. JESUS and PAUL and the APOSTLES were all our examples and all obeyed and kept God's 4th Commandment as a HOLY DAY.

..........

As I have carefully gone through all your posts and answered all your questions section by section don't you think it only fair brother if you answer the questions I have asked you? I have asked you many questions you have simply ignored but in return you expect me to answer all of your questions which I have politely done for you. You have also simply chosen to ignore my posts and the scripture in them that disagree with you. Now I do not mind either way, but if you wish to continue the discussion then please answer my questions. If you cannot then we will have to agree to disagree as we are not really having a discussion are we.

Where does it say in God's WORD? (Scripture please)

1. That God's 4th commandments 7th day Sabbath has been abolished?

2. That Jesus is a Sabbath?

3. The Sabbath (seventh day) was ever changed from the seventh to the first day of the week?

4. Where we are told to keep the first day of the week holy?

5. Where the first day of the week (Sunday) is ever called a holy day?

6. That says that Jesus ever kept the first day (Sunday)?

7. That tells us to keep the first day in honour of the resurrection of Christ?

8. Where the first day is ever given any sacred name?

9. That affirms that any of the apostles ever kept the first day as the Sabbath?

10. From any apostolic writings that authorizes Sunday observance as the Sabbath of God?

11. Where we are told not to work on the first day of the week?

12. That says the seventh day is no longer God's Sabbath day?

13. That says the seventh day Sabbath is ABOLISHED?

14. Where the apostles ever taught any convert to keep the first day of the week as a Sabbath?

15. Where the first day was ever appointed to be kept as the Lord's Day?

16. Where the first day of the week is ever called the Lord's Day?

17. That says that the first day of the week was ever sanctified and hallowed as a day of rest?

18. That says that the Father or the Son (Jesus) rested on the first day of the week?

19. That says that Jesus, Paul or any other of the apostles taught anyone to observe the first day of the week as the Sabbath?

20. That calls the seventh day the “Jewish Sabbath” or one text that calls Sunday the “Christian Sabbath”?

21. Telling man to keep the first day of the week holy or to worship or rest on the first day of the week?

22. Authorizing anyone to set aside God's Sabbath and observe any other day?

23. Showing any of the apostles keeping the first day of the week as the Sabbath?

24. Authorizing someone to set aside the fourth Commandment and observe any other day of the week?

25. Where any apostle taught us to keep the first day of the week as the Sabbath?

26. Declaring that the seventh day is no longer the Eternal Sabbath day?

27. Where Sunday is now appointed to be kept as the New Testament Sabbath or holy day?

If you cannot answer any of the above, who should we obey God or man? Something to seriously pray about my dear friends.

...........................

God's 4th commandment is one of the ten (Exodus 20:8-11) If we knowingly break it when God asks us not to we stand guilty before God of committing sin (James 2:8-12). If we do not seek him in repentance and forgiveness we are in danger of the Judgement (Hebrews 10:26-27)

If we brake any of God's commandments it is showing we do not LOVE God or our fellow man...

Thie is why Jesus says....... If you LOVE me keep my COMMANDMENTS (John 14:15;15:10)

In times of ignorance God winks at but now calls all men every where to REPENT for the KINGDOM of HEAVEN is at HAND (Acts 17:30-31)
 
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LoveGodsWord

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They aren't "my" shadow laws, they are your shadow laws. The Bible says that the WHOLE law is a shadow. Not just part.

Hebrews 10:1
The law is only a shadow of the good things that are coming—not the realities themselves. …

No it doesn't Steve, your only part quoting HEBREWS 10:1.

Let's look at the scripture you have provided in detail and why I posted earlier that your mixing up the MOSIAC Book of the shadow laws that point to JESUS and God's plan of salvation in the NEW COVENANT with God's eternal laws that give us the knowledge of sin.

HEBREWS 10:1-19
[1], For the law having a SHADOW of good things to come, and not the very image of the things [WHAT LAW WAS A SHADOW?], can never with those sacrifices which they offered year by year continually make the ones approaching perfect.
[2], For then would they not have ceased to be offered? because the worshipers once purged should have had no more consciousness of sins.
[3], But in those sacrifices there is a remembrance again made of sins every year [Day of Atonement *Leviticus 23:27-32].
[4], For it is not possible that the blood of bulls and of goats should take away sins.
[5], Therefore when he comes into the world, he says, Sacrifice and offering you desired not, but a body have you prepared me:
[6], In burnt offerings and sacrifices for sin you have had no pleasure.
[7], Then said I, Lo, I come in the volume of the book it is written of me, to do your will, O God.

.............

NOTE:
What are these Shadow laws of the OLD COVENANT? IT is those from the MOSAIC BOOK OF THE COVENANT v7 is a reference to...

EXODUS 24:7 [7], And he took the BOOK OF THE COVENANT, and read in the audience of the people: and they said, All that the LORD has said will we do, and be obedient.

DEUTERONOMY 29:21 [21], And the LORD shall separate him to evil out of all the tribes of Israel, according to all the curses of the COVENANT THAT ARE WRITTEN IN THIS BOOK OF THE LAW.

DEUTERONOMY 31:26 [26], Take this BOOK OF THE LAW, and put it in the SIDE OF THE ARK OF THE COVENANT of the LORD your God, that it may be there for a witness against you.

2 KINGS 23:2 [2], And the king went up into the house of the LORD, and all the men of Judah and all the inhabitants of Jerusalem with him, and the priests, and the prophets, and all the people, both small and great: and HE READ IN THEIR EARS ALL THE WORDS OF THE BOOK OF THE COVENANT which was found in the house of the LORD.

2 KINGS 23:3 [3], And the king stood by a pillar, and made a covenant before the LORD, to walk after the LORD, and to keep his commandments and his testimonies and his statutes with all their heart and all their soul, TO PERFORM THE WORDS OF THIS COVENANT THAT WERE WRITTEN IN THIS BOOK. And all the people stood to the covenant.

2 KINGS 23:21 [21], And the king commanded all the people, saying, KEEP THE PASSOVER OF THE LORD your God, AS IT IS WRITTEN IN THE BOOK OF THIS COVENANT.

HEBREWS 10:7 [7], Then said I, LO I COME IN THE VOLUME OF THE BOOK IT IS WRITTEN OF ME, to do your will, O God.

NOTE: Brother HEBREWS 10 is talking about the shadow laws from the VOLUME OF THE BOOK the point to JESUS and God's plan of salvation in the NEW COVANANT. It is not talking about God's 10 commandments.

.............

Continuing..

[8], Above when he said, Sacrifice and offering and burnt offerings and offering for sin you desired not, neither had pleasure in them; which are offered by the law;
[9], Then said he, Lo, I come to do your will, O God. He takes away the first, that he may establish the second.

NOTE: NEW COVENANT NO MORE ANIMAL SACRIFICES from the MOSAIC BOOK OF THE LAW

[10], By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.
[11], And every priest stands daily ministering and offering frequently the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins:
[12], But this man, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins forever, sat down on the right hand of God;
[13], From then on waiting till his enemies be made his footstool.
[14], For by one offering he has perfected forever them that are sanctified.
[15], The Holy Spirit also is a witness to us: for after this he had said before,
[16], This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, says the Lord, I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them;
[17], And their sins and iniquities will I remember no more.
[18], Now where remission of these is, there is no more offering for sin.
[19], Having therefore, brethren, boldness to enter into the holiest by the blood of Jesus,

NOTE: The NEW COVENANT is NO MORE SHADOW LAWS from the MOSAIC BOOK OF THE COVENANT (Exodus 24:7) God's LAW is to be written in a NEW HEART TO LOVE * ROMANS 13:8-10.

……………..

CONCLUSION: The OLD COVENANT is made up of 1. God’s LAW (10 Commandments) and the Shadow laws from the MOSAIC BOOK OF THE COVENANT. Both laws had a difference purpose under the OLD COVENANT. God’s 10 Commandments have the same role they always had and that is to point out what sin is and the standard of righteousness, while the SHADOW laws from the MOSAIC BOOK OF THE COVENANT pointed to Christ as our true sacrifice for sin and God’s plan of salvation from sin under the NEW COVENANT.

You are mixing up your shadow laws from the MOSAIC BOOK of the COVENANT *EXODUS 24:7 with God's eternal law (10 Commandments) that give us the KNOWLEDGE of GOOD and EVIL; SIN and RIGHTEOUSNESS *ROMANS 3:20; ROMANS 7:7; JAMES 2:3-4; 1 JOHN 3:4; PSALMS 119:172. God's eternal law makes nothing perfect but they show us our need of Christ and that we are all sinners in need of a Saviour. They lead us to the cross of Christ that we might be FORGIVEN by faith and free to walk in God's Spirit *GALATIANS 3:22-25; GALATIANS 5:16.

*If you have no law you have no knowledge of what sin is.
*If you have no knowledge of what sin is you do not know your a sinner.
*If you do not know your a sinner you have no need of a Saviour.
*If you have no need of a Saviour you have no salvation.
*If you have no salvation you are lost because you are still in your sins and the scripture is fulfilled;

ROMANS 2:12-13 [12], For as many as have sinned without law shall also perish without law: and as many as have sinned in the law shall be judged by the law; [13], For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified.

Hope this helps.
 
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LoveGodsWord

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Thanks, and sorry I did not see much of this thread and just focused what was recent. I was unaware that this was discussed.

Anyway, there is nothing said in that verse about any annual or ceremonial sabbath in that verse. Everything that was listed there was generalized, such as meat, drinks.. we all know that the Mosaic bans specific meats and drinks, yet there is nothing specified in 2 Col, so logically we know he is all meats, drinks, and Sabbath etc. So in other words, you can't judge anyone on what day they chose to worship.

Your biggest verse for why we should be worshiping on Saturday is in the OT. The old covenant. If we stick to obeying the Mosaic laws we further deny who Jesus is, because he said he was the new covenant and that he fulfilled the laws, we would we continue those traditions?

Can you do me another favor, can you quote Acts 8:30-31 for me?

Hi Cis.jd, no problems. The posts and scripture provided however show the scripture references that PAUL is referring to from the OLD COVENANT scriptures and links them to the NEW and also show a very detailed breakdown of within scripture and chapter context as to what the Shadow laws are referring to from the OLD COVENANT and OLD TESTAMENT scriptures.

Everything that we have in the NEW TESTAMENT scriptures today come from the OLD TESTAMENT scriptures. Paul is quoting from the OLD TESAMENT scriptures in COLOSSIANS 2 and is referencing the Shadow law from the MOSAIC BOOK of the COVENANT.

If you take some time to go through the scriptures provided you will see (by God's Grace) this will become clear. God's WORD says ALL scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness and we are to live by EVERY WORD of it *2 TIMOTHY 3:16; MATTHEW 4:4.

God's eternal law (the 10 Commandments) give us the KNOWLEDGE of GOOD and EVIL; SIN and RIGHTEOUSNESS *ROMANS 3:20; ROMANS 7:7; JAMES 2:3-4; 1 JOHN 3:4; PSALMS 119:172. God's eternal law makes nothing perfect but they show us our need of Christ and that we are all sinners in need of a Saviour. If you have no law you have no gospel and no saviour.

God's 4th commandment is one of the ten (Exodus 20:8-11) If we knowingly break it when God asks us not to we stand guilty before God of committing sin (James 2:8-12). If we do not seek him in repentance and forgiveness we are in danger of the Judgement (Hebrews 10:26-27)

Sunday worship is a tradition and teaching of man that has lead many to break the commandments of God. Jesus says that if we follow the traditions of man that break the commandments of God we are not following God (Matthew 15:3-9)

There is not one scripture in all of God's Word that says that God's 4th Commandment is now ABOLISHED and we are now commanded to KEEP Sunday as a Holy day.

Who should we follow the teachings and traditions of men or the Word of God? Who should we believe the Words of men or the Word of God?
 
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LoveGodsWord

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I'm a simple person, and not that well educated, but the bible says the Christian is to follow after the Holy Spirit not the written code of the law, so it would seem to me that if all you do is talk about following after the law you are in error according to scripture. I wouldn't call that following sola scripture, just believing what the bible states

Hello Sister Karola, nice to see you here and welcome. We are only saved by grace through faith and not of ourselves it is a gift of God and not of works lest any man should boast *EPEHSIANS 2:8. None are walking in God's SPIRIT however if they are knowingly breaking any of God's commandments, neither do they know God *GALATIANS 5:16; 1 JOHN 2:3-4.

May God bless you as you seek him through his WORD.
 
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Saint Steven

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No it doesn't Steve, your only part quoting HEBREWS 10:1.

Let's look at the scripture you have provided in detail and why I posted earlier that your mixing up the MOSIAC Book of the shadow laws that point to JESUS and God's plan of salvation in the NEW COVENANT with God's eternal laws that give us the knowledge of sin.

HEBREWS 10:1-19
[1], For the law having a SHADOW of good things to come, and not the very image of the things [WHAT LAW WAS A SHADOW?], can never with those sacrifices which they offered year by year continually make the ones approaching perfect.
[2], For then would they not have ceased to be offered? because the worshipers once purged should have had no more consciousness of sins.
[3], But in those sacrifices there is a remembrance again made of sins every year [Day of Atonement *Leviticus 23:27-32].
[4], For it is not possible that the blood of bulls and of goats should take away sins.
[5], Therefore when he comes into the world, he says, Sacrifice and offering you desired not, but a body have you prepared me:
[6], In burnt offerings and sacrifices for sin you have had no pleasure.
[7], Then said I, Lo, I come in the volume of the book it is written of me, to do your will, O God.

.............

NOTE:
What are these Shadow laws of the OLD COVENANT? IT is those from the MOSAIC BOOK OF THE COVENANT v7 is a reference to...

EXODUS 24:7 [7], And he took the BOOK OF THE COVENANT, and read in the audience of the people: and they said, All that the LORD has said will we do, and be obedient.

DEUTERONOMY 29:21 [21], And the LORD shall separate him to evil out of all the tribes of Israel, according to all the curses of the COVENANT THAT ARE WRITTEN IN THIS BOOK OF THE LAW.

DEUTERONOMY 31:26 [26], Take this BOOK OF THE LAW, and put it in the SIDE OF THE ARK OF THE COVENANT of the LORD your God, that it may be there for a witness against you.

2 KINGS 23:2 [2], And the king went up into the house of the LORD, and all the men of Judah and all the inhabitants of Jerusalem with him, and the priests, and the prophets, and all the people, both small and great: and HE READ IN THEIR EARS ALL THE WORDS OF THE BOOK OF THE COVENANT which was found in the house of the LORD.

2 KINGS 23:3 [3], And the king stood by a pillar, and made a covenant before the LORD, to walk after the LORD, and to keep his commandments and his testimonies and his statutes with all their heart and all their soul, TO PERFORM THE WORDS OF THIS COVENANT THAT WERE WRITTEN IN THIS BOOK. And all the people stood to the covenant.

2 KINGS 23:21 [21], And the king commanded all the people, saying, KEEP THE PASSOVER OF THE LORD your God, AS IT IS WRITTEN IN THE BOOK OF THIS COVENANT.

HEBREWS 10:7 [7], Then said I, LO I COME IN THE VOLUME OF THE BOOD IT IS WRITTEN OF ME, to do your will, O God.

NOTE: Brother HEBREWS 10 is talking about the shadow laws from the VOLUME OF THE BOOK the point to JESUS and God's plan of salvation in the NEW COVANANT. It is not talking about God's 10 commandments.

.............

Continuing..

[8], Above when he said, Sacrifice and offering and burnt offerings and offering for sin you desired not, neither had pleasure in them; which are offered by the law;
[9], Then said he, Lo, I come to do your will, O God. He takes away the first, that he may establish the second.

NOTE: NEW COVENANT NO MORE ANIMAL SACRIFICES from the MOSAIC BOOK OF THE LAW

[10], By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.
[11], And every priest stands daily ministering and offering frequently the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins:
[12], But this man, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins forever, sat down on the right hand of God;
[13], From then on waiting till his enemies be made his footstool.
[14], For by one offering he has perfected forever them that are sanctified.
[15], The Holy Spirit also is a witness to us: for after this he had said before,
[16], This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, says the Lord, I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them;
[17], And their sins and iniquities will I remember no more.
[18], Now where remission of these is, there is no more offering for sin.
[19], Having therefore, brethren, boldness to enter into the holiest by the blood of Jesus,

NOTE: The NEW COVENANT is NO MORE SHADOW LAWS from the MOSAIC BOOK OF THE COVENANT (Exodus 24:7) God's LAW is to be written in a NEW HEART TO LOVE * ROMANS 13:8-10.

……………..

CONCLUSION: The OLD COVENANT is made up of 1. God’s LAW (10 Commandments) and the Shadow laws from the MOSAIC BOOK OF THE COVENANT. Both laws had a difference purpose under the OLD COVENANT. God’s 10 Commandments have the same role they always had and that is to point out what sin is and the standard of righteousness, while the SHADOW laws from the MOSAIC BOOK OF THE COVENANT pointed to Christ as our true sacrifice for sin and God’s plan of salvation from sin under the NEW COVENANT.

You are mixing up your shadow laws from the MOSAIC BOOK of the COVENANT *EXODUS 24:7 with God's eternal law (10 Commandments) that give us the KNOWLEDGE of GOOD and EVIL; SIN and RIGHTEOUSNESS *ROMANS 3:20; ROMANS 7:7; JAMES 2:3-4; 1 JOHN 3:4; PSALMS 119:172. God's eternal law makes nothing perfect but they show us our need of Christ and that we are all sinners in need of a Saviour. They lead us to the cross of Christ that we might be FORGIVEN by faith and free to walk in God's Spirit *GALATIANS 3:22-25; GALATIANS 5:16.

*If you have no law you have no knowledge of what sin is.
*If you have no knowledge of what sin is you do not know your a sinner.
*If you do not know your a sinner you have no need of a Saviour.
*If you have no need of a Saviour you have no salvation.
*If you have no salvation you are lost because you are still in your sins and the scripture is fulfilled;

ROMANS 2:12-13 [12], For as many as have sinned without law shall also perish without law: and as many as have sinned in the law shall be judged by the law; [13], For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified.

Hope this helps.
The law is a singular thing.
I know you like to divide it up into manageable parts, but it was a whole thing before YOU divided it up. The Bible doesn't divide it up, but you do.

John 1:16-17
Out of his fullness we have all received grace in place of grace already given. 17 For the law was given through Moses; grace and truth came through Jesus Christ.
 
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Karola

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I admire this intelligent post of yours. However there is a good side to LoveGodsWord that I hope you can see. I understand his commitment to his views, and while he is at error, what he does show is actual proof to the Protestants to this board as to what *we have been telling them in regards to Sola Scriptura.

Let the Protestants try solve this man's interpretation with their interpretation, and hopefully they can remember about all the talks they made about how "Scripture alone" is sufficient.
Can I tell you a story? I was raised in a fundamentalist church(I had to go there, my parents insisted). I’m sure you know what I mean. Some of the minister’s favourite sermons were attacking RC doctrine. I seriously grew up wondering if any catholic could even be a Christian(when you are young you tend just to believe whatever your minister tells you) It was what you would call a sola scripture church.

Anyway, a few years ago I was chatting to a catholic on the internet. He was describing his Christian walk to me. Telling me how he strove to live a pure and sinless life, when he inevitably failed, he went to the priest for confession, believed his sins were cleansed and forgiven, he was then in a sinless state. Then he set out once again to live a pure and sinless life, when he failed he went back to confession, and so it went on. As he was talking to me I was stunned, that was exactly how my Christian walk was in the sola scripture church of my youth, it was as if he was describing my walk to me. I was amazed to tell you the truth, how two people, in two churches many would consider so far apart had in essence the same Christian walk(apart from me not going to see a priest for confession obviously)
 
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LoveGodsWord

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The law is a singular thing. I know you like to divide it up into manageable parts, but it was a whole thing before YOU divided it up. The Bible doesn't divide it up, but you do.

No it isnt Steve, that is why God separated the shadow laws from the MOSAIC BOOK of the COVENANT *EXODUS 24:7 from God's eternal law (the Ten commandments) that he made himself and wrote on two tables of stone placing the ten commandments in the ARK of the COVENANT and the book of the covenant in the side of the ARK *DEUTERONOMY 10:5; DEUTERONOMY 31:26.

The MOSAIC BOOK of the covenant held the shadow laws that pointed to Christ and God's plan of salvation in the NEW COVENANT. While God's eternal laws (the 10 commandments) give us the KNOWLEDGE of GOOD and EVIL; SIN and RIGHTEOUSNESS *ROMANS 3:20; ROMANS 7:7; JAMES 2:3-4; 1 JOHN 3:4; PSALMS 119:172. God's eternal law makes nothing perfect but they show us our need of Christ and that we are all sinners in need of a Saviour. If you have no law you have no gospel and no saviour.

How many laws does scripture say are in God's 10 Commandments; 613; 9 or 10?
Answer *EXODUS 34:28; DEUTERONOMY 4:13; DEUTERONOMY 10:4.

Hope this helps.
 
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Saint Steven

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No it isnt Steve, that is why God separated the shadow laws from the MOSAIC BOOK of the COVENANT *EXODUS 24:7 from God's eternal law (the Ten commandments) that he made himself and wrote on two tables of stone placing the ten commandments in the ARK of the COVENANT and the book of the covenant in the side of the ARK *DEUTERONOMY 10:5; DEUTERONOMY 31:26.

The MOSAIC BOOK of the covenant held the shadow laws that pointed to Christ and God's plan of salvation in the NEW COVENANT. While God's eternal laws (the 10 commandments) give us the KNOWLEDGE of GOOD and EVIL; SIN and RIGHTEOUSNESS *ROMANS 3:20; ROMANS 7:7; JAMES 2:3-4; 1 JOHN 3:4; PSALMS 119:172. God's eternal law makes nothing perfect but they show us our need of Christ and that we are all sinners in need of a Saviour. If you have no law you have no gospel and no saviour.

How many laws does scripture say are in God's 10 Commandments; 613; 9 or 10?
Answer *EXODUS 34:28; DEUTERONOMY 4:13; DEUTERONOMY 10:4.

Hope this helps.
You are welcome to your opinion. But it is only your opinion.
 
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You are welcome to your opinion. But it is only your opinion.
Not really Steve, It is God's WORD not mine and I believe it. I am sorry brother I cannot take credit for it.

May God bless you as you seek him through his WORD.
 
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Saint Steven

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Not really Steve, It is God's WORD not mine and I believe it. I am sorry brother I cannot take credit for it.

May God bless you as you seek him through his WORD.
Are you claiming that I don't believe the Bible?
 
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Hello Sister Karola, nice to see you here and welcome. We are only saved by grace through faith and not of ourselves it is a gift of God and not of works lest any man should boast *EPEHSIANS 2:8. None are walking in God's SPIRIT however if they are knowingly breaking any of God's commandments, neither do they know God *GALATIANS 5:16; 1 JOHN 2:3-4.

May God bless you as you seek him through his WORD.
So I guess you are saying a Christian does not commit known sin, because no one knows God if they knowingly break any of his commandments. So if a Christian only commits unknown sin, how can they repent of their sin?
 
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Hi Cis.jd, no problems. The posts and scripture provided however show the scripture references that PAUL is referring to from the OLD COVENANT scriptures and links them to the NEW and also show a very detailed breakdown of within scripture and chapter context as to what the Shadow laws are referring to from the OLD COVENANT and OLD TESTAMENT scriptures.

Everything that we have in the NEW TESTAMENT scriptures today come from the OLD TESTAMENT scriptures. Paul is quoting from the OLD TESAMENT scriptures in COLOSSIANS 2 and is referencing the Shadow law from the MOSAIC BOOK of the COVENANT.

If you take some time to go through the scriptures provided you will see (by God's Grace) this will become clear. God's WORD says ALL scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness and we are to live by EVERY WORD of it *2 TIMOTHY 3:16; MATTHEW 4:4.

God's eternal law (the 10 Commandments) give us the KNOWLEDGE of GOOD and EVIL; SIN and RIGHTEOUSNESS *ROMANS 3:20; ROMANS 7:7; JAMES 2:3-4; 1 JOHN 3:4; PSALMS 119:172. God's eternal law makes nothing perfect but they show us our need of Christ and that we are all sinners in need of a Saviour. If you have no law you have no gospel and no saviour.

God's 4th commandment is one of the ten (Exodus 20:8-11) If we knowingly break it when God asks us not to we stand guilty before God of committing sin (James 2:8-12). If we do not seek him in repentance and forgiveness we are in danger of the Judgement (Hebrews 10:26-27)

Sunday worship is a tradition and teaching of man that has lead many to break the commandments of God. Jesus says that if we follow the traditions of man that break the commandments of God we are not following God (Matthew 15:3-9)

There is not one scripture in all of God's Word that says that God's 4th Commandment is now ABOLISHED and we are now commanded to KEEP Sunday as a Holy day.

Who should we follow the teachings and traditions of men or the Word of God? Who should we believe the Words of men or the Word of God?

I don't know if you have linked to a definition of "Shadow Laws", because I have never heard of such a word. I even googled it and no such term appears to be showing. Do you mind if I go to Judaism forum and ask about what "Shadow Laws" is?

It is good that you quoted 2 TIMOTHY 3:16 but do you mind quoting Acts 8:30-31 as I asked? I would try to converse with you more on this, but I just need you to quote that verse and I will also come back after asking a Jewish person on what "Shadow Laws" is (unless you can provide a reliable Jewish website that defines what "Shadow Laws" is).

Thank you by the way, brother. I admire and respect your honesty in what you believe. I hope it isn't too much of a hassle that I add on to people you are replying to.. if you wish to save a discussion with me on another day so that you can respond to the ones here, it's no problem.
 
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I don't know if you have linked to a definition of "Shadow Laws", because I have never heard of such a word. I even googled it and no such term appears to be showing. Do you mind if I go to Judaism forum and ask about what "Shadow Laws" is?

It is good that you quoted 2 TIMOTHY 3:16 but do you mind quoting Acts 8:30-31 as I asked? I would try to converse with you more on this, but I just need you to quote that verse and I will also come back after asking a Jewish person on what "Shadow Laws" is (unless you can provide a reliable Jewish website that defines what "Shadow Laws" is).

Thank you by the way, brother. I admire and respect your honesty in what you believe. I hope it isn't too much of a hassle that I add on to people you are replying to.. if you wish to save a discussion with me on another day so that you can respond to the ones here, it's no problem.
That's a great question.
Do the Jews recognize "shadow laws"?
 
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I don't know if you have linked to a definition of "Shadow Laws", because I have never heard of such a word. I even googled it and no such term appears to be showing. Do you mind if I go to Judaism forum and ask about what "Shadow Laws" is? It is good that you quoted 2 TIMOTHY 3:16 but do you mind quoting Acts 8:30-31 as I asked? I would try to converse with you more on this, but I just need you to quote that verse and I will also come back after asking a Jewish person on what "Shadow Laws" is (unless you can provide a reliable Jewish website that defines what "Shadow Laws" is).

Hello brother Cis.jd, please have a look at this post and the scripture linked. This is mainly on HEBREWS 10 which outlines what some of the Shadow laws are.

Take also a look at the following scriptures which I encourage you to read the chapters also...

COLOSSIANS 2:17 Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ.

HEBREWS 8:5 Who serve unto the example and shadow of heavenly things, as Moses was admonished of God when he was about to make the tabernacle: for, See, says he, that you make all things according to the pattern showed to you in the mount.

HEBREWS 10:1 For the law having a shadow of good things to come, and not the very image of the things, can never with those sacrifices which they offered year by year continually make the ones approaching perfect.

I am not sure if you will get much help from a JEWISH person as they do not believe in Christ or the Christian NEW TESTAMENT scriptures I guess as well.
Thank you by the way, brother. I admire and respect your honesty in what you believe. I hope it isn't too much of a hassle that I add on to people you are replying to.. if you wish to save a discussion with me on another day so that you can respond to the ones here, it's no problem.
Always great to chat with you to brother Cis.jd, I think we get a blessing both ways sharing God's WORD together and asking Jesus for his guidence in doing so. The aim is always to have a closer walk with Jesus after all.

God bless brother nice talking with you.
 
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LoveGodsWord

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That's a great question.
Do the Jews recognize "shadow laws"?

I do not think the JEWS would recognise shadow laws as they all pointed to JESUS and God's plan of salvation in the NEW COVENANT. The JEWS as a nation have not accepted Christ or the writings of the NEW TESTAMENT scriptures.
 
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So I guess you are saying a Christian does not commit known sin, because no one knows God if they knowingly break any of his commandments. So if a Christian only commits unknown sin, how can they repent of their sin?

God's WORD says;

1 JOHN 2:1-4
[1], My little children, these things write I unto you, that you sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous:
[2], And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.
[3], And by this we know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.
[4], He that says, I know him, and keeps not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.

NOTE: The reason these scriptures were written by JOHN he says is that we do not sin. If we do sin we have an advocate with the father JESUS. The emphasis in v3-4 in on continuing in known sin. This is further discussed and outlined in 1 JOHN 3:3-9

1 JOHN 3:3-10
[3], And every man that has this hope in him purifies himself, even as he is pure.
[4], Whoever commits sin transgresses also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.
[5], And you know that he was manifested to take away our sins; and in him is no sin.
[6], Whoever stays in him sins not: whoever sins has not seen him, neither known him.
[7], Little children, let no man deceive you: he that does righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.
[8], He that commits sin is of the devil; for the devil sins from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.
[9], Whoever is born of God does not commit sin; for his seed remains in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.
[10], In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whoever does not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loves not his brother.

NOTE: Unrepentant known SIN is the difference between the people of God and the people of the devil. God's people do not practice sin; v6 says we need to abide in Christ to produce God's fruit of obedience. This is further discussed by Jesus in MATTHEW 15:1-6 and why we need to be born again to love because LOVE is the fulfilling of God's law in all those who BELIEVE and FOLLOW God's WORD and is the promise of the NEW COVENANT *HEBREWS 8:10-12; ROMANS 3:31; ROMANS 13:8-10 and is why Jesus says; On these two commandments [Love to God and Love to man] hang all the law and the prophets *MATTHEW 22:36-40 and IF you LOVE me keep my commandments *JOHN 14:15; 15:10.

.................

WHO ARE GOD'S PEOPLE?

REVELATION 12:17, And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ

REVELATION 14:12, Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.

.................

WHO ARE THOSE THAT RECEIVE ETERNAL LIFE?

REVELATION 22:14, Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.


..................

WHO HAS GOD'S SPIRIT?

ACTS 5:32, And we are his witnesses of these things; and so is also the Holy Spirit, WHOM GOD HAS GIVEN TO THEM WHO OBEY HIM.

................

SIN is the breaking of God's Commandments (James 2:9-11; Romans 7:7; 1 John 3:4)

Those who CONTINUE in UNREPENTANT SIN will NOT enter into the KINGDOM of HEAVEN.

................

God's 4th commandment is one of the ten (Exodus 20:8-11) If we knowingly break it when God asks us not to we stand guilty before God of committing sin (James 2:8-12). If we do not seek him in repentance and forgiveness we are in danger of the Judgement (Hebrews 10:26-27)

Sunday worship is a tradition and teaching of man that has led many to break the commandments of God. Jesus says that if we follow the traditions of man that break the commandments of God we are not following God (Matthew 15:3-9)

There is not one scripture in all of God's Word that says that God's 4th Commandment is now ABOLISHED and we are now commanded to KEEP Sunday as a Holy day.

Who should we follow the teachings and traditions of men or the Word of God? Who should we believe the Words of men or the Word of God?

In times of ignorance God winks at but now ,<when a KNOWLEDGE of the truth has come> calls all men everywhere to REPENT (FOLLOW) (Acts 17:30-31).

May God bless you as you seek him through his Word.
 
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