Believers stay righteous by practicing righteousness

BCsenior said:

This multitude of Scripture verses should convince us that “works righteousness” is ALSO required for salvation.

Click to expand...

that is a misunderstanding of those verses.

BCsenior said:

Scripture teaches that one’s righteous standing before God can be lost. Believers must be sanctified unto holiness progressively – for salvation is a process!

“… let no one deceive you. He who practices righteousness is righteous just as He is righteous. He who sins is of the devil … Whoever has been born of God does not sin (habitually) … In this the children of God and the children of the devil are manifest: whoever does not practice righteousness is not of God” (1 John 3:7-10)
Notice who “the children of God” are vs. who belongs to Satan. Believers who are “faithful” will be obedient to Jesus’ commandments and practice righteousness … and will have a standing of righteousness before the Lord.

“… you know that everyone who practices righteousness is born of Him.” (1 John 2:29)
But, do all believers who are born of God practice righteousness?

“… who fears Him and works righteousness is accepted by Him” (Acts 10:35)

“All Scripture … is profitable for … instruction in righteousness (i.e. instruction in the practicing of righteousness)” (2 Timothy 3:16)

“… we, having died to sins, should live for righteousness (i.e. live for the practicing of righteousness)” (1 Peter 2:24)

“But you, O man of God, flee these things
and pursue righteousness and a godly life …
Run from anything that stimulates youthful lusts.
Instead, pursue righteous living”
(1 Timothy 6:11, 2 Timothy 2:22)

“… you can choose to obey God, which leads to righteous living … Now you must give yourselves
to be slaves to righteous living so that you will become holy.” (Romans 6:16-19)
“holiness, without which no one will see the Lord.” (Hebrews 12:14)

“Seek the Kingdom of God above all else
and live righteously” (Matthew 6:33)
Yes, we need to seek to live like Jesus lived,
which is righteously!

“But we who live by the Spirit eagerly wait to receive by faith the righteousness God has promised to us.” (Galatians 5:5)
Living by the Spirit (practicing righteousness)
results in continuing to be righteous!

“I want you to understand what really matters,
so that you may live pure and blameless lives
until the day of Christ’s return. May you always
be filled with the fruit of your salvation –
the righteous character produced in your life
by Jesus Christ” (Philippians 1:10-11)
The fruit of being saved is a lifestyle of righteousness!

“Anyone who continues to live in him will not sin … Those who have been born into God’s family do not make a practice of sinning … We know that God’s children do not make a practice of sinning”
(1 John 3:6, 3:9, 5:18)

“For it would have been better if they had never known the way to righteousness than to know it and then reject the command they were given to live a holy life.” (2 Peter 2:21)

“The wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men who suppress the truth (by living) in unrighteousness.” (Romans 1:18)

Of course, this is all a continuation of what God demanded in the old covenant:
“Whoever offers praise glorifies Me; and to him who orders his conduct aright (i.e. by practicing righteousness) I will show the salvation of God.” (Psalms 50:23)

This multitude of Scripture verses should convince us that “works righteousness” is ALSO required for salvation.

Click to expand...

Concerning your salvation by works soteriology, you're misreading scripture. It's not a matter of "staying righteous" based on one's performance, but rather a person's performance reveals whether or not they are righteous.

Besides, "No one who is born of God will continue to sin, because God’s seed remains in him; he cannot go on sinning, because he has been born of God. This is how we know who the children of God are and who the children of the devil are: Anyone who does not do what is right is not a child of God; nor is anyone who does not love his brother." 1John 3:9,10

So, due to the nature of regeneration, those born of God are incapable of living in sin. It's not performance based salvation, as you see it, but salvation based performance. Those who have been saved, and as such are Eternally Security, characteristically behave righteously.

BCsenior said:

'Tis the same thing.
Practice righteousness!!!
If you don't practice righteousness,
you have proven that you're not righteous (saved).

Click to expand...

Nope, not the same thing. Salvation by works Christians trust in their performance to save them. Salvation by faith Christians trust in Christ alone to save them apart from issues of performance. They do good works as saved eternally secure believers. You're saying to be justified by the Law is the same as being justified by faith.

BCsenior said:

I don't consider loving Jesus enough to
obey (keep) His commandments as "works".
Do you?
To summarize the summary: Is obedience "works"?
IMO, obedience works to save you!

Click to expand...

Is salvation contingent upon works? The scripture itself answer, "For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith— and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God— not by works, so that no one can boast." Eph 2:8,9

To reject the grace of God in favor of salvation by works doesn't seem to me to be characteristic of saving faith.

"This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He sent." John 6:29 If you trust in your own works to save you rather than trusting in Jesus to save you, you're not doing the works of God, according to Jesus.

bcbsr said:

Is salvation contingent upon works? The scripture itself answer, "For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith— and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God— not by works, so that no one can boast." Eph 2:8,9

To reject the grace of God in favor of salvation by works doesn't seem to me to be characteristic of saving faith.

"This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He sent." John 6:29 If you trust in your own works to save you rather than trusting in Jesus to save you, you're not doing the works of God, according to Jesus.

Click to expand...

Why do you reject the very words of the Savior?

Matthew 19:17
...but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.

EmSw said:

Why do you reject the very words of the Savior?

Matthew 19:17
...but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.

Click to expand...

In Mt 19:17 Jesus is speaking of justification by law. He's challenging this man who casually uses the word "good" with the law for the purpose of showing him that he cannot be saved by following the law, as it is written, "Therefore the law was our tutor to bring us to Christ, that we might be justified by faith." Gal 3:24 and "Therefore no one will be declared righteous in his sight by observing the law; rather, through the law we become conscious of sin." Rom 3:20

But as salvation by works Christians are themselves trying to be justified by law, they view Mt 19:17 as the gospel of salvation rather than Jesus convicting the man of sin so that he we seek grace rather than a performance based salvation soteriology. When the guy called him "good", why do you suppose Jesus said that no one is good but God alone?

If a person thinks they're good enough to be saved, they aren't. And what they need is humiliation and conviction of sin so that they abandon salvation by works and seek God grace and the FREE GIFT of eternal life by faith apart from works. That's what Jesus was doing in much of his ministry.

bcbsr said:

In Mt 19:17 Jesus is speaking of justification by law. He's challenging this man who casually uses the word "good" with the law for the purpose of showing him that he cannot be saved by following the law, as it is written, "Therefore the law was our tutor to bring us to Christ, that we might be justified by faith." Gal 3:24 and "Therefore no one will be declared righteous in his sight by observing the law; rather, through the law we become conscious of sin." Rom 3:20

Click to expand...

Sorry, this is not at all what is said. Jesus did not use the word 'good' with any connection with the law. Jesus did not say the law brought them to Him. Jesus said nothing of being justified by the law. Jesus said nothing of becoming conscious of sin through the law.

As far as grace is concerned, do you remember this passage?

John 1:17
For the law was given by Moses, but grace and truth came by Jesus Christ.

When we read the living words of Jesus, we are reading about grace, for grace came by Jesus. I know many will not admit His words were words of grace.

bcbsr said:

But as salvation by works Christians are themselves trying to be justified by law, they view Mt 19:17 as the gospel of salvation rather than Jesus convicting the man of sin so that he we seek grace rather than a performance based salvation soteriology. When the guy called him "good", why do you suppose Jesus said that no one is good but God alone?

Click to expand...

I view Matthew 19:17 as His words of grace. Jesus gave the way of salvation by grace.

I believe He told the young man to seek keeping the commandments to enter life. Why don't you believe the words of Jesus as truth?

Jesus said no one is good but God, because it is the truth. Jesus was referring to the young man calling Him 'Good Master'. It was not referring to the law at all.

Matthew 19
16 And, behold, one came and said unto him, Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life?
17 And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.

After Jesus told him about God being the only one good, He then said, 'but...'. Jesus said no one is good but God, referring to no one has eternal life by being good. Then He answered the young man's question (what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life?)

It wasn't about doing any good thing to have eternal life, BUT, if anyone, you and I included, will enter life, keep the commandments. Jesus plainly states how to enter life. But those who do not love Jesus, will argue until they are purple in the face, that they do not need to keep the commandments.

However, Jesus undeniably tells us this -

John 14:15
If ye love me, keep my commandments.

My friend, this is the message of grace, and it comes straight from the OT.

Deuteronomy 5:10
And shewing mercy unto thousands of them that love me and keep my commandments.

And we have this -

Deuteronomy 11:1
Therefore you shall love the Lord your God, and keep His charge, His statutes, His judgments, and His commandments always.

Do you notice the very last word? What do you think 'always' means? Do you think it means 'temporarily'? Perhaps you think it means it comes to an end.

bcbsr said:

If a person thinks they're good enough to be saved, they aren't. And what they need is humiliation and conviction of sin so that they abandon salvation by works and seek God grace and the FREE GIFT of eternal life by faith apart from works. That's what Jesus was doing in much of his ministry.

Click to expand...

I have never heard anyone say they are good enough to be saved. Have you?

What a person needs is to hear and learn from God.

John 6:45
It is written in the prophets, ‘And they shall all be taught by God.’ Therefore everyone who has heard and learned from the Father comes to Me.

Jesus NEVER, EVER said anything about eternal life being by faith apart from works. If you are going to tell us what Jesus did in His ministry, perhaps you should actually read what He did and said in Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John.

EmSw said:

Sorry, this is not at all what is said. Jesus did not use the word 'good' with any connection with the law. Jesus did not say the law brought them to Him. Jesus said nothing of being justified by the law.

Click to expand...

No, you're mistaken. Here is what he said in that Mt 19 passage:
17 "Why do you ask me about what is good?" Jesus replied. "There is only One who is good. If you want to enter life, obey the commandments."
18 "Which ones?" the man inquired. Jesus replied, "’Do not murder, do not commit adultery, do not steal, do not give false testimony,
19 honor your father and mother,’ and ‘love your neighbor as yourself.’

He quoting commandments from the Law of Moses. So he is talking about justification by Law.

EmSw said:

It wasn't about doing any good thing to have eternal life, BUT, if anyone, you and I included, will enter life, keep the commandments.

Click to expand...

So you're saying that keeping the commandments is not good.

EmSw said:

Jesus NEVER, EVER said anything about eternal life being by faith apart from works. If you are going to tell us what Jesus did in His ministry, perhaps you should actually read what He did and said in Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John.

Click to expand...

Really! Ever read the gospel of John?

"I tell you the truth, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life and will not be condemned; he has crossed over from death to life." John 5:24

BCsenior said:

Scripture teaches that one’s righteous standing before God can be lost. Believers must be sanctified unto holiness progressively – for salvation is a process!

Click to expand...

You have unfortunately conflated salvation with spiritual growth. One's "righteous standing" is their status of salvation, on the basis of faith in Christ, which will be proven further on. But progressive sanctification is the process by which the believer is supposed to "grow up with respect to their salvation", per 1 Pet 2:2.

John 5:24, 6:47, 1 John 5:11 and 13 say that those who believe possess eternal life. Therefore, it is obvious that eternal life is given WHEN one believes, the MOMENT they believe. Therefore, salvation is NOT a process, contrary to the RCC.

“… let no one deceive you. He who practices righteousness is righteous just as He is righteous. He who sins is of the devil … Whoever has been born of God does not sin (habitually) … In this the children of God and the children of the devil are manifest: whoever does not practice righteousness is not of God” (1 John 3:7-10)
Notice who “the children of God” are vs. who belongs to Satan. Believers who are “faithful” will be obedient to Jesus’ commandments and practice righteousness … and will have a standing of righteousness before the Lord.

“… you know that everyone who practices righteousness is born of Him.” (1 John 2:29)
But, do all believers who are born of God practice righteousness?

“… who fears Him and works righteousness is accepted by Him” (Acts 10:35)

“All Scripture … is profitable for … instruction in righteousness (i.e. instruction in the practicing of righteousness)” (2 Timothy 3:16)

“… we, having died to sins, should live for righteousness (i.e. live for the practicing of righteousness)” (1 Peter 2:24)

“But you, O man of God, flee these things
and pursue righteousness and a godly life …
Run from anything that stimulates youthful lusts.
Instead, pursue righteous living”
(1 Timothy 6:11, 2 Timothy 2:22)

“… you can choose to obey God, which leads to righteous living … Now you must give yourselves
to be slaves to righteous living so that you will become holy.” (Romans 6:16-19)
“holiness, without which no one will see the Lord.” (Hebrews 12:14)

“Seek the Kingdom of God above all else
and live righteously” (Matthew 6:33)
Yes, we need to seek to live like Jesus lived,
which is righteously!

“But we who live by the Spirit eagerly wait to receive by faith the righteousness God has promised to us.” (Galatians 5:5)
Living by the Spirit (practicing righteousness)
results in continuing to be righteous!

“I want you to understand what really matters,
so that you may live pure and blameless lives
until the day of Christ’s return. May you always
be filled with the fruit of your salvation –
the righteous character produced in your life
by Jesus Christ” (Philippians 1:10-11)
The fruit of being saved is a lifestyle of righteousness!

“Anyone who continues to live in him will not sin … Those who have been born into God’s family do not make a practice of sinning … We know that God’s children do not make a practice of sinning”
(1 John 3:6, 3:9, 5:18)

“For it would have been better if they had never known the way to righteousness than to know it and then reject the command they were given to live a holy life.” (2 Peter 2:21)

“The wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men who suppress the truth (by living) in unrighteousness.” (Romans 1:18)

Of course, this is all a continuation of what God demanded in the old covenant:
“Whoever offers praise glorifies Me; and to him who orders his conduct aright (i.e. by practicing righteousness) I will show the salvation of God.” (Psalms 50:23)

Click to expand...

6 of these verses were written by Paul. But you didn't include any of the verses where Paul spoke of the believer being declared righteous. Why is that?

Rom 1:17 - For in the gospel the righteousness of God is revealed—a righteousness that is by faith from first to last, just as it is written: “The righteous will live by faith.”

Rom 3-
20 Therefore no one will be declared righteous in God’s sight by the works of the law; rather, through the law we become conscious of our sin.
21 But now apart from the law the righteousness of God has been made known, to which the Law and the Prophets testify.
22 This righteousness is given through faith in Jesus Christ to all who believe. There is no difference between Jew and Gentile,

Rom 4-
3 What does Scripture say? “Abraham believed God, and it (his faith) was credited to him as righteousness.”
5 However, to the one who does not work but trusts God who justifies the ungodly, their faith is credited as righteousness.
6 David says the same thing when he speaks of the blessedness of the one to whom God credits righteousness apart from works:
9 Is this blessedness only for the circumcised, or also for the uncircumcised? We have been saying that Abraham’s faith was credited to him as righteousness.
11 And he received circumcision as a sign, a seal of the righteousness that he had by faith while he was still uncircumcised. So then, he is the father of all who believe but have not been circumcised, in order that righteousness might be credited to them.
13 It was not through the law that Abraham and his offspring received the promise that he would be heir of the world, but through the righteousness that comes by faith.
22 This is why “it was credited to him as righteousness.”
24 but also for us, to whom God will credit righteousness—for us who believe in him who raised Jesus our Lord from the dead.

Gal 3:6 - So also Abraham “believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness.”

Phil 3:9 - and be found in him, not having a righteousness of my own that comes from the law, but that which is through faith in Christ—the righteousness that comes from God on the basis of faith.

Titus 3:5 - he saved us, not because of righteous things we had done, but because of his mercy. He saved us through the washing of rebirth and renewal by the Holy Spirit,

These verses clearly state that the righteousness of God is credited to man on the basis of faith in Jesus Christ, NOT by "practicing righteousness".

In fact, unless a person has believed in Christ for salvation, they CANNOT "practice righteousness" at all.

So, no one becomes righteous by practicing anything. One is declared or credited with God's righteousness by faith in Christ.

This multitude of Scripture verses should convince us that “works righteousness” is ALSO required for salvation.

Click to expand...

I believe what Paul wrote above soundly refutes this claim.

Esp: Rom 3:20,21, 4:5,6,13, Phil 3:9 and Titus 3:5.

bcbsr said:

No, you're mistaken. Here is what he said in that Mt 19 passage:
17 "Why do you ask me about what is good?" Jesus replied. "There is only One who is good. If you want to enter life, obey the commandments."
18 "Which ones?" the man inquired. Jesus replied, "’Do not murder, do not commit adultery, do not steal, do not give false testimony,
19 honor your father and mother,’ and ‘love your neighbor as yourself.’

Click to expand...

Do you want to enter life? Or, would you rather do it your way? I believe the Savior Himself knows much more about entering life than you do.

bcbsr said:

He quoting commandments from the Law of Moses. So he is talking about justification by Law.

So you're saying that keeping the commandments is not good.

Click to expand...

Justification by the law, huh? Care to find that in the passages given?

Who said keeping the commandments is not good? I agree with Jesus that no one but God is good.

bcbsr said:

Really! Ever read the gospel of John?

Click to expand...

Are you talking about these passages?

John 14:15
If you love Me, keep My commandments.

John 14:21
He who has My commandments and keeps them, it is he who loves Me. And he who loves Me will be loved by My Father, and I will love him and manifest Myself to him.

John 15:10
If you keep My commandments, you will abide in My love, just as I have kept My Father’s commandments and abide in His love.

How is it you think Jesus abolished the commandments? Again, Jesus knows more than you. Perhaps you should listen to Him and believe His words.

bcbsr said:

"I tell you the truth, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life and will not be condemned; he has crossed over from death to life."

Click to expand...

bcbsr said:

John 5:24

Click to expand...

I just gave you His words above. Do you hear them?

Do you hear these words of Jesus?

Matthew 19:17
...But if you want to enter into life, keep the commandments.

It seems you have a difficult time believing Jesus' words.

FreeGrace2 said:

You have unfortunately conflated salvation with spiritual growth. One's "righteous standing" is their status of salvation, on the basis of faith in Christ, which will be proven further on. But progressive sanctification is the process by which the believer is supposed to "grow up with respect to their salvation", per 1 Pet 2:2.

John 5:24, 6:47, 1 John 5:11 and 13 say that those who believe possess eternal life. Therefore, it is obvious that eternal life is given WHEN one believes, the MOMENT they believe. Therefore, salvation is NOT a process, contrary to the RCC.


6 of these verses were written by Paul. But you didn't include any of the verses where Paul spoke of the believer being declared righteous. Why is that?

Rom 1:17 - For in the gospel the righteousness of God is revealed—a righteousness that is by faith from first to last, just as it is written: “The righteous will live by faith.”

Rom 3-
20 Therefore no one will be declared righteous in God’s sight by the works of the law; rather, through the law we become conscious of our sin.
21 But now apart from the law the righteousness of God has been made known, to which the Law and the Prophets testify.
22 This righteousness is given through faith in Jesus Christ to all who believe. There is no difference between Jew and Gentile,

Rom 4-
3 What does Scripture say? “Abraham believed God, and it (his faith) was credited to him as righteousness.”
5 However, to the one who does not work but trusts God who justifies the ungodly, their faith is credited as righteousness.
6 David says the same thing when he speaks of the blessedness of the one to whom God credits righteousness apart from works:
9 Is this blessedness only for the circumcised, or also for the uncircumcised? We have been saying that Abraham’s faith was credited to him as righteousness.
11 And he received circumcision as a sign, a seal of the righteousness that he had by faith while he was still uncircumcised. So then, he is the father of all who believe but have not been circumcised, in order that righteousness might be credited to them.
13 It was not through the law that Abraham and his offspring received the promise that he would be heir of the world, but through the righteousness that comes by faith.
22 This is why “it was credited to him as righteousness.”
24 but also for us, to whom God will credit righteousness—for us who believe in him who raised Jesus our Lord from the dead.

Gal 3:6 - So also Abraham “believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness.”

Phil 3:9 - and be found in him, not having a righteousness of my own that comes from the law, but that which is through faith in Christ—the righteousness that comes from God on the basis of faith.

Titus 3:5 - he saved us, not because of righteous things we had done, but because of his mercy. He saved us through the washing of rebirth and renewal by the Holy Spirit,

These verses clearly state that the righteousness of God is credited to man on the basis of faith in Jesus Christ, NOT by "practicing righteousness".

In fact, unless a person has believed in Christ for salvation, they CANNOT "practice righteousness" at all.

So, no one becomes righteous by practicing anything. One is declared or credited with God's righteousness by faith in Christ.


I believe what Paul wrote above soundly refutes this claim.

Esp: Rom 3:20,21, 4:5,6,13, Phil 3:9 and Titus 3:5.

Click to expand...

Do you know Him FG2?

1 John 2
3 Now by this we know that we know Him, if we keep His commandments.
4 He who says, “I know Him,” and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.

Do you want to tell us why it doesn't matter if we keep His commandments or not?

EmSw said:

Are you talking about these passages?

John 14:15
If you love Me, keep My commandments.

John 14:21
He who has My commandments and keeps them, it is he who loves Me. And he who loves Me will be loved by My Father, and I will love him and manifest Myself to him.

John 15:10
If you keep My commandments, you will abide in My love, just as I have kept My Father’s commandments and abide in His love.

Click to expand...

Those verses say nothing about getting saved.

A verse (of many) that does, which I quoted, but which you completely ignored is

John 5:24 "I tell you the truth, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life and will not be condemned; he has crossed over from death to life."

Why do you ignore what Jesus said?

EmSw said:

How is it you think Jesus abolished the commandments?

Click to expand...

Eph 2:14,15 "For he himself is our peace, who has made the two one and has destroyed the barrier, the dividing wall of hostility, by abolishing in his flesh the law with its commandments and regulations."

Are you saying that you reject what Jesus said in John 5:24 and what his apostle said in Eph 2:14,15, let alone Romans 4, for the sake of holding on to your salvation by works soteriology?

Rom 10:4-11 Christ is the end of the law so that there may be righteousness for everyone who believes. Moses describes in this way the righteousness that is by the law: "The man who does these things will live by them." But the righteousness that is by faith says: "Do not say in your heart, ‘Who will ascend into heaven?’" (that is, to bring Christ down) "or ‘Who will descend into the deep?’" (that is, to bring Christ up from the dead). But what does it say? "The word is near you; it is in your mouth and in your heart," that is, the word of faith we are proclaiming: That if you confess with your mouth, "Jesus is Lord," and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. For it is with your heart that you believe and are justified, and it is with your mouth that you confess and are saved. As the Scripture says, "Anyone who trusts in him will never be put to shame."

bcbsr said:

Those verses say nothing about getting saved.

A verse (of many) that does, which I quoted, but which you completely ignored is

John 5:24 "I tell you the truth, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life and will not be condemned; he has crossed over from death to life."

Why do you ignore what Jesus said?

Click to expand...

I haven't ignored it. You are ignoring what I said.

Do you hear what Jesus said in Matthew 19:17?

But if you want to enter into life, keep the commandments.

Honestly, are you hearing what Jesus said? And yes, this is talking about getting saved.

bcbsr said:

Eph 2:14,15 "For he himself is our peace, who has made the two one and has destroyed the barrier, the dividing wall of hostility, by abolishing in his flesh the law with its commandments and regulations."

Are you saying that you reject what Jesus said in John 5:24 and what his apostle said in Eph 2:14,15, let alone Romans 4, for the sake of holding on to your salvation by works soteriology?

Rom 10:4-11 Christ is the end of the law so that there may be righteousness for everyone who believes. Moses describes in this way the righteousness that is by the law: "The man who does these things will live by them." But the righteousness that is by faith says: "Do not say in your heart, ‘Who will ascend into heaven?’" (that is, to bring Christ down) "or ‘Who will descend into the deep?’" (that is, to bring Christ up from the dead). But what does it say? "The word is near you; it is in your mouth and in your heart," that is, the word of faith we are proclaiming: That if you confess with your mouth, "Jesus is Lord," and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. For it is with your heart that you believe and are justified, and it is with your mouth that you confess and are saved. As the Scripture says, "Anyone who trusts in him will never be put to shame."

Click to expand...

Let me give you a passage by one of His disciples who walked daily with Him.

1 John 2:4
He who says, “I know Him,” and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.

Do you say you know Him? John says if you don't keep His commandments, you are a liar and do not have the truth in you.

Tell me why we don't have to keep His commandments? And tell me, from this verse, how is it you say salvation without works? So, if you don't keep His commandments, are you lying to everyone? If you don't keep His commandments, what you say about salvation without works is not the truth.

EmSw said:

Do you know Him FG2?

Click to expand...

Of course I do. Your question is silly.

1 John 2
3 Now by this we know that we know Him, if we keep His commandments.
4 He who says, “I know Him,” and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.

Do you want to tell us why it doesn't matter if we keep His commandments or not?

Click to expand...

I've NEVER EVER said it "doesn't matter if we keep His commandments or not".

So quit making up stuff about what I believe. This is merely a smear. You know better.

If any believer wants to avoid painful discipline (Heb 12:11) and receive reward in eternity, it matters a GREAT DEAL.

But, contrary to your false doctrine, keeping commandments doesn't get one into heaven. That's what the Pharisees thought, and Jesus condemned them regularly.

Rom 3:20 - Therefore no one will be declared righteous in God’s sight by the works of the law; rather, through the law we become conscious of our sin.
v.28 - For we maintain that a person is justified by faith apart from the works of the law.
Gal 2:16 - know that a person is not justified by the works of the law, but by faith in Jesus Christ. So we, too, have put our faith in Christ Jesus that we may be justified by faith in Christ and not by the works of the law, because by the works of the law no one will be justified.
Gal 3-
10 For all who rely on the works of the law are under a curse, as it is written: “Cursed is everyone who does not continue to do everything written in the Book of the Law.”
18 For if the inheritance depends on the law, then it no longer depends on the promise; but God in his grace gave it to Abraham through a promise.
19 Why, then, was the law given at all? It was added because of transgressions until the Seed to whom the promise referred had come. The law was given through angels and entrusted to a mediator.
20 A mediator, however, implies more than one party; but God is one.
21 Is the law, therefore, opposed to the promises of God? Absolutely not! For if a law had been given that could impart life, then righteousness would certainly have come by the law.
22 But Scripture has locked up everything under the control of sin, so that what was promised, being given through faith in Jesus Christ, might be given to those who believe.
23 Before the coming of this faith, we were held in custody under the law, locked up until the faith that was to come would be revealed.
24 So the law was our guardian until Christ came that we might be justified by faith.
25 Now that this faith has come, we are no longer under a guardian.
26 So in Christ Jesus you are all children of God through faith,

I'll end with this:
John 5-
39 You study the Scriptures diligently because you think that in them you have eternal life. These are the very Scriptures that testify about me,
40yet you refuse to come to me to have life.

You go ahead and go to the Law and keep the commandments, and see how far that will get you. You'll end up just as the Pharisees ended up; dying in their sins, per John 8.

I know Christ because I have come to Him for life. There is no life in the commandments.

Everyone who has read Galatians 3 knows that.

FreeGrace2 said:

Of course I do. Your question is silly.

Click to expand...

Who knows, maybe your answer is silly too.

FreeGrace2 said:

I've NEVER EVER said it "doesn't matter if we keep His commandments or not".

So quit making up stuff about what I believe. This is merely a smear. You know better.

If any believer wants to avoid painful discipline (Heb 12:11) and receive reward in eternity, it matters a GREAT DEAL.

Click to expand...

Then I'll ask, does one need to keep the commandments to enter life? Let's see if you smear Jesus and His words of truth.

Actually, Jesus never said anything about painful discipline if we don't keep His commandments. What He actually said is if we want to enter life, keep the commandments. So, it's not about any painful discipline, but rather, about not entering life.

FreeGrace2 said:

But, contrary to your false doctrine, keeping commandments doesn't get one into heaven. That's what the Pharisees thought, and Jesus condemned them regularly.

Click to expand...

So you think Jesus gave us false doctrine. Jesus did say if we want to enter life, keep the commandments. So, He did say keeping the commandments does get one into heaven.

It seems you lay one piece of a puzzle on the table, and you have a completed puzzle. Not so, you must put it all together to see the whole picture.

FreeGrace2 said:

You go ahead and go to the Law and keep the commandments, and see how far that will get you. You'll end up just as the Pharisees ended up; dying in their sins, per John 8.

Click to expand...

And what are your chances being lawless?

Here again, you make a mockery of keeping His commandments.

FreeGrace2 said:

I know Christ because I have come to Him for life. There is no life in the commandments.

Everyone who has read Galatians 3 knows that.

Click to expand...

No life in the commandments??? Well, this explains a lot about you. I see you don't really believe Jesus, for He said 'if you want to enter life, keep the commandments'.

Revelation 22:14
Blessed are those who do His commandments, that they may have the right to the tree of life, and may enter through the gates into the city.

Can you read and understand these words? Those who DO HIS COMMANDMENTS have the right to the tree of LIFE.

As far as knowing Him, we are told by Jesus Himself the following -

John 14:21
He who has My commandments and keeps them, it is he who loves Me. And he who loves Me will be loved by My Father, and I will love him and manifest Myself to him.

It is those who have His commandments and keeps them who love Him. And it is those to whom He will reveal Himself. No one knows Jesus without keeping His commandments.

EmSw said:

Then I'll ask, does one need to keep the commandments to enter life? Let's see if you smear Jesus and His words of truth.

Click to expand...

No, no one EVER "enters life" by keeping commandments. What you erroneously assume that what Jesus opened his conversation with the rich man was how to get into heaven was really only an opening to show the man that no one EVER enters life by keeping the commandments, because no one CAN keep the commandments.

So you think Jesus gave us false doctrine.

Click to expand...

You must be delirious. You're the one who rejects what Jesus says about how to have salvation/eternal life.
Salvation:

Mark 16:16 " He who has believed and has been baptized shall be saved; but he who has disbelieved shall be condemned.

Luke 8:12 "Those beside the road are those who have heard; then the devil comes and takes away the word from their heart, so that they will not believe and be saved.

Acts 4:12 "And there is salvation in no one else; for there is no other name under heaven that has been given among men by which we must be saved."

Acts 11:14 and he will speak words to you by which you will be saved, you and all your household.'

Acts 16:31They said, “Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved, you and your household."

Rom 10:9, 10 9 that if you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved; 10 for with the heart a person believes, resulting in righteousness, and with the mouth he confesses, resulting in salvation.

Rom 1:16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel, for it is the power of God for salvation to everyone who believes, to the Jew first and also to the Greek.

1 Cor 1:21 - For since in the wisdom of God the world through its wisdom did not know him, God was pleased through the foolishness of what was preached to save those who believe.

Eph 2:8 For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God;

2 Tim 3:15 and that from childhood you have known the sacred writings which are able to give you the wisdom that leads to salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus.

1 Peter 1:5 who are protected by the power of God through faith for a salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.

1 Peter 1:9 obtaining as the outcome of your faith the salvation of your souls.

2 Thess 2:13 But we should always give thanks to God for you, brethren beloved by the Lord, because God has chosen you from the beginning for salvation through sanctification by the Spirit and faith in the truth.

Eternal Life:

John 3:15-16 15 so that whoever believes will in Him have eternal life. 16 "For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life.

John 3:36 "He who believes in the Son has eternal life; but he who does not obey the Son will not see life, but the wrath of God abides on him."

John 5:24 "Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life.

John 6:40 "For this is the will of My Father, that everyone who beholds the Son and believes in Him will have eternal life, and I Myself will raise him up on the last day."

John 6:47 "Truly, truly, I say to you, he who believes has eternal life.

Rom 6:23 For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord

1 Tim 1:16 Yet for this reason I found mercy, so that in me as the foremost, Jesus Christ might demonstrate His perfect patience as an example for those who would believe in Him for eternal life.

Gal 3:22 But the Scripture has shut up everyone under sin, so that the promise by faith in Jesus Christ might be given to those who believe.

1 John 5:13 These things I have written to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, so that you may know that you have eternal life.

You've seen this list before, so the fact that you continue to push the false agenda that keeping the commandments is the way to have eternal life only demonstrates your rejection of truth.

Jesus did say if we want to enter life, keep the commandments. So, He did say keeping the commandments does get one into heaven.

Click to expand...

No, He was making a point to a guy who thought like you; that keeping the commandments was a ticket to heaven. So Jesus proved to him that he didn't keep all of them.

It seems you lay one piece of a puzzle on the table, and you have a completed puzzle. Not so, you must put it all together to see the whole picture.

Click to expand...

You don't even have one piece.

And what are your chances being lawless?

Click to expand...

Chances of what? Or for what?

Here again, you make a mockery of keeping His commandments.

Click to expand...

No, you make a mockery of all the verses where Jesus said those who believe in Him will be given eternal life. Nothing about keeping commandments.

No life in the commandments???

Click to expand...

Show me any verse that says there is life in keeping the commandments.

Well, this explains a lot about you. I see you don't really believe Jesus, for He said 'if you want to enter life, keep the commandments'.

Click to expand...

Yes, you are very delirious.

Revelation 22:14
Blessed are those who do His commandments, that they may have the right to the tree of life, and may enter through the gates into the city.

Can you read and understand these words? Those who DO HIS COMMANDMENTS have the right to the tree of LIFE.

Click to expand...

Of course I can read and understand these words. Jesus is speaking of eternal REWARD, not salvation here. Why do you ignore the context?

Here's the context for v.14 -
12 “Look, I am coming soon! My reward is with me, and I will give to each person according to what they have done.
13 I am the Alpha and the Omega, the First and the Last, the Beginning and the End.
14 “Blessed are those who wash their robes, that they may have the right to the tree of life and may go through the gates into the city.

So, you see, it's you who don't understand what Jesus was saying.

As far as knowing Him, we are told by Jesus Himself the following -

John 14:21
He who has My commandments and keeps them, it is he who loves Me. And he who loves Me will be loved by My Father, and I will love him and manifest Myself to him.

Click to expand...

Why do you use a verse that doesn't say ANYTHING about what you push?

It is those who have His commandments and keeps them who love Him.

Click to expand...

I don't argue with that.

And it is those to whom He will reveal Himself. No one knows Jesus without keeping His commandments.

Click to expand...

Wrong again. We know Him by knowing what He says and believing all His words. And properly understanding how He used His opening statement with the rich man to show him that he couldn't keep the commandments.

Neither can you. The Bible says so. So you are self deceived.