WHO IS GOD'S TRUE CHURCH ACCORDING TO GOD'S WORD?

parousia70 · Oct 24, 2018

Halbhh said:
This made me curious, and Titus is from Paul, not Peter, so it's Paul instructing Titus to appoint elders in churches. Also, considering what is in Galatians chapter 2, would that mean you see Paul as being the lead bishop (or 'pope') instead of Peter? My own understanding on this is that the Holy Spirit was sent down onto all of the disciples, not only one, and all are to be servants, not only one. But if there is a lead bishop, then it seems to change at times without the participation of men in the choice making, but instead the choice is made from above, without men determining. It happens to us, instead of from us. I suppose the question here is: how do you account for the reality in Galatians chapter 2 if you think Peter was the pope until he passed on? Another related question: why should we think one bishop is the lead bishop? That does not seem to fit the overall picture in Acts and the epistles. (There is still a Leader, still a head of the Church, Christ our Lord)

All the apostles passed on their ordination to the bishops. But Peter's ordination was one of being the King's prime minister (Mt 16:18-19), as was true of men like Eliakim and Shebna in O.T. times (see Isa 22:15-24). Moreover, this teaching wasn't a source of controversy until Luther's followers began to break away from the bible's teaching on bishops.

Francis IS WITHOUT QUESTION the 266th successor of the Prime Minister of the King, Bishop of the Church of Rome, an apostolic Church which appears in our bibles.

With respect, no one doubted the authority of Peter and his successors until after the 1500s. The early Christians believed it and taught it. Jesus clearly gave St. Peter the keys of the kingdom (Mt 16:18-19), and the power invested in Peter was the same as when the O.T. kings bestowed the keys on their prime ministers. Please read Isaiah 22:15-24 to see what power was invested in the prime minister of Israel's king.

He gave His own keys of the Kingdom to Peter (Mt 16:18-19), and the power this conferred upon Peter is detailed at Isaiah 22:15-24, when the O.T. kings gave the keys to their prime ministers.

Halbhh · Oct 24, 2018

parousia70 said:
All the apostles passed on their ordination to the bishops. But Peter's ordination was one of being the King's prime minister (Mt 16:18-19), as was true of men like Eliakim and Shebna in O.T. times (see Isa 22:15-24). Moreover, this teaching wasn't a source of controversy until Luther's followers began to break away from the bible's teaching on bishops.

Francis IS WITHOUT QUESTION the 266th successor of the Prime Minister of the King, Bishop of the Church of Rome, an apostolic Church which appears in our bibles.

With respect, no one doubted the authority of Peter and his successors until after the 1500s. The early Christians believed it and taught it. Jesus clearly gave St. Peter the keys of the kingdom (Mt 16:18-19), and the power invested in Peter was the same as when the O.T. kings bestowed the keys on their prime ministers. Please read Isaiah 22:15-24 to see what power was invested in the prime minister of Israel's king.

He gave His own keys of the Kingdom to Peter (Mt 16:18-19), and the power this conferred upon Peter is detailed at Isaiah 22:15-24, when the O.T. kings gave the keys to their prime ministers.

Thank you. Have you read the full chapter? On your advice, I read through Isaiah 22 NIV, all the chapter, not leaving out anything. If you do read the full chapter....it's something alright.

Halbhh · Oct 24, 2018

parousia70 said:
All the apostles passed on their ordination to the bishops. But Peter's ordination was one of being the King's prime minister (Mt 16:18-19), as was true of men like Eliakim and Shebna in O.T. times (see Isa 22:15-24). Moreover, this teaching wasn't a source of controversy until Luther's followers began to break away from the bible's teaching on bishops.

Francis IS WITHOUT QUESTION the 266th successor of the Prime Minister of the King, Bishop of the Church of Rome, an apostolic Church which appears in our bibles.

With respect, no one doubted the authority of Peter and his successors until after the 1500s. The early Christians believed it and taught it. Jesus clearly gave St. Peter the keys of the kingdom (Mt 16:18-19), and the power invested in Peter was the same as when the O.T. kings bestowed the keys on their prime ministers. Please read Isaiah 22:15-24 to see what power was invested in the prime minister of Israel's king.

He gave His own keys of the Kingdom to Peter (Mt 16:18-19), and the power this conferred upon Peter is detailed at Isaiah 22:15-24, when the O.T. kings gave the keys to their prime ministers.

Having read the 22nd chapter as above, with some commentary on a verse, I went to the familiar Matthew 16 again. There are various ways to interpret. Here's Ellicott's Commentary on verse 19 --

(19) I will give unto thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven.--Two distinct trains of figurative thought are blended in the words that follow. (1.) The palace of a great king implied the presence of a chief officer, as treasurer or chamberlain, or to use the old Hebrew phrase, as "over the household." And of this, as in the case of Eliakim, the son of Hilkiah (Isaiah 22:22), the key of office, the key of the gates and of the treasure, was the recognised symbol. In the highest sense that key of the house of David belonged to Christ Himself as the King. It was He who opened and none could shut, who shut and none could open (Revelation 3:7). But that power was now delegated to the servant whose very name, as an Apostle, marked him out as his Lord's representative, and the after history of Peter's work, when through him God "opened the door of faith unto the Gentiles" (Acts 14:27; Acts 15:7), was the proof of his faithful discharge of the office thus assigned to him. (2.) With this there was another thought, which in the latter clause of the verse becomes the dominant one. The scribes of Israel were thought of as stewards of the treasures of divine wisdom (Matthew 13:52). When they were admitted to their office they received, as its symbol, the "key of knowledge" (Luke 11:52), which was to admit them to the treasure-chambers of the house of the interpreter, the Beth-Midrash of the Rabbis. For this work the Christ had been training His disciples, and Peter's confession had shown that the training had so far done its work. He was qualified to be a "scribe instructed unto the kingdom of heaven, and to bring forth out of its treasures things new and old" (Matthew 13:52); and now the "key" was given to him as the token of his admission to that office. It made him not a priest (that office lay altogether outside the range of the symbolism), but a teacher and interpreter. The words that follow as to "binding" and "loosing" were the formal confirmation in words of that symbolic act. For they, too, belong to the scribe's office and not the priest's, and express an entirely different thought from that of retaining and forgiving sins. That power was, it is true, afterwards bestowed on Peter and his brother-apostles (see Note on John 20:23), but it is not in question here. As interpreted by the language which was familiar to the Jews (see Lightfoot, Hor. Hebr., on this verse), the words pointed primarily to legislative or interpretative functions, not to the judicial treatment of individual men. The school of Shammai, e.g., bound when it declared this or that act to be a transgression of the Sabbath law, or forbade divorce on any but the one ground of adultery; the school of Hillel loosed when it set men free from the obligations thus imposed. Here, too, the after-work of Peter was an illustration of the meaning of the words. When he resisted the attempt of the Judaisers to "put a yoke upon the neck of the disciples" (Acts 15:10), he was loosing what was also loosed in heaven. When he proclaimed, as in his Epistle, the eternal laws of righteousness, and holiness, and love, he was binding those laws on the conscience of Christendom. It must be remembered, lastly, that the power thus bestowed on him was conferred afterward (Matthew 18:18) on the whole company of the Apostles, or, more probably, on the whole body of the disciples in their collective unity, and there with an implied extension to partially judicial functions (see Note on Matthew 18:18).
....

In Matthew 18:18 this power conferred onto all the apostles due to the connecting words from the start of the chapter, where He is addressing them all, and the continuing wordings in various verses (even till verse 19, with the "again"), so that all the verses 1-19 are connected together as addressing the whole group, where it is clear these instructions are to all of us, not only to one person alone --

1 At that time the disciples came to Jesus and asked, “Who, then, is the greatest in the kingdom of heaven?”

2 He called a little child to him, and placed the child among them. 3 And he said: “Truly I tell you, unless you change and become like little children, you will never enter the kingdom of heaven. 4 Therefore, whoever takes the lowly position of this child is the greatest in the kingdom of heaven. 5 And whoever welcomes one such child in my name welcomes me.

6 “If anyone causes one of these little ones—those who believe in me—to stumble, it would be better for them to have a large millstone hung around their neck and to be drowned in the depths of the sea. 7 Woe to the world because of the things that cause people to stumble! Such things must come, but woe to the person through whom they come! 8 If your hand or your foot causes you to stumble, cut it off and throw it away. It is better for you to enter life maimed or crippled than to have two hands or two feet and be thrown into eternal fire. 9 And if your eye causes you to stumble, gouge it out and throw it away. It is better for you to enter life with one eye than to have two eyes and be thrown into the fire of hell.

The Parable of the Wandering Sheep

10 “See that you do not despise one of these little ones. For I tell you that their angels in heaven always see the face of my Father in heaven. [11] a

12 “What do you think? If a man owns a hundred sheep, and one of them wanders away, will he not leave the ninety-nine on the hills and go to look for the one that wandered off? 13 And if he finds it, truly I tell you, he is happier about that one sheep than about the ninety-nine that did not wander off. 14 In the same way your Father in heaven is not willing that any of these little ones should perish.

Dealing With Sin in the Church

15“If your brother or sister b sins, c go and point out their fault, just between the two of you. If they listen to you, you have won them over. 16 But if they will not listen, take one or two others along, so that ‘every matter may be established by the testimony of two or three witnesses.’ d 17 If they still refuse to listen, tell it to the church; and if they refuse to listen even to the church, treat them as you would a pagan or a tax collector.

18 “Truly I tell you, whatever you bind on earth will be e bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth will be f loosed in heaven.

19 “Again, truly I tell you that if two of you on earth agree about anything they ask for, it will be done for them by my Father in heaven. 20 For where two or three gather in my name, there am I with them.”

LoveGodsWord · Oct 24, 2018

JLB777 said:
There you go again, instead of simply answering my question with a straightforward answer you start your cut a paste of Old Testament scriptures

Please just answer with a simple yes or no answer.

Do you believe it’s a sin to go to Church on Sunday rather than Saturday?

Yes, it’s a sin to go toChurch on Sunday

No, it’s not a sin to go to Church on Sunday

Hello JBL,

I have answered your question already. Why are you only half quoting me. This was what was posted to you and answers your question. (re-post below)

.............

Well that is not true. I have answered your post many times in different places already you must not read the posts and the scriptures provided to you.

Not sure why you think there is a command to assemble for a Church service on the Sabbath. I have posted the 4th Commandment to you several times already. Here let's go through God's 4th Commandment again and show what it says.

GOD'S 4TH COMMANDMENT

EXODUS 20:8-11
[8], REMEMBER, the SABBATH DAY, to KEEP IT HOLY. <Why?> Because God made it Holy for mankind and commands us to keep it as a Holy day)
[9], Six days shalt thou labor, and do all thy work:
[10], But the SEVENTH DAY IS THE SABBATH of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates: <WHY>
[11], For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the SEVENTH DAY: wherefore the LORD BLESSED THE SABBATH, and HALLOWED IT.

Points of fact;
v8 The commandment is to REMEMBER THE SABBATH DAY TO KEEP IT A HOLY DAY
v9-10 NO WORK is to be done on the SEVENTH DAY SABBATH
v10 THIS IS GOD'S SABBATH made for mankind (Mark 2:27-28)
v8;11 THE REASON FOR THE SABBATH IS A MEMORIAL OF CREATION AND THE CREATOR

There is no commandments to gather on the Sabbath. This being said JESUS and the APOSTLES are our examples and they all gathered on the SABBATH *Matthew 12:1-8; 10-12; 24:20; Mark 3:1-5; Luke 6:1-10; 13:14-16; 14:1-5; John 7:22-23; 9:14; Mark 1:21; Mark 6:2; Luke 4:16; 31; Luke 14:1; 23:56; John 2:6; Matthew 16:24; Acts 13:14; 13:27; 13:44; 15:21; 16:13; 17:2; 18:4; Revelation 1:10

*You do not break God's 4th commandment by gathering on any set day you break God's 4th commandment by WORKING on the SEVENTH DAY OF THE WEEK.

................

Please do not say your questions have not been answered when they clearly have been.

JLB777 · Oct 24, 2018

LoveGodsWord said:
Hello JBL,

I have answered your question already. Why are you only half quoting me. This was what was posted to you and answers your question. (re-post below)

.............

Well that is not true. I have answered your post many times in different places already you must not read the posts and the scriptures provided to you.

Not sure why you think there is a command to assemble for a Church service on the Sabbath. I have posted the 4th Commandment to you several times already. Here let's go through God's 4th Commandment again and show what it says.

GOD'S 4TH COMMANDMENT

EXODUS 20:8-11
[8], REMEMBER, the SABBATH DAY, to KEEP IT HOLY. <Why?> Because God made it Holy for mankind and commands us to keep it as a Holy day)
[9], Six days shalt thou labor, and do all thy work:
[10], But the SEVENTH DAY IS THE SABBATH of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates: <WHY>
[11], For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the SEVENTH DAY: wherefore the LORD BLESSED THE SABBATH, and HALLOWED IT.

Points of fact;
v8 The commandment is to REMEMBER THE SABBATH DAY TO KEEP IT A HOLY DAY
v9-10 NO WORK is to be done on the SEVENTH DAY SABBATH
v10 THIS IS GOD'S SABBATH made for mankind (Mark 2:27-28)
v8;11 THE REASON FOR THE SABBATH IS A MEMORIAL OF CREATION AND THE CREATOR

There is no commandments to gather on the Sabbath. This being said JESUS and the APOSTLES are our examples and they all gathered on the SABBATH *Matthew 12:1-8; 10-12; 24:20; Mark 3:1-5; Luke 6:1-10; 13:14-16; 14:1-5; John 7:22-23; 9:14; Mark 1:21; Mark 6:2; Luke 4:16; 31; Luke 14:1; 23:56; John 2:6; Matthew 16:24; Acts 13:14; 13:27; 13:44; 15:21; 16:13; 17:2; 18:4; Revelation 1:10

*You do not break God's 4th commandment by gathering on any set day you break God's 4th commandment by WORKING on the SEVENTH DAY OF THE WEEK.

................

Please do not say your questions have not been answered when they clearly have been.

Nope. No answer in this entire post.

Just another cut and paste.

Do you believe it’s a sin to go to Church on Sunday

Do you believe it’s a sin to work on Saturday?

JLB

Karola · Oct 24, 2018

Halbhh said:
This made me curious, and Titus is from Paul, not Peter, so it's Paul instructing Titus to appoint elders in churches. Also, considering what is in Galatians chapter 2, would that mean you see Paul as being the lead bishop (or 'pope') instead of Peter? My own understanding on this is that the Holy Spirit was sent down onto all of the disciples, not only one, and all are to be servants, not only one. But if there is a lead bishop, then it seems to change at times without the participation of men in the choice making, but instead the choice is made from above, without men determining. It happens to us, instead of from us. I suppose the question here is: how do you account for the reality in Galatians chapter 2 if you think Peter was the pope until he passed on? Another related question: why should we think one bishop is the lead bishop? That does not seem to fit the overall picture in Acts and the epistles. (There is still a Leader, still a head of the Church, Christ our Lord)

James was the leader of the Jerusalem church, so I guess he must have been the first pope in reality

klutedavid · Oct 24, 2018

Hello LGW.

You must read the scripture carefully.

If your saying that God's ten commandments are not for God's people then this is the same as saying that you are now free to lie, steal, kill, commit adultery and have other God's?

A Christian is under the law of Christ, i.e., love.
Love will not kill, love will not steal, e.t.c.

The Sabbath in the law was for the nation of Israel. Any attempt to extend that law to a gentile, is in direct conflict with Acts 15.

LoveGodsWord · Oct 24, 2018

klutedavid said:
Hello LGW.

You must read the scripture carefully.

A Christian is under the law of Christ, i.e., love.
Love will not kill, love will not steal, e.t.c.

The Sabbath in the law was for the nation of Israel. Any attempt to extend that law to a gentile, is in direct conflict with Acts 15.

Hello David,

You cannot separate God's LAW from LOVE as God's LOVE is the very expression and fulfillment of what LOVE it and is why JESUS says "ON THESE TWO COMMANDMENTS (Love to God and Love to man) HANG ALL THE LAW and the prophets *MATTHEW 22:26-40.

Let's have a look at the scriptures...

The two great commandments......

Deuteronomy 6
5, And thou shalt love the LORD thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy might.

Leviticus 19
18, Thou shalt not avenge, nor bear any grudge against the children of thy people, but thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself: I am the LORD.

Did you know Jesus is quoting from the Old Testament scriptures in Matthew 22?

Matthew 22
36, Master, which is the great commandment in the law?
37, Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.
38, This is the first and great commandment.
39, And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbor as thyself.
40,ON THESE TWO COMMANDMENTS HANG ALL THE LAW AND THE PROPHETS.

Did you notice that Jesus says that on the two great commandments hang ALL THE LAW and the prophets?

links to.......

James 2
8, If ye fulfil the royal law according to the scripture,Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself, ye do well:
9, But if ye have respect to persons, ye commit sin, and are convinced of the law as transgressors.
10, For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.
11, For he that said, Do not commit adultery, said also, Do not kill. Now if thou commit no adultery, yet if thou kill, thou art become a transgressor of the law.
12, So speak ye, and so do, as they that shall be judged by the law of liberty.

Now look at what Jamessays he is also quoting the second great commandment ofLOVE thy neighbor and calls it the royal LAW then he continues to link LOVE to OBEDIENCE to God's 10 commandments

links to.........

Romans 13
8, Owe no man anything, but to love one another: for he that loveth another hath fulfilled the law.
9, For this, thou shalt not commit adultery, thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Thou shalt not covet; and if there be any other commandment, it is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely, Thou shalt love thy neighbor as thyself.
10, Love worketh no ill to his neighbor: therefore, love is the fulfilling of the law.

Now notice what Paul says; he is once again linking the second great commandment of LOVE thy neighbor and continues to link LOVE to OBEDIENCE to God's 10 commandments and shows that LOVE is OBEDIENCE (fulfills) to God's LAW the 10 commandment.

links to......

Matthew 19
16, And, behold, one came and said unto him, Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life?
17, And he said unto him, Why call thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God:BUT IF YOU WILL ENTER INTO LIFE KEEP THE COMMANDMENTS.
18, He saith unto him, WHICH? JESUS SAID,THOU SHALT NOT MURDER, THOU SHALT NOT COMMIT ADULTERY, THOU SHALT NOT STEAL, THOU SHALT NOT LIE, HONOR YOU MOTHER AND FATHER AND THOU SHALT LOVE THY NEIGHBOR AS THYSELF
20, The young man saith unto him, All these things have I kept from my youth up: what lack I yet? 21, Jesus said unto him, If thou wilt be perfect, go and sell that thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come and follow me.

Jesus showed him that he may have fulfilled His duty of love to his neighbor but not to God breaking commandment 1 and 2 loving riches more than God

Jesus is quoting the 10 commandments in Matthew 19 and Jesus, James and Paul all agree together that LOVE is OBEDIENCE to God's LAW (10 commandments)

1 John 4
6, We are of God: he that knoweth God heareth us; he that is not of God heareth not us. Hereby know we the spirit of truth, and the spirit of error.
7, Beloved, let us love one another: for love is of God; and everyone that loveth is born of God, and knoweth God.
8, He that loveth not knoweth not God; for GOD IS LOVE

1 John 5
3,For this is the LOVE of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous.

John 14
15,If you LOVE me keep my commandments
Yes seems like James and John and Paul all agree with Jesus that on the two GREAT commandments of LOVE hand all the LAW and the prophets

Hope this helps.

LoveGodsWord · Oct 24, 2018

JLB777 said:
Nope. No answer in this entire post.

Just another cut and paste.

Do you believe it’s a sin to go to Church on Sunday

Do you believe it’s a sin to work on Saturday?

JLB

It is hard to see only what you want to see. Sorry brother I cannot help you if you want to ignore what is written in my post # 764 linked click me. Please tell me how my post did not clealy answer your question?

klutedavid · Oct 24, 2018

LoveGodsWord said:
Hello David,

You cannot separate God's LAW from LOVE as God's LOVE is the very expression and fulfillment of what LOVE it and is why JESUS says "ON THESE TWO COMMANDMENTS (Love to God and Love to man) HANG ALL THE LAW and the prophets *MATTHEW 22:26-40.

Let's have a look at the scriptures...

The two great commandments......

Deuteronomy 6
5, And thou shalt love the LORD thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy might.

Leviticus 19
18, Thou shalt not avenge, nor bear any grudge against the children of thy people, but thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself: I am the LORD.

Did you know Jesus is quoting from the Old Testament scriptures in Matthew 22?

Matthew 22
36, Master, which is the great commandment in the law?
37, Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.
38, This is the first and great commandment.
39, And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbor as thyself.
40,ON THESE TWO COMMANDMENTS HANG ALL THE LAW AND THE PROPHETS.

Did you notice that Jesus says that on the two great commandments hang ALL THE LAW and the prophets?

links to.......

James 2
8, If ye fulfil the royal law according to the scripture,Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself, ye do well:
9, But if ye have respect to persons, ye commit sin, and are convinced of the law as transgressors.
10, For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.
11, For he that said, Do not commit adultery, said also, Do not kill. Now if thou commit no adultery, yet if thou kill, thou art become a transgressor of the law.
12, So speak ye, and so do, as they that shall be judged by the law of liberty.

Now look at what Jamessays he is also quoting the second great commandment ofLOVE thy neighbor and calls it the royal LAW then he continues to link LOVE to OBEDIENCE to God's 10 commandments

links to.........

Romans 13
8, Owe no man anything, but to love one another: for he that loveth another hath fulfilled the law.
9, For this, thou shalt not commit adultery, thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Thou shalt not covet; and if there be any other commandment, it is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely, Thou shalt love thy neighbor as thyself.
10, Love worketh no ill to his neighbor: therefore, love is the fulfilling of the law.

Now notice what Paul says; he is once again linking the second great commandment of LOVE thy neighbor and continues to link LOVE to OBEDIENCE to God's 10 commandments and shows that LOVE is OBEDIENCE (fulfills) to God's LAW the 10 commandment.

links to......

Matthew 19
16, And, behold, one came and said unto him, Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life?
17, And he said unto him, Why call thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God:BUT IF YOU WILL ENTER INTO LIFE KEEP THE COMMANDMENTS.
18, He saith unto him, WHICH? JESUS SAID,THOU SHALT NOT MURDER, THOU SHALT NOT COMMIT ADULTERY, THOU SHALT NOT STEAL, THOU SHALT NOT LIE, HONOR YOU MOTHER AND FATHER AND THOU SHALT LOVE THY NEIGHBOR AS THYSELF
20, The young man saith unto him, All these things have I kept from my youth up: what lack I yet? 21, Jesus said unto him, If thou wilt be perfect, go and sell that thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come and follow me.

Jesus showed him that he may have fulfilled His duty of love to his neighbor but not to God breaking commandment 1 and 2 loving riches more than God

Jesus is quoting the 10 commandments in Matthew 19 and Jesus, James and Paul all agree together that LOVE is OBEDIENCE to God's LAW (10 commandments)

1 John 4
6, We are of God: he that knoweth God heareth us; he that is not of God heareth not us. Hereby know we the spirit of truth, and the spirit of error.
7, Beloved, let us love one another: for love is of God; and everyone that loveth is born of God, and knoweth God.
8, He that loveth not knoweth not God; for GOD IS LOVE

1 John 5
3,For this is the LOVE of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous.

John 14
15,If you LOVE me keep my commandments
Yes seems like James and John and Paul all agree with Jesus that on the two GREAT commandments of LOVE hand all the LAW and the prophets

Hope this helps.

Will you deny that the Sabbath was given by God to the nation of Israel?

LoveGodsWord · Oct 24, 2018

klutedavid said:
Will you deny that the Sabbath was given by God to the nation of Israel?

Under the NEW COVENANT if you are not a part of GOD's ISRAEL you have not part in the NEW COVENANT *HEBREWS 8:10-12. Gentiles are now grafted in to God's ISRAEL *ROMANS 11:16-27. Are you a part of God's ISRAEL David?

klutedavid · Oct 24, 2018

LoveGodsWord said:
Under the NEW COVENANT if you are not a part of GOD's ISRAEL you have not part in the NEW COVENANT *HEBREWS 8:10-12. Gentiles are now grafted in to God's ISRAEL *ROMANS 11:16-27. Are you a part of God's ISRAEL David?

Regardless of your interpretation of the scripture.

Do you deny that the Sabbath commandment was given to the nation of Israel?

LoveGodsWord · Oct 24, 2018

klutedavid said:
Regardless of your interpretation of the scripture.
Do you deny that the Sabbath commandment was given to the nation of Israel?

You did not read the post you were responding to did you David? Here let me re-post the scriptures and repeat the question. Under the NEW COVENANT if you are not a part of GOD's ISRAEL you have not part in the NEW COVENANT *HEBREWS 8:10-12. Gentiles are now grafted in to God's ISRAEL *ROMANS 11:16-27. Are you a part of God's ISRAEL David?

klutedavid · Oct 24, 2018

LoveGodsWord said:
You did not read the post you were responding to did you David? Here let me re-post the scriptures and repeat the question. Under the NEW COVENANT if you are not a part of GOD's ISRAEL you have not part in the NEW COVENANT *HEBREWS 8:10-12. Gentiles are now grafted in to God's ISRAEL *ROMANS 11:16-27. Are you a part of God's ISRAEL David?

You are trying to weld two groups of people together in your post. A person does not need to be a Jew, to be under the new covenant.

Paul accused Peter of do the same thing, Peter was trying to get Gentiles to live like Jews in Galatians.

Gentiles are grafted into Christ, Gentiles are not grafted into the old covenant.

Do you deny that the Sabbath was given to the nation of Israel?

LoveGodsWord · Oct 24, 2018

klutedavid said:
You are trying to weld two groups of people together in your post. A person does not need to be a Jew, to be under the new covenant.

Paul accused Peter of do the same thing, Peter was trying to get Gentiles to live like Jews in Galatians.

Gentiles are grafted into Christ, Gentiles are not grafted into the old covenant.

Do you deny that the Sabbath was given to the nation of Israel?

Not really David, I hope you can understand I am only providing God's WORD. Under the NEW COVENANT if you are not a part of GOD's ISRAEL you have not part in the NEW COVENANT *HEBREWS 8:10-12. Gentiles are now grafted in to God's ISRAEL *ROMANS 11:16-27. Are you a part of God's ISRAEL David?

klutedavid · Oct 24, 2018

LoveGodsWord said:
Hello David,

You cannot separate God's LAW from LOVE as God's LOVE is the very expression and fulfillment of what LOVE it and is why JESUS says "ON THESE TWO COMMANDMENTS (Love to God and Love to man) HANG ALL THE LAW and the prophets *MATTHEW 22:26-40.

Let's have a look at the scriptures...

The two great commandments......

Deuteronomy 6
5, And thou shalt love the LORD thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy might.

Leviticus 19
18, Thou shalt not avenge, nor bear any grudge against the children of thy people, but thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself: I am the LORD.

Did you know Jesus is quoting from the Old Testament scriptures in Matthew 22?

Matthew 22
36, Master, which is the great commandment in the law?
37, Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.
38, This is the first and great commandment.
39, And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbor as thyself.
40,ON THESE TWO COMMANDMENTS HANG ALL THE LAW AND THE PROPHETS.

Did you notice that Jesus says that on the two great commandments hang ALL THE LAW and the prophets?

links to.......

James 2
8, If ye fulfil the royal law according to the scripture,Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself, ye do well:
9, But if ye have respect to persons, ye commit sin, and are convinced of the law as transgressors.
10, For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.
11, For he that said, Do not commit adultery, said also, Do not kill. Now if thou commit no adultery, yet if thou kill, thou art become a transgressor of the law.
12, So speak ye, and so do, as they that shall be judged by the law of liberty.

Now look at what Jamessays he is also quoting the second great commandment ofLOVE thy neighbor and calls it the royal LAW then he continues to link LOVE to OBEDIENCE to God's 10 commandments

links to.........

Romans 13
8, Owe no man anything, but to love one another: for he that loveth another hath fulfilled the law.
9, For this, thou shalt not commit adultery, thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Thou shalt not covet; and if there be any other commandment, it is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely, Thou shalt love thy neighbor as thyself.
10, Love worketh no ill to his neighbor: therefore, love is the fulfilling of the law.

Now notice what Paul says; he is once again linking the second great commandment of LOVE thy neighbor and continues to link LOVE to OBEDIENCE to God's 10 commandments and shows that LOVE is OBEDIENCE (fulfills) to God's LAW the 10 commandment.

links to......

Matthew 19
16, And, behold, one came and said unto him, Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life?
17, And he said unto him, Why call thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God:BUT IF YOU WILL ENTER INTO LIFE KEEP THE COMMANDMENTS.
18, He saith unto him, WHICH? JESUS SAID,THOU SHALT NOT MURDER, THOU SHALT NOT COMMIT ADULTERY, THOU SHALT NOT STEAL, THOU SHALT NOT LIE, HONOR YOU MOTHER AND FATHER AND THOU SHALT LOVE THY NEIGHBOR AS THYSELF
20, The young man saith unto him, All these things have I kept from my youth up: what lack I yet? 21, Jesus said unto him, If thou wilt be perfect, go and sell that thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come and follow me.

Jesus showed him that he may have fulfilled His duty of love to his neighbor but not to God breaking commandment 1 and 2 loving riches more than God

Jesus is quoting the 10 commandments in Matthew 19 and Jesus, James and Paul all agree together that LOVE is OBEDIENCE to God's LAW (10 commandments)

1 John 4
6, We are of God: he that knoweth God heareth us; he that is not of God heareth not us. Hereby know we the spirit of truth, and the spirit of error.
7, Beloved, let us love one another: for love is of God; and everyone that loveth is born of God, and knoweth God.
8, He that loveth not knoweth not God; for GOD IS LOVE

1 John 5
3,For this is the LOVE of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous.

John 14
15,If you LOVE me keep my commandments
Yes seems like James and John and Paul all agree with Jesus that on the two GREAT commandments of LOVE hand all the LAW and the prophets

Hope this helps.

You can save a lot of time and space by just quoting this one line.

10, Love worketh no ill to his neighbor, therefore, love is the fulfilling of the law.

Love fulfills, fulfilled, is the fulfillment of the law.

God is love, is the shortcut to the understanding of the New Testament. You have a new commandment given by Jesus, to love others as God has loved you. Not love others as you love yourself.

JLB777 · Oct 24, 2018

LoveGodsWord said:
It is hard to see only what you want to see. Sorry brother I cannot help you if you want to ignore what is written in my post # 764 linked click me. Please tell me how my post did not clealy answer your question?

I will tell you why your post did not answer my question.

I asked this question.

Do you believe it’s a sin to go to Church on Sunday

Do you believe it’s a sin to work on Saturday?

Your answer did not contain the word yes or no.

Please answer with yes or no.

Here, let me demonstrate for you how to answer my question.

Question: Do you believe it’s a sin to work on Saturday?

Answer: No

Question: Do you believe it’s a sin to go to Church on Sunday rather than Saturday?

Answer: No

JLB

parousia70 · Oct 24, 2018

LoveGodsWord said:
Now notice what Paul says; he is once again linking the second great commandment of LOVE thy neighbor and continues to link LOVE to OBEDIENCE to God's 10 commandments and shows that LOVE is OBEDIENCE (fulfills) to God's LAW the 10 commandment.

At the same time, the Apostles teach plainly that the Mosaic observance of the Jewish Saturday Sabbath was no longer required of people (Col 2:15-17; Acts 15:5-11, 24-29).

The Saturday Sabbath is not erased, but Colossians 2:15-17 explicitly says it was no longer binding once Christ came (as is also true of animal sacrifice, and physical circumcision) :

15 And having disarmed the powers and authorities, he made a public spectacle of them, triumphing over them by the cross.[e]
16 Therefore do not let anyone judge you by what you eat or drink, or with regard to a religious festival, a New Moon celebration or a Sabbath day. 17 These are a shadow of the things that were to come; the reality, however, is found in Christ.

So already in the New Testament era you see the apostles teaching men to shift away from mandatory observances of the Mosaic ceremonial practices (Gal 5:1-6; Acts 15:5-11, 24-29).

If the Apostles of Jesus Christ teach that I am not to let anyone judge me with regard to a Sabbath day, that it was but a mere shadow, and the REAL Sabbath "is found in Christ", I'm inclined to accept their testimony and act appropriately.

LoveGodsWord · Oct 24, 2018

parousia70 said:
At the same time, the Apostles teach plainly that the Mosaic observance of the Jewish Saturday Sabbath was no longer required of people (Col 2:15-17; Acts 15:5-11, 24-29). The Saturday Sabbath is not erased, but Colossians 2:15-17 explicitly says it was no longer binding once Christ came (as is also true of animal sacrifice, and physical circumcision) :
15 And having disarmed the powers and authorities, he made a public spectacle of them, triumphing over them by the cross.[e] 16 Therefore do not let anyone judge you by what you eat or drink, or with regard to a religious festival, a New Moon celebration or a Sabbath day. 17 These are a shadow of the things that were to come; the reality, however, is found in Christ. So already in the New Testament era you see the apostles teaching men to shift away from mandatory observances of the Mosaic ceremonial practices (Gal 5:1-6; Acts 15:5-11, 24-29) If the Apostles of Jesus Christ teach that I am not to let anyone judge me with regard to a Sabbath day, that it was but a mere shadow, and the REAL Sabbath "is found in Christ", I'm inclined to accept their testimony and act appropriately..

Hello brother parousia70, (PART 1/3)

Nice to meet you and thanks for sharing your thoughts however the scriptures you have posted hold no weight to your claims. Let's examine them in detail. Your claim is that God's 4th Commandment is no longer required and as your support scriptures you quote ACTS 15:5-11; 24:29 and COLOSSIANS 2:15-17. Let's examine these scriptures in detail and see if these claims are true or not.

ACTS 15
You need to go back to the CONTEXT of the chapter to understand what ACTS 15 is talking about here to define the topic of conversation that the chapter is trying to address. Let's determine the topic of conversation and the question that the chapter is trying to decide on.

ACTS 15:1:21
[1], And certain men who came down from Judea taught the brethren, and said, Except you be circumcised after the manner of Moses, you cannot be saved.

...........

NOTE: ACTS 15:1 is the question that needs to be answered and the topic of conversation and CONTEXT of the chapter of ACTS 15. Here we have Jewish believers coming to Paul and Barnabas saying if the new GENTILES believers are not circumcised and made proselytes then they cannot be saved. This is the chapter context and issue of contention.

...........

[2], When therefore Paul and Barnabas had no small dissension and dispute with them, they determined that Paul and Barnabas, and certain other of them, should go up to Jerusalem unto the apostles and elders about this question.

...........

NOTE: ACTS 15:2 there was much arguing over the claims of the Jewish believers who are claiming that unless the gentiles are circumcised they cannot be saved. They then determined that Paul and Barnabas must go to Jerusalem to the Apostles and elders ABOUT THIS QUESTION. Which question? Weather your salvation depends on being CIRCUMCISED. They then travelled to Jerusalem about this question to determine if new gentile believers needed to be CIRCUMCISED in order to be saved. Once they got to Jerusalem, the question was then asked and the discussion continued with the Pharasees stating their cas first..

...........

[5], But there rose up certain of the sect of the Pharisees who believed, saying, It is needful to circumcise them, and to command them to keep the law of Moses.

...........

NOTE: KEEP in mind here the question was never over if gentile believers should obey God's 10 Commandments but to keep the Shadow laws of Moses, in this case CIRCUMCISION as a means of salvation. CIRCUMCISION is from the MOSAIC BOOK of the law not God's 10 commandments.

...........

[6], And the apostles and elders came together to consider this matter.

[7], And when there had been much disputing, Peter rose up, and said unto them, Men and brethren, you know how that a good while ago God made choice among us, that the Gentiles by my mouth should hear the word of the gospel, and believe.

[8], And God, who knows the hearts, bore them witness, giving them the Holy Spirit, even as he did unto us;

...........

NOTE: After much discussion between the Apostles, Peter then rose up showing that God gave the gentile believers the Holy Spirit being uncircumcised.

...........

[9], And put no difference between us and them, purifying their hearts by faith.
[10], Now therefore why test God, to put a yoke upon the neck of the disciples, which neither our fathers nor we were able to bear?
[11], But we believe that through the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ we shall be saved, even as they.

...........

NOTE: They came to the conclusion then that salvation is not by being circumcised but be what circumcision pointed to. A new heart by faith. This is made plain latter in other scripture written by PAUL here...

ROMANS 2 [25] For circumcision verily profits, if you keep the law: but if you are a breaker of the law, your circumcision is made uncircumcision. [26], Therefore if the uncircumcision keeps the righteousness of the law, shall not his uncircumcision be counted for circumcision? [27], And shall not uncircumcision which is by nature, if it fulfils the law, judge you, who by the letter and circumcision do transgress the law? [28], FOR HE IS NOT A JEW, WHO IS ONE; NEITHER IS THAT CIRCUMCISION, WHICH IS OF THE OUTWARD FLESH: [29], BUT HE IS A JEW WHICH IS ONE INWARDLY; AND CIRCUMCISION IS THAT OF THE HEART, IN THE SPIRIT AND NOT IN THE LETTER; WHOSE PRAISE IS NOT OF MEN BUT OF GOD.

If ACTS 15 was talking about the 10 Commandments then Pauls writings in to the CORITHIANS do not make any sense.

1 CORITHIANS 7 [19] CIRCUMCISION IS NOTHING, AND UNCIRCUMCISION IS NOTHING, BUT THE KEEPING OF THE COMMANDMENTS OF GOD.

The scripture above is a contradiction of how some interpret the outcome of ACTS 15

You do not believe brother parousia70, that we are now free to break any of God's 10 Commandments now do you? I am sure you do not. God's WORD does not teach lawlessness.

...........

[12], Then all the multitude kept silence, and listened to Barnabas and Paul declaring what miracles and wonders God had done among the Gentiles by them.
[13], And after they had held their peace, James answered, saying, Men and brethren, hearken unto me:
[14], Simeon has declared how God at the first did visit the Gentiles, to take out of them a people for his name.
[15], And to this agree the words of the prophets; as it is written,
[16], After this I will return, and will build again the tabernacle of David, which is fallen down; and I will build again the ruins thereof, and I will set it up:
[17], That the rest of men might seek after the Lord, and all the Gentiles, upon whom my name is called, says the Lord, who does all these things.
[18], Known unto God are all his works from the beginning of the world.

[19], Therefore my judgment is, that we trouble not them, who from among the Gentiles are turned to God:
[20], But that we write unto them, that they abstain from defilements of idols, and from fornication, and from things strangled, and from blood.
[21], For Moses of old time has in every city them that preach him, being read in the synagogues every sabbath day.

[23], And they wrote letters by them after this manner; The apostles and elders and brethren send greetings unto the brethren who are of the Gentiles in Antioch and Syria and Cilicia:
[24], Since we have heard that certain who went out from us have troubled you with words, unsettling your souls, saying, You must be circumcised, and keep the law: to whom we gave no such commandment:
[25], It seemed good unto us, being assembled with one accord, to send chosen men unto you with our beloved Barnabas and Paul,
[26], Men that have hazarded their lives for the name of our Lord Jesus Christ.
[27], We have sent therefore Judas and Silas, who shall also tell you the same things by mouth.
[28], For it seemed good to the Holy Spirit, and to us, to lay upon you no greater burden than these necessary things;
[29], That you abstain from anything offered to idols, and from blood, and from things strangled, and from fornication: from which if you keep yourselves, you shall do well. Farewell.

.................

CONCLUSION So the conclusion of the matter. v19-20 We are not to trouble the new gentile believers with CIRCUMCISION as a means of salvation. They are new converts they will learn more about God as Moses is preached when? EVERY SABBATH. In the meantime you should abstain from anything offered to idols, and from blood, and from things strangled, and from fornication.

NOPE nothing written about the 10 Commandments in this chapter. Here is what PAUL says of the matter here...

1 CORITHIANS 7 [19] CIRCUMCISION IS NOTHING, AND UNCIRCUMCISION IS NOTHING, BUT THE KEEPING OF THE COMMANDMENTS OF GOD.

Yep you may need to revisit your thinking of ACTS 15. CIRCUMCISION is not the 10 Commandments. It is from the Shadow laws of the MOSAIC BOOK of the COVENANT.

Hope this helps

Will look at COL 2 with you shortly....

LoveGodsWord · Oct 24, 2018

parousia70 said:
The Saturday Sabbath is not erased, but Colossians 2:15-17 explicitly says it was no longer binding once Christ came (as is also true of animal sacrifice, and physical circumcision) : 15 And having disarmed the powers and authorities, he made a public spectacle of them, triumphing over them by the cross.[e] 16 Therefore do not let anyone judge you by what you eat or drink, or with regard to a religious festival, a New Moon celebration or a Sabbath day. 17 These are a shadow of the things that were to come; the reality, however, is found in Christ. So already in the New Testament era you see the apostles teaching men to shift away from mandatory observances of the Mosaic ceremonial practices (Gal 5:1-6; Acts 15:5-11, 24-29) If the Apostles of Jesus Christ teach that I am not to let anyone judge me with regard to a Sabbath day, that it was but a mere shadow, and the REAL Sabbath "is found in Christ", I'm inclined to accept their testimony and act appropriately..

PART 2/3

Here brother you are getting your shadow laws from the MOSAIC BOOK OF THE COVENANT *EXODUS 24:7 mixed up with God's eternal law that give us the KNOWLEDGE OF GOOD and EVIL; SIN and RIGHTEOUSNESS *ROMANS 3:20; ROMANS 7:7; JAMES 2:10-11; 1 JOHN 3:4; PSALMS 119:172. Let's have a look at the within scripture and chapter context of COLOSSIANS 2 and see what it is talking about.

COL 2:11-17 CHAPTER CONTEXT

11, In whom also you are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ:
12, Buried with him in baptism, in which also you are risen with him through the faith of the working of God, who has raised him from the dead.
13, And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, has he made alive together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses;
14, Blotting out the HANDWRITING of ORDINANCES that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;
15, And having spoiled principalities and powers, he made a show of them openly, triumphing over them in it.
16, Let no man therefore judge you in food, or in drink, or in respect of a holy day, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:
17, Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ.

...........

CHAPTER CONTEXT OF COL 2:14 AND SUBJECT MATTER (COL 2:11-17)

V11. Shadows of the CEREMONIAL ORDINANCE of CIRCUMCISION pointing to CIRCUMCISION of the HEART MADE WITHOUT HANDS by the CIRCUMCISION of Christ.

Foretold in the OLD TESTAMENT….

DEUTERONOMY 10 [16] Circumcise therefore THE FORESKIN OF YOUR HEART, and be no more stiff-necked.

DEUTERONOMY 30 [6] And the LORD your God will CIRCUMCISE YOUR HEART AND THE HEART OF YOUR DECENDENCE, TO LOVE THE LORD YOUR GOD WITH ALL YOUR HEART AND WITHYOU’RE YOUR SOUL, THAT YOU MAY LIVE.

JEREMIAH 4 [4] CIRCUMCISE YOURSELF TO THE LORD, AND TAKE AWAY THE FORESKINS OF YOUR HEART, you men of Judah and inhabitants of Jerusalem: lest my fury come forth like fire, and burn that none can quench it, because of the evil of your doings.

NEW COVENANT FULFILLMENT of the SHADOWS of the CEREMONIAL ORDINANCE of CIRCUMCISION pointing the CIRCUMCISION of the HEART through faith in Christ…

ROMANS 2 [25] For circumcision verily profits, if you keep the law: but if you are a breaker of the law, your circumcision is made uncircumcision. [26], Therefore if the uncircumcision keeps the righteousness of the law, shall not his uncircumcision be counted for circumcision? [27], And shall not uncircumcision which is by nature, if it fulfils the law, judge you, who by the letter and circumcision do transgress the law? [28], FOR HE IS NOT A JEW, WHO IS ONE; NEITHER IS THAT CIRCUMCISION, WHICH IS OF THE OUTWARD FLESH: [29], BUT HE IS A JEW WHICH IS ONE INWARDLY; AND CIRCUMCISION IS THAT OF THE HEART, IN THE SPIRIT AND NOT IN THE LETTER; WHOSE PRAISE IS NOT OF MEN BUT OF GOD.

1 CORITHIANS 7 [19] CIRCUMCISION IS NOTHING, AND UNCIRCUMCISION IS NOTHING, BUT THE KEEPING OF THE COMMANDMENTS OF GOD.

This is the operation of GOD in the NEW COVENANT…

HEBREWS 8 [10], For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, says the Lord; I WILL PUT MY LAWS INTO THEIR MINDS, AND WRITE THEM IN THEIR HEARTS: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:

CONCLUSION; The CEREMONIAL ORDINANCE of CIRCUMCISION is a Shadow law from the MOSAIC BOOK of the COVENANT pointing to a NEW HEART to LOVE and OBEY GOD in the NEW COVENANT

The SHADOW laws of the CEREMONIAL ORDINANCES of CIRCUMCISION from the Mosaic BOOK of the Covenant are the within CHAPTER CONTEXT BEFORE COL 2:14

……………………………

COL 2:14 SCRIPTURE SUBJECT MATTER AND CONTENT.

14, Blotting out the HANDWRITING of ORDINANCES that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;

GREEK WORD MEANINGS AND WORD USE

14, “BLOTTING OUT” < G1813 ἐξαλείφωexaleipho (ex-a-lei'-fō) v. means to rub out, i.e. obliterate, erase>the “HANDWRITING” < G5498 χειρόγραφονcheirographon (chei-ro'-gra-fon) n. means something hand-written (“chirograph”), a manuscript specially, a legal document > of “ORDINANCES” < G1378 δόγμαdogma (d̮og'-ma) n. means; ORDINANCE; CIVIL, CEREMONIAL or ECCLESIASTICAL laws>that was against us, WHICH WERE AGAINST , and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;

The GREEK WORD meanings here in this scripture show that it follows the same CONTEXT of v11-13 in relation to the CEREMONIAL ORDINANCES found in the MOSAIC BOOK of the COVENANT.

V14 Blotting out or erasing the legal MANUSCRIPT or document of ORDINANCES referred to here are those of the CEREMONIAL ORDINANCES from the MOSAIC BOOK of the COVENANT.
The GREEK word for ORDIANACE is DOGMA meaning THE CIVIL, CEREMONIAL and ECCLESIASTICAL ORDINANCES once again only found in the MOSAIC BOOK of the Covenant

This scripture cannot be referring to the abolishing of the 10 commandments of God’s LAW as God’s 10 Commandments are not ORDINANCES and they are not written in a MANUSCRIPT they are written on two tables of stone (Exodus 31:18). Also the chapter CONTEXT is in reference to the CEREMONIAL ORDINANCES of CIRCUMCISION once again from the MOSAIC BOOK of the OLD COVENANT. These were all SHADOWS ALONG WITH THE ORDINANCES OF v17 pointing to Christ and the plan of SALVATION.

ORDINANCES that were against us is referring to the also referring to the PENALTY of SIN (breaking God’s Commandments and the ORDINANCES of curses written once again in the MOSAIC BOOK of the Covenant.

DEUTERONOMY 31:26 [26] Take this Book of the Law, and put it in the side of the ark of the covenant of the LORD your God, that it may be there FOR A WITNESS AGAINST THEE.

DEUTERONOMY 30:19 [19] For GOD has said, I call heaven and earth to record this day against you, that I have set before you life and death, BLESSINGS AND CURSES: therefore choose life, that both thou and thy seed may live: [20] That thou mayest love the Lord thy God, and that thou mayest OBEY his voice, and that thou mayest cleave unto him: for he is thy life, and the length of thy days: that thou mayest dwell in the land which the LORD swore unto thy fathers, to Abraham, to Isaac, and to Jacob, to give them.

(See the list of ORDINACES for curses of breaking Gods’ Law in DEUTERONOMY 28:15-68)

............

CONCLUSION; COL 2:14 is talking about the CEREMONIAL ORDINANCES written in the MOSIAC BOOK of the Covenant which are SHADOW laws pointing to Jesus and God’s plan of SALVATION. This is supported also by the within CHAPTER CONTEXT and SUBJECT matter of v16 which are all CEREMONIAL ORDINANCES written in the MOCAIC BOOK of the COVENANT and not referring to ABOLISHING God’s 10 Commandments.

Part 3 coming...

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