Sabbath day saturday or sunday?

GingerBeer said:

It's the time of year for threads opposing Christmas and other allegedly "pagan" holidays.

The first day of the week is every bit as God given as the seventh day. Why this kind of thing becomes a matter for debate is perplexing. No day is a pagan day, God didn't create any pagans nor any special pagan days.

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Because humans, even Christians, are compelled to think superficially and in terms of flesh. Not worshipping in spirit and truth. Our own sinful nature compels us to sometimes think like Satan.. poking and prodding and ACCUSING.. each other and even ourselves. This is one part of the curse of the knowledge of Good and Evil. To see shame and nakedness even when there is none (which makes it not very reliable "knowledge" at all). We have to remind ourselves that God isn't the petty and petulant one: Satan is!!! God knows it's the "thought that counts", even if you get some dates or details wrong. Only Satan would ACCUSE and inflict guilt over it. Especially over celebrating something like Christ's birth.

Paul's admonition needs to be repeated here:

1Him that is weak in the faith receive ye, but not to doubtful disputations. 2For one believeth that he may eat all things: another, who is weak, eateth herbs. 3Let not him that eateth despise him that eateth not; and let not him which eateth not judge him that eateth: for God hath received him. 4Who art thou that judgest another man's servant? to his own master he standeth or falleth. Yea, he shall be holden up: for God is able to make him stand.

5One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day alike. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind. 6He that regardeth the day, regardeth it unto the Lord; and he that regardeth not the day, to the Lord he doth not regard it. He that eateth, eateth to the Lord, for he giveth God thanks; and he that eateth not, to the Lord he eateth not, and giveth God thanks. 7For none of us liveth to himself, and no man dieth to himself. 8For whether we live, we live unto the Lord; and whether we die, we die unto the Lord: whether we live therefore, or die, we are the Lord's. 9For to this end Christ both died, and rose, and revived, that he might be Lord both of the dead and living. - Rom 14:1-7

curious mike said:

Hey guys, I just read an interesting article here:

Who Changed The Sabbath to Sunday?

The summary of it is that it was the Romans who changed it from Saturday to Sunday so:

What will you believe? Whom will you follow? The God of your Bible—or the traditions of men?

How do you guys see this issue please?

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Only man and American tradition says your Saturday has to be for pleasure. I see it that the Sabbath (Saturday the 7th day) was made for men since God does not need rest, but he knew that His creation would and set the example against the men He knew would be greedy. That we have Church services on Sunday, the FIRST day of the week we don't deny, but that means the pastor and deacons have to "work" in order to fulfill his purpose - so we would be violating the Law, right? That the Sabbath is Saturday, which it is, then it is incumbent on you to rest on the 7th day (Saturday) and keep it holy, but then attend services on the 1st day. And since the pastor and deacons and laymen are "working" so that we listen to sermons and sing in praise to God, if we kept Saturday the Sabbath holy, that has no bearing on preaching and lessons on Sunday. That is also why I don't mind going to lunch after church services. Again, only man and tradition says your Saturday has to be for pleasure. That you work 5 days is another American tradition. We could get the same amount of work done in 4 days and have 3 personal days. One our pleasure, one the Sabbath, and one in services. No law says different except the law of enslavement by the work week.

Dave-W said:

He was transported in the Spirit to the day of judgement.

Just read the book.

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His worship in the Spirit on the Lord's Day was interrupted by the revelation.
There is nothing about "the Day of the Lord" in the first chapter.
Just read the book.

Revelation 1:9-12
I, John, your brother and companion in the suffering and kingdom and patient endurance that are ours in Jesus, was on the island of Patmos because of the word of God and the testimony of Jesus. 10 On the Lord’s Day I was in the Spirit, and I heard behind me a loud voice like a trumpet, 11 which said: “Write on a scroll what you see and send it to the seven churches: to Ephesus, Smyrna, Pergamum, Thyatira, Sardis, Philadelphia and Laodicea.” 12 I turned around to see the voice that was speaking to me. And when I turned I saw seven golden lampstands,

Saint Steven said:

His worship in the Spirit on the Lord's Day was interrupted by the revelation.
There is nothing about "the Day of the Lord" in the first chapter.
Just read the book.

Revelation 1:9-12
I, John, your brother and companion in the suffering and kingdom and patient endurance that are ours in Jesus, was on the island of Patmos because of the word of God and the testimony of Jesus. 10 On the Lord’s Day I was in the Spirit, and I heard behind me a loud voice like a trumpet, 11 which said: “Write on a scroll what you see and send it to the seven churches: to Ephesus, Smyrna, Pergamum, Thyatira, Sardis, Philadelphia and Laodicea.” 12 I turned around to see the voice that was speaking to me. And when I turned I saw seven golden lampstands,

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Not really Steve, there is not one scripture in all of God's WORD that says that the "LORD'S DAY" is SUNDAY or the first day of the week. Yet we have scripture saying that the "LORD'S DAY" is the Sabbath day.

Now let's look at the scriptures that give the answer to our question

Q. WHAT DAY IS THE "LORD'S DAY" ACCORDING TO SCRIPTURE?
A. MATTHEW 12:8 [8], For the Son of man is Lord even of the sabbath day.

Which day is the Lord's Day? THE SABBATH DAY (MATTHEW 12:8; MARK 2:27-28)

God's WORD says that the SABBATH DAY IS THE LORD'S DAY!

There is NO scripture that says Sunday or the FIRST DAY of the week is the Lords Day. God's Word says the Lord's day is the Sabbath day. This is the day God rested on, he set apart and made a Holy day at the completion of the creation week and made a memorial for all mankind (Genesis 2:1-3; Exodus 20:8-11). Jesus is the God of creation and he is the Lord of the Sabbath day (Matthew 12:8; Mark 2:27-28)

.............

Now friend's the SABBATH is the 4th Commandment of God's 10 Commandments and there is not one scripture in ALL of God's WORD that says that God's 4th Commandment has been ABOLISHED and we are now commanded to keep SUNDAY as a HOLY DAY. The same as there is not one scripture in ALL of God's WORD that says that SUNDAY is the LORD'S DAY.

John in the book of REVELATIONS 1:10 was in the SPIRIT on the SABBATH DAY not SUNDAY!

HOW WAS THE LORD'S DAY CHANGED TO SUNDAY?

SUNDAY Worship is a teaching and tradition of men handed down by the Roman Catholic Church that has lead many to break and ignore God's 4th Commandment (Exodus 20:8-11)


Hope this helps.

curious mike said:

Hey guys, I just read an interesting article here:

Who Changed The Sabbath to Sunday?

The summary of it is that it was the Romans who changed it from Saturday to Sunday so:

What will you believe? Whom will you follow? The God of your Bible—or the traditions of men?

How do you guys see this issue please?

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The writings of the early church happened in the same timeframe as the canonized NT writings. What do those writings indicate about the NT church of the day? Most people assume that those writings were post-NT. That they were written after the New testament was "closed". Which is a complete misunderstanding of the order of events.

One example is the Didache, also known as The Teaching of the Twelve Apostles. Dated at 50-120 AD. Here is a sampling of the text about the day of worship. (I think the subheading is a modern addition)

Chapter 14. Christian Assembly on the Lord's Day.
But every Lord's day gather yourselves together, and break bread, and give thanksgiving after having confessed your transgressions, that your sacrifice may be pure. But let no one who is at odds with his fellow come together with you, until they be reconciled, that your sacrifice may not be profaned. For this is that which was spoken by the Lord: "In every place and time offer to me a pure sacrifice; for I am a great King, says the Lord, and my name is wonderful among the nations."

Here is the historical evidence concerning the Lord's Day. (Sunday)

50 AD-120 - DIDACHE: But every Lord's day gather yourselves together... (Chapter 14)

95 AD - THE APOSTLE JOHN: On the Lord’s Day I was in the Spirit, and I heard behind me a loud voice like a trumpet, (Revelation 1:10)

107 AD - IGNATIUS: let every friend of Christ keep the Lord's Day as a festival, the resurrection-day, the queen and chief of all the days of the week. (Ignatius, Epistle to the Magnesians, chp 9. Ante-Nicene Fathers , vol. 1, pg. 62-63.)

130 AD - BARNABAS: Wherefore we Christians keep the eighth day for joy, on which also Jesus arose from the dead and when he appeared ascended into heaven. (15:8f, The Epistle of Barnabas, 100 AD, Ante-Nicene Fathers , vol. 1, pg. 147)

150 AD - JUSTIN: But Sunday is the day on which we hold our common assembly, because it is the first day of the week and Jesus our saviour on the same day rose from the dead. (First apology of Justin, Ch 68)

150 AD - JUSTIN: And on the day called Sunday there is a gathering together in the same place of all who live in a city or a rural district. ... We all make our assembly in common on the day of the Sun, since it is the first day, on which God changed the darkness and matter and made the world, and Jesus Christ our Savior arose from the dead on the same day. For they crucified him on the day before Saturn's day, and on the day after (which is the day of the Sun the appeared to his apostles and taught his disciples these things. (Apology, 1, 67:1-3, 7; First Apology, 145 AD, Ante-Nicene Fathers , Vol. 1, pg. 186)

190 AD - CLEMENT OF ALEXANDRIA: He does the commandment according to the Gospel and keeps the Lord's day, whenever he puts away an evil mind . . . glorifying the Lord's resurrection in himself. (Vii.xii.76.4)

Saint Steven said:

Here is the historical evidence concerning the Lord's Day. (Sunday)

50 AD-120 - DIDACHE: But every Lord's day gather yourselves together... (Chapter 14)

95 AD - THE APOSTLE JOHN: On the Lord’s Day I was in the Spirit, and I heard behind me a loud voice like a trumpet, (Revelation 1:10)

107 AD - IGNATIUS: let every friend of Christ keep the Lord's Day as a festival, the resurrection-day, the queen and chief of all the days of the week. (Ignatius, Epistle to the Magnesians, chp 9. Ante-Nicene Fathers , vol. 1, pg. 62-63.)

130 AD - BARNABAS: Wherefore we Christians keep the eighth day for joy, on which also Jesus arose from the dead and when he appeared ascended into heaven. (15:8f, The Epistle of Barnabas, 100 AD, Ante-Nicene Fathers , vol. 1, pg. 147)

150 AD - JUSTIN: But Sunday is the day on which we hold our common assembly, because it is the first day of the week and Jesus our saviour on the same day rose from the dead. (First apology of Justin, Ch 68)

150 AD - JUSTIN: And on the day called Sunday there is a gathering together in the same place of all who live in a city or a rural district. ... We all make our assembly in common on the day of the Sun, since it is the first day, on which God changed the darkness and matter and made the world, and Jesus Christ our Savior arose from the dead on the same day. For they crucified him on the day before Saturn's day, and on the day after (which is the day of the Sun the appeared to his apostles and taught his disciples these things. (Apology, 1, 67:1-3, 7; First Apology, 145 AD, Ante-Nicene Fathers , Vol. 1, pg. 186)

190 AD - CLEMENT OF ALEXANDRIA: He does the commandment according to the Gospel and keeps the Lord's day, whenever he puts away an evil mind . . . glorifying the Lord's resurrection in himself. (Vii.xii.76.4)

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So I was right you have NO SCRIPTURE to show that REVELATIONS 1:10 is in reference to SUNDAY. Doesn't that worry you especially considering that God's 4th Commandment is one of the 10 commandments that give us the knowledge of sin when broken?

Saint Steven said:

One example is the Didache, also known as The Teaching of the Twelve Apostles. Dated at 50-120 AD. Here is a sampling of the text about the day of worship. (I think the subheading is a modern addition)

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In the opening of the Didache it is clearly stated it is for GENTILE followers of Jesus - and NOT the Jewish followers.

curious mike said:

Hey guys, I just read an interesting article here:

Who Changed The Sabbath to Sunday?

The summary of it is that it was the Romans who changed it from Saturday to Sunday so:

What will you believe? Whom will you follow? The God of your Bible—or the traditions of men?

How do you guys see this issue please?

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Jesus said He is the Lord of the Sabbath (Mark 2:28) so you’re gonna have to take it up with the manager.

.

Dave-W said:

In the opening of the Didache it is clearly stated it is for GENTILE followers of Jesus - and NOT the Jewish followers.

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Therefore the Jewish believers were following Judaism and the gentile believers were following Christianity. Thanks.

LoveGodsWord said:

I see and I have only posted God's WORD alone while you post no scripture and writings from the Roman Catholic Church? Who should we believe God or you?

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My historical quotes, which include the NT, are from the first and second century. When are you claiming that the Roman Catholic Church was founded?

Saint Steven said:

My historical quotes, which include the NT, are from the first and second century. When are claiming that the Roman Catholic Church was founded?

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All you have provided is references from the Roman Catholic Church. You have not provided a single scripture. On the other hand you have been provided God's WORD yet you choose your references over the Word of God does that not bother you?

HISTORY OF THE ROMAN CATHOLIC CHURCH Click me WIKI.

Hope this helps

LoveGodsWord said:

The scripture and chapter context determine the subject matter.

What laws are these scriptures talking about?

ROMANS 13:8-10
[8], Owe no man anything, but to LOVE ONE ANOTHER: for HE THAT LOVES ANOTHER HAS FULFILLED THE LAW.
[9], For this, THOU SHALT NOT COMMIT ADULTERY, THOU SHALT NOT KILL, THOU SHALT NOT STEAL, THOU SHALT NOT LIE, THOU SHALT NOT COVET; and IF THERE SHALL BE ANY OTHER COMMANDMENT, it is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely, THOU SHALT LOVE THY NEIGHBOR AS THYSELF.
[10], Love works no ill to his neighbor: therefore LOVE IS THE FULFILLING OF THE LAW.

Here is another what laws are we talking about here?

JAMES 2:8-11
[8], If ye fulfill the royal law according to the scripture, THOU SHALT LOVE THY NEIGHBOR AS THYSELF, ye do well:
[9], But if ye have respect to persons, ye commit sin, and are convinced of the law as transgressors.
[10], FOR WHOSOEVER SHALL KEEP THE WHOLE LAW AND YET OFFEND IN ONE POINT, HE SHALL BE GUILTY OF ALL.
[11], FOR HE THAT SAID, DO NOT COMMIT ADULTERY SAID ALSO DO NOT KILL. NOW IF YOU DO NOT COMMIT ADULTERY AND YOU KILL, YOU HAVE BECOME A TRANSGRESSOR OF GOD'S LAW.
[12], So speak ye, and so do, as they that shall be judged by the law of liberty.

What law is PAUL talking about here...

ROMANS 7:7 What shall we say then? is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, you shall not covet.

Yep pretty clear brother that the NEW COVENANT is talking about God's 10 Commandments here as they are mentioned by name.

Hope this helps.

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Thanks for proving my point. The law, the law, the law, the law... nothing about the Ten Commandments alone giving us the knowledge of sin. The law is a singular thing. You are either under it by choice, as you are, or you are not under it. As I am not.

1 Corinthians 9:20-22
To the Jews I became like a Jew, to win the Jews. To those under the law I became like one under the law (though I myself am not under the law), so as to win those under the law. 21 To those not having the law I became like one not having the law (though I am not free from God’s law but am under Christ’s law), so as to win those not having the law. 22 To the weak I became weak, to win the weak. I have become all things to all people so that by all possible means I might save some.

LoveGodsWord said:

All you have provided is references from the Roman Catholic Church. You have not provided a single scripture. On the other hand you have been provided God's WORD yet you choose your references over the Word of God does that not bother you?

HISTORY OF THE ROMAN CATHOLIC CHURCH Click me WIKI.

Hope this helps

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Answer the question.
My historical quotes, which include the NT, are from the first and second century. When are claiming that the Roman Catholic Church was founded?

Saint Steven said:

Answer the question.
My historical quotes, which include the NT, are from the first and second century. When are claiming that the Roman Catholic Church was founded?

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I answered your question. Click on the link in the post you have quoted from. Maybe you did not see it?

HISTORY OF THE ROMAN CATHOLIC CHURCH Click me WIKI.

Yep earlier then your references as is the scriptures that were provided to you where you have provided none.

Saint Steven said:

Thanks for proving my point. The law, the law, the law, the law... nothing about the Ten Commandments alone giving us the knowledge of sin. The law is a singular thing. You are either under it by choice, as you are, or you are not under it. As I am not.

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Actually nope that post did not prove your point at all. All the scriptures provided in that post dispute your claims that God's 10 commandments are not mentioned in the NEW TESTAMENT. *ROMANS 7:7; ROMANS 13:8-10; MATTHEW 5:17-32; JAMES 2:8-11. etc etc.

Hope this helps

prodromos said:

Days of the week in Greek were originally named after gods, much like they still are in English, but Christianity had such a huge impact on Greek culture that they changed the names as follows;

Saturday - Savvato (Sabbath)​

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I had always thought that Saturday was named for the god, Saturn.

curious mike said:

Hey guys, I just read an interesting article here:

Who Changed The Sabbath to Sunday?

The summary of it is that it was the Romans who changed it from Saturday to Sunday so:

What will you believe? Whom will you follow? The God of your Bible—or the traditions of men?

How do you guys see this issue please?

Click to expand...

First of all, I want to stress that each reading this do as they are convicted and not as others influence them to do.

There is little to no doubt that messiah kept the Sabbath on the 7th day. The reason I can state this with confidence is that messiah did not sin, and sin is breaking God's law, His commandments (1 John 3:4). So whether or not you believe he nailed the law to the cross, or just our pronouncement of guilt... that would still be at his death, not before.

So we know he and all practicing Jews plus his followers kept the Sabbath on the 7th day. The change did not come by the order of Constantine, it happened long before then. Here is what happened...

There is a Jewish tradition to fast on the 14th of Nisan (the day the lambs are being sacrificed) and break it at sundown on the 14th, which is the beginning of the 15th, the first evening of Unleavened Bread which was when those lambs would have been eaten.

James, the brother of messiah, did not break his fast at that time, instead, he continued on until morning of first fruits, which is when messiah died. It is also on what we call, Sunday. Some of the Hellenized Jewish believers (Greek influenced Jewish believers) took James' action and the fact that messiah rose on a Sunday and set it aside as a day of observance. We are not sure if they replaced the Sabbath but they did set the day aside each week as if it were a Sabbath.

This was a extreme minority practice. The vast majority of Jewish believers continued to keep the Sabbath on the 7th day until after the destruction of the Temple (70AD) and through the Bar Khkokba Revolt of 134AD. It was then, when a military general was given a messianic title by a rabbi to rally the troops, that the remaining Jewish believers, who hadn't fled after the destruction of the Temple (many did flee) did leave and within 20 years (by 150AD) the face of Christianity was more Greek than Jewish.

Being Greek, and being a people who had already set apart Sunday as part of their Mithras observance (Mithra was the Iranian god of light that was worshiped by pagan Rome through the sun) they identified with those Hellenized Jews who had spiritualized the meaning of Sunday 100 years before, and began to also keep Sunday as the day of the son rather than the day of the sun.

By the time of Constantine and him making Sunday worship a decree... it had been the common practice and the majority practice for about 150 years.

What do we do? We, as a family, keep the 7th day as messiah did. Again, keep whatever day you feel led to but KEEP the day.... set it aside, make it special, different than the other days!

tz620q said:

​

I had always thought that Saturday was named for the god, Saturn.

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It is... all the days of the week are named after pagan gods and idols. The Hebrews called the days by the numbers (i.e. day 1, day 2, day 3, etc.) and called the 7th day by it's name, Shabbat (Sabbath). That said, in our culture those pagan gods and idols are unknown, and the use of those names has no tie to those gods and idols any longer. They simply denote what day of the week it is.