Just a Question About Jonah

Paidiske

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When I studied Jonah, I was told/read that Jewish scholars considered it not to be historical, but to be a story which more properly ought to be treated as wisdom literature or the like. This discussion here suggests that members here consider it historical (ie. there was a real Jonah who really went to Nineveh). Is that the case?
 
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Heber Book List

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Who among the Jews wouldn't have known that psalm?

I reckon those who turned out, non-Jews, just to see what all the fuss was about with this man, or those with a macabre sense, and turned out just to see the spectacle. The friends and relatives of the two thieves who may not be Jews etc etc. ?
 
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chunkofcoal

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I reckon those who turned out, non-Jews, just to see what all the fuss was about with this man, or those with a macabre sense, and turned out just to see the spectacle. The friends and relatives of the two thieves who may not be Jews etc etc. ?
But how would they have known anything about Elijah?
But, obviously you don't agree with my post, and I don't want to go round and round about it so...
Have a nice day, HBL. :)
 
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Heber Book List

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When I studied Jonah, I was told/read that Jewish scholars considered it not to be historical, but to be a story which more properly ought to be treated as wisdom literature or the like. This discussion here suggests that members here consider it historical (ie. there was a real Jonah who really went to Nineveh). Is that the case?


He's one of the Twelve prophets, and the book is read at Yom Kippur afternoon service.
 
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Heber Book List

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But how would they would've known anything about Elijah?
But, obviously you don't agree with my post, and I don't want to go round and round about it so...
Have a nice day, HBL. :)

OK. But I'll give you the answer as you've asked the question.

Elijah was a well known historical figure.

Many people did not know what Yeshua looked like (Isaiah 53). Even the High Priests didn't know him - they paid Judas to have him pointed out. At the crucifixion he was up against another man, and they set bar Abba free. At the crucifixion there were many who didn't know him, or they would have been seen mourning him.

Have a great day!
 
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Lulav

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When I studied Jonah, I was told/read that Jewish scholars considered it not to be historical, but to be a story which more properly ought to be treated as wisdom literature or the like. This discussion here suggests that members here consider it historical (ie. there was a real Jonah who really went to Nineveh). Is that the case?

I consider it historical, as Heber pointed out it is the scroll read on Yom Kippurim. That is because it deals with repentance. And for Gentiles it should be a book that is viewed as historical as the theme is that G-d does ask Gentiles to repent (and not from fish slapping) and to turn to him and he will hold off judgement on them.

There are varying views in Judaism, and they can't all be lumped together. But I do know of one Jew who believes it is historical and even used it as an example of one of his prophetic prophecies.

Jesus replied, “A wicked and adulterous generation demands a sign, but none will be given it except the sign of the prophet Jonah.
40 For just as Jonah was three days and three nights in the belly of the great fish, so the Son of Man will be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth.
41 The men of Nineveh will stand at the judgment with this generation and condemn it; for they repented at the preaching of Jonah, and now One greater than Jonah is here.…

Sounds to me like he speaks of it as not only historical but the truth. ;)
 
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Lulav

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I reckon those who turned out, non-Jews, just to see what all the fuss was about with this man, or those with a macabre sense, and turned out just to see the spectacle. The friends and relatives of the two thieves who may not be Jews etc etc. ?
Given the circumstances, it being Passover and all, the only non Jews who would be there would probably be the Romans it was rather overcrowded with Jews being present for the Passover week. And hanging three men was nothing back in that day when the Romans could crucify thousands in one day.

As far as the thieves on the cross, I don't think it's indicated in the Gospels their ethnicity, however one was aware that Yeshua had a Kingdom not of this world so doesn't sound like a Gentile to me. :)

But how would they would've known anything about Elijah?
But, obviously you don't agree with my post, and I don't want to go round and round about it so...
Have a nice day, HBL. :)
You are correct, they wouldn't. One thing we should remember is the circumstances. Yeshua was hanging by his wrists, the only thing supporting him was a small piece of wood that he pushed up from with his two legs nailed together to breath. Breathing was the most difficult thing and thus would limit any words being able to be spoken.

Eli, is also Aramaic. In saying this name, it involves two sylables E li, Eliyahu would be four. The last two, the 'yahu' could have been mistaken as the end of the breath he had if you understand what I'm saying, and his voice also wouldn't be that loud so it could have been misheard. From the text it seems it was probably one of the Romans who said it, they might have heard this name being passed around as it was Passover and the hope was high that Messiah would come, thus Elijah being the forerunner......

46 About the ninth hour, Jesus cried out in a loud voice, “Eli, Eli, lema sabachthani?” which means, “My God, My God, why have you forsaken Me?” 47 When some of those standing there heard this, they said, “He is calling Elijah.” 48 One of them quickly ran and brought a sponge. He filled it with vinegar, put it on a reed, and held it up for Jesus to drink.…​

I think by the action of the one right after this (bringing the sponge to him), shows it was one of the soldiers as I don't think they allowed anyone else near the prisoners.



OK. But I'll give you the answer as you've asked the question.

Elijah was a well known historical figure.

Many people did not know what Yeshua looked like (Isaiah 53). Even the High Priests didn't know him - they paid Judas to have him pointed out. At the crucifixion he was up against another man, and they set bar Abba free. At the crucifixion there were many who didn't know him, or they would have been seen mourning him.

Have a great day!

I'm not sure what Yeshua looked like has to do with this? But as far as the High Priests not knowing him, surely they did, he was brought before them, the whole Sanhedrin.

Mark 14:53 They led Jesus away to the high priest, and all the chief priests, elders, and scribes assembled.​

As far as Judas pointing him out, (by a kiss greeting) it was late, it was dark, they were in the Garden he was surrounded by eleven of his inner circle. They wanted to make sure they got the right one as they failed previously in taking him.

John 7:45 Then the officers returned to the chief priests and Pharisees, who asked them, “Why didn’t you bring Him in?” 46“Never has anyone spoken like this man!” the officers answered. 47“Have you also been deceived?” replied the Pharisees.…​
 
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mmksparbud

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Interesting never heard this before.

The date when Jonah was written is uncertain. Because of certain features of the language of the book and because of its theological themes, many scholars conclude that the book was written sometime between 500-400 B.C.E., after the Babylonian exile.
Enter the Bible - Books: Jonah
www.enterthebible.org/oldtestament.aspx?rid=19


Ahab became king of Israel in the thirty-eighth year of Asa, king of Judah, and reigned for twenty-two years, according to 1 Kings.[2] William F. Albright dated his reign to 869–850 BC, while E. R. Thiele offered the dates 874–853 BC.[3] Most recently, Michael D. Coogan has dated Ahab's reign to 871–852 BC.[4]


Elijah's raising of the widows son would have had to take place sometime during Ahab's reign, during the 3 year drought. Jonah seems to be somewhere around 824 BC---


Historians consider the biblical account about Jonah's warning against Nineveh as a pious fiction, however, the Gospels refer to it as a real story (Lk 11:29-32). The book of Jonah, despite its brevity, gives some verifiable information regarding Nineveh, a very old city, which disappeared completely after its destruction in 612 BCE. The dimensions mentioned seem colossal, however they agree with the accounts of Herodotus (The Histories I:178), Ctesias (Persica §3) and Strabo (Geography XVI:1:3). Moreover, these dimensions, seemingly boundless, yet have been confirmed by archaeology. The text of 2 Kings 14:23-25 relates the mission of Jonah with the accession of Jeroboam II, as pointed out Josephus (Jewish Antiquities IX:205-207), which illuminates the reason and the urgency of his mission, because this particular year coincides with the death of Shalmaneser III (824/823 BCE). The coincidence in time sheds light on the strange role of Jonah. When Jonah comes to Assyria the situation was this: the Assyrian king Shalmaneser III who resided in the new capital Kalhu was dying, his son Shamshi-Adad V was commissioned, as new Crown prince, to quell the revolt headed by his brother Assur-danin-pal who led 27 cities as former Crown prince and consequently King of Nineveh (Jonah 3:6). Jonah's mission was therefore a success since Assyrian expansionism to the Mediterranean coast will cease, at least for 80 years. The fact that Jonah was swallowed by a big fish is often mocked but this unique event is rationally possible, moreover, the biblical text describes it as a divine intervention (Jonah 1:17).
Jonah vs King of Nineveh: Chronological, Historical and Archaeological Evidence by Gerard Gertoux | Glasstree

Jonah is identified as a prophet and servant of God during the reign of King Jeroboam II of Israel (2 Kings 14:24-25)—between 792 and 753 B.C. (Nelson’s NKJV Study Bible). Jonah’s name means “dove”; and his commission, as recorded in the book of Jonah, was to convey a message from God to the Assyrian capital of Nineveh.



I don't see how this could be possible. The widow and her son were pagans from Zarepheth (Syria). Jonah was a Jew from northern Galilee.

2Ki_14:25 He restored the coast of Israel from the entering of Hamath unto the sea of the plain, according to the word of the LORD God of Israel, which he spake by the hand of his servant Jonah, the son of Amittai, the prophet, which was of Gathhepher.

Is Amittai being called the prophet who was of Gathepher? There is no other information about his father. But if Jonah is the son of a prophet---his mother would not have been a pagan.
Even if she had been a pagan--the miracles of Elijah would have converted her and her son.


Ahab 871–852 BC.
Jeroboam between 792 and 753 B.C.


Cant find anything about Jonah's age, that's about a 100 year gap there. They don't seem to be living that long right then.
 
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