Why do people reject Jesus Christ?

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“Follow peace with all men, and holiness, without which no man shall see the Lord:” (Hebrews 12:14)

Do you believe 1 John 1:8 is a declaration that we will always sin in this life? Do you believe King David was saved while he committed his sins of adultery and murder?

If so, how can one obey and or follow after holiness?
 
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Dave L

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Do you believe 1 John 1:8 is a declaration that we will always sin in this life? Do you believe King David was saved while he committed his sins of adultery and murder?

If so, how can one obey and or follow after holiness?
Those who are born-again overcome all sin and live holy lifestyles.

“For everyone who has been born of God overcomes the world. And this is the victory that has overcome the world—our faith. Who is it that overcomes the world except the one who believes that Jesus is the Son of God?” (1 John 5:4–5)
 
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RaymondG

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What you say is a little vague. Could you clarify exactly to what misfortunes of others believers here are talking against?
I find it unfortunate, when one rejects Christ. Do you view this otherwise? Im asking, how can talking about this, or anything others are doing that we feel is not right, can help them...or us? Again, if you find that someone rejecting Christ, is not a misfortune, than this question does not apply to you. But you can still answer if you feel there are other cases in which talking about the sin of others can help them or us.
 
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Emli

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I believe (and Scripture affirms) that the effectiveness of the preaching is not dependent upon the spirituality of the person preaching. It’s dependent upon the Holy Spirit.
Of course it depends on the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit is our spirituality. If He fills us and leads us and gives us the words to speak, that is Him working through us to preach the Gospel. And we can do nothing without Him. John 15:5. We cannot produce fruit by our own strength or in the flesh. All fruit is produced by the Father as we abide in Him. If a person is walking in the flesh and is quenching the Spirit or doesn't have the Spirit, and they preach the Bible anyway, then his or her words aren't God's words. They are originally His words which they are quoting, but they wouldn't be effective, because they wouldn't be spoken by Him in that moment. That person would be led by their own understanding instead of what God is revealing to them. And in the worst case, it could hurt or mislead people, teaching false doctrines.

I think you may have a negative view of spirituality. Spirituality in the Holy Spirit isn't anything spectacular, or anything that can give us pride (though many falsely believe that it is). Because we can only be filled with and led by the Spirit if we are humble. Otherwise we quench Him. The Holy Spirit gives us a sound mind and a mind that is entirely focused on God, just like Jesus was.

"But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, forbearance, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness and self-control." Galatians 5:22-23

But we preach with power, His power. 1 Corinthians 2:4, 1 Thessalonians 1:5.

That doesn't depend at all on our own so-called "spirituality" or on our own power, strength or intellectual abilities, but completely on the Holy Spirit which is our real spirituality, which is the point I have been trying to make.
 
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Emli

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You can watch all their most recent archived services and generally their live services as well. It's kind of amazing how it worked out actually, the evening service came up with an error and could not be loaded, so we watched the 11 am archived service ( it was live at 11 am but already archived by evening). That service spoke to me and brought hope to my heart about some things that have been floating around in the back of my mind lately. FWIW, on Sunday est they have 9 and 11 am services and 6:30 pm. Wed evening is a service at 7:30 est. But these are all archived so if not in that time zone you can get the recorded message. Also weekdays they have a 1 hour broadcast that can be seen and heard at their facebook page called Grace Hour. This is a devotional from scripture then they take calls or online messages and answer questions, respond to comments etc. They get a lot of the same callers but also calls from over seas missionaries too. I much prefer the live broadcasts because to me that is more Holy Spirit interactive for lack of a better term, but the archived messages run smoother in terms of electronics. And I find Grace Hour to generally be a blessing, it airs between 1-2pm est every week day except holidays.
Cool. I'll make sure to look up their website. :)
 
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Hammster

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Of course it depends on the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit is our spirituality. If He fills us and leads us and gives us the words to speak, that is Him working through us to preach the Gospel. And we can do nothing without Him. John 15:5. We cannot produce fruit by our own strength or in the flesh. All fruit is produced by the Father as we abide in Him. If a person is walking in the flesh and is quenching the Spirit or doesn't have the Spirit, and they preach the Bible anyway, then his or her words aren't God's words. They are originally His words which they are quoting, but they wouldn't be effective, because they wouldn't be spoken by Him in that moment. That person would be led by their own understanding instead of what God is revealing to them. And in the worst case, it could hurt or mislead people, teaching false doctrines.

I think you may have a negative view of spirituality. Spirituality in the Holy Spirit isn't anything spectacular, or anything that can give us pride (though many falsely believe that it is). Because we can only be filled with and led by the Spirit if we are humble. Otherwise we quench Him. The Holy Spirit gives us a sound mind and a mind that is entirely focused on God, just like Jesus was.

"But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, forbearance, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness and self-control." Galatians 5:22-23

But we preach with power, His power. 1 Corinthians 2:4, 1 Thessalonians 1:5.

That doesn't depend at all on our own so-called "spirituality" or on our own power, strength or intellectual abilities, but completely on the Holy Spirit which is our real spirituality, which is the point I have been trying to make.

I think you misunderstood what I said. This is part of a long conversation we are having. You tend to take things out of context.

My point, as evidenced by the context of the conversation, is that the effectiveness of what is preached is dependent on the Holy Spirit. So the person preaching could not be saved at all, but that has no bearing on how the hearer is affected. That is entirely the work of the Holy Spirit.
 
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I find it unfortunate, when one rejects Christ. Do you view this otherwise? Im asking, how can talking about this, or anything others are doing that we feel is not right, can help them...or us?

The Bible talks about those who reject Christ.
If it is in the Bible (and it is), then it is there for our learning and we can also talk about it.

Again, if you find that someone rejecting Christ, is not a misfortune, than this question does not apply to you.

I did not know what you were referring to at first. Now, I got it. You were referring to the OP topic. I do find it to be a misfortune that folks would reject Christ, but to see why they do will help wake up those who may be in a spiritual sleep and need to be awakened by seeking God's forgiveness and by walking uprightly with God.

You said:
But you can still answer if you feel there are other cases in which talking about the sin of others can help them or us.

The Bible talks about the sins of others many times and these words are in our Bible for our learning and instruction in righteousness.
 
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Those who are born-again overcome all sin and live holy lifestyles.

“For everyone who has been born of God overcomes the world. And this is the victory that has overcome the world—our faith. Who is it that overcomes the world except the one who believes that Jesus is the Son of God?” (1 John 5:4–5)

That really did not answer my questions.
Do you believe 1 John 1:8 is saying that a believer will always sin in this life?
Do you believe David was saved even while he committed his sins of adultery and murder?
 
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Dave L

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That really did not answer my questions.
Do you believe 1 John 1:8 is saying that a believer will always sin in this life?
Do you believe David was saved even while he committed his sins of adultery and murder?
God used Bathsheba in Jesus' ancestry. He probably would not have been physically the same if not for her. So there's more going on than what you assume in this situation. Our flesh is wicked, but in the new birth we can overpower it. Born again people do this all the time. If you are not born again, sin is inevitable.
 
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Zoii

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Yes, I get it. You reject Jesus because you want to go your own way in life, live by your own will and serve the "god" of your choice. Because the paradise that God is offering you isn't enough. You want to be like God and decide for yourself what is good or evil, rejecting Truth. That is pride, and the reason why Adam and Eve fell, and why most people reject God. They want to rebel and go their own way and create their own religion, or stay in the religion of their parents or their culture. It's comfortable. Jesus told us to give up all of that and seek the only real God instead and He proved to us that what He said was true, and He still does today. Dying to self is humility, not pride. Selfishly choosing your own path in life to serve your own interests, is pride. I used to believe that all religions were true, and then I realized that it is impossible. There are many "spiritual" paths in life, but there is only one Way that leads to eternal life, and that is the narrow road. And the broad path (your own way and the ways of the world) leads to destruction. There is only one Truth (something cannot be true and false at the same time), and that Truth is Jesus. He proves that to anyone who humble themselves and seek Him and seek God's will from a pure heart. Should a Christian who knows Jesus lie and let others die in their sins? To be popular and well-liked? To feel good about themselves? What is that? Humility? No, that is pride.
That was a very pride-filled and arrogant answer and kinda reinforced my whole point.
 
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Emli

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This is where we may disagree, my dear sister.

It is not possible to put God's Word above God because God's Word (the Bible) are the very thoughts of God (and or the very heart felt words of love of God towards us). Every word (and even every number) in our Bible is for the express purpose of instructing us in His salvation and His good ways. Every word of it leads us to GOD. His love. The Bible is like a love letter.

Now, it is possible for a person to wrongfully put the Bible (contrary to what His Word says) above God in a way that He did not intend like turning the Bible into a magical object to be worshiped as if it has power of it's own outside of God. A person can bow down and or kiss the Bible as if it deserves glory separate from God. This would be wrong. They can treat the Bible as an entity and yet ignore the existence of God. That would be weird. This would be like a woman who received a love letter from her fiancé and all of a sudden she snaps (mentally) and she starts to treat the love letter as if it was a person. She could take the letter out on dinner dates, kiss it, and talk to the letter as if it was her fiancé (While ignoring her fiancé). That would be weird. There are some people who are close to doing this. I have seen pics of those who kissed the Bible before. I don't think they fully understand the Word on a spiritual level if they were to do this. So in a way I guess that is a person putting the Bible above God (But they are doing so at the expense of what the Bible actually says, though). If a person were to truly surrender to what their Bible says, they will never treat the Bible as an idol object to be worshiped by kissing it or bowing down before it.
I have heard of people treating the Bible in that way too. It would be the same as worshipping statues or "holy objects". But that is not what I meant. There are those who put the Bible above God like the Pharisees were doing. They were seeking Scriptures to gain eternal life, and to look good to others, but they weren't seeking God. They were taking so much pride in knowing the words in the OT Scriptures, but they had no understanding. There are those today who memorize verses, but aren't applying them to their lives. That makes the Word devoid of power in their lives. It gives people a false spirituality and feeds their pride. Some people see the Bible as just a means to gain wisdom, but it becomes wordly wisdom and not Godly wisdom.

Do you understand what I mean? If someone is not seeking God, but they seek to understand Scripture by their own understanding, then that becomes and idol.

To us the Bible is a love letter. To them it is a means to gain power, glory, fame, money etc.

On the other hand, we have to be careful here in talking about the importance of the Bible because it can make people think God's Word (the Bible) is not important for our lives at all (or should play second fiddle in our lives). However, nothing could be further from the truth because we have to apply God's Word to our life. It is how we get our faith. The Bible is essential to our knowing God and in our knowing how to please Him. There are some I am even arguing with now that says that we should not regard God's Word as important as following what they claim to be God. They attack God's Word by de-emphasizing it's importance in favor of their version of God (who moves in their life) that is contrary (in some way) to the GOD described in the Bible.
Trust me, I know what you mean. It hurts my heart when I see it. I live by the Word, and only by the Word, unless God points me to something else as well (like science to explain Creation), but even then I'm careful not to let it taint my morals or my faith. Everyone should make the Bible their top priotity in their walks with God.

I believe sin is what gets in the way of the soul's understanding (Whether you be a human or an angel). Sin is like a disease that clouds a person's mind when reading the Bible. God seals up the book of it's understanding fully for certain specific souls who read the Bible (like evil spirits, or those who have committed an unforgivable sin); Otherwise, God is calling by His Word all men to repentance, when they read His Word. He is there in His Word trying to tug at their hearts by His spiritual and divine message (the Bible). They may try to suppress it in some instances because of their sin, and or sinful doctrines, but God is there with His Word (the Bible) who is trying to call out to their hearts. Knocking on the door of their heart with His Holy words (the Bible).
I do agree with you. But you are talking about reading the Bible. I was talking specifically about quoting Scripture to an unbeliever, without explaining it. They cannot understand it. I have tried. If they read the Bible on their own, that is different. But if I give them a verse and it isn't what they need to hear or what they are capable of understanding (pearls to swine to an unbeliever, or meat to a new believer) then that verse will not have any positive effect on that person. It will probably just confuse them.

I am glad to hear it. I have run into folks who seem like they are attacking the Bible. This is happening to me in another thread. They are placing more of an importance on their version of God over what the Bible actually says. I am glad you are saying you are not doing that.

However, my deep concern was with your statement that said "There is no life in the Bible." That statement deeply troubles me because it is untrue. It is speaking against the faith by saying that. That statement to me is an oxymoron because God always abides with His Word. He may seal up it's understanding to those entities who are evil or to those souls who have corrupted themselves beyond forgiveness, but God is always abides by His Word. For some it is a closed book because of their sin. For others, who seek the truth with a pure heart, it is an open book. But I do not feel it is right to say there is no life in the Bible. It is a spiritual book that God always abides by.

I believe there is life in the Bible because God always abides by His Word.
I am going to retract that statement, because I see how it could be misinterpreted. But do you understand the point I was making?

If I speak a verse to a person who is not capable of understanding it yet, like a seed that falls on unplowed ground, it won't grow. In that way, that seed will not give life to the person. Yes, the seed has life in it (okay, God corrected me just now with this), but it won't be able to grow or take root. That is what would happen if we speak Bible verses out of sync with what God is doing in that person.
 
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God used Bathsheba in Jesus' ancestry. He probably would not have been physically the same if not for her. So there's more going on than what you assume in this situation. Our flesh is wicked, but in the new birth we can overpower it. Born again people do this all the time. If you are not born again, sin is inevitable.

Again: You are ignoring my questions. How do you read 1 John 1:8? Do you believe this applies to the life of the believer? Or do you think it is saying something else? Was David saved while he committed his sins of adultery and murder?
 
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Emli

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I believe the Spirit can talk to us and put words in our mouth to speak, but I believe this was said primarily as a part of the followers of Christ in writing Scripture.
He gives me the words to speak all day long when I witness or minister to others. It's rivers of living water. John 7:37-39. I don't always feel it, but I see the effect of it as the words I speak opens people's eyes and changes them. Because it is Him and not me who is speaking. I believe that He does this for everyone who is led by the Spirit, I'm just aware of it so I can take no credit, which I pridefully used to do. :) Then there are also gifts, but that's another topic for another time.
 
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I have heard of people treating the Bible in that way too. It would be the same as worshipping statues or "holy objects". But that is not what I meant. There are those who put the Bible above God like the Pharisees were doing. They were seeking Scriptures to gain eternal life, and to look good to others, but they weren't seeking God. They were taking so much pride in knowing the words in the OT Scriptures, but they had no understanding. There are those today who memorize verses, but aren't applying them to their lives. That makes the Word devoid of power in their lives. It gives people a false spirituality and feeds their pride. Some people see the Bible as just a means to gain wisdom, but it becomes wordly wisdom and not Godly wisdom.

Do you understand what I mean? If someone is not seeking God, but they seek to understand Scripture by their own understanding, then that becomes and idol.

To us the Bible is a love letter. To them it is a means to gain power, glory, fame, money etc.


Trust me, I know what you mean. It hurts my heart when I see it. I live by the Word, and only by the Word, unless God points me to something else as well (like science to explain Creation), but even then I'm careful not to let it taint my morals or my faith. Everyone should make the Bible their top priotity in their walks with God.


I do agree with you. But you are talking about reading the Bible. I was talking specifically about quoting Scripture to an unbeliever, without explaining it. They cannot understand it. I have tried. If they read the Bible on their own, that is different. But if I give them a verse and it isn't what they need to hear or what they are capable of understanding (pearls to swine to an unbeliever, or meat to a new believer) then that verse will not have any positive effect on that person. It will probably just confuse them.


I am going to retract that statement, because I see how it could be misinterpreted. But do you understand the point I was making?

If I speak a verse to a person who is not capable of understanding it yet, like a seed that falls on unplowed ground, it won't grow. In that way, that seed will not give life to the person. Yes, the seed has life in it (okay, God corrected me just now with this), but it won't be able to grow or take root. That is what would happen if we speak Bible verses out of sync with what God is doing in that person.

Thanks Emli for clarifying your thoughts and for agreeing that there is life in the Bible. I fully understand what you mean that many will not receive the seed of the Word into their hearts. It is like seed thrown by the way side. While the parable of the Sower is talking about the entire life of individuals, I also see that that part of the parable could convey the truth that a person can hear the seed of the Word of God and refuse it, but then at a later point in time, they could receive the Word into their hearts, too.

Meaning.... we have to have.... HOPE.
Hope and prayer for those who do reject God's Word in what we have shown them. They may have rejected that seed at one point in time, but God can bring it back to them. Like Jonah, who did not want to go and preach to the Ninevites. God had other plans for him.

We have to hold out hope for all people.
Loving them with the love of God.
 
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He gives me the words to speak all day long when I witness or minister to others. It's rivers of living water. John 7:37-39. I don't always feel it, but I see the effect of it as the words I speak opens people's eyes and changes them. Because it is Him and not me who is speaking. I believe that He does this for everyone who is led by the Spirit, I'm just aware of it so I can take no credit, which I pridefully used to do. :) Then there are also gifts, but that's another topic for another time.

I have just become more open to the gifts (tongues) as being a possibility. I believed the other gifts were possible, but I was not so sure about tongues. I am still on the fence on that one. I have to fast and pray about that topic a lot while studying Scripture to come to the truth on that one. David Servant (An Ohio preacher I discovered on YouTube convinced me a bit of the validity of tongues for our day (You can check out that short video here if you are interested); I like his sermons because they teach the necessity of how we have to obey as a part of the faith).

Anyways, God bless you today Emli.
 
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RaymondG

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The Bible talks about those who reject Christ.
If it is in the Bible (and it is), then it is there for our learning and we can also talk about it.
Are you saying that the answers to the thread topic is already in the bible? And we are to talk about what the bible says about it? Or are we to also, point out people in the world and talking about how and why they are rejecting Christ?

I did not know what you were referring to at first. Now, I got it. You were referring to the OP topic. I do find it to be a misfortune that folks would reject Christ, but to see why they do will help wake up those who may be in a spiritual sleep and need to be awakened by seeking God's forgiveness and by walking uprightly with God.
So you are hoping that the ones rejecting Christ are reading this thread, and with the help us talking about them, they can understand their errors and then come to Christ?

The Bible talks about the sins of others many times and these words are in our Bible for our learning and instruction in righteousness.
I can understand your seeing this in the bible....and I do believe myself, that it is there for my my own learning. The part im confused about it the using it to talk about others......
 
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Zoii

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Not all Christians see religions divisively. No all enter an understanding that those worshipping God from another part of the world, must be wrong, because they adopt a separate way of worshipping and use another set of documents to support the paradigm of their religion.

I think there is a great commonality in regions of the world. NONE of us knows for certain that what we say is true - that's a matter of faith and intellect. We cannot know for certain that Jesus was the son of God - that is a concept of faith.

Nor can Moslems say with certainty that Mohammed ascended into heaven - that is a matter of faith for them, not fact.

For me, those things are not so important. I recognise that just because something is written, does not mean it's true. What's important is to strive towards an understanding of God, and the meaning of life.
 
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Emli

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I think you misunderstood what I said. This is part of a long conversation we are having. You tend to take things out of context.

My point, as evidenced by the context of the conversation, is that the effectiveness of what is preached is dependent on the Holy Spirit. So the person preaching could not be saved at all, but that has no bearing on how the hearer is affected. That is entirely the work of the Holy Spirit.
To be honest though, you rarely explain what you mean, so it's easy to misunderstand you. You post one sentence as a response to 20 sentences, ignoring most of what I have written. And I'm not taking anything out of context. I'm trying to put things into context.

Of course the spiritual state of the person speaking affects what the other person hears.

1 Corinthians 15:33 "Do not be misled: "Bad company corrupts good character."

The Bible tells us over and over to watch out for false prophets, to avoid deception and false doctrines, to test all spirits. If someone lies to you and you agree with it, then that person has affected you. If the person speaks from their own mind and you agree you have believed in a doctrine of man. If that person's words come from an unclean spirit and you agree, you have believed in a doctrine of demons. If he or she speaks from the Spirit and you agree then you have believed sound doctrine.

God could use an unsaved person, or anything that is in Creation, to speak to us. But we have to be careful. Should we listen to the devil or his false prophets as they are twisting Scripture taking it out of context? Or should we listen to the Holy Spirit as He teaches us sound doctrine?
 
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Are you saying that the answers to the thread topic is already in the bible? And we are to talk about what the bible says about it? Or are we to also, point out people in the world and talking about how and why they are rejecting Christ?

Can God not use real life situations for our learning?

So you are hoping that the ones rejecting Christ are reading this thread, and with the help us talking about them, they can understand their errors and then come to Christ?

Uh, no. I am not hoping any person rejects Christ. Why would you think that? I am saying that while a person may reject Christ today, that does not mean they will reject Christ tomorrow or a few years later down the road. I used to be an atheist and I did not want to have anything to do with God. But God softened my heart by using love and then I later accepted Christ by hearing the Holy Scriptures.

You said:
I can understand your seeing this in the bible....and I do believe myself, that it is there for my my own learning. The part im confused about it the using it to talk about others......

Were specific people mentioned who rejected Christ by name talked about here within this thread?
 
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