WHO IS GOD'S TRUE CHURCH ACCORDING TO GOD'S WORD?

1stcenturylady · Oct 20, 2018

LoveGodsWord said:
Who said you recieve God's Spirit by following the letter of the LAW? I think what you are not understanding here is the role of God's LAW in salvation. God's LAW has the same role it always had and that is to give us the KNOWLEDGE of GOOD and EVIL; SIN and RIGHTEOUSNESS *ROMANS 3:20; ROMANS 7:7; JAMES 2:9-11; PSLAMS 119:172. It makes nothing perfect and does not save us.

It shows us that we are all sinners in need of a Saviour and that that there is none righteous no not one and that all the world is guilty before God for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God *ROMANS 3:10-20. It is our teacher to show us our need of God's GRACE and salvation. It leads us to Christ that we might be FORGIVEN by faith and free to walk in his Spirit so we no longer fulfill the lusts of the flesh. *GALATIANS 3:22-25; ROMANS 8:1-4; GALATIANS 5:16

Yes, that is for someone who isn't a Christian. Once we enter into Christ we keep the righteous requirements of the law in a whole new way - the Spirit. When you were born again didn't you notice an extreme change in desires? I did, and that was over 40 years ago.

1stcenturylady · Oct 20, 2018

@JLB777 and @LoveGodsWord

You should know by now I have respect for SDA, as you at least try to please God, as opposed to reformation denominations. But it is my dream to share with you, the Spirit. I was in SDA since I was a baby, and I learned a lot of the Bible, but nothing about grace, nor the baptism of the Holy Spirit. Though I knew the law, I had no power over sin. I left in 1970, and in 1977 received the baptism of the Holy Spirit. Wow! What a difference the Spirit makes. But also the knowledge that if I had died during those years of trying to follow after the law without the power of the Spirit indwelling me, I would have gone to hell. It is my greatest desire to see you all born again of the Spirit. Don't get me wrong, I don't know if you are or aren't. I only know one Spirit-filled SDA pastor. I just know your posts would be stressing the Spirit over the law if you were, as the Spirit holds us to a higher standard than the law does the world. You're like that RCC's belief they are the only Church. No, it is only those who HAVE the Spirit of Christ that belong to Him.

Erik Nelson · Oct 20, 2018

LoveGodsWord said:
Everything is as it should be. God's WORD has gone to the WORLD just as God wanted it to. We no longer are held in the dark ages not having access to God's WORD and all mankind now has acess to God's written WORD. We are no longer enslaved to indulgences and other unscriptural teachings promoted by the RCC. Only God's WORD is true and we should believe and follow it.

I understand that Catholics would agree. There was a deep need for the Counter Reformation the so called internal reformation of the Catholic Church admittedly in response to Luther and Protestants.

I think Catholics would claim that Protestants threw out much of the baby with the bathwater so to speak. For example, everyone acknowledges. That the Apostles and Jesus quoted from the LXX, which contains 73 books. The Protestants tossed out 10% of scripture. They unambiguously Tossed out. 10% of the baby they claim to rely solely upon with the proverbial bath water.

10% total casualties. Is like Germany or Russia in the World Wars. That's a very deep cut into Scripture.

Some would say Luther went a little too far.

Erik Nelson · Oct 20, 2018

JLB777 said:
For this is the love of God, that we keep His commandments. And His commandments are not burdensome.
1 John 5:3

I will say, His Commandments are not limited to the 10, as whatever He leads us to do, we should do because we love Him.

If you love Me keep My commandments.
John 14:15

JLB

"His" means Jesus not Moses, right?

Erik Nelson · Oct 20, 2018

LoveGodsWord said:
What law is James talking about? He is talking about the law of LOVE that PAUL says sums up the 10 Commandments that are our duty of LOVE to our neighbor. *ROMANS 13:8-10; JAMES 2:8-12. You close your eyes to God's WORD

Yes, those are perfect passages of scripture to cite in this case.

yet you are putting the cart before the horse

The Royal Law of love is to do on to others. As you would have them? Do unto you to love your neighbor, as yourself.

if you keep the one singular royal law, you will automatically keep the 10 Commandments and much, much more.

The Royal Law subsumes and expands upon the 10 Commandments. And yet the law Christians are required to keep is the Royal Law of love not the 10 Commandments directly per say?

Christians must keep the Royal Law of love of Christ. if, they do so. They will automatically be keeping the 10 Commandments of Moses also. But that is now something of a footnote, so to speak for want of worthier words.

Erik Nelson · Oct 20, 2018

LoveGodsWord said:
If you feel the need to make up things Steve I will leave that between you and God as it is God's WORD not mine. If you cannot understand it maybe you can pray about it. It is very clear to me and I do not have any problems with it. Misrepresenting the views of others is bearing false witness.

JAMES 4:17 Therefore to him that knows to do good, and does it not, to him it is sin.

ACTS 17:30-31
[30], And the times of this ignorance God overlooked; but now commands all men everywhere to repent:
[31], Because he has appointed a day, in which he will judge the world in righteousness by that man whom he has ordained; and of this he has given assurance unto all men, in that he has raised him from the dead.

There is a growing in the KNOWLEDGE of God's WORD. When we are first Christians we do not know everything right away. As we continue in God's WORD we are his disciples and we learn everyday to be more and more like Jesus. That means putting away sin as it is revealed to us thorugh God's WORD.

2 PETER 3:18 [18], But grow in grace, and in the knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. To him be glory both now and forever. Amen.

JOHN 8:31-32 [31], Then said Jesus to those Jews who believed on him, If you continue in my word, then are you my disciples indeed; [32], And you shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.

Thinking you know everything right away as soon as you first become a babe in Christ is not biblical.

ignorance in acts 17:30 refers to the ignorance of the Athenian idolaters in acts 17:23

God stopped forgiving the Athenians the sin of their idolatry in the mid first century, as soon as Paul preached the gospel to their ears.

I'm not sure how much or how far you can generalize that specific context of Athens in the first century. 2 other people in other places at other times.

LoveGodsWord · Oct 21, 2018

Erik Nelson said:
I understand that Catholics would agree. There was a deep need for the Counter Reformation the so called internal reformation of the Catholic Church admittedly in response to Luther and Protestants.

I think Catholics would claim that Protestants threw out much of the baby with the bathwater so to speak. For example, everyone acknowledges. That the Apostles and Jesus quoted from the LXX, which contains 73 books. The Protestants tossed out 10% of scripture. They unambiguously Tossed out. 10% of the baby they claim to rely solely upon with the proverbial bath water.

10% total casualties. Is like Germany or Russia in the World Wars. That's a very deep cut into Scripture.

Some would say Luther went a little too far.

Depends on if you agree or disagree that God is not in control of his WORD. I believe God is in control of his WORD and what we have today has brought mankind out of the darkages that the RCC held the whole world in.

LoveGodsWord · Oct 21, 2018

Erik Nelson said:
Yes, those are perfect passages of scripture to cite in this case.

yet you are putting the cart before the horse

The Royal Law of love is to do on to others. As you would have them? Do unto you to love your neighbor, as yourself.

if you keep the one singular royal law, you will automatically keep the 10 Commandments and much, much more.

The Royal Law subsumes and expands upon the 10 Commandments. And yet the law Christians are required to keep is the Royal Law of love not the 10 Commandments directly per say?

Christians must keep the Royal Law of love of Christ. if, they do so. They will automatically be keeping the 10 Commandments of Moses also. But that is now something of a footnote, so to speak for want of worthier words.

Not really. You cannot separate God's LAW from LOVE because LOVE is the very expression of God's LAW. This is what Paul is saying in *ROMANS 13:8-10. You do not attain to it by seeking after the LAW but by seeking after Christ through Faith. We need to be born again to LOVE. This is why Jesus says in regards to the two great commandments of LOVE to GOD and MAN HANG ALL THE LAW and the prophets *MATTHEW 22:36-40. Many do not understand the role of God's LAW in the NEW COVENANT. They have the same role they always had and that is to give us the KNOWLEDGE of GOOD and EVIL; SIN AND RIGHTEOUSNESS *ROMANS 3:20; ROMANS 7:7; JAMES 2:9-11; PSALMS 119:172. They make nothing perfect but show us who we all are, sinners in need of a Savior. They lead us to Christ that we might be FORGIVEN by faith and lead us to depend soley on the WORD of GOD for salvation.

LoveGodsWord · Oct 21, 2018

Erik Nelson said:
ignorance in acts 17:30 refers to the ignorance of the Athenian idolaters in acts 17:23

God stopped forgiving the Athenians the sin of their idolatry in the mid first century, as soon as Paul preached the gospel to their ears.

I'm not sure how much or how far you can generalize that specific context of Athens in the first century. 2 other people in other places at other times.

Wheather you wish to use JAMES 4:17 or ACTS 17:30 they are saying similar things. When we are new Christians God holds us accountable to what he has revealed to us through his WORD not what we do not know.

Erik Nelson · Oct 21, 2018

LoveGodsWord said:
Depends on if you agree or disagree that God is not in control of his WORD. I believe God is in control of his WORD and what we have today has brought mankind out of the darkages that the RCC held the whole world in.

Some would say that the Roman Catholic Church PRESERVED. What? Light of knowledge survived from classical times.

Roman Catholic monks from the Medieval Dark Ages are our only tie to the classical past the only reason we have the histories of Tacitus is who Suetonius And Josephus and so on, yes?

I suppose the Orthodox Greeks of Constantinople also preserved a lot. Of knowledge

Erik Nelson · Oct 21, 2018

LoveGodsWord said:
Wheather you wish to use JAMES 4:17 or ACTS 17:30 they are saying similar things. When we are new Christians God holds us accountable to what he has revealed to us through his WORD not what we do not know.

What about Romans 1:20?

Are you saying that the creation account of Genesis. One and 2? Is implicitly part of the gospel such that hearing the gospel includes hearing the creation account. And the rest of the Old Testament, which records all of the miracles of God. Upon whose awareness thereof. The hearer even for the first time must acknowledge the existence of God or else they have no excuse?

LoveGodsWord · Oct 21, 2018

Erik Nelson said:
Some would say that the Roman Catholic Church PRESERVED. What? Light of knowledge survived from classical times.

Roman Catholic monks from the Medieval Dark Ages are our only tie to the classical past the only reason we have the histories of Tacitus is who Suetonius And Josephus and so on, yes?

I suppose the Orthodox Greeks of Constantinople also preserved a lot. Of knowledge

We should be very greatful for what we have today. God's hand has been over his WORD and it is God who used Holy men to preserve his WORD that we have today. Nothing has stopped the WORD of GOD and today it is in every country and every language of the world. Jesus is coming soon for those who are ready to meet him.

LoveGodsWord · Oct 21, 2018

Erik Nelson said:
What about Romans 1:20?

Are you saying that the creation account of Genesis. One and 2? Is implicitly part of the gospel such that hearing the gospel includes hearing the creation account. And the rest of the Old Testament, which records all of the miracles of God. Upon whose awareness thereof. The hearer even for the first time must acknowledge the existence of God or else they have no excuse?

Of course it is. *JOHN 1:1-4; 14.

Karola · Oct 21, 2018

1stcenturylady said:
You ask:
"Who said that the ten commandments can bring a man to the standard of love?"

But don't you see, only the righteous and holy can enter into God's rest. That is only through Christ who takes away our sin. It is through the Spirit, not the letter of the law that failed. You don't receive the Spirit by following the Ten Commandments, but through faith in Jesus whose Spirit kills the sin nature. Christ's standards are much higher than the baseline Ten Commandments. This is why Jesus said, "Unless your righteousness exceeds that of the Pharisees (teachers of the law) you shall not enter into the Kingdom of Heaven. The 10C are based on the commandments of love, but don't reach that standard.

The Pharisees did not obey the Ten Commandments. Saul the Pharisee didn't, Paul the Christian tells us that in rom ch7. Neither did the other Pharisees. Jesus told them they were full of wickedness, hypocrisy and everything unclean on the inside. ''Everything'' unclean would be breaking the tenth commandment alone.
They had hardened hearts, so may have been able to convince themselves they did obey them when they did not. But as Paul stated the letter of those commandments kills, they would kill for everyone, not just a few. I think many, through a literal reading of them simply do not understand what obeying the Ten Commandments requires, Paul the Christian knew, hence 2Cor3:6

Karola · Oct 21, 2018

Erik Nelson said:
ignorance in acts 17:30 refers to the ignorance of the Athenian idolaters in acts 17:23

God stopped forgiving the Athenians the sin of their idolatry in the mid first century, as soon as Paul preached the gospel to their ears.

I'm not sure how much or how far you can generalize that specific context of Athens in the first century. 2 other people in other places at other times.

You can be in ignorance of understanding the letter of the law written in ink, but you cannot be in ignorance of understanding the law written in your mind and placed on your heart by the Holy Spirit. For what is in your mind you in your mind must know, and law in your heart, must bring heartfelt conviction of sin when you transgress it wilfully, for: Through the law we become conscious of sin. Your explanation of Acts17:30 is a good one. Many also misunderstand what is being written in James4:17:
Now listen, you who say, ‘Today or tomorrow we will go to this or that city, spend a year there, carry on business and make money.’ 14 Why, you do not even know what will happen tomorrow. What is your life? You are a mist that appears for a little while and then vanishes. 15 Instead, you ought to say, ‘If it is the Lord’s will, we will live and do this or that.’ 16 As it is, you boast in your arrogant schemes. All such boasting is evil. 17 If anyone, then, knows the good they ought to do and doesn’t do it, it is sin for them. James4:13-17
The passage is not about the law transferred onto your heart and mind that used to be written on tablets of stone, or law written in ink, it is about what you choose and decide to do with your life. IE, go to this or that city carry on a business there and make money. But people ought to say ''if it is the Lords will we will do this or that, God should decide what we do not we ourselves, and if we do not do what God wants us to do in these regards, we can be said to be committing sin in this sense by not doing it. If God told you to be a missionary in Africa and you did not do it, then you could be said to have sinned against God by not doing what he asked you to do. I on the other hand would not be sinning against God if I did not go to Africa to be a missionary if he did not ask me to go there. Everyone has their own particular cross to bear. So what, in this regard may be sin for you, would not be sin for me. . Therefore if you know what you should do in these regards and do not do it, for you it is sin.
The law written in the heart and mind is the same law written their for everyone, therefore what is a sin for one is a sin for all in regard to that law. You will not find written under the new covenant:
Through the law(which is written in your heart and mind) you may or may not become conscioius of sin.

Saint Steven · Oct 21, 2018

1stcenturylady said:
Some sins are not accountable to us if we don't know they are sins. Take for instance the person in 1 John 1:7. What types of sin are being committed by someone being guided by the Holy Spirit, for Jesus to be cleansing them? The Spirit doesn't lead us into lawlessness - the sins unto death. But there are sins NOT unto death that are unknown to us, and unwittingly committed. These are called trespasses. These are the sins spoken of in the Lord's Prayers. "Forgive us our trespasses, as we forgive others their trespasses against us." Therefore, as we forgive others, our own trespasses are cleansed by our Advocate. That is another point I wish to mention. 1 John 2:1 our advocate cleanses sins that do not require repentance, and it is not mentioned. If a sin is unknown to us, how can we repent? We can't, our Advocate takes care of them automatically, as we walk in the Spirit.

What the Church needs to be encouraging is a constant walk in the Spirit, and not the persistent looking for loopholes to fulfill the lust of the flesh, such as those posting 1 John 1:8 and Romans 7:14-23 and saying that is a Christian, and we will "always be in the flesh" in contradiction to Romans 8:9.

The truth is, a true Christian is not in the flesh, but in the Spirit. If you walk away from the Spirit and quench Him, you are in danger of hell fire. Galatians 5:19-21. There is no such thing as OSAS as those say who turn the grace of God into licentiousness, as Martin Luther who claimed, "No sin can separate us from Him, even if we were to kill or commit adultery thousands of times each day." RUN from those churches who ascribe to his heresy, and those are not just Lutheran, but all Reformation church denominations that subscribe to OSAS and live as they like. Also, Martin Luther says, "God does not save those who are only imaginary sinners. Be a sinner, and let your sins be strong, but let your trust in Christ be stronger, and rejoice in Christ who is the victor over sin, death, and the world. We will commit sins while we are here, for this life is not a place where justice resides."

At least SDA doesn't believe that nonsense. It is those who try to please God, not those who say they have fellowship with God, but walk in darkness that God will allow into heaven.

I agree that there can be sin that we are not knowledgeable about. (that God may decide to not hold us accountable for) Or that we can sin unknowingly. But my point is that these are still sin. We can't claim that sin isn't sin unless we know it is sin.

The flip side of that coin is the sins we are knowledgeable about that God does not hold us accountable for. I don't recall the references, but these have been pointed out to me before. One was Job, Abraham was another, Moses was a murderer, Rahab a liar, etc.

Furthermore, 1John1:7 begins with the word "but", which indicates a contrasting statement. What is it in contrast to? Also notice that the reference in verse seven is to sin (singular/in general) not sins (plural/individual). Our lack of knowledge does not mean that these are not sin. (not sure if you claiming that or not) LGW is.

1 John 1:5-7
This is the message we have heard from him and declare to you: God is light; in him there is no darkness at all. 6 If we claim to have fellowship with him and yet walk in the darkness, we lie and do not live out the truth. 7 But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus, his Son, purifies us from all sin.

LoveGodsWord · Oct 21, 2018

Saint Steven said:
I agree that there can be sin that we are not knowledgeable about. (that God may decide to not hold us accountable for) Or that we can sin unknowingly. But my point is that these are still sin. We can't claim that sin isn't sin unless we know it is sin.

The flip side of that coin is the sins we are knowledgeable about that God does not hold us accountable for. I don't recall the references, but these have been pointed out to me before. One was Job, Abraham was another, Moses was a murderer, Rahab a liar, etc.

Furthermore, 1John1:7 begins with the word "but", which indicates a contrasting statement. What is it in contrast to? Also notice that the reference in verse seven is to sin (singular/in general) not sins (plural/individual). Our lack of knowledge does not mean that these are not sin. (not sure if you claiming that or not) LGW is.

1 John 1:5-7
This is the message we have heard from him and declare to you: God is light; in him there is no darkness at all. 6 If we claim to have fellowship with him and yet walk in the darkness, we lie and do not live out the truth. 7 But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus, his Son, purifies us from all sin.

Please dont claim that I am saying something I am not. What you are claiming is not what I am claiming at all. (sin is still sin post # 543 click me)

* Known sin and unknown sin click me

Saint Steven · Oct 21, 2018

LoveGodsWord said:
Please dont claim that I am saying something I am not. What you are claiming is not what I am claiming at all. (sin is still sin post # 543 click me)

* Known sin and unknown sin click me

What you are saying is contradictory. And then you blame it on God.

First you say, "If someone does not know something is sin to him it is not sin and God does not hold them accountable..."
Then you say, "Just because someone does not know something is sin does not mean that it is not sin..."
Then you say, "When God gives them a KNOWLEDGE of the truth then it becomes sin."

LoveGodsWord said:
The scripture says *JAMES 4:17 Therefore to him that knows to do good, and does it not, to him it is sin. If someone does not know something is sin to him it is not sin and God does not hold them accountable until they know something is sin as it is written in *ACTS 17:30 And the times of this ignorance God overlooked; but now commands all men everywhere to repent. Just because someone does not know something is sin does not mean that it is not sin because they do not know it to be so. When God gives them a KNOWLEDGE of the truth then it becomes sin.

Karola · Oct 21, 2018

Can anyone give me a list of what might be sins of ignorance for born again believers?

Murder?
Stealing?
Bearing false witness?
Failing to love others?
Committing adultery?
Unkind thoughts about others?
Taking the Lords name in vain?
Lust?
Not loving God?
Etc
Through which law written in our minds and placed on our hearts may we not become conscious of sin?

LoveGodsWord · Oct 21, 2018

Saint Steven said:
What you are saying is contradictory. And then you blame it on God.

Not at all. You simply misrepresent what people say because you have no scriptures for your teachings. Shame on you.

Saint Steven said:
First you say, "If someone does not know something is sin to him it is not sin and God does not hold them accountable..."
Then you say, "Just because someone does not know something is sin does not mean that it is not sin..."

Indeed. This is what God's WORD says not me. It is not difficult to understand. If you find it difficult maybe you can pray about it.

JAMES 4:17 Therefore to him that knows to do good, and does it not, to him it is sin.

ACTS 17:30-31
[30], And the times of this ignorance God overlooked; but now commands all men everywhere to repent:
[31], Because he has appointed a day, in which he will judge the world in righteousness by that man whom he has ordained; and of this he has given assurance unto all men, in that he has raised him from the dead.

There is a growing in the KNOWLEDGE of God's WORD. When we are first Christians we do not know everything right away. As we continue in God's WORD we are his disciples and we learn everyday to be more and more like Jesus. That means putting away sin as it is revealed to us thorugh God's WORD.

2 PETER 3:18 [18], But grow in grace, and in the knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. To him be glory both now and forever. Amen.

JOHN 8:31-32 [31], Then said Jesus to those Jews who believed on him, If you continue in my word, then are you my disciples indeed; [32], And you shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.

Thinking you know everything right away as soon as you first become a babe in Christ is not biblical.

Saint Steven said:
Then you say, "When God gives them a KNOWLEDGE of the truth then it becomes sin."

Sorry I cannot take credit for it. It is God's WORD not min *JAMES 4:17; ACTS 17:30-31.
I am not sure what it is you find difficult to understand, maybe you can pray about it.

WHO IS GOD'S TRUE CHURCH ACCORDING TO GOD'S WORD?

Spirit-filled follower of Christ

Spirit-filled follower of Christ

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

You can call me Steve

Well-Known Member

You can call me Steve

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Similar threads