Do they not know they make themselves look foolish?

JohnB445 said:

I have a strong faith in Christ. I decided to look at the objections Muslims, pagans, and atheists have against Christianity. I did not want to do this at the beginning of my journey because I could of been easily swayed or deceived probably. The parable of the sower.

Here are the false claims and objections I found.

1. Bible is corrupted
2. Jesus said he was never God.
3. Christians believe in 3 Gods
4. failed prophecies
5. Christianity is pagan, and Judaism.
6. Hitler, Crusades,KKK, and British invasion of India, Political Imperialism was all because of Christianity.
7. Jesus was (God forbid blasphemy) a sinner, and was married.
8. The Holy Spirit (God forbid blasphemy) is Muhammad or Angel Gabriel
9. Reincarnation got taken out of the Bible.
10. The Bible is occult.
11. Muhammad is in the Bible.

I was knowledgeable enough to know all these claims are false and are very weak accusations. Especially the accusations Muslims make. After fact checking all of these I now don't see a point in listening to arguments from non-Christians since all they seem to spew is ignorance and false information. In turn when a Christian sees these accusations in the end it will just strengthen their own faith because they will find out that these accusations from non-Christians are all lies with no backing.

The only effect they may have is turning away seekers possibly. Satan is really trying hard these days to make Christianity look bad.

Click to expand...

Put all of those things in your toolbox, but remember to be charitable when debating them with others.

"Always be prepared to give an answer to everyone who asks you to give the reason for the hope that you have. But do this with gentleness and respect"

JohnB445 said:

Satan is really trying hard these days to make Christianity look bad.

Click to expand...

That sounds reasonable.

You'd be surprised how little people know about God and the Bible. They are content with writing it off and not learning the truth. The bible says they hide in the darkness because their deeds are evil.

JohnB445 said:

I have a strong faith in Christ. I decided to look at the objections Muslims, pagans, and atheists have against Christianity. I did not want to do this at the beginning of my journey because I could of been easily swayed or deceived probably. The parable of the sower.

Here are the false claims and objections I found.

1. Bible is corrupted
2. Jesus said he was never God.
3. Christians believe in 3 Gods
4. failed prophecies
5. Christianity is pagan, and Judaism.
6. Hitler, Crusades,KKK, and British invasion of India, Political Imperialism was all because of Christianity.
7. Jesus was (God forbid blasphemy) a sinner, and was married.
8. The Holy Spirit (God forbid blasphemy) is Muhammad or Angel Gabriel
9. Reincarnation got taken out of the Bible.
10. The Bible is occult.
11. Muhammad is in the Bible.

I was knowledgeable enough to know all these claims are false and are very weak accusations. Especially the accusations Muslims make. After fact checking all of these I now don't see a point in listening to arguments from non-Christians since all they seem to spew is ignorance and false information. In turn when a Christian sees these accusations in the end it will just strengthen their own faith because they will find out that these accusations from non-Christians are all lies with no backing.

The only effect they may have is turning away seekers possibly. Satan is really trying hard these days to make Christianity look bad.

Click to expand...

Wow I think we could expand your list to be longer. . Yeah see it here and other places often. I tire of the new ways all of the above employ logical fallacies too.

It takes some endurance to respond some times because what you get are long posts itemizing either grievances or assertions. Or both. Which amounts to complaints as opposed to actually an argument.

JohnB445 said:

Here are the false claims and objections I found.

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Great that you research this.

What are your answers to these claims?

You may not want to ingage in on line debates, but what about those you work with or members of your family etc.
One of them, knowing your a Christian and go to church, comes out with ony of them. an you demonstratequickly that what they have said is wrong.

JohnB445 said:

I have a strong faith in Christ. I decided to look at the objections Muslims, pagans, and atheists have against Christianity. I did not want to do this at the beginning of my journey because I could of been easily swayed or deceived probably. The parable of the sower.

Here are the false claims and objections I found.

1. Bible is corrupted
2. Jesus said he was never God.
3. Christians believe in 3 Gods
4. failed prophecies
5. Christianity is pagan, and Judaism.
6. Hitler, Crusades,KKK, and British invasion of India, Political Imperialism was all because of Christianity.
7. Jesus was (God forbid blasphemy) a sinner, and was married.
8. The Holy Spirit (God forbid blasphemy) is Muhammad or Angel Gabriel
9. Reincarnation got taken out of the Bible.
10. The Bible is occult.
11. Muhammad is in the Bible.

I was knowledgeable enough to know all these claims are false and are very weak accusations. Especially the accusations Muslims make. After fact checking all of these I now don't see a point in listening to arguments from non-Christians since all they seem to spew is ignorance and false information. In turn when a Christian sees these accusations in the end it will just strengthen their own faith because they will find out that these accusations from non-Christians are all lies with no backing.

The only effect they may have is turning away seekers possibly. Satan is really trying hard these days to make Christianity look bad.

Click to expand...

12. There isn't a single piece of evidence that rationally justifies belief in any religion ever presented to me.


That's, as an atheist, my prime objection. And it is enough for me to not accept any religion as accurate. Regardless of all the rest. And with "the rest", I'm not talking about your 11 points, none of which I have ever used as "arguments against the bible".

Invalidusername said:

You'd be surprised how little people know about God and the Bible.

Click to expand...

Are you aware that research has shown that the average atheist actually knows more about the bible then the average christian?

DogmaHunter said:

Are you aware that research has shown that the average atheist actually knows more about the bible then the average christian?

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And that's as it should be. That way, we Christians have to stay on our toes.

Invalidusername said:

You'd be surprised how little people know about God and the Bible. They are content with writing it off and not learning the truth. The bible says they hide in the darkness because their deeds are evil.

Click to expand...

I noticed that you rated my post as "funny". I'll go ahead and assume that by that, you mean that you don't believe that.

U.S. Religious Knowledge Survey | Pew Research Center
Survey: Atheists, Agnostics Know More About Religion Than Religious
https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/...tsagnostics-more-knowledgeable-about-religion

So, I'm guessing "ouch".

DogmaHunter said:

I noticed that you rated my post as "funny". I'll go ahead and assume that by that, you mean that you don't believe that.

U.S. Religious Knowledge Survey | Pew Research Center
Survey: Atheists, Agnostics Know More About Religion Than Religious
https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/...tsagnostics-more-knowledgeable-about-religion

So, I'm guessing "ouch".

Click to expand...

You're conflating "religious belief" now with "Christian belief." They're not the same.

And, by the way, that first Pew Survey actually says,

Well, now. How about that!

JohnB445 said:

I have a strong faith in Christ. I decided to look at the objections Muslims, pagans, and atheists have against Christianity. I did not want to do this at the beginning of my journey because I could of been easily swayed or deceived probably. The parable of the sower.

Here are the false claims and objections I found.

1. Bible is corrupted
2. Jesus said he was never God.
3. Christians believe in 3 Gods
4. failed prophecies
5. Christianity is pagan, and Judaism.
6. Hitler, Crusades,KKK, and British invasion of India, Political Imperialism was all because of Christianity.
7. Jesus was (God forbid blasphemy) a sinner, and was married.
8. The Holy Spirit (God forbid blasphemy) is Muhammad or Angel Gabriel
9. Reincarnation got taken out of the Bible.
10. The Bible is occult.
11. Muhammad is in the Bible.

I was knowledgeable enough to know all these claims are false and are very weak accusations. Especially the accusations Muslims make. After fact checking all of these I now don't see a point in listening to arguments from non-Christians since all they seem to spew is ignorance and false information. In turn when a Christian sees these accusations in the end it will just strengthen their own faith because they will find out that these accusations from non-Christians are all lies with no backing.

The only effect they may have is turning away seekers possibly. Satan is really trying hard these days to make Christianity look bad.

Click to expand...

Godspeed. I wish you well on your journey.

DogmaHunter said:

Are you aware that research has shown that the average atheist actually knows more about the bible then the average christian?

Click to expand...

I've seen those surveys. It's like bragging about a slightly better failing grade.

Invalidusername said:

You'd be surprised how little people know about God and the Bible. They are content with writing it off and not learning the truth. The bible says they hide in the darkness because their deeds are evil.

Click to expand...

Evil is a word that many Christians bandy about to describe non-believers.

Invalidusername said:

You'd be surprised how little people know about God and the Bible. They are content with writing it off and not learning the truth. The bible says they hide in the darkness because their deeds are evil.

Click to expand...

Evil is a word that Christians often bandy about to describe non-believers. I have read the bible but I certainly would not describe myself as a biblical scholar. It is an interesting book that for the most part is full of improbable tales, the product of the minds of men living in a superstitious age. I don't see what truth I am expected to get from this book.
Getting back to the word evil. Evil is a very strong word that conjures up all kinds of unimaginable horrors. As I don't hold the bible up as a beacon of light and truth I assume I am one of those people the bible considers to be living in darkness and committing evil deeds.
As you believe what the bible says, I would be interested to know just exactly what kind of evil deeds you think I might be committing.

JohnB445 said:

I have a strong faith in Christ. I decided to look at the objections Muslims, pagans, and atheists have against Christianity. I did not want to do this at the beginning of my journey because I could of been easily swayed or deceived probably. The parable of the sower.

Here are the false claims and objections I found.

1. Bible is corrupted
2. Jesus said he was never God.
3. Christians believe in 3 Gods
4. failed prophecies
5. Christianity is pagan, and Judaism.
6. Hitler, Crusades,KKK, and British invasion of India, Political Imperialism was all because of Christianity.
7. Jesus was (God forbid blasphemy) a sinner, and was married.
8. The Holy Spirit (God forbid blasphemy) is Muhammad or Angel Gabriel
9. Reincarnation got taken out of the Bible.
10. The Bible is occult.
11. Muhammad is in the Bible.

I was knowledgeable enough to know all these claims are false and are very weak accusations. Especially the accusations Muslims make. After fact checking all of these I now don't see a point in listening to arguments from non-Christians since all they seem to spew is ignorance and false information. In turn when a Christian sees these accusations in the end it will just strengthen their own faith because they will find out that these accusations from non-Christians are all lies with no backing.

The only effect they may have is turning away seekers possibly. Satan is really trying hard these days to make Christianity look bad.

Click to expand...

Hi John, nice to meet you. Seems you've been thrown to the wolves here, eh? Well, let's look at these points.

1. Bible is corrupted

How is this not true? For example, who was the last king of Judah? Was it Zedekiah, son of Josiah, or was it Zedekiah, son of Jehoiakim? (The latter is the nephew of the former.) Normally this isn't a problem, as ambiguity is not contradictory. But there is a contradiction here in either case, although it requires a bit of attention to detail. The explanation is a bit tedious so I won't bother unless you're interested.

2. Jesus said he was never God.

Seems to be a Mormon thing to say. I'm atheist so I won't bother addressing this.

3. Christians believe in 3 Gods

A Muslim thing to say.

4. failed prophecies

I would say the problem is more about Old Testament statements being taken out of context and mistakenly (or dishonestly) being applied to Jesus, such as the "virgin" birth from Isaiah 7.

5. Christianity is pagan, and Judaism.

Christianity spawned from Judaism and it commandeered pagan practices and holidays in a form of religious genocide... or cannibalism. But that doesn't mean Christianity is pagan any more than eating bacon would make you become a pig.

6. Hitler, Crusades,KKK, and British invasion of India, Political Imperialism was all because of Christianity.

The western world rejects communism not because the idea fails in theory, but because it fails in practice. So I don't care how great people say Christianity is, or if they point at the Crusades and say, "that's not Christianity." The reality is that it *is* Christianity, just like all the bad stuff *is* communism.

As far as Hitler goes, atheists don't say that Nazism was a result of Christianity. Rather, we are often told by Christians that Hitler was an atheist and we have to correct them and remind them that Hitler most certainly believed in a God. Let me make this absolutely clear: he adamantly disavowed evolution on the grounds that he could not accept that whites are directly related to blacks via a common ancestor. He was repulsed by this idea. He was literally too racist to be an atheist.

7. Jesus was (God forbid blasphemy) a sinner, and was married.

8. The Holy Spirit (God forbid blasphemy) is Muhammad or Angel Gabriel

Another couple Muslim things, I presume?

9. Reincarnation got taken out of the Bible.

I don't understand what you're trying to say here. The opposite is true. The Old Testament contained nothing of the sort, and then reincarnation was inserted into the Bible via the New Testament. Paul said on multiple occasions that you will be given a new body. That's reincarnation.

re·in·car·na·tion
ˌrēənkärˈnāSH(ə)n/
noun

1. the rebirth of a soul in a new body.

10. The Bible is occult.

That depends on what you mean by occult. Is it an occult practice for people to assemble together and invite a supernatural entity to dwell inside their bodies? Because that's Christianity.

11. Muhammad is in the Bible.

OK, obviously another Muslim thing to say... and it is totally moronic. Who said this?

JohnB445 said:

I have a strong faith in Christ. I decided to look at the objections Muslims, pagans, and atheists have against Christianity. I did not want to do this at the beginning of my journey because I could of been easily swayed or deceived probably. The parable of the sower.

Here are the false claims and objections I found.

1. Bible is corrupted
2. Jesus said he was never God.
3. Christians believe in 3 Gods
4. failed prophecies
5. Christianity is pagan, and Judaism.
6. Hitler, Crusades,KKK, and British invasion of India, Political Imperialism was all because of Christianity.
7. Jesus was (God forbid blasphemy) a sinner, and was married.
8. The Holy Spirit (God forbid blasphemy) is Muhammad or Angel Gabriel
9. Reincarnation got taken out of the Bible.
10. The Bible is occult.
11. Muhammad is in the Bible.

I was knowledgeable enough to know all these claims are false and are very weak accusations. Especially the accusations Muslims make. After fact checking all of these I now don't see a point in listening to arguments from non-Christians since all they seem to spew is ignorance and false information. In turn when a Christian sees these accusations in the end it will just strengthen their own faith because they will find out that these accusations from non-Christians are all lies with no backing.

The only effect they may have is turning away seekers possibly. Satan is really trying hard these days to make Christianity look bad.

Click to expand...

I think you're missing the fundamental point about atheists. Put simply I don't believe in god, I don't believe god created the universe, let alone mankind.

That is the starting point for atheists, if one doesn't believe in god, then the bible is just a series of stories, angels and satan don't exist, Jesus, if he lived was just a very charismatic man, he didn't rise from the dead, and we are not going to be judged at the time of our death.

Now, what I do say is that there might be a force of nature so complex, so far beyond our ability to understand it that we label it god, but that is very far removed from the god of religions, including the god of Christianity.

Even if one day I thought, blimey there actually is a god, there are still a large number of hurdles to jump over, some of them huge before I could believe in any of the specific religions but sticking to objections to christian faith -

1. The god of the old Testament is arbitrarily cruel to the point of being a murderer - (the Flood, the 10th plague, Sodom and Gomorrah) - I could certainly fear such a god but couldn't worship it.
2. Bible stories are ludicrous in many places (creation in 7 days, the flood just to name 2)
3. Heaven and Hell exist in some other sphere - where?
4. Angels, demons, satan etc all exist without form,, sustenance, being traceable, can't be seen, felt or heard yet still exist?

I could go on but I'm sure you've heard it before.

For me god doesn't exist, therefore the whole religious paraphernalia surrounding any chosen religion is pointless.

JohnB445 said:

I have a strong faith in Christ. I decided to look at the objections Muslims, pagans, and atheists have against Christianity. I did not want to do this at the beginning of my journey because I could of been easily swayed or deceived probably. The parable of the sower.

Here are the false claims and objections I found.

1. Bible is corrupted
2. Jesus said he was never God.
3. Christians believe in 3 Gods
4. failed prophecies
5. Christianity is pagan, and Judaism.
6. Hitler, Crusades,KKK, and British invasion of India, Political Imperialism was all because of Christianity.
7. Jesus was (God forbid blasphemy) a sinner, and was married.
8. The Holy Spirit (God forbid blasphemy) is Muhammad or Angel Gabriel
9. Reincarnation got taken out of the Bible.
10. The Bible is occult.
11. Muhammad is in the Bible.

I was knowledgeable enough to know all these claims are false and are very weak accusations. Especially the accusations Muslims make. After fact checking all of these I now don't see a point in listening to arguments from non-Christians since all they seem to spew is ignorance and false information. In turn when a Christian sees these accusations in the end it will just strengthen their own faith because they will find out that these accusations from non-Christians are all lies with no backing.

The only effect they may have is turning away seekers possibly. Satan is really trying hard these days to make Christianity look bad.

Click to expand...

For a skeptic like me, it becomes quite simple. I start with Genesis 1:1. By the time I get to Exodus, I feel I have already had to rationalize many claims instead as either parables, teaching points only, not to be taken literal, or other; that by the time I get to the New Testament, I'm not sure which stories are supposed to be actually true, or other? Furthermore, the 'creation account' and 'flood story' alone are enough to cause much doubt to a book of claimed absolute truth.

So by the time I read the 4 Gospels, it's an almost futile proposition to take as such very seriously; even aside from the many shortcomings observed to such claims.

cvanwey said:

For a skeptic like me, it becomes quite simple. I start with Genesis 1:1. By the time I get to Exodus, I feel I have already had to rationalize many claims instead as either parables, teaching points only, not to be taken literal, or other; that by the time I get to the New Testament, I'm not sure which stories are supposed to be actually true, or other? Furthermore, the 'creation account' and 'flood story' alone are enough to cause much doubt to a book of claimed absolute truth.

So by the time I read the 4 Gospels, it's an almost futile proposition to take as such very seriously; even aside from the many shortcomings observed to such claims.

Click to expand...

Talking snakes and donkeys ruined it for me.

JohnB445 said:

1. Bible is corrupted
2. Jesus said he was never God.
3. Christians believe in 3 Gods
4. failed prophecies

Click to expand...

1. There's evidence that the scribes corrupted some text with misleading vowel pointings.

How do ye say, We are wise, and the law of YHWH is with us? Lo, certainly in vain made he it; the pen of the scribes is in vain.
Jeremiah 8:8

For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven.
Matthew 5:20

2. "God" is ambiguous. Allah is a singular title, Elohim (translated as God) is plural.

3. Trinitarian doctrine contradicts Genesis 1:26-27 (no person of the trinity with a physical female form).