Should we sell our possessions to gain eternal life?

Wordkeeper

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Wordkeeper believes if you receive the Holy Spirit as the disciples did at Pentecost and speak in tongues , you may still not be in a saved state. A novel idea, even on the internet I have found.
This is an intersting topic, maybe even deserving a thread of its own.

Please form a theory based on how God uses lying and non lying prophets, like Balaam, Caiaphas, the un named prophet who was deceived by another prophet in 1 Kings 13, the test for prophets in Deuteronomy 13, and of course, the case of King Saul, who I had reminded you of previously. If you feel up to it, we will then start a thread on the topic.
 
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Strong in Him

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Please form a theory based on how God uses lying and non lying prophets, like Balaam, Caiaphas, the un named prophet who was deceived by another prophet in 1 Kings 13, the test for prophets in Deuteronomy 13, and of course, the case of King Saul, who I had reminded you of previously. If you feel up to it, we will then start a thread on the topic.

God used even Israel's enemies to punish them and teach them to rely on, and obey, him. That's not an opinion, it's Scripture.

Just because God uses someone to prophesy/help/teach someone else, it doesn't mean that the person he uses is saved, or even knows him.
If a Christian were to come along and say "God was using you to do that", "that was God who was teaching/healing through you", it might lead to the other person to accept that God loves them and they might become a believer.
But God doesn't wait for us to know, love, accept him or be "good enough" before he will speak to, or through, us or use us to help someone else.
 
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Wordkeeper

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The NEW Covenant was prophesied in Jeremiah 31:31-34, brought in by Christ and sealed with his blood.

The NEW Covenant says that we can be reconciled to God, not by the blood of animals which had to be repeated many times, but by the blood of Christ who died once and for all. He was the Lamb of God who gave his life for the sin of the world, John 1:29, and the Good Shepherd who lay down his life for the sheep, John 10:11. Without blood there is no forgiveness of sin, Hebrews 9:22, and Jesus shed his blood for the forgiveness of sins, Matthew 26:28.

This is the gift of God - eternal life for all who accept Christ, Romans 6:23, and every spiritual blessing in him, Ephesians 1:3.


But what is the need for Paul to say that God’s word had not failed because Abraham’s seeds are identified by faith? Apparently the seeds did become a blessing to the world. How?




The story of Ananais and Sapphira does not speak of, or even mention covenant, ot matters relating to property. They lied to God - simples.


The Bible never mentions the word Trinity, but it is still taught.


No; a crisis is a stressful situation involving conflict.

cri·sis

(krī′sĭs)

n. pl. cri·ses (-sēz)

1. A crucial or decisive point or situation, especially a difficult or unstable situation involving an impending change.

2. A sudden change in the course of a disease or fever, toward either improvement or deterioration.

3. An emotionally stressful event or traumatic change in a person's life.

4. A point in a story or drama when a conflict reaches its highest tension and must be resolved.


Conflicts are not harmful? Is English your first language?


Pharaoh suffered because he rejected Moses' plea to let the Israelite's go and worship God. He said that he didn't know their God, and would not release them.

Ultimately he rejected God - time after time he was told that god would cause x to happen if the Hebrew people were not released; time after time he refused, repented when the plague came, then changed his mind again when the danger was past. HE rejected God, and he brought harm upon himself and the nation.


‘kay.


Yes, they were led into the wilderness on their way to the Promised Land; that was the journey. After all that they had seen of the plagues in Egypt, they should have been able to trust in God for whatever they needed; instead, they grumbled and complained.


In other words they should have had a new mindset, a change of mind, meta noia-ed, repented, been born again.


The text doesn't say that.


Whenever you see the word “Christ” you should think of the Way, picking up crosses and being resurrected. This is what Christ did all the time, even during the eponymous act on Calvary. He said that if the acts He did had been done in Sidon or Tyre, those cities would have repented in ashes. Been born again. In other words “Christ” is metonymy. You should see a theme, a motif, every time you see the word, just as if you see “9/11”, you should see planes colliding into buildings.


1 Corinthians 10:1For I do not want you to be ignorant of the fact, brothers and sisters, that our ancestors were all under the cloud and that they all passed through the sea. 2They were all baptized into Moses in the cloud and in the sea. 3They all ate the same spiritual food 4and drank the same spiritual drink; for they drank from the spiritual rock that accompanied them, and that rock was Christ.



God rescued the nation from Egypt - as he prophesied through Jacob, Genesis 46:4, and Joseph, Genesis 50:24. He saved them from there, just as he had saved their lives from the famine by sending them there in the first place. Having rescued them, he led them to Mt Sinai where they would receive his law and covenant and instructions how to live as his people.


God created the calamity of Egypt by sending a dream to Joseph, which angered his family, which set off a chain of events that landed Israel in Egypt.


The journey through the wilderness could have taken only a short time; a few months, or maybe a couple of years. It took 40 years because, once again, the people didn't trust God. 10 of those sent out said that the Promised Land was full of enemies and danger; only 2 said that the Lord had promised it to them, they should trust him and that he would deliver and help them, Deuteronomy 1:20-36.


In each of these situations - with Pharaoh, and then with the nation - if they suffered "harm", it was because they rejected God or didn't trust in him. It was not God who caused that harm; people suffered because of their own attitudes or actions.


Bottomline, God created Israel’s problems. One of the results of having a good attitude in a conflict led to victory, and in turn, the salvation of Rahab. The calamities and the rescues were necessary, to get people to leave Egypt/mammon/the world. Next time someone asks you to go out and evangelise, ask him to arrange a laying of hands, or something for, you. I was given a handful of pamphlets and told to go to Croydon, on market day. It was like taking a knife to a gunfight....


Exodus 4:1Then Moses said, “What if they will not believe me or listen to what I say? For they may say, ‘The LORD has not appeared to you.’” 2The LORD said to him, “What is that in your hand?” And he said, “A staff.” 3Then He said, “Throw it on the ground.” So he threw it on the ground, and it became a serpent; and Moses fled from it. 4But the LORD said to Moses, “Stretch out your hand and grasp it by its tail”—so he stretched out his hand and caught it, and it became a staff in his hand— 5“that they may believe that the LORD, the God of their fathers, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob, has appeared to you.”


Exodus 8:19“This is the finger of God,” the magicians said toPharaoh. But Pharaoh’s heart was hardened, and he would not listen to them, just as the LORDhad said.


Luke 11:20But if I drive out demons by the finger of God, then the kingdom of God has come upon you.
 
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Wordkeeper

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God used even Israel's enemies to punish them and teach them to rely on, and obey, him. That's not an opinion, it's Scripture.

Just because God uses someone to prophesy/help/teach someone else, it doesn't mean that the person he uses is saved, or even knows him.
If a Christian were to come along and say "God was using you to do that", "that was God who was teaching/healing through you", it might lead to the other person to accept that God loves them and they might become a believer.
But God doesn't wait for us to know, love, accept him or be "good enough" before he will speak to, or through, us or use us to help someone else.
Yaa...aas . Please tell Karola that,
 
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Karola

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This is an intersting topic, maybe even deserving a thread of its own.

Please form a theory based on how God uses lying and non lying prophets, like Balaam, Caiaphas, the un named prophet who was deceived by another prophet in 1 Kings 13, the test for prophets in Deuteronomy 13, and of course, the case of King Saul, who I had reminded you of previously. If you feel up to it, we will then start a thread on the topic.


In another thread you wrote, and I quote:


‘’You claimed the Holy Spirit cannot come upon wicked people. I proved you wrong. I rest my case.''

This is what I had written:

‘’
In your view, if anyone has the indwelling of the Holy Spirit and speaks in tongues, does this prove they are in a saved state?
Or, can the unsaved receive the Holy Spirit as the disciples did at Pentecost and speak in tongues?’’


Now if you can copy a post of mine from the other thread, where I wrote what you claim I wrote, then please copy it. If not, you should apologise for bearing false witness.

It was proved to you in the other thread, what happened at Pentecost had never previously been seen, the experience was new, and therefore, your OT/OC examples were immaterial concerning the question asked
 
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Wordkeeper

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In another thread you wrote, and I quote:


‘’You claimed the Holy Spirit cannot come upon wicked people. I proved you wrong. I rest my case.''

This is what I had written:

‘’
In your view, if anyone has the indwelling of the Holy Spirit and speaks in tongues, does this prove they are in a saved state?
Or, can the unsaved receive the Holy Spirit as the disciples did at Pentecost and speak in tongues?’’


Now if you can copy a post of mine from the other thread, where I wrote what you claim I wrote, then please copy it. If not, you should apologise for bearing false witness.

It was proved to you in the other thread, what happened at Pentecost had never previously been seen, the experience was new, and therefore, your OT/OC examples were immaterial concerning the question asked
Sorry, I don't understand your post.
 
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Karola

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Sorry, I don't understand your post.
Lets make it simple for you.
In another thread you wrote, and I quote:


‘’You claimed the Holy Spirit cannot come upon wicked people. I proved you wrong. I rest my case.''

Please copy a post of mine from the other thread where I stated that, bearing in mind, I was speaking in the discussion of people who had received the Holy Spirit as the disciples did at Pentecost and spoke in tongues.
 
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setst777

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How about a television?
Wouldn't it be wonderful, if people only used those items for the purpose of radiating God's love and the Gospel. I wonder how many do
I don't watch TV myself, although on my computer, I review the local, national and international news. Once in a while I do watch a good movie to unwind, and to view my emails. Most of my computer time is Christian studies. Healthy moral recreation is not a sin, as long as you do not live for it. For instance, my purpose for living is to help others, but that does not exclude my need to take care of myself so that my mind and body are adequate to fulfill my service in the best way possible.
 
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Karola

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I don't watch TV myself, although on my computer, I review the local, national and international news. Once in a while I do watch a good movie to unwind, and to view my emails. Most of my computer time is Christian studies. Healthy moral recreation is not a sin, as long as you do not live for it. For instance, my purpose for living is to help others, but that does not exclude my need to take care of myself so that my mind and body are adequate to fulfill my service in the best way possible.
I used to live in a Christian community, they did not have televisions there, or newspapers, I guess it comes down to your own personal conviction
 
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The Bible never mentions the word Trinity, but it is still taught.

The Bible is clear that the Father, the Son and his Spirit are 3 separate persons; all divine and yet there is ONE God, not 3.
The word trinity means tri-unity - 3 in 1 and 1 in 3. The word is not used, but the concept is certainly Scriptural.

This is completely different to taking a passage and reading another meaning into it. Ananais and Sapphira are not about covenant. They sold a field, they gave money to the Apostles and lied that the money they gave was all they had received. They both died because they had lied against God.
Where does it say anywhere in Scripture that that incident was about the covenant?

Conflicts are not harmful?

Violent conflicts may be harmful.
But have you never heard of a conflict of interests - like if politicians are on a panel to oppose something, while being paid by another company to promote it?
Or a conflict in personalities - where two people may rub each other up the wrong way?
In cookery programmes, they sometimes talk about a dish having conflicting flavours - two strong flavours competing against one another and clashing.
A person can send out conflicting messages - they may say one thing, but their body language and behaviour may say something else.

Read some of those definitions, they talk about situations involving impending change, the sudden worsening of an illness, and so on.

Is English your first language?

Don't be so rude.

In other words they should have had a new mindset, a change of mind, meta noia-ed, repented, been born again.

They didn't have the concept, or teaching, in the OT about being born again.
They should have learnt from the past, remembered what God had done for them already and trusted him; certainly.

Whenever you see the word “Christ” you should think of the Way, picking up crosses and being resurrected.

Why?
Jesus who was the Christ - God's chosen one - did far more than that. He taught, healed, performed miracles, drove demons out of people, was kind to the poor and those in need while rebuking the religious leaders and those who were judgemental and imposed burdens on others. He taught us to call God Abba, taught us to pray and about the role of the Holy Spirit. He also taught about the destruction of the temple, said that he would return one day and spoke of judgement at the end of the world.

You should see a theme, a motif, every time you see the word, just as if you see “9/11”, you should see planes colliding into buildings.

That proves my point exactly - context.
As I am British, the date 9/11 is the 9th of November - that is how we write our dates over here.
I would not think of planes crashing into buildings unless I was reading an article about what happened on that date, or the sentence said something like "we all know that 9/11 was a catastrophe", or "9/11 was handled badly", or something similar.

In the same way you cannot say that the word "Christ" is ALWAYS about picking up your cross - it depends on the context of the passage.


God created the calamity of Egypt by sending a dream to Joseph, which angered his family, which set off a chain of events that landed Israel in Egypt.

No.
God told Joseph in a dream that he was going to be someone important.
Joseph was in Egypt because his wicked brothers sold him into slavery; once he was in Egypt, he was falsely accused of rape and thrown into prison. God rescued Joseph from prison, after 2 years, by giving him the interpretation of various dreams - the butler, the baker and then Pharaoh. Pharaoh was so pleased to have had his dreams interpreted that he made Joseph the equivalent of Prime Minister, or Governor. God then told Joseph to store food because there would soon be a famine. There was, and Joseph's family went to Egypt to try to buy food. Once there, they were obviously reunited with Joseph, they settled down, married and had families and it was THEN that they became numerous and a large nation.

Bottomline, God created Israel’s problems.

So you believe that God who is perfect, Matthew 5:48, light, 1 John 1:5 and love 1 John 4:8, is capable of creating evil, harmful problems and conflicting situations?

Thank God I don't believe in a God like that.

One of the results of having a good attitude in a conflict led to victory, and in turn, the salvation of Rahab. The calamities and the rescues were necessary, to get people to leave Egypt/mammon/the world.

If Joseph's family hadn't gone to Egypt, they would have died in the famine, with only Joseph left.
If Pharaoh hadn't been so grateful to Joseph he wouldn't have welcomed his family and they wouldn't have settled in Egypt.
If successive Pharaoh's had heard the story of Joseph, they may not have turned on the Hebrew people and chosen to use them as slaves; a cheap workforce.
If Pharaoh had been willing to listen to Moses, and God, he would not have suffered so many plagues.

You're making it sound as though God said, "I'm going to send people to Egypt to be badly treated as slaves, just so that I can rescue them again." That he created problems, conflicts and suffering because he needed to be able to solve them.

God is light with NO darkness in him at all, he is love and he is perfect.
 
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Aldebaran

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Those who object to my view are mostly free gracers.

From Ephesians 2
8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.
 
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Wordkeeper

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Lets make it simple for you.
In another thread you wrote, and I quote:


‘’You claimed the Holy Spirit cannot come upon wicked people. I proved you wrong. I rest my case.''

Please copy a post of mine from the other thread where I stated that, bearing in mind, I was speaking in the discussion of people who had received the Holy Spirit as the disciples did at Pentecost and spoke in tongues.
Sorry, I still don't know what you are saying.
 
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This is completely different to taking a passage and reading another meaning into it. Ananais and Sapphira are not about covenant. They sold a field, they gave money to the Apostles and lied that the money they gave was all they had received. They both died because they had lied against God.
Where does it say anywhere in Scripture that that incident was about the covenant?

Would you blindly sign a contract giving you great benefits if there was a cost? I don't think so. You would do due diligence, check the terms and conditions before signing. Most people have been fed a Gospel of no conditions, ignoring the passages that teach about costs, ignoring the fact that many people rejected the offer.

The cost is that the signee must stop serving the interests of self for gains that perish and start serving the interests of God for gains that lasts. Ananias and Sapphira knew the cost, they thought they could pay the cost when God's voice called for it, unlike those who disbelieved, of whom it was said God swore they would never enter His Rest.

Acts of the Apostles 5:13But none of the rest dared to associate with them; however, the people held them in high esteem.

Violent conflicts may be harmful.
But have you never heard of a conflict of interests - like if politicians are on a panel to oppose something, while being paid by another company to promote it?
Or a conflict in personalities - where two people may rub each other up the wrong way?
In cookery programmes, they sometimes talk about a dish having conflicting flavours - two strong flavours competing against one another and clashing.
A person can send out conflicting messages - they may say one thing, but their body language and behaviour may say something else.

Read some of those definitions, they talk about situations involving impending change, the sudden worsening of an illness, and so on.

You are making a distinction where none exists. Crisis/conflicts harm. “sudden worsening of illness”=crisis.

Don't be so rude.

Don't be so thick. Do you think Her Majesty would accept it if you tell her that the words “crisis/conflict” in her language does not have the implication of the parties involved being in harm’s way?

They didn't have the concept, or teaching, in the OT about being born again.
They should have learnt from the past, remembered what God had done for them already and trusted him; certainly.

That's the definition of being born again.

Numbers 14:22“Surely all the men who have seen My glory and My signs which I performed in Egypt and in the wilderness, yet have put Me to the test these ten times and have not listened to My voice, 23shall by no means see the land which I swore to their fathers, nor shall any of those who spurned Me see it. 24“But My servant Caleb, because he has had a different spirit and has followed Me fully, I will bring into the land which he entered, and his descendants shall take possession of it.

Why?
Jesus who was the Christ - God's chosen one - did far more than that. He taught, healed, performed miracles, drove demons out of people, was kind to the poor and those in need while rebuking the religious leaders and those who were judgemental and imposed burdens on others. He taught us to call God Abba, taught us to pray and about the role of the Holy Spirit. He also taught about the destruction of the temple, said that he would return one day and spoke of judgement at the end of the world.

Jesus was angry that the Jews thought He had come to give them physical food, heal physical sicknesses, when they followed Him after seeing Him multiply loaves of bread. He told them men didn't live by bread alone, but by every Word/Christ/resurrection that came out of the mouth of God. He advised them to eat His flesh, drink His blood (remember God's great works) and be like Him, believe, trust only in God, and enter the Kingdom.

John 6:26Jesus answered them and said, “Truly, truly, I say to you, you seek Me, not because you saw signs, but because you ate of the loaves and were filled. 27“Do not work for the food which perishes, but for the food which endures to eternal life, which the Son of Man will give to you, for on Him the Father, God, has set His seal.” 28Therefore they said to Him, “What shall we do, so that we may work the works of God?” 29Jesus answered and said to them, “This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent.” 30So they said to Him, “What then do You do for a sign, so that we may see, and believe You? What work do You perform? 31“Our fathers ate the manna in the wilderness; as it is written, ‘HE GAVE THEM BREAD OUT OF HEAVEN TO EAT.’” 32Jesus then said to them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, it is not Moses who has given you the bread out of heaven, but it is My Father who gives you the true bread out of heaven. 33“For the bread of God is that which comes down out of heaven, and gives life to the world.” 34Then they said to Him, “Lord, always give us this bread.”

35Jesus said to them, “I am the bread of life; he who comes to Me will not hunger, and he who believes in Me will never thirst. 36“But I said to you that you have seen Me, and yet do not believe.

That proves my point exactly - context.
As I am British, the date 9/11 is the 9th of November - that is how we write our dates over here.
I would not think of planes crashing into buildings unless I was reading an article about what happened on that date, or the sentence said something like "we all know that 9/11 was a catastrophe", or "9/11 was handled badly", or something similar.

In the same way you cannot say that the word "Christ" is ALWAYS about picking up your cross - it depends on the context of the passage.

Sure, you want fish and chips, you won´t eat the local food, you only speak English, you won´t learn other languages. You Brits think the world revolves around you. That's not how normal people think. Everyone else connects 9/11 links to the terrible incidents of 11th September, unless they lived under a rock.

No.
God told Joseph in a dream that he was going to be someone important.
Joseph was in Egypt because his wicked brothers sold him into slavery; once he was in Egypt, he was falsely accused of rape and thrown into prison. God rescued Joseph from prison, after 2 years, by giving him the interpretation of various dreams - the butler, the baker and then Pharaoh. Pharaoh was so pleased to have had his dreams interpreted that he made Joseph the equivalent of Prime Minister, or Governor. God then told Joseph to store food because there would soon be a famine. There was, and Joseph's family went to Egypt to try to buy food. Once there, they were obviously reunited with Joseph, they settled down, married and had families and it was THEN that they became numerous and a large nation.

Well, the Bible says God placed different people in different situations in different parts of the world, hoping they would grope around for Him. People don't think about God until they are in trouble. Israel was already in trouble in Isaac’s nomadic camp in the desert, serving the interests of self for gains that perish. God put them in Egypt, an extreme version of serving interests of self, just to highlight her problem.

Acts of the Apostles 17:26From one man he made all the nations, that they should inhabit the whole earth; and he marked out their appointed times in history and the boundaries of their lands. 27God did this so that they would seek him and perhaps reach out for him and find him, though he is not far from any one of us.

So you believe that God who is perfect, Matthew 5:48, light, 1 John 1:5 and love 1 John 4:8, is capable of creating evil, harmful problems and conflicting situations?
Thank God I don't believe in a God like that.

God gave the dream. God caused the famine.

Isaiah 45:7I form the light and create darkness,

I bring prosperity and create disaster;

I, the Lord, do all these things.


If Joseph's family hadn't gone to Egypt, they would have died in the famine, with only Joseph left.
If Pharaoh hadn't been so grateful to Joseph he wouldn't have welcomed his family and they wouldn't have settled in Egypt.

If successive Pharaoh's had heard the story of Joseph, they may not have turned on the Hebrew people and chosen to use them as slaves; a cheap workforce.
If Pharaoh had been willing to listen to Moses, and God, he would not have suffered so many plagues.

You're making it sound as though God said, "I'm going to send people to Egypt to be badly treated as slaves, just so that I can rescue them again." That he created problems, conflicts and suffering because he needed to be able to solve them.
God is light with NO darkness in him at all, he is love and he is perfect.

God made a man blind from birth, so that He could rescue Him, so that bread could be fed to the children.

John 9:3Jesus answered, “It was neither that this man sinned, nor his parents; but it was so that the works of God might be displayed in him.[/QUOTE]
 
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Strong in Him

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Would you blindly sign a contract giving you great benefits if there was a cost? I don't think so. You would do due diligence, check the terms and conditions before signing. Most people have been fed a Gospel of no conditions, ignoring the passages that teach about costs, ignoring the fact that many people rejected the offer.

The cost is that the signee must stop serving the interests of self for gains that perish and start serving the interests of God for gains that lasts. Ananias and Sapphira knew the cost, they thought they could pay the cost when God's voice called for it, unlike those who disbelieved, of whom it was said God swore they would never enter His Rest.

Acts of the Apostles 5:13But none of the rest dared to associate with them; however, the people held them in high esteem.



You are making a distinction where none exists. Crisis/conflicts harm. “sudden worsening of illness”=crisis.



Don't be so thick. Do you think Her Majesty would accept it if you tell her that the words “crisis/conflict” in her language does not have the implication of the parties involved being in harm’s way?



That's the definition of being born again.

Numbers 14:22“Surely all the men who have seen My glory and My signs which I performed in Egypt and in the wilderness, yet have put Me to the test these ten times and have not listened to My voice, 23shall by no means see the land which I swore to their fathers, nor shall any of those who spurned Me see it. 24“But My servant Caleb, because he has had a different spirit and has followed Me fully, I will bring into the land which he entered, and his descendants shall take possession of it.



Jesus was angry that the Jews thought He had come to give them physical food, heal physical sicknesses, when they followed Him after seeing Him multiply loaves of bread. He told them men didn't live by bread alone, but by every Word/Christ/resurrection that came out of the mouth of God. He advised them to eat His flesh, drink His blood (remember God's great works) and be like Him, believe, trust only in God, and enter the Kingdom.

John 6:26Jesus answered them and said, “Truly, truly, I say to you, you seek Me, not because you saw signs, but because you ate of the loaves and were filled. 27“Do not work for the food which perishes, but for the food which endures to eternal life, which the Son of Man will give to you, for on Him the Father, God, has set His seal.” 28Therefore they said to Him, “What shall we do, so that we may work the works of God?” 29Jesus answered and said to them, “This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent.” 30So they said to Him, “What then do You do for a sign, so that we may see, and believe You? What work do You perform? 31“Our fathers ate the manna in the wilderness; as it is written, ‘HE GAVE THEM BREAD OUT OF HEAVEN TO EAT.’” 32Jesus then said to them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, it is not Moses who has given you the bread out of heaven, but it is My Father who gives you the true bread out of heaven. 33“For the bread of God is that which comes down out of heaven, and gives life to the world.” 34Then they said to Him, “Lord, always give us this bread.”

35Jesus said to them, “I am the bread of life; he who comes to Me will not hunger, and he who believes in Me will never thirst. 36“But I said to you that you have seen Me, and yet do not believe.



Sure, you want fish and chips, you won´t eat the local food, you only speak English, you won´t learn other languages. You Brits think the world revolves around you. That's not how normal people think. Everyone else connects 9/11 links to the terrible incidents of 11th September, unless they lived under a rock.



Well, the Bible says God placed different people in different situations in different parts of the world, hoping they would grope around for Him. People don't think about God until they are in trouble. Israel was already in trouble in Isaac’s nomadic camp in the desert, serving the interests of self for gains that perish. God put them in Egypt, an extreme version of serving interests of self, just to highlight her problem.

Acts of the Apostles 17:26From one man he made all the nations, that they should inhabit the whole earth; and he marked out their appointed times in history and the boundaries of their lands. 27God did this so that they would seek him and perhaps reach out for him and find him, though he is not far from any one of us.



God gave the dream. God caused the famine.

Isaiah 45:7I form the light and create darkness,

I bring prosperity and create disaster;

I, the Lord, do all these things.




God made a man blind from birth, so that He could rescue Him, so that bread could be fed to the children.

John 9:3Jesus answered, “It was neither that this man sinned, nor his parents; but it was so that the works of God might be displayed in him.

I don't think there's any point in continuing this conversation - which I'm not sure is connected to the OP anyway.
You're being unnecessarily rude and judgemental.

If you want to carry on believing in a god who makes problems and causes suffering just so that he can solve them and make things good - there's nothing I can say to stop you.
Notice I wrote "god" with a small "g" - that is because the God of Scripture is not like that. He is perfect, and every good and perfect gift comes from him, James 1:17. Suffering, conflicts and problems are not good or perfect and do not come from him.
The God I worship is full of grace, love, mercy and blesses abundantly. He is Almighty God and needs nothing from anyone - he is certainly not so insecure that he has to make problems and solve them, in order to look good.

Have a nice life.
 
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Karola

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I don't think there's any point in continuing this conversation - which I'm not sure is connected to the OP anyway.
You're being unnecessarily rude and judgemental.

If you want to carry on believing in a god who makes problems and causes suffering just so that he can solve them and make things good - there's nothing I can say to stop you.
Notice I wrote "god" with a small "g" - that is because the God of Scripture is not like that. He is perfect, and every good and perfect gift comes from him, James 1:17. Suffering, conflicts and problems are not good or perfect and do not come from him.
The God I worship is full of grace, love, mercy and blesses abundantly. He is Almighty God and needs nothing from anyone - he is certainly not so insecure that he has to make problems and solve them, in order to look good.

Have a nice life.
People who think they alone understand great mysteries of God, and come on the internet to teach others these great mysteries they think only they are blessed to know, do not know as much as they think they know, nor do they know as they ought to know(1Cor8:2)
 
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Wordkeeper

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I don't think there's any point in continuing this conversation - which I'm not sure is connected to the OP anyway.
You're being unnecessarily rude and judgemental.

If you want to carry on believing in a god who makes problems and causes suffering just so that he can solve them and make things good - there's nothing I can say to stop you.
Notice I wrote "god" with a small "g" - that is because the God of Scripture is not like that. He is perfect, and every good and perfect gift comes from him, James 1:17. Suffering, conflicts and problems are not good or perfect and do not come from him.
The God I worship is full of grace, love, mercy and blesses abundantly. He is Almighty God and needs nothing from anyone - he is certainly not so insecure that he has to make problems and solve them, in order to look good.

Have a nice life.
Your argument is with Scripture, not me.
 
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