Is the Earth flat or round???

The Barbarian · Oct 17, 2018

SPF said:
d taylor, can you perhaps explain to me why over 25 governments who aren't all allies have decided to go in together on this giant hoax about the earth? Can you explain why public companies such as Red Bull, Space-X, Virgin Galactic, and every other company that has ever launched a satellite, including all weather satellites have agreed to get in on this hoax?

What exactly is the point?

Because they are all in on it to get him. Important dude, um?

d taylor · Oct 17, 2018

SPF said:
d taylor, can you perhaps explain to me why over 25 governments who aren't all allies have decided to go in together on this giant hoax about the earth? Can you explain why public companies such as Red Bull, Space-X, Virgin Galactic, and every other company that has ever launched a satellite, including all weather satellites have agreed to get in on this hoax?

What exactly is the point?

Why would pagan institutions want to tell the truth about Gods creation. how would that elevate man above God. Which is what the sciences cosmology and evolution and other sciences has done.

Who (the average person just working a daily life that is not privileged to this inside info to this lie) really knows the reason. But it is so clear that a plan is in place. And with something that has been in the works of for at least 2000+ years, even before the birth of The Messiah. It has to be establish and brought forth from a spiritual battle (satanic).

How hard is it to fool a pagan person when Christian's who say they that they trust in God but a great number accept mans testimony (evolution, cosmos, etc.) about life over the Bible clear text.

The Barbarian · Oct 17, 2018

d taylor said:
Why would pagan institutions want to tell the truth about Gods creation.

If you think governments are "pagan institutions", we've found the problem.

how would that elevate man above God.

It is the purpose of YE creationism to elevate man above God, by revising Genesis to fit their own desires. YE creationists accept man's testimony (creationism, flat Earth) above the clear Bible text.

d taylor · Oct 17, 2018

The Barbarian said:
If you think governments are "pagan institutions", we've found the problem.

It is the purpose of YE creationism to elevate man above God, by revising Genesis to fit their own desires. YE creationists accept man's testimony (creationism, flat Earth) above the clear Bible text.

Care to elaborate, to the revising of Genesis it is a straight forward creation account. I mean a message can not get any simpler and to the point as In the beginning God created heaven and earth. Also a created raqia that separates two bodies of water one above the raqia and one below with the sun, moon and stars placed in the raqia to give light on the earth.

The Barbarian · Oct 17, 2018

d taylor said:
Care to elaborate, to the revising of Genesis it is a straight forward creation account.

Even ancient Christians knew it wasn't a literal history. That's a modern revision, man's addition to God's word.

As Augustine pointed out, mornings and evenings without a sun to have them, was sufficient to understand that it was not a literal history of six days.

d taylor · Oct 17, 2018

The Barbarian said:
Even ancient Christians knew it wasn't a literal history. That's a modern revision, man's addition to God's word.

As Augustine pointed out, mornings and evenings without a sun to have them, was sufficient to understand that it was not a literal history of six days.

Augustine brought a lot of pagan influence into his version of Christianity.

Do you believe that God forms/creates/fashions the spirit of man within him. Do you believe that is a literal act God does.

The Barbarian · Oct 18, 2018

d taylor said:
Augustine brought a lot of pagan influence into his version of Christianity.

Ironically, Augustine wrote his book specifically to refute the arguments of pagans (and there actually were a lot of pagans at the time; he wasn't just tossing out insults to Christians who happened to disagree with him). He specifically showed that the world wasn't eternal, and that creation was a fact.

But he also knew that foolish people who thought that the Bible told them everything there was to know, were harming the Church by making up new doctrines.

Often, a non-Christian knows something about the earth, the heavens, and the other parts of the world, about the motions and orbits of the stars and even their sizes and distances, … and this knowledge he holds with certainty from reason and experience. It is thus offensive and disgraceful for an unbeliever to hear a Christian talk nonsense about such things, claiming that what he is saying is based in Scripture. We should do all we can to avoid such an embarrassing situation, which people see as ignorance in the Christian and laugh to scorn.

The shame is not so much that an ignorant person is laughed at, but rather that people outside the faith believe that we hold such opinions, and thus our teachings are rejected as ignorant and unlearned. If they find a Christian mistaken in a subject that they know well and hear him maintaining his foolish opinions as based on our teachings, how are they going to believe these teachings in matters concerning the resurrection of the dead, the hope of eternal life, and the kingdom of heaven, when they think these teachings are filled with fallacies about facts which they have learnt from experience and reason.

Reckless and presumptuous expounders of Scripture bring about much harm when they are caught in their mischievous false opinions by those not bound by our sacred texts. And even more so when they then try to defend their rash and obviously untrue statements by quoting a shower of words from Scripture and even recite from memory passages which they think will support their case ‘without understanding either what they are saying or what they assert with such assurance.’ (1 Timothy 1:7)
St. Augustine, De Genisi ad litteram

This is the real damage YE creationism does to Christianity. You won't go to hell for being a creationist; God doesn't care if you approve of the way He created things. But if you promote YE creationism, you are setting an unnecessary obstacle in the way of people who would otherwise come to Him. And that is a grave matter, even if unintentional. Avoid it.

Do you believe that God forms/creates/fashions the spirit of man within him.

Jerimiah 1:5 Before I formed thee in the belly I knew thee; and before thou camest forth out of the womb I sanctified thee, and I ordained thee a prophet unto the nations.

Before we have a body, we exist. Does that answer your question? Each of us has a spirit given directly by God, by which we become a living soul. Do you understand the meaning of "spirit" and "soul", as it pertains to man?

If you did, you'd have your answer.

To the point; you seem to now realize that mornings and evenings in the absence of a sun are logical absurdities. The text itself tells us that it's not a literal account. As Augustine pointed out.

d taylor · Oct 18, 2018

The Barbarian said:
Ironically, Augustine wrote his book specifically to refute the arguments of pagans (and there actually were a lot of pagans at the time; he wasn't just tossing out insults to Christians who happened to disagree with him). He specifically showed that the world wasn't eternal, and that creation was a fact.

But he also knew that foolish people who thought that the Bible told them everything there was to know, were harming the Church by making up new doctrines.

Often, a non-Christian knows something about the earth, the heavens, and the other parts of the world, about the motions and orbits of the stars and even their sizes and distances, … and this knowledge he holds with certainty from reason and experience. It is thus offensive and disgraceful for an unbeliever to hear a Christian talk nonsense about such things, claiming that what he is saying is based in Scripture. We should do all we can to avoid such an embarrassing situation, which people see as ignorance in the Christian and laugh to scorn.

The shame is not so much that an ignorant person is laughed at, but rather that people outside the faith believe that we hold such opinions, and thus our teachings are rejected as ignorant and unlearned. If they find a Christian mistaken in a subject that they know well and hear him maintaining his foolish opinions as based on our teachings, how are they going to believe these teachings in matters concerning the resurrection of the dead, the hope of eternal life, and the kingdom of heaven, when they think these teachings are filled with fallacies about facts which they have learnt from experience and reason.

Reckless and presumptuous expounders of Scripture bring about much harm when they are caught in their mischievous false opinions by those not bound by our sacred texts. And even more so when they then try to defend their rash and obviously untrue statements by quoting a shower of words from Scripture and even recite from memory passages which they think will support their case ‘without understanding either what they are saying or what they assert with such assurance.’ (1 Timothy 1:7)
St. Augustine, De Genisi ad litteram

This is the real damage YE creationism does to Christianity. You won't go to hell for being a creationist; God doesn't care if you approve of the way He created things. But if you promote YE creationism, you are setting an unnecessary obstacle in the way of people who would otherwise come to Him. And that is a grave matter, even if unintentional. Avoid it.

Jerimiah 1:5 Before I formed thee in the belly I knew thee; and before thou camest forth out of the womb I sanctified thee, and I ordained thee a prophet unto the nations.

Before we have a body, we exist. Does that answer your question? Each of us has a spirit given directly by God, by which we become a living soul. Do you understand the meaning of "spirit" and "soul", as it pertains to man?

If you did, you'd have your answer.

To the point; you seem to now realize that mornings and evenings in the absence of a sun are logical absurdities. The text itself tells us that it's not a literal account. As Augustine pointed out.

The pagans have certainly done their job well and you sir are a testament of/to their success.

The Barbarian · Oct 18, 2018

d taylor said:
The pagans have certainly done their job well and you sir are a testament of/to their success.

If you were more inclined to follow Jesus, you would likely avoid disparaging the faith of other Christians.

Just think about it, um?

d taylor · Oct 18, 2018

The Barbarian said:
If you were more inclined to follow Jesus, you would likely avoid disparaging the faith of other Christians.

Just think about it, um?

I follow Jesus, it is not me who is doubting the accurate description of God creation. And as Paul advises to avoid foolish conversations and after one or two back and forth's is see this discussion is going no where.
God is looking for Caleb's and Joshua's who accept His word, not spies who bring about lies because of their doubts

SPF · Oct 18, 2018

d taylor said:
I follow Jesus, it is not me who is doubting the accurate description of God creation. And as Paul advises to avoid foolish conversations and after one or two back and forth's is see this discussion is going no where.
God is looking for Caleb's and Joshua's who accept His word, not spies who bring about lies because of their doubts

So basically anyone who disagrees with the theological beliefs you personally hold to is a spy? How are you so certain that you have the corner on theological truth? Sounds a bit.... arrogant...

The Barbarian · Oct 18, 2018

Barbarian suggests:
If you were more inclined to follow Jesus, you would likely avoid disparaging the faith of other Christians.

Just think about it, um?

d taylor said:
I follow Jesus, it is not me who is doubting the accurate description of God creation.

As you see, I'm accepting it as it is. But you've accepted man's revision of His word. Which of us is wrong, is not the issue here. If either of us implies that the other has accepted a pagan interpretation, that would not be Christlike behavior. As I said, think it over.

d taylor · Oct 18, 2018

SPF said:
So basically anyone who disagrees with the theological beliefs you personally hold to is a spy? How are you so certain that you have the corner on theological truth? Sounds a bit.... arrogant...

Concerning God's creation it is black and white the Bible is clear throughout the text. when you have Joshua 10:12-15, the sun returning 10 degrees in Isaiah on and on and how a person receives Eternal Life The Bible is clear and i do not comprise my belief and that the Bible is clear in these areas.

SPF · Oct 19, 2018

d taylor said:
Concerning God's creation it is black and white the Bible is clear throughout the text

Then why do we have Christians disagreeing dating back over a thousand years?

And with regards to the Joshua passage, Joshua recorded exactly what he saw. He recorded what he saw, it was not recorded how the miracle was accomplished. God works with people in the cultures they live in with the knowledge that they have. I fully believe that the sun looked as if it stood still in the sky just as it was recorded. But the passage doesn't therefore mean that the earth is flat or that the sun circles the earth. The passage does not speak at all to the how in which God accomplished the miracle.

I imagine that even today, with the knowledge we have about how the earth spins and circles the sun that if I was in the middle of a battle and I needed God to keep it daytime for me that I would cry out just as Joshua did. I would simply ask God to keep the sun where it was and to have it stop moving. I would trust God to sort out how He was going to do it, I would just ask for what I wanted to have happen.

So even though I have knowledge about the size and shape of the earth, and how the solar system and galaxy looks and operates, I would have said the same thing Joshua did.

The passage is not evidence for a flat earth.

We should not expect that God would have given the OT authors advanced astronomical knowledge about the world that exceeded where they were at techonologically. God works with cultures where they're at and with the knowledge they have to accomplish His will.

The earth may very well be flat, but I don't think Scripture can provide any evidence for or against the shape of the earth. That's not why Scripture was written, and it's not where we should look for the answers to that question.

Aldebaran · Oct 19, 2018

d taylor said:
I follow Jesus, it is not me who is doubting the accurate description of God creation. And as Paul advises to avoid foolish conversations and after one or two back and forth's is see this discussion is going no where.
God is looking for Caleb's and Joshua's who accept His word, not spies who bring about lies because of their doubts

There is a member on this site named Wordkeeper who talks much about how we're to be looking to have the "spirit of Caleb" too, but I think the spirit of Christ is superior. That's the one we're told to be filled with.

d taylor · Oct 19, 2018

SPF said:
Then why do we have Christians disagreeing dating back over a thousand years?

And with regards to the Joshua passage, Joshua recorded exactly what he saw. He recorded what he saw, it was not recorded how the miracle was accomplished. God works with people in the cultures they live in with the knowledge that they have. I fully believe that the sun looked as if it stood still in the sky just as it was recorded. But the passage doesn't therefore mean that the earth is flat or that the sun circles the earth. The passage does not speak at all to the how in which God accomplished the miracle.

I imagine that even today, with the knowledge we have about how the earth spins and circles the sun that if I was in the middle of a battle and I needed God to keep it daytime for me that I would cry out just as Joshua did. I would simply ask God to keep the sun where it was and to have it stop moving. I would trust God to sort out how He was going to do it, I would just ask for what I wanted to have happen.

So even though I have knowledge about the size and shape of the earth, and how the solar system and galaxy looks and operates, I would have said the same thing Joshua did.

The passage is not evidence for a flat earth.

We should not expect that God would have given the OT authors advanced astronomical knowledge about the world that exceeded where they were at techonologically. God works with cultures where they're at and with the knowledge they have to accomplish His will.

The earth may very well be flat, but I don't think Scripture can provide any evidence for or against the shape of the earth. That's not why Scripture was written, and it's not where we should look for the answers to that question.

I made the black and white comparison because, the creation of God, that is described in the Bible. Is in complete contrast with what pagan scientist say about the created creation. I did not say that meaning that every christian would see that difference, obviously they do not. Or if they do they are just keeping quite because they are not completely sure and do not want the world to see them as an idiot (that is the power of the science lie).
The Joshua passage does speak to how (you just do not believe it). Joshua commanded the sun and moon to stop moving And in 14 the verse states that God heeded the voice of a man. Either the Bible is The inspired Book of God and error-less or it is not. Either that account in Joshua is a 100% accurate account given by God of what happened or then what you are reading is just man's version of his battle without the God inspiration account. Then there is not God and this is just an interesting story on par with greek mythology
It is really (like receiving Eternal Life) that simple.
Either a person believes the accounts in the Bible with out having to make them agree with a modern pagan science community or they do not.

What is sad is the group that believes the creation account but turns right around and from the same pagan sciences accepts their cosmology over the Bibles.

Paul was given supper advance cosmology 1 Corinthians 15:41

MoneyGuy · Oct 19, 2018

I can’t believe we’re still having this debate. It’s round, get over it.

d taylor · Oct 19, 2018

MoneyGuy said:
I can’t believe we’re still having this debate. It’s round, get over it.

God gave us the Bible, water, the sun, moon and stars place in the raqia moving over the earth every day, but yet the christian daily believes the pagan scientist over God's gifts, go figure we really are truly a sin racked being.

d taylor · Oct 20, 2018

Aldebaran said:
There is a member on this site named Wordkeeper who talks much about how we're to be looking to have the "spirit of Caleb" too, but I think the spirit of Christ is superior. That's the one we're told to be filled with.

I was not saying be filled with caleb's spirit and if you got that from my post you miss read. I was saying that God is looking for people who believe His words as written in the Bible, people who will not compromise, to go along with a pagan science view.
But of course that is not fashionable this day and age. Science rules the roost in the pagan world but for the last years, they have the christian placing their faith in their (sciences) game also

Aldebaran · Oct 20, 2018

d taylor said:
I was not saying be filled with caleb's spirit and if you got that from my post you miss read. I was saying that God is looking for people who believe His words as written in the Bible, people who will not compromise, to go along with a pagan science view.
But of course that is not fashionable this day and age. Science rules the roost in the pagan world but for the last years, they have the christian placing their faith in their (sciences) game also

What if you had the means of getting up into earth orbit and see the spherical earth? Would you then believe that it's round, or would you still say it's flat?

Is the Earth flat or round???

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