Why do people find the book of James controversial?

JohnB445 said:

I did a careful study of this short book, it is very clear that faith will naturally produce good works, also to be steadfast and faithful not double-minded or in the mist of the world.

Good works are the mark of the disciple is what I learned from it. And to turn to God's grace instead of the worldly desires.

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Protestants don't like the book of James because it refutes their doctrine of sola fide.

The confusion is his statement, faith without works is dead, it's thought to contradict Paul's, 'by grace apart from works'. It doesn't because Oaul deals with the exact same thing in 1 Corinthians 11 and has the same attitude. Paul says some of you are sick, and some sleep (died). James asks, is this even saving faith. By their fruits you shall know them and by this all will know your my disciples, if you have love one for another.

JohnB445 said:

I did a careful study of this short book, it is very clear that faith will naturally produce good works, also to be steadfast and faithful not double-minded or in the mist of the world.

Good works are the mark of the disciple is what I learned from it. And to turn to God's grace instead of the worldly desires.

Click to expand...

Most that find it controversial simply don't understand what faith is. Now I realize some might be offended at even me saying that, so I need to explain.

Paul said that faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the Word of God. So we have to "hear" the word of God.

Paul also said that faith is the evidence of things not seen and James said that faith without works is dead.

When we put these 3 things together, we have to first hear from God. Then we act on what we hear. Hearing is not seen, it is unseen... thus we hear (unseen) and then act on what we hear (evidence of the unseen). Faith without works is dead because faith is hearing God and then doing what He tells us to do.

It's actually pretty simple... but in a culture where "works" are played down because apparently some think they can work toward salvation... James ends up not even read by some because they can't reconcile "faith without works is dead" because of their "no works during salvation" position.

But I think I just showed that faith and works go hand in hand.

JohnB445 said:

I did a careful study of this short book, it is very clear that faith will naturally produce good works, also to be steadfast and faithful not double-minded or in the mist of the world.

Good works are the mark of the disciple is what I learned from it. And to turn to God's grace instead of the worldly desires.

Click to expand...

It's controversial only because people who believe in "works righteousness" misconstrue James' words to mean that doing good works will save you or at least contribute to it happening.

I don't know anyone myself, Catholic or Protestant, who doesn't like the book, by the way.

James says; “You see that a person is justified by works and not by faith alone.” (James 2:24)

Paul says; “For we consider that a person is declared righteous by faith apart from the works of the law.” (Romans 3:28)

James speaks of genuine faith that works by love. Paul speaks of genuine Faith (that works by love) apart from the Ten Commandments which cannot save.

Hi Paul uses Abraham as an example and notes Abraham believed God and it was accounted to him for righteousness. This is faith that saved him then he proceeded to have many a good works. This is also true of Lot as he is in the hall of faith. He believed God and it was accounted to him for righteousness too but he has no good works mentioned but shows he was grieved by the sin all around him. Abraham had a rich life that was greatly used by God and Lot had little to show for it. James is talking about a faith without works is dead, not damned but really useless. We should have faith that produces works. Martin Luther had trouble sorting this out and wondered if James should be in the cannon of scripture so this is why it is still controversial today.

Ken Rank said:

Most that find it controversial simply don't understand what faith is.

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Or what "works for salvation" is, either.

JohnB445 said:

I did a careful study of this short book, it is very clear that faith will naturally produce good works, also to be steadfast and faithful not double-minded or in the mist of the world.

Good works are the mark of the disciple is what I learned from it. And to turn to God's grace instead of the worldly desires.

Click to expand...

As a protestant, I agree with you.

If you study Paul's letters and James adequately, you see that they are both saying the same ... that genuine saving FAITH ... will produce Godly WORKS.

Paul is a bit more pointed ... in that he specifies that WORKS do not SAVE, ... but are the FRUIT of a saving FAITH.

Ephesians 2

8 For by grace you have been saved through faith. And
this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God,

9 not a result of works, so that no one may boast.

10 For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand, that we should
walk in them.

Albion said:

I don't know anyone myself, Catholic or Protestant, who doesn't like the book, by the way.

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Martin Luther tried to get it removed from the canon.

It's largely opposed because some can't harmonize his teaching with Paul's, despite their complementation.

Dave-W said:

Or what "works for salvation" is, either.

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That's true too. Usually... or at least, more often than not, I hear the phrase thrown at Jews who understand works but wouldn't dare assume one can work their way into favor with the Most High.

TuxAme said:

It's largely opposed because some can't harmonize his teaching with Paul's, despite their complementation.

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Perhaps because they have been taught caricatures of BOTH teachings, rather than the actual teachings.

HTacianas said:

Protestants don't like the book of James because it refutes their doctrine of sola fide.

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Which it doesn't. All James states is that saving faith brings about good works. I remember reading a cool phrase somewhere: "Faith alone saves, but saving faith is never alone." Or something like that.
This goes hand in hand with what Paul says. Paul is more focused on the faith, whereas James puts emphasis on the consequence thereof.

Ken Rank said:

Most that find it controversial simply don't understand what faith is. Now I realize some might be offended at even me saying that, so I need to explain.

Paul said that faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the Word of God. So we have to "hear" the word of God.

Paul also said that faith is the evidence of things not seen and James said that faith without works is dead.

When we put these 3 things together, we have to first hear from God. Then we act on what we hear. Hearing is not seen, it is unseen... thus we hear (unseen) and then act on what we hear (evidence of the unseen). Faith without works is dead because faith is hearing God and then doing what He tells us to do.

It's actually pretty simple... but in a culture where "works" are played down because apparently some think they can work toward salvation... James ends up not even read by some because they can't reconcile "faith without works is dead" because of their "no works during salvation" position.

But I think I just showed that faith and works go hand in hand.

Click to expand...

Faith without works is dead is not the statement that's at issue. This is:

Jas 2:24 - You see then that a man is justified by works, and not by faith only.

James plainly states that our works are part of our salvation. That has been the teaching of Christianity since the beginning.

If you read line by line the letters of Paul, and list how many times he says we are justified by faith and not works, then list what he actually said, that being "works of the law" you will begin to see the mistake so many have made in reading Paul.

We are not justified by the works "of the law", that's why Christianity has never required its adherents to perform the works "of the law".

JohnB445 said:

I did a careful study of this short book, it is very clear that faith will naturally produce good works, also to be steadfast and faithful not double-minded or in the mist of the world.

Good works are the mark of the disciple is what I learned from it. And to turn to God's grace instead of the worldly desires.

Click to expand...

That is why, maybe. Goes contrary to the "law of love"/no works necessary paradigm in the churches.

Dave-W said:

Martin Luther tried to get it removed from the canon.

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I hear that a lot. What does "tried to get it removed" mean, specifically? Because he made his own translation of the Bible, was acknowledged as the leading Bible authority in Germany, and was the key figure in the Reformation...if he had wanted to remove it, he probably would have removed it, right?

HTacianas said:

Faith without works is dead is not the statement that's at issue. This is:

Jas 2:24 - You see then that a man is justified by works, and not by faith only.

James plainly states that our works are part of our salvation. That has been the teaching of Christianity since the beginning.

If you read line by line the letters of Paul, and list how many times he says we are justified by faith and not works, then list what he actually said, that being "works of the law" you will begin to see the mistake so many have made in reading Paul.

We are not justified by the works "of the law", that's why Christianity has never required its adherents to perform the works "of the law".

Click to expand...

Faith without works is dead being alone. It is the same as shema in Hebrew which means "hear and do." I don't have any issue reconciling this to any book in the bible.

I would suggest... especially when it comes to Paul... that we determine which WORKS he is talking about. Additions to God's law by Pharisees? Salvation is a gift given through mercy, nothing else. But the saved are expected to live by faith and faith includes works.