What saves a person?

Neostarwcc

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Obviously Jesus saves as he is the only name to call upon to be saved. But what constitutes salvation? What saves a person? Is it believing in the gospel? I.E. the death, burial, and resurrection of Jesus? If that's the case than Catholics and SDA's are saved. Is it believing in the Trinity? Ditto to Catholics and SDAs and other controversial groups. Is it trusting in the finished work of Jesus on the cross? If that's required for salvation than Catholics and SDAs are not saved and I believe they are so that can't be it. So what saves a person? Paul says in Romans 10:9 that if we declare Jesus as Lord and believe in our hearts that God raised Jesus from the dead than we will be saved. So it must be that every person who believes the gospel and calls upon the Lord for salvation will be saved right? Or am I missing something?
 

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Obviously Jesus saves as he is the only name to call upon to be saved. But what constitutes salvation? What saves a person? Is it believing in the gospel? I.E. the death, burial, and resurrection of Jesus? If that's the case than Catholics and SDA's are saved. Is it believing in the Trinity? Ditto to Catholics and SDAs and other controversial groups. Is it trusting in the finished work of Jesus on the cross? If that's required for salvation than Catholics and SDAs are not saved and I believe they are so that can't be it. So what saves a person? Paul says in Romans 10:9 that if we declare Jesus as Lord and believe in our hearts that God raised Jesus from the dead than we will be saved. So it must be that every person who believes the gospel and calls upon the Lord for salvation will be saved right? Or am I missing something?

What is on second. The question is Who saves not What saves. Your first sentence was the accurate and complete answer. Nothing more required.
 
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Lucian Hodoboc

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Why are Catholics a controversial group? They and the Orthodox constituted the original Church back in the time of the apostles. How did they become a controversial group?
 
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Neostarwcc

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Why are Catholics a controversial group? They and the Orthodox constituted the original Church back in the time of the apostles. How did they become a controversial group?

Some Christians call them and the SDAs not saved because they believe in keeping the seven sacrements on top of Baptism on top of works .. Etc. The SDAs are controversial because they keep the Sabbath and believe in soul sleep. Like I said in my OP I disagree.
 
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Jesus saves sinners through simple faith. What constitutes "saving faith"? It's hard to say exactly. Probably very little. Something like: "Jesus is Lord and I need him to save me from my sins." We should be very charitable with those who are ignorant and uneducated. It's a different story for those who understand doctrines like the Trinity, the Hypostatic Union, etc.. and then DENY these doctrines. Big difference between denying these doctrines and being too immature to understand them.
 
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Neostarwcc

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Jesus saves sinners through simple faith. What constitutes "saving faith"? It's hard to say exactly. Probably very little. Something like: "Jesus is Lord and I need him to save me from my sins." We should be very charitable with those who are ignorant and uneducated. It's a different story for those who understand doctrines like the Trinity, the Hypostatic Union, etc.. and then DENY these doctrines. Big difference between denying these doctrines and being too immature to understand them.

Agreed. I couldn't have said it better myself.
 
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TuxAme

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Is it trusting in the finished work of Jesus on the cross? If that's required for salvation than Catholics and SDAs are not saved and I believe they are so that can't be it.
I can only speak for Catholics since I am one (I don't know what the SDA teach). We certainly believe that when Jesus said, "It is finished", that He meant it. In fact, we say that He meant it in a lot of places that many protestants wouldn't. What makes you think we don't believe so?
 
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HTacianas

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Obviously Jesus saves as he is the only name to call upon to be saved. But what constitutes salvation? What saves a person? Is it believing in the gospel? I.E. the death, burial, and resurrection of Jesus? If that's the case than Catholics and SDA's are saved. Is it believing in the Trinity? Ditto to Catholics and SDAs and other controversial groups. Is it trusting in the finished work of Jesus on the cross? If that's required for salvation than Catholics and SDAs are not saved and I believe they are so that can't be it. So what saves a person? Paul says in Romans 10:9 that if we declare Jesus as Lord and believe in our hearts that God raised Jesus from the dead than we will be saved. So it must be that every person who believes the gospel and calls upon the Lord for salvation will be saved right? Or am I missing something?

The grace of God saves a person, but we must cooperate with that grace to attain salvation.
 
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Neostarwcc

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I can only speak for Catholics since I am one (I don't know what the SDA teach). We certainly believe that when Jesus said, "It is finished", that He meant it. In fact, we say that He meant it in a lot of places that many protestants wouldn't. What makes you think we don't believe so?

Hi. I was referring to what some Protestant denominations teach. They teach that a person has to trust in the finished work of Jesus Christ in order to saved. Ergo all of our sins and works are covered by the sacrifice of Jesus on the cross. To my knowledge Catholics don't believe this or maybe you do. I'm not really educated on what Catholics believe. I know you guys believe that you have to keep the seven sacraments in order to be saved right?
 
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bcbsr

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Obviously Jesus saves as he is the only name to call upon to be saved. But what constitutes salvation? What saves a person? Is it believing in the gospel? I.E. the death, burial, and resurrection of Jesus? If that's the case than Catholics and SDA's are saved. Is it believing in the Trinity? Ditto to Catholics and SDAs and other controversial groups. Is it trusting in the finished work of Jesus on the cross? If that's required for salvation than Catholics and SDAs are not saved and I believe they are so that can't be it. So what saves a person? Paul says in Romans 10:9 that if we declare Jesus as Lord and believe in our hearts that God raised Jesus from the dead than we will be saved. So it must be that every person who believes the gospel and calls upon the Lord for salvation will be saved right? Or am I missing something?
You were close with the "trust" idea. Paul describes saving faith in Romans 4 comparing it to Abraham's faith in the promise of God and goes on to say, "Now when a man works, his wages are not credited to him as a gift, but as an obligation. However, to the man who does not work but trusts God who justifies the wicked, his faith is credited as righteousness. David says the same thing when he speaks of the blessedness of the man to whom God credits righteousness apart from works: "Blessed are they whose transgressions are forgiven, whose sins are covered. Blessed is the man whose sin the Lord will never count against him."

Saving faith involves not working for your salvation but rather trust God to provide it apart from issues of performance. But to many a sect God would say, "In repentance and rest is your salvation, in quietness and trust is your strength, but you would have none of it." Isa 30:15

In addition whenever the gospel is preached in the Bible it speaks of Jesus being Lord. It's not just referring to his deity anymore than "Lord" in "Lord God" is referring to God's deity, but rather the fact that we are instructed to comply with his commands. Jesus said, "Why do you call me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ and do not do what I say?" To call Jesus "Lord" is to pledge our allegiance to do what he says. That is a condition for salvation. "If you confess with your mouth, "Jesus is Lord," and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. For it is with your heart that you believe and are justified, and it is with your mouth that you confess and are saved." Rom 10:9,10

However as salvation is not conditioned upon works, the pledge of allegiance to Christ is not the same as doing what he says in every instances, but rather involves the intention to do so. Intention is not a work, it's an attitude. Faith is not a work, it's an attitude. Salvation is not conditioned upon religious ceremony such as water baptism, not good works, but rather attitudes.
 
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HTacianas

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Hi. I was referring to what some Protestant denominations teach. They teach that a person has to trust in the finished work of Jesus Christ in order to saved. Ergo all of our sins and works are covered by the sacrifice of Jesus on the cross. To my knowledge Catholics don't believe this or maybe you do. I'm not really educated on what Catholics believe. I know you guys believe that you have to keep the seven sacraments in order to be saved right?

If it helps, what you are thinking of as "catholic" is not catholic at all, but is Christian. There was a time there were no protestants, but there was no time there were no Christians.

The sacraments are practiced by Christians the world over, not just Catholics. It is the Christian faith that we enter into the salvation of God through faith and only by God's grace, and not as a reward for anything we've done. After entering into that salvation we must cooperate with grace through the sacramental life of the Church to ultimately attain salvation at the end.

That has been the teaching of Christianity since the beginning.
 
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Neostarwcc

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If it helps, what you are thinking of as "catholic" is not catholic at all, but is Christian. There was a time there were no protestants, but there was no time there were no Christians.

The sacraments are practiced by Christians the world over, not just Catholics. It is the Christian faith that we enter into the salvation of God through faith and only by God's grace, and not as a reward for anything we've done. After entering into that salvation we must cooperate with grace through the sacramental life of the Church to ultimately attain salvation at the end.

That has been the teaching of Christianity since the beginning.

But Paul never taught that we had to keep the seven sacraments. He taught faith is what saves a person. But he never really taught what faith was. Which is what separates protestants from Catholics doesn't it?
 
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Neostarwcc

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You were close with the "trust" idea. Paul describes saving faith in Romans 4 comparing it to Abraham's faith in the promise of God and goes on to say, "Now when a man works, his wages are not credited to him as a gift, but as an obligation. However, to the man who does not work but trusts God who justifies the wicked, his faith is credited as righteousness. David says the same thing when he speaks of the blessedness of the man to whom God credits righteousness apart from works: "Blessed are they whose transgressions are forgiven, whose sins are covered. Blessed is the man whose sin the Lord will never count against him."

Saving faith involves not working for your salvation but rather trust God to provide it apart from issues of performance. But to many a sect God would say, "In repentance and rest is your salvation, in quietness and trust is your strength, but you would have none of it." Isa 30:15

In addition whenever the gospel is preached in the Bible it speaks of Jesus being Lord. It's not just referring to his deity anymore than "Lord" in "Lord God" is referring to God's deity, but rather the fact that we are instructed to comply with his commands. Jesus said, "Why do you call me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ and do not do what I say?" To call Jesus "Lord" is to pledge our allegiance to do what he says. That is a condition for salvation. "If you confess with your mouth, "Jesus is Lord," and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. For it is with your heart that you believe and are justified, and it is with your mouth that you confess and are saved." Rom 10:9,10

However as salvation is not conditioned upon works, the pledge of allegiance to Christ is not the same as doing what he says in every instances, but rather involves the intention to do so. Intention is not a work, it's an attitude. Faith is not a work, it's an attitude. Salvation is not conditioned upon religious ceremony such as water baptism, not good works, but rather attitudes.

That makes a lot of sense. Thank you.
 
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HTacianas

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But Paul never taught that we had to keep the seven sacraments. He taught faith is what saves a person. But he never really taught what faith was. Which is what separates protestants from Catholics doesn't it?

Paul taught baptism, Eucharist, chrismation, the precursor to Holy Orders, etc. There are no sacraments that are not based on the teachings of the Apostles or Christ himself.
 
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Neostarwcc

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Paul taught baptism, Eucharist, chrismation, the precursor to Holy Orders, etc. There are no sacraments that are not based on the teachings of the Apostles or Christ himself.

Where? I must have been reading the NT wrong because in Romans he teaches that we are saved by faith. Including Ephesians 2:8-9.
 
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HTacianas

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Where? I must have been reading the NT wrong because in Romans he teaches that we are saved by faith. Including Ephesians 2:8-9.

Baptism is found throughout the writings of Paul. Chrismation, the receiving of the Holy Spirit, is also. In fact, Paul himself was baptized and chrismated at Acts 9.

On the Eucharist Paul says:

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1Co 11:26 - For as often as ye eat this bread, and drink this cup, ye do shew the Lord's death till he come.
 
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Obviously Jesus saves as he is the only name to call upon to be saved. But what constitutes salvation? What saves a person? ...

I think salvation is by the words Jesus declared, because:

It is the spirit who gives life. The flesh profits nothing. The words that I speak to you are spirit, and are life.
John 6:63

Through his words, forgiveness is declared and by his words there can happen change in persons heart so that he becomes righteous and can have eternal life.

It is the spirit who gives life. The flesh profits nothing. The words that I speak to you are spirit, and are life.
John 6:63


But as many as received him, to them he gave the right to become God's children, to those who believe in his name: who were born not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.

John 1:12-13

"For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel. After those days," says the Lord; "I will put my laws into their mind, I will also write them on their heart. I will be to them a God, And they will be to me a people. They will not teach every man his fellow citizen, Every man his brother, saying, 'Know the Lord,' For all will know me, From the least of them to the greatest of them. For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness. I will remember their sins and lawless deeds no more."
Hebrews 8:10-12 (Jeremiah 31:31-34)
 
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You were close with the "trust" idea. Paul describes saving faith in Romans 4 comparing it to Abraham's faith in the promise of God and goes on to say, "Now when a man works, his wages are not credited to him as a gift, but as an obligation. However, to the man who does not work but trusts God who justifies the wicked, his faith is credited as righteousness. David says the same thing when he speaks of the blessedness of the man to whom God credits righteousness apart from works: "Blessed are they whose transgressions are forgiven, whose sins are covered. Blessed is the man whose sin the Lord will never count against him."

Saving faith involves not working for your salvation but rather trust God to provide it apart from issues of performance. But to many a sect God would say, "In repentance and rest is your salvation, in quietness and trust is your strength, but you would have none of it." Isa 30:15

In addition whenever the gospel is preached in the Bible it speaks of Jesus being Lord. It's not just referring to his deity anymore than "Lord" in "Lord God" is referring to God's deity, but rather the fact that we are instructed to comply with his commands. Jesus said, "Why do you call me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ and do not do what I say?" To call Jesus "Lord" is to pledge our allegiance to do what he says. That is a condition for salvation. "If you confess with your mouth, "Jesus is Lord," and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. For it is with your heart that you believe and are justified, and it is with your mouth that you confess and are saved." Rom 10:9,10

However as salvation is not conditioned upon works, the pledge of allegiance to Christ is not the same as doing what he says in every instances, but rather involves the intention to do so. Intention is not a work, it's an attitude. Faith is not a work, it's an attitude. Salvation is not conditioned upon religious ceremony such as water baptism, not good works, but rather attitudes.

Good instruction here. Faith always involves repentance from the old life of sin, and then to follow our rightful Lord - Christ Jesus.

Acts 20 (WEB) Bolding mine 20 I didn’t shrink from declaring to you anything that was profitable, teaching you publicly and from house to house, 21 testifying both to Jews and to Greeks repentance toward God, and faith toward our Lord Jesus.

This is the New Life and is represented in Baptism

Romans 6:4 (WEB)
4 We were buried therefore with him through baptism to death, that just as Christ was raised from the dead through the glory of the Father, so we also might walk in newness of life...
20 For when you were servants of sin, you were free in regard to righteousness. 21 What fruit then did you have at that time in the things of which you are now ashamed? For the end of those things is death. 22 But now, being made free from sin, and having become servants of God, you have your fruit of sanctification, and the result of eternal life. 23 For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.

Romans 12 (WEB)
1 Therefore I urge you, brothers, by the mercies of God, to present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable to God, which is your spiritual service. 2 Don’t be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind, so that you may prove what is the good, well-pleasing, and perfect will of God.

It is by this repentant faith commitment to Christ that we receive the Spirit of Christ to empower our faith, resulting in the New Life

John 7 (NIV) 37 On the last and greatest day of the festival, Jesus stood and said in a loud voice, “Let anyone who is thirsty come to me and drink. 38 Whoever believes in me, as Scripture has said, rivers of living water will flow from within them.” 39 By this he meant the Spirit, whom those who believed in him were later to receive. Up to that time the Spirit had not been given, since Jesus had not yet been glorified.

John 4
13
Jesus answered, “Everyone who drinks this water will be thirsty again, 14 but whoever drinks the water I give them will never thirst. Indeed, the water I give them will become in them a spring of water welling up to eternal life.”

See also Romans 8

This is no different than what Christ commanded of those who believe in him, which is to deny ourselves and take up our cross and follow him.

Luke 9 (WEB)
23 He said to all, “If anyone desires to come after me, let him deny himself, take up his cross daily and follow me. 24 For whoever desires to save his life will lose it, but whoever will lose his life for my sake, the same will save it. 25 For what does it profit a man if he gains the whole world, and loses or forfeits his own self? 26 For whoever will be ashamed of me and of my words, of him will the Son of Man be ashamed, when he comes in his glory, and the glory of the Father, and of the holy angels.

Matthew 28 (WEB)
19 Go, and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, 20 teaching them to observe all things that I commanded you. Behold, I am with you always, even to the end of the age.”Amen.

How do we follow Him? Since we died to the old self, we now live a new life of Love just as Lord Jesus commands of us, and with himself as an example for us to follow.
 
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